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Wrong riot. Think back to the fall.


DA Morgan
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Quote:
Originally posted by Archer:
France is currently having riots
Current riots are about emploment law.

Easy.

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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
And do you think any of these greedy souls is happier than a native of Belize living quite nicely on $3600/year? Not a chance.

Once you have a roof over your head and food in your belly everything else is a matter of style. Our society has lost its way and people who have barely the ability to balance their checkbook are pontificating on the impact of energy strategies on the global economy. It is very sad! They can't think but they can parrot.
It is obvious, that the proponents of simplicity are nitwits, who think they are smarter than people and more vituous than people.

Brothers in the village idiot Marx they are.

We are being bankrupted by parasitic pseudoscience and its advocates and the rest of "liberal" parasitic crowd.

e laugh s

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You know, I bet all the great scientific advancements were once thought of pseudoscience, poppycock and such. Good thing people like Bell, Einstein and the others didn't listen to all their detractors.

Once again, how is spending billions on defense weapons we do not need less wasteful then investing in technology that is already proving useful to us and that will improve society much more then another bunkerbuster bomb?

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The growth of Texas is PROOF of that extrasense..

Chaoslillith.. my last 2 paragraphs are in reference to the cost of producing power, there is NO green power that is cost effective thus far, and it is going to be a long while before it ever will be.. Nuke and Hydro are the most dependable, and cheapest forms of power, my reply was also in response to your statement that, and I quote: California and Europe have some of the most stringent environmental laws yet their are still plenty of businesses there. Europe has done a wonderful job of incorporating renewable energy into their daily lives, unquote, (Germany uses a lot more than a few coal fired planets, if I remember correctly one of the largest coal strip mines is in Germany) California is two faced about its power, California is sure are buying vast amounts of its power from Utah (coal fired planets), California has nothing close to what its economy once was, and businesses are still leaving in record numbers, due to socialistic 'legal reform" and heavy taxs and control on business (most of us call it BS), Ca. bonds have a JUNK BOND rating, the same it true for Europe, there are no socialist economies in Europe that are doing well.. the very nature of socialism is not indicative to sound business principles, the proof of this is world wide..


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California's government screwed itself, which once again has nothing to do with renewable energy causing the problems. Did you even look at the links I posted?

There are cities in California which use solar for government buildings and have saved a great deal of money on their power bills. Ask any individual homeowner if the layout cost for their solar array was worth it and they will all say yes.

Europe has issue with employment yes as does the USA. However if you notice the Euro is standing quite strong against the dollar. I am aware of some of the issues in Germany being that there are not enough jobs for the level of high education many Germans obtain, as a result they end up moving elsewhere.

I suppose your solution would be to let companies run rampant with little or no regulation. We have tried that and ended up with Superfund sites, Enrons and Great Depressions. I am not saying that businesses need to be controlled out of existence but I fail to see how insisting that companies are responsible in their decisions regarding money, waste, fair treatment of employees and healthcare is wrong.

I do not approve of stupid lawsuits (ie suing a manufacturer of RVs because you set it on cruise control and walked away from the steering wheel), but I fail to see how some regulation is this horrible evil.

Would you like to go back to child labor and sweatshops?

The state of California is in a bad way, many businesses are prospering there though. The state made many bad choices but once again prompting businesses to be more environmentally aware was not one of them.

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No.. I was simple rebuffing what I understood you to say that California and Europe have plenty of businesses.. nothing more, I also tried to convey as to why they have lost, and continue to loss jobs, when jobs are lost, there are families that are hurt by this, its more than numbers, California has screwed itself almost to death.

The state buildings that use solar have not saved the taxpayers in Ca. one cent, if you look at the cost per watt, those solar cells on average will take 18 - 22 YEARS to pay for themselves.. yet the average life of solar panels is only 11 to 15 years on average..

California did this in a effort to "lead the charge" and try to get people to buy solar, it didnt work even with all the tax incentives provided by Ca. to do so, the people did the math.. it dont pay to go solar the cost per watt is too high.

The laws I was in refernce too are laws that apply to private businesses, requirements for hiring, stupid things like, if your sales team decides to become transvestites, you cant fire them for it when they make sales calls for your company dressed like a woman, its INSANITY at its worst, asking a woman for a date while off work, but a in company uniform can get the he works for company sued for Sexual Harassment, paid maternity for the FATHER! HUH? how many examples need to be given for the simple reasons California is no longer economically viable for businesses, these things plus a great many more are counter productive to business..

I was not attacking you, sorry if you felt like I was, I save that stuff for Morgan, I was only expressing that I felt to be a error about California's and Western Europes economic status.


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My brother chose to quit work to stay at home with his child. His wife is a teacher and it was more economically viable for them to save the $800.00 a month and avoid all the hospital trips that would have resulted in their baby getting sick at infant day care.

There are ways to deal with issues like the transvestites that you raised. Realistically though, the amount of transvestites that would take advantage of this are small.

Sexual harassment, that is a touchy issue because some men and women use it to whine about everything. In all laws, most people do not abuse them.

As far as solar, I will continue to disagree. The reason it is not more prevalent is that it is still not marketed to the general public. There are many more people that rent their houses then purchase them, perhaps too HOA's play a part. Yes it is an expensive layout, everyone I have ever spoken to who has owned solar says it is worth the money they paid for it.

The cities, well let's see
Solano : annual Savings of $800,000
http://www.powerlight.com/case-studies/state/solano.shtml

Naval Base Coronado, CA annual savings of $228,000 from year one
http://www.powerlight.com/case-studies/federal/naval_base_cor.shtml

Cal State Hayward : $200,000 a year in electrical savings

I could go one but as I said, the technology is much better and much cheaper now.

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I think there is one key point that these have in common, City, State, Federal all have deep pockets, to coin a pharse, they have what it takes, to take what you got.. I used your links I was not able to find to total project costs, to say they are cost effective we dont know, as we are not given the per kw cost, and every thing I do know about PVs they are as of yet not cost effective per kw..

One point to look at, >IF< PVs are cost effective, I would venture to say that most large companies with deep pockets would be using PVs to greater or lesser degrees.. there are so many tax incentives that goes with using them that it would be hard to fatham most Fortune 500 companies not using PVs to fatten up their bottom line.

Solar is a useful addition to add power generation, and would be much cheaper when it becomes more main stream, PVs need higher levels of manufacturing to bring down the costs..


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Quote:
Originally posted by Chaoslillith:
You how is spending billions on defense weapons we do not need less wasteful then investing in technology that is already proving useful to us and that will improve society much more then another bunkerbuster bomb?
Why not your rich Hollywood pigs would form a company that would produce those beautiful energy farms, it deliquents like you were right?
Bombs do their jobs, that is moch more than can be said about parasites that claim nonexistent virtues.

ES

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Well folks if you had any questions about the level of humanity and morality of the "Christians" using SAGG to prosletyze this thread should set you straight as an arrow.

extrasense wrote:
"Bombs do their jobs, that is moch more than can be said about parasites that claim nonexistent virtues."

Well if that isn't turning the other cheek and paying homage to the Prince of Peace I just don't know what else one could possibly do.

And they wonder why I call them hypocrites.

[Note to Rose: feel free to delete this post]


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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
extrasense wrote:
"Bombs do their jobs, that is moch more than can be said about parasites that claim nonexistent virtues."
if that isn't turning the other cheek
Idiot's interpretation of the Cristian love fits the idiot's interpretation of science, that fully deserves the scorn we have for it.

ES

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Extrasense, you missed my point that we as a country already have the world's most technologically advanced and largest military )escept for China as far as size there is no way we could match them). There is no need for us to keep spending billions on defense R and D not to mention all the wasteful spending the DOD does on a daily basis. We could take a small percentage of the money that goes to the DOD, use it for alternative enery and another small percent and use it for education and the DOD would not lose anything. Renewable energies do their jobs.

The links are of Hollywood stars putting their time and money into renewable energy.

http://www.socialfunds.com/news/release.cgi?sfArticleId=4912

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-powerprop2feb02,0,4434665.story?coll=la-home-business

http://www.treehugger.com/files/celebrities/

Archer, my uncles in Germany who are hardly rich state that their solar has more then pad itself off. if you looked through the rest of the site I linked too I am sure you would have found costs, they had a page that linked to their partners who sell the PV equipment. It is not that expensive anymore.

http://www.partsonsale.com/

http://wholesalesolar.com/solar-panels.html#Anchor-Wholesale-11481

http://wholesalesolar.com/packages.html

For those who do not feel like clicking the large array package was $13,000. Less expensive than just about any new car.

There are plenty of people who can afford to do it. Most people though are not aware that it can save money and pay for itself in a few years, unlike a car which depreciates, solar cells actually enhance the value of your home.

Most Americans still think it is a treehugger, crazy idea that only pinkie-hippie-commies will use. We will have the last laugh however as heating oil and electric prices continue to rise and those off us with solar power will stay have free electricity.

What you forget Archer, is that once installed, most people make money from the power company or at least never have to worry about outages or power bills ever again. That in itself is worth the initial outlay in hot place like Arizona where the electric bill in summer can be $200-400 a month depending on your house. 13.000 / 400. At that rate a solar array takes 32 months to pay itself off. Those government buildings I am sure got their money back within a few years.

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Lillith ... attempting to bring sanity into the discussion will hardly get an acknowlegement from extraNONsense.

There are people who believe that after you can nuke someone ... you should still sow the ground with salt.

They couldn't subdue Vietnam. They can't subdue Iraq. And rather than recognizing the reality of human nature ... they are looking for a bigger stick. Christian hypocrisy at its mightiest.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Chaoslillith:
...
Obviously, you uncles are paying prices, that are subsidised by the government. Which makes money on importing immigrants, which are going to destroy your uncles in due time.

ES

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Ummmm...my uncles are in Germany, I am quite sure that they are not importing immigrants. Turks are moving into Germany but what will destroy the Germans is not the Turks but the fact that most Germans are choosing not to have children.

As far as prices, I refer you yet again to the links I provided for Archer...

Living in fear solves no problems.

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Oh and one other thing, my uncles are MAKING MONEY off their solar power because the panels PROVIDE EXTRA ENERGY TO THE GRID!!! Hence they are not subsidized by the government but are providing a service to the power companies.

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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
They couldn't subdue Vietnam. They can't subdue Iraq. And rather than recognizing the reality of human nature ... they are looking for a bigger stick. Christian hypocrisy at its mightiest. [/QB]
It's not Iraq that we are trying to subdue, the vast majority of fighters in Iraq are NON Iraqi's, or did you miss that? the majority of them are funded by Saudi's, Iran, Syria, Jordanians.. Iran being the majority suppler of tech for IEDs.. body counts/IDs consistently prove this, not to mention the EIGHTY of them we just captured ALIVE.. opps..

See you want it to sound like we are fighting Iraqi's, while there are some, they are far out numbered by the influx of fighters/terrorists from outside Iraqs borders.

There are LESS people dying in Iraq NOW daily than there was under Sadams rule.. by TWO THIRDS LESS, those numbers are from one of your own buddies, Amnesty International, and less than 3% of those killed are by Coalition Forces. Its funny how the liberals whine and throw fits when a Marine shots a rag failing to follow the order to freeze.. but they have NOT A WORD TO SAY when the foreign fighters use a car bomb to kill women and children, or take them hostage and behead them..

And as far as winning in Vietnam, we never lost a single battle, which is more than I can say for the French when they were there..

And Iraq, NO coalition forces unit has lost a single battle..

And if you were one of the grunts on the ground (not that you could ever be), I would bet you would not be so eager to start with taking money for weapon systems to put to some other pink fuzzy feel good programs..

And when you get time, maybe you can tell us how to win a guerilla war, sponsored, supplied and equiped by nations outside the Iraqi AO.

STILL WAITING FOR THOSE PAPERS MORGAN.. post them.. show us how stupid we all are.. or will you give us some more of what Freud called "sour grapes"? no one will "appreciate" them so I wont post them.. lol

And to coin one of your own phrases.. whats this have to do with global warming? or did you run out of facts?.. o. wait you didnt post any.. lol


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Quote:
Originally posted by Chaoslillith:
Oh and one other thing, my uncles are MAKING MONEY off their solar power because the panels PROVIDE EXTRA ENERGY TO THE GRID!!! Hence they are not subsidized by the government but are providing a service to the power companies.
The price that they have paid for the panels, were below what they actually cost.
Moreover, to produce those panels, the energy expanded was more than those panels will produce over their lifetime.
The polution produced was much higher than if the energy were directly consumed by your "uncles".

When and if the balance will become positive, there will be no need to do convincing, the market will just switch to those energy sources.

ES

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