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#6267 03/30/06 02:13 PM
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I'm studying teaching and physics. At the moment i really do not enjoy the lectures that I am going through. Surely there is a better way to take that information to the students I teach?

The point of this is to ask, what stood out for you when you learnt science? Why do you enjoy it? Is there anything that teachers did (or could have done) that I can use?

Any replies would be nice.


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My aunt is a teacher. She's taught English and Logic and music, mostly to Gifted and Talented students, but for the past 10 years or so she's been the head of the drama department at her HS.

I am a tutor and guest-lecturer in programming at a local HS. (I've also taught at the university level.) I mentioned to my aunt that the students are extremely rude to their own teacher. They invariably start out treating me just as rudely, but after the first ten minutes of my first lecture, everyone does a 180. Suddenly, they're paying attention, asking questions, sometimes arguing with me or among themselves about some particular point.

Her response: You have discovered the first rule of teaching and the first rule of maintaining order in a classroom - and that is having something important to say.

If you want your own students to have it better than you did, then you are going to have to go on an intellectual journey. You're going to have to understand why you think you know what you know. You need to be able to explain it very clearly - first to yourself and then to someone else. Make sure you actually understand it - and when you come to that understanding then think, "Geez. I wish someone had explained it to me THIS WAY - I would have understood it very much quicker" and then THAT's the way you teach it.

Qui docet, discet. (Kwee DOH'ket DEES'ket, He who teaches, learns.) Don't expect the students to fall at your feet with anticipation. A huge problem that I think many teachers have is that they've completely lost sight of what teachers are supposed to do. They're full of "educator" nonsense. Know your subject. Make sure that you explain things to students in an orderly way so that they can understand the natural and logical progression of ideas. Plan your thoughts before you speak, but don't plan every word you're going to say.

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I agree. It's hard not to get caught in this educator role. It is a real emphasis where I study. There is a huge discrepancy between the content, Maths and Physics, and the educational units.

And to quote sayings 'Practice makes perfect.' Teaching is not excluded here.


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One of my science teachers spent the first class on riddles to teach us how to ask questions. It was memorable and gave me initiative from the start to speak up in class.

Eye contact with the students is a valuable tool. I was more attentive with teachers who used overhead projectors or if using blackboards or dry erase boards that they turned often to face the class the majority of the time.

If possible depending on class size, rearranging the desks in a horseshoe shape so all the students can see each other and the teacher clearly works well.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoidberg:
I'm studying teaching and physics. At the moment i really do not enjoy the lectures that I am going through. Surely there is a better way to take that information to the students I teach?

The point of this is to ask, what stood out for you when you learnt science? Why do you enjoy it? Is there anything that teachers did (or could have done) that I can use?

Any replies would be nice.
I studied mostly by myself. I.m.o., the teacher should just tell stories, show videos etc. about the subject he/she is teaching. Then he should give the student assignments that require the student to study for him/herself. In case of dificulties the student should contact the teacher.

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I think that TheFallibleFreind, Justine and Count Iblis II have more or less hit the nail on the head. I would like to add that Science is part of the human condition - a good part at that. To be a good scientist your mind must be "lit up" and very active with it. The same thing is true for teaching. I have noticed that students very quickly evaluate and rate professors, instructors, TAs, etc. If your a burn-out, stuck-up,ignorant or just a dummy they know it immediately. On the other hand, can spot genuine passion in a heart beat. If you know your subject well and can tell a good story you will captivate the student's minds. It is just like reading bed-time stories to children. Once you have lit the flame the student will home in on the subject like a missile.

If you are studying a subject and your teacher is killing it - you need to take a different tac. When I studied differential geometry, many years ago, the professor strangled the whole thing and then spent the remainder of the semester beating it to a pulp. I was forced back on my own resources. Essentially I "read around" the subject. I went to the library and looked up the history of the subject and all the punters that had added to it. It is quite a tale. I also looked in every textbook on the subject for "good explanations."

Looking back, I wonder if maybe that prof did me a favor?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
I studied mostly by myself. I.m.o., the teacher should just tell stories, show videos etc. about the subject he/she is teaching. Then he should give the student assignments that require the student to study for him/herself. In case of dificulties the student should contact the teacher.
I would not see this as the perfect education method. By midsemester, I wouldn't expect students to show up except for exams.

Students want to see that the teacher is interested in the subject and interested in them learning. Students will look for reasons to believe the opposite--even if it isn't true.

A good teacher should care about the subject and project this. He/She should be extremely well prepared for every class.

I had one Prof. who would take one day a week and send the students to the blackboards to solve problems. Students worked in teams of 2 each. The Prof would wander around and nudge students when they needed it, or provide new problems as they finished.
(of course, the teacher had to divide the class into 3 sessions on that day to have time and blackboard space for everyone) The Prof. obviously cared, and it showed. Students still remember those sessions (even some of the problems).

I had another Prof. who gave essentially the same lecture 3 times in a row. I stopped going to class. Unfortunately, the Prof. figured out that he was way behind and went into overdrive to cover all the subject (required for the qualifying exams) in time. Point is, students lost confidence in the Prof. because he obviously didn't care.

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Zoidberg wrote:
"I'm studying teaching and physics. At the moment i really do not enjoy the lectures that I am going through. Surely there is a better way to take that information to the students I teach?"

Well I currently teach at the University of Washington, my sister teaches at the University of Wisconsin, and a friend's daughter, in grad school just completed her final year teaching at Iowa State so I come to your question with a bit of sympathy. And then, of course, I was once a student myself (and still am ... in a sense).

I think lectures are a great way to get information across. But lectures need to be exciting. You need to not just be an educator ... but also an actor. You need to exude enthusiasm for the subject and it needs to be contagious. Give me 5 minutes in any lecture hall and I'm a raging adrenaline rush ... even if I've taught the exact same material 20 times before.

And then there's that thing about demos. Build demonstrations. And the more exciting the better. Don't just talk about STP ... blow something up. Then implode something. They'll pay attention. Oh and do it outside ... where windows won't shatter. Ask me how I know. ;-)


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Quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur God:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
I studied mostly by myself. I.m.o., the teacher should just tell stories, show videos etc. about the subject he/she is teaching. Then he should give the student assignments that require the student to study for him/herself. In case of dificulties the student should contact the teacher.
I would not see this as the perfect education method. By midsemester, I wouldn't expect students to show up except for exams.

Students want to see that the teacher is interested in the subject and interested in them learning. Students will look for reasons to believe the opposite--even if it isn't true.

A good teacher should care about the subject and project this. He/She should be extremely well prepared for every class.

I had one Prof. who would take one day a week and send the students to the blackboards to solve problems. Students worked in teams of 2 each. The Prof would wander around and nudge students when they needed it, or provide new problems as they finished.
(of course, the teacher had to divide the class into 3 sessions on that day to have time and blackboard space for everyone) The Prof. obviously cared, and it showed. Students still remember those sessions (even some of the problems).

I had another Prof. who gave essentially the same lecture 3 times in a row. I stopped going to class. Unfortunately, the Prof. figured out that he was way behind and went into overdrive to cover all the subject (required for the qualifying exams) in time. Point is, students lost confidence in the Prof. because he obviously didn't care.
The Prof. should certainly be interested in what he is teaching. But I think that the lectures should not be too much focused about the technical details the students have to master. At university you are educating students to become researchers. So, not only do the students have to master the subjects they are taught, they also have to learn how to master new topics without help from others.

If they don't learn to learn by themselves, they will not learn to do research a few years later when they start to do their Ph.D. and later when they do Post Doc research.

Students don't learn much during the lectures anyway. What happens is that the lecturer breaks down the ''big book'' the student have to go through in steps so that it looks more managable. Students have to sit down and learn the subject by themselves anyway.

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"At university you are educating students to become researchers."

1. He didn't say he was teaching to university students. I didn't think professors took or even cared about educating. My best guess is that he's directed at HS students.

2. Not every college student is going to become a researcher. In fact, it's a pretty small number of them.

"If they don't learn to learn by themselves, they will not learn to do research a few years later when they start to do their Ph.D. and later when they do Post Doc research."

The real thing is this: Many professors are ungodly lazy and some aren't too clear on the subjects themselves - since they've got graduate students to do their work for them.

Even when I taught at uni, I figured that I had a duty to give the students more than they'd get from the book. I assigned reading from the book, but I also gave actual lectures that explained things. I gave my own problems that were generally much harder than the ones in the book.

What you propose is what the very laziest graduate school professors do. I don't even think it's appropriate there - but it's absolutely inappropriate in HS.

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Falliable wrote:
"I didn't think professors took or even cared about educating."

You're correct. We do it for the fabuous salaries.

Falliable wrote:
"My best guess is that he's directed at HS students."

And this makes a difference in what way?

Falliable wrote:
"Not every college student is going to become a researcher."

And this makes a difference in what way? Do you propose that we short-change the student whose intention is to become a physician? Many people change their minds while in college and go a different direction precisely because a professor opens them to new ways of thinking and new possibilities they had never before considered.

Clear out the cobwebs.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Students don't learn much during the lectures anyway. What happens is that the lecturer breaks down the ''big book'' the student have to go through in steps so that it looks more managable. Students have to sit down and learn the subject by themselves anyway. [/QB]
Odd, I learned a lot from my Profs in lectures(at least as an undergraduate). In the end, the student has to sit down with the book and solve problems or he won't really know the subject, but that doesn't prohibit the Professor from being a teacher.

I'm sorry, but if a Prof. decides to show me videos during lecture time, I would wonder what his value-add is to the whole process. Why have a Professor when a less skilled person could do the job--at a much lower cost?

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Quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur God:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Students don't learn much during the lectures anyway. What happens is that the lecturer breaks down the ''big book'' the student have to go through in steps so that it looks more managable. Students have to sit down and learn the subject by themselves anyway.
Odd, I learned a lot from my Profs in lectures(at least as an undergraduate). In the end, the student has to sit down with the book and solve problems or he won't really know the subject, but that doesn't prohibit the Professor from being a teacher.

I'm sorry, but if a Prof. decides to show me videos during lecture time, I would wonder what his value-add is to the whole process. Why have a Professor when a less skilled person could do the job--at a much lower cost? [/QB]
Professors don't really need to teach undergraduates. The reason they do it is because the teaching duties are fairly distributed over the faculty members. If you want to teach less they may give you some other things to do, like organizing the seminars, or maintaining the fauculty webpage.

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Zoldberg:
"The point of this is to ask, what stood out for you when you learnt science? Why do you enjoy it? Is there anything that teachers did (or could have done) that I can use?"

I never taught a class but I have put on seminars for lawyers in my speciality; and such.

Science solves myateries. A smart super saleman once said "sell the sizzle and not the steak". Confront the class FIRST with the mystery behind each proposed scientific solution and you will keep their attention and they enjoy it and remember it more.
jjw

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Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Professors don't really need to teach undergraduates. The reason they do it is because the teaching duties are fairly distributed over the faculty members. If you want to teach less they may give you some other things to do, like organizing the seminars, or maintaining the fauculty webpage.
This is definitely not the case for physics departments in the UC (University of California) system. My advisor was able to avoid teaching occasionally by paying his salary out of his endowed chair. He was unable to do this 100% of the time since the department needed him to teach.

You also make the assumption that all teaching is done at institutions with graduate students and significant research programs. This is not the case. Undergraduate only or schools with masters degrees as the top degree are quite common (at least in the US). Many of them are excellent.

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Count Iblis wrote:
"Professors don't really need to teach undergraduates."

Nonsense. This is absolute nonsense.


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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Count Iblis wrote:
"Professors don't really need to teach undergraduates."

Nonsense. This is absolute nonsense.
Not nonsense but fact, especially in the US where undergraduates do much less than what we do in our undergraduate studies. Let's take physics as an example. In the US in the first year you have to learn calculus. In Europe we do that in high school. And unlike in Europe, in most US universities you don't learn these topics at undergraduate level:

General Relativity

Advanced Quantum mechanics

Quantum Field Theory

Introduction to String Theory.


These topics are part of the curriculum for third and fourth year students in most European universities. These topics can be taught by professors, but also by lecturers. There is no specific need for a professor to teach these topics. Much less so the subjects the US undergraduates have to learn, like Classical Mechanics, Introduction in Quantum Mechanics, Special Relativity, etc.

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Quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur God:
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Professors don't really need to teach undergraduates. The reason they do it is because the teaching duties are fairly distributed over the faculty members. If you want to teach less they may give you some other things to do, like organizing the seminars, or maintaining the fauculty webpage.
This is definitely not the case for physics departments in the UC (University of California) system. My advisor was able to avoid teaching occasionally by paying his salary out of his endowed chair. He was unable to do this 100% of the time since the department needed him to teach.

You also make the assumption that all teaching is done at institutions with graduate students and significant research programs. This is not the case. Undergraduate only or schools with masters degrees as the top degree are quite common (at least in the US). Many of them are excellent.
Yes, in the US the situation is a bit different. Here the Profs and other staff usually meet and decide how to share the teaching duties.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Count Iblis wrote:
"Professors don't really need to teach undergraduates."

Nonsense. This is absolute nonsense.
Not nonsense but fact, especially in the US where undergraduates do much less than what we do in our undergraduate studies. Let's take physics as an example. In the US in the first year you have to learn calculus. In Europe we do that in high school. And unlike in Europe, in most US universities you don't learn these topics at undergraduate level:

General Relativity

Advanced Quantum mechanics

Quantum Field Theory

Introduction to String Theory.


These topics are part of the curriculum for third and fourth year students in most European universities. These topics can be taught by professors, but also by lecturers. There is no specific need for a professor to teach these topics. Much less so the subjects the US undergraduates have to learn, like Classical Mechanics, Introduction in Quantum Mechanics, Special Relativity, etc.
Except for string theory, all of these subjects were taught at my undergraduate institution. I would have avoided string theory anyway...

However, I have to ask myself how relevant this is. So, you don't have to teach (your department would consider web design an equivalent effort?) Your students learn more subjects...how does this relate to whether you have to actually put out effort to teach your classes?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Count Iblis II:
Yes, in the US the situation is a bit different. Here the Profs and other staff usually meet and decide how to share the teaching duties.
The department does meet to decide how to shart the teaching duties in the US. They seem to put more emphasis on "teaching" and "duty" than what you have presented.

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