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#48240 - 03/03/13 11:57 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: ImagingGeek]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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I doubt the thread will end. It seems to continue to evade the idea presented within the OP.
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#48277 - 03/05/13 03:33 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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In reference to post #48237 Part 1

"This leaves us in the interesting position of claiming that ideas, concepts, language, feelings, etc., are physical attributes of the universe itself just like the quark or electron, rather than a product of the functioning of the brain. Not only this, but that a human being, or any other species of the same structure, is in fact a part of the universe not something created by it."
---------------------------------------------------------------
If there was any interest with part 1 and 2 there is...

http://deepthought.newsvine.com/_news/2013/02/05/16857625-neural-research-a-modern-view-part-3
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#48280 - 03/06/13 06:31 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
ImagingGeek Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
I doubt the thread will end. It seems to continue to evade the idea presented within the OP.

I answered the OP's Q clearly - we're still waiting for you to do so...
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#48281 - 03/06/13 08:53 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: ImagingGeek]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Dream on bubba
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#48372 - 03/23/13 05:03 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: ImagingGeek]
Revlgking Offline
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Bryan, to TT you recently wrote
Originally Posted By: ImagingGeek
So, in other words, you're too scared to put your beliefs up to scrutiny... Bryan
Your interesting comment to TT about beliefs prompts me to ask you to remind me of your basic beliefs. Are an atheist?

I hope I have made it clear to readers that, while I have some basic beliefs and opinions, I am not a fixed-position kind of thinker--one who is out to convert others to accept my opinion as The Truth, or else.

And, as long as we can agree to disagree, agreeably, I enjoy having a dialogue with anyone about any important issue. In addition, I welcome any scrutiny of my opinions anyone cares to give. I always try to do my best to be candid, and clear, to avoid being judgemental and the use of ad hominems.
=====================================
BTW, we just got back from Florida where we spent the last two weeks and a few days.

For the whole vacation, the weather was windy and much colder--often in the low 60's and well below the normal 80 degrees, F.--than it has been for in over 20 years. Not once did we need the AC on. On the plus side, most of the days were sunny--no rain.

TREASURE ISLAND, FLORIDA--An interesting part of St.Petersburg
https://maps.google.ca/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&q=treasure+island+florida&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x88c2fd1fbabb837b:0xfaa3664117671adf,Treasure+Island,+FL,+USA&gl=ca&ei=kiZNUa2iFpe-4AOt4YCoDQ&ved=0CLUBELYD
=============


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#48374 - 03/24/13 02:40 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Revlgking Offline
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TREASURE ISLAND. This is an aerial view of the area. We stayed at THE VOYAGER--One of the first six-story buildings built in the area in the mid-1980's, when we bought a time-share, which we have used over the years.
http://www.resortgraphicsllc.com/pinellas-county-fl/treasure-island-north.php

Over the years, the weather at this time of year is usually quite warm. Not this year--the coldest on record, with cold winds, also. However, most of the time, we did get clear skies and sun.
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#48446 - 04/08/13 04:01 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: ImagingGeek]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: ImagingGeek
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
I doubt the thread will end. It seems to continue to evade the idea presented within the OP.

I answered the OP's Q clearly - we're still waiting for you to do so...
IG: What does "OP" stand for? Opening post? And where do you choose to go next?
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#48458 - 04/09/13 10:54 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
samwik Offline
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It's been a while since I posted on this thread; so at the risk of contradicting something I wrote before....

Philosophy is in the eye of the beholder... as is each personal relationship with religion (or with spirituality or creator or judgement). And we all interpret things as best we may try, so that things "make sense" or at least provide some framework for understanding life, etc.

Other frameworks, such as materialism or humanism, can serve the same function; but the point is, it is all about interpretation. As Christopher Langan says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan
"...since Biblical accounts of the genesis of our world and species are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also given to us by God."

I don't think I've ever met a phor that I didn't like. I mean that I like metaphors, and can always find a scientifically valid interpretation. Interpretation is the key to translating from one perspective to another... assuming one has a framework from which to attempt interpreting a novel perspective. With that preface....
===

What about the function of religion... in society, for our species and evolution, for families or governments, or for individuals, and over time and through history? Has this been discussed? Is there a Table of Contents for this thread? ...hint, hint, Revl.
===

I've been enjoying the many confirmations of recent biogeochemical revelations, which I increasingly find while interpreting biblical metaphors, creation stories, and archaeology. It's a fun reason to explore and mine those resources.

The "conservation of matter" principle is revealed in the simple "ashes to ashes, and dust to dust" phrasing; when you learn about the salts and metals of which ashes are composed, and the carbon and oxygen and silica that build dust. Dust and ashes, mixed together, build earth; from which we come and to which we return....
===

Revl, I wanted to share a link--in case you missed the superbowl advertisement--that I've enjoyed; especially since soil is the source of our sustenance. Soil seems key to addressing the 8 Millennium Development Goals and the 5 Food Security Steps. ...and what else is there, for the future?

Quote:
http://farmersforthefuture.ning.com/profiles/blogs/so-god-made-a-farmer

And on the 8th day God looked down on his planned paradise and said, "I need a caretaker!". So, God made a farmer!


This is yet another interpretation, for the Gaia perspective that I enjoy utilizing.

~Blessings & Prayers ...for you and your flock.
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#48459 - 04/10/13 05:41 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Quote:
Blessings & Prayers ...for you and your flock.


Flock: noun: woolen or cotton refuse used for stuffing furniture, mattresses and pseudo scientific threads. (?)
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#48461 - 04/10/13 06:47 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Quote:
Blessings & Prayers ...for you and your flock.
Flock: noun: woolen or cotton refuse used for stuffing furniture, mattresses and pseudo scientific threads.(?)
Bill, 'flock'? I used the word to refer to 'my sheeple'--You know! The kind that, in the "good old days" G~O~D), we clergy liked to fleece, eh? cool Me now? Now--since 1994--I have to be content with fleecing the BIG pension fund.


Edited by Revlgking (04/10/13 10:53 PM)
Edit Reason: Always helpful!
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#48464 - 04/11/13 01:35 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Bill, 'flock'? I used the word to refer to 'my sheeple'--You know! The kind that, in the "good old days" G~O~D), we clergy liked to fleece, eh? cool Me now? Now--since 1994--I have to be content with fleecing the BIG pension fund.
That would illustrate the mechanics of religion as an industry in humanity. However the psychological draw may be a bit more in depth, if you were to address the human interest side that samwik seeks to understand.
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#48484 - 04/14/13 10:40 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: samwik]
Revlgking Offline
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SAM, interesting comments, with lots of symbolism, eh?
Quote:
Rev, I wanted to share a link--in case you missed the superbowl advertisement--that I've enjoyed; especially since soil is the source of our sustenance.

Soil seems key to addressing the 8 Millennium Development Goals and the 5 Food Security Steps....and what else is there, for the future?

Quote:
http://farmersforthefuture.ning.com/profiles/blogs/so-god-made-a-farmer.

And on the 8th day God looked down on his planned paradise and said, "I need a caretaker!". So, God made a farmer! so you say
Originally Posted By: samwik
...

This is yet another interpretation, for the Gaia perspective that I enjoy utilizing.

~Blessings & Prayers ...for you and your flock.
SAM, tell us more about your interpretation of the message of "GAIA".

How literally do you take the Bible stories?
Have you read any of my comments as to how I interpret the Bible stories ...?

So many things about which to have a friendly dialogue, eh?
_________________________
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#48493 - 04/15/13 02:15 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
samwik Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
...tell us more about your interpretation of the message of "GAIA".

How literally do you take the Bible stories?
Have you read any of my comments as to how I interpret the Bible stories ...?

So many things about which to have a friendly dialogue, eh?
...it's often possible to interpret words so that the meaning of a sentence or story is literally, scientifically, true. For instance, the word "earth" could mean dirt or the whole planet. Can you provide some links to posts where you interpret stories?
===

The "Gaia perspective" reveals how precious, special, and delicate this "perfect paradise" is, especially when compared to the alternatives (as revealed through geologic records).

The first 8 posts of:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=48395&page=1
...show how Gaia Theory works, in practice... to some degree. But....
===

To be clear, it's the function of religion for the community, society, and overall civilization, that my comments are focused on. Personally, we find our way however best we can, istm, grasping at some straws of understanding, meaning, and purpose. Religion seems to very effectively be a way (a Tao?) of making sense and adding coherence to "it all." That seems true both at the individual, subjectively personal level, and as well at the group, objectively social level. But even within the same religion, any two people will subjectively experience very different understandings of the details; so I'm not focusing on the functions of the many details that religion can bring to individuals, but rather the functions that religion can provide for larger social systems.
===

Agreement is found, and endures, more easily istm, at the level of social impact and function; so that might be a more helpful angle from which to discuss "philosophy of religions...."

Especially throughout most of humanity's history, religion was a primary social structure--providing the connectivity, care, insurance, and advice needed--in a world where the transmission of information from one generation to the next is always critical to sustainability; ensuring a good life, or a better life, for the future generations--ensuring life everlasting... for one's genes.

There is a reason why biblical wisdom speaks about the sins of the father being "inherited" and how consequences can be expected for 7 generations... or something along those lines--I was raised as a secular science wonk, not a biblical scholar; but I've heard....
And epigenetics validates this ancient wisdom; the lifestyle of any individual has consequences for their grandchildren (on a genetic level)--epigenetics. This might be considered "good news" to share, and to pass on as important information for others to share in the future.

Especially before a few hundred years ago, when the printing press permitted more than one book to inform the process of civilization, that one book needed to cover a lot of questions. Between the answers about origins and ends, there is a lot of wisdom about socioeconomic stability, as well as advice that would make the Bible a good "original" farmer's almanac--more or less a first, "tried-n-true," health and general-welfare promoting, perspective on the big picture.

The Gaia perspective simply strives to scientifically view an integrated whole, or "the big picture," holistically from the beginning to the end and from the largest scales to the smallest bits. Sound familiar? Science reveals how This Creation, whether by luck or design, is an amazing place. We would appreciate it more readily if we knew how special and also tenuous it is; perhaps we might even revere it.

"Creation Care" promotes an ethic that is becoming recognized as a function shared in common between many religions. The Gaia perspective can provide many scientifically valid justifications and explanations for why the biblical bits-o-wisdom about farming, and on socioeconomic stability, and on values supporting sustainability, are important.

And ultimately, this all pertains to history, with its regular rise-n-fall of civilizations on progressively larger local and regional and national scales; and how today's global civilization could learn from history... or else... suffer what happens when we don't learn from history.

Do you know what we are doing to today's heaven-on-earth, this "perfect paradise" --the Arctic, the Arable Soils, the Biodiversity, the Resilience of Ecosystem Services, the Robustness of all the long-evolved ("perfected") parts, that propel this perfect paradise? We are endangering and unraveling, or even fully undoing, the Sixth Day of Creation... within just a few generations. And if we don't supplement our values enough, we consign many future generations to live through a hell-on-earth. Religion has the capacity to inform large networks of people with a coherent narrative... just at a time when a large network of people needs the wisdom of a coherent perspective.

When both science and collective wisdom are shouting the same thing to we imperfect myopes, maybe we should open our eyes, that we may finally see. There is a reason to care for others; they are a precious resource, if we would only see. We can understand this based on faith, and now also based on science (through the Gaia view); so both views can function to support the other--to pursue a future worth seeing.
===

Biblical wisdom helps us focus upon our long legacy; in the time "after life" for us, when we are rewarded with a heaven... or if not, then with some hell.
So with that long future in mind....
What hopes or fears will our own grown and aged children have for their grandchildren?

What world will our children see, through the eyes of their grandchildren, as those expectant and hopeful eyes inherit our future?

~
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Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#48502 - 04/16/13 08:56 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Revlgking Offline
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SAM, your whole post is an excellent contribution to the kind of creative dialogue that is a joy to read. Thanks! You say:
Quote:
There is a reason why biblical wisdom speaks about the sins of the fathers being "inherited" and how consequences can be expected for 7 generations... or something along those lines--I was raised as a secular science wonk, not a biblical scholar; but I've heard ...
BTW, SAM, keep in mind that I write as a UNITHEIST/UNIDEIST. For more info, feel free to ask.


SO HERE, LET'S ASK: DOES THE BIBLE TEACH THAT THE SONS ACTUALLY DO BEAR THE SINS OF THE FATHERS? OR NOT? Note: As with many Bible teachings and ideas, the Bible, as you will see when you read on, that it appears that the Bible is not always consistent.

Here is where, in the Bible, the idea is mentioned: Exodus 20:5, Deuteronomy 5:9 and Deuteronomy 24:16; Ezekiel 18:20. Here the Bible says, YES THEY DO:

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving kindness and truth; who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(1 Cor. 15:22) - "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."
============
Now, here is where the Bible says,
NO THEY DO NOT:

(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

(Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the fatherís iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the sonís iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

FOR THE ABOVE INFO, I acknowledge the help of the following link:
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/do-sons-bear-sins-fathers-or-not

CARM? Keep in mind: IMO, the writers of CARM are very much into defending the Bible as the one, consistent and only truth of God and that the Bible contains no contradictions. Hmmm!

Me? While I respect the right for others to defend their sincerely held opinions and beliefs, I also reserve the same right for all who willingly agree to disagree, agreeably--in the spirit of agape-love smile


Edited by Revlgking (04/16/13 09:58 PM)
Edit Reason: Always helpful!
_________________________
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#48515 - 04/19/13 10:04 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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SAM, it's Friday! Are having a rest?
_________________________
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#48519 - 04/20/13 10:24 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
samwik Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

SO HERE, LET'S ASK: DOES THE BIBLE TEACH THAT THE SONS ACTUALLY DO BEAR THE SINS OF THE FATHERS? OR NOT? Note: As with many Bible teachings and ideas, the Bible, as you will see when you read on, that it appears that the Bible is not always consistent.

Here is where, in the Bible, the idea is mentioned: Exodus 20:5, Deuteronomy 5:9 and Deuteronomy 24:16; Ezekiel 18:20. Here the Bible says, YES THEY DO:

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving kindness and truth; who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(1 Cor. 15:22) - "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."
============
Now, here is where the Bible says,
NO THEY DO NOT:

(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

(Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the fatherís iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the sonís iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."
...but appearances can be deceiving.

Between some Spring cleaning, unexpected snow shoveling, and other apologies, I'll try to keep up. Please continue with any other of my "metaphors" or interpretation from above, which should be more interesting than the example suggested with epigenetics. I do appreciate the cross-referencing work you are providing; using a concordance can be helpful, but somewhat random and laborious.

Epigenetic principles don't seem to conflict with any of the statements you gleaned, at least on my first reading. I'd easily agree with your notion that the first statements support.... But for what you suggest as statements contradicting epigenetics, I saw only more confirmation; if one assumes those statements concerned legal or socioeconomic responsibilities--of Ceasar, so-to-speak, rather than the spiritual/biological wisdom revealed in the "pro" points.

Plus, your "con" points do validate the principle that epigenetics doesn't work "upstream" or backwards; the father isn't affected (genetically) by what the son does. I'm not sure how "grey hairs" from worrying about one's kids wink should be factored in; that seems to be evidence of an "upstream" effect, but I don't think it counts as an epigenetic effect. smile

But seriously, the "con" points speak to "bearing punishment for," which is different from "visiting iniquity" across some generations. To me the latter sounds "fuzzy" or biological, compared with the specifics about legally "bearing" some state-supported sanction. And at the risk of revealing my "fuzzy bearing" logic....

The idea is to find an interpretation that is consistent with scientific wisdom. So after re-reading the quotes you provided, do you see any contradiction; considering the differing genetic or legal interpretations, such as I suggest above? Taken together, the pro-n-con quotes perhaps indicate that while we can be (structurally) forgiven, it can take generations to (biologically) forget. Some "reminders," which visit occasionally, might be a good way to more fully appreciate forgiveness. ...but I'm just speculating....
===

...but just fyi.... I'm no expert on "the theory" specifically, but I've long studied the various sciences that inform the interdisciplinary-based Gaia Theory; so I should be qualified to speak for the Gaia perspective. The main point, aside from my comments about "integrated" and "big-picture" perspectives, is the conclusion that Earth behaves as if it were a living creature--or a living being. But the important qualifier is the "as if" part of the statement; so it remains scientific.
===

So, what do you think about the Creation Care and "Farmer's Almanac" ideas, or the "days" of Creation and the "eighth" day caretakers, or the life everlasting and the afterlife after life ideas, or ...how "Do unto others..." might apply to the planet, as if the planet were an other ...of God's creatures... worthy of being acknowledged and naturally deserving respect, honor, etc....
===

~Thanks
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#48570 - 04/27/13 09:43 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: samwik]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: samwik

=== So, what do you think about the Creation Care and "Farmer's Almanac" ideas, or the "days" of Creation and the "eighth" day caretakers...
Sam, is that a question? If so, what do you mean by the word's I've underlined?_____________

I ask also about:
Quote:
or the life everlasting and the afterlife after life ideas..."

or ...how "Do unto others..." might apply to the planet, as if the planet were an other ...of God's creatures... worthy of being acknowledged and naturally deserving respect, honor, etc....
Have I not made it clear by now that I no longer think of a god with dimensions--one who is a supernatural human-like person?

BTW, check how I sign my posts. For me 'god', ideally speaking, is a concept way beyond any kind of limitation. IMO, a 'god' who exists, mentally or physically, may be a work of art, like a beautiful statue, but it is mindless and powerless.

Did you hear the Woody Allen quote: "If God exists, I hope he has a good excuse ..."

To this I will add a "why" question: "If there is a god who exists, why does he not give us explanation as to what he is thinking and wills?

Is it impertinent for us to ask: "God, why do you allow so much pain and suffering, especially the kind inflicted on the innocent and on children, on the planet we call 'mother earth?' "

No, I am not an atheist. I simply want us to have a dialogue about life, including a new kind of secular and non-sectarian theism (currently I call it unitheism/unideism--note the combination of ideas)--one which is ready to willingly and lovingly partner with the sciences and the arts in the great work of making, at least this planet, "a thing of beauty and a joy forever" (John Keats).
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#48571 - 04/28/13 01:24 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I simply want us to have a dialogue about life, including a new kind of secular and non-sectarian theism (currently I call it unitheism/unideism--note the combination of ideas)--one which is ready to willingly and lovingly partner with the sciences and the arts in the great work of making, at least this planet, "a thing of beauty and a joy forever"
Any "ism" is going to be subjective.

Crafting Ideas concerning beauty (subjectively speaking) regarding this earth and forever, will probably come close to the same approach that was used in creating a God of personality.

Whenever there is a lack of understanding with creation as it exists in the present moment, the use of judgment that approaches life with what is wrong or missing might fail to see the beauty of contrast, or the enrichment of the soul as it exists, or has existed.
Obviously when you approach the idea of creating an earth within the concepts and ideals of belief, it is going to be subject to change and opinion.

If you belief the universe was initially a democratically derived concept, you're likely to project that ideal in assuming command of the present creation when taking over where nature began prior to your democratically manufactured theism as the personal idol of beauty.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#48575 - 04/28/13 08:50 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
samwik Offline
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Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: samwik

=== So, what do you think about the Creation Care and "Farmer's Almanac" ideas, or the "days" of Creation and the "eighth" day caretakers...
Sam, is that a question? If so, what do you mean by the word's I've underlined?_____________
Revl, what do mean, what do I mean.... Sorry... won't go there. smile

I'm assuming you saw my link from above, about how God needed a caretaker, so on the eighth day created Farmers. Based on that assumption, and what I wrote about the Bible serving as a "first" Farmer's Almanac, I thought you might see some interesting connections with the "Creation Care" movements that are currently popular with many religions. Have you learned or heard of these notions? Do these notions, concepts, areas, or ideas seem related? If so, do you see ways for information about one notion/idea to support and develop the related ideas/areas.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

I ask also about:
Quote:
or the life everlasting and the afterlife after life ideas..."

or ...how "Do unto others..." might apply to the planet, as if the planet were an other ...of God's creatures... worthy of being acknowledged and naturally deserving respect, honor, etc....
Have I not made it clear by now that I no longer think of a god with dimensions--one who is a supernatural human-like person?
What? Why would my comment elicit that reply? You are not just some computer are you? Assuming you're not, maybe you thought the reference to "God's creatures" somehow indicated that I anthropomorphize God. Perhaps you don't recall my other posts about how G0d transcends dimensions--or may even be considered as the source of dimensions (at least the space and time dimensions).

Or maybe there is another reason you seem to be defending your rejection of any anthropomorphizing. I already agree that anthropomorphizing leads to many misunderstandings and should be avoided. Don't you recall some of our past exchanges?




Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, check how I sign my posts. For me 'god', ideally speaking, is a concept way beyond any kind of limitation. IMO, a 'god' who exists, mentally or physically, may be a work of art, like a beautiful statue, but it is mindless and powerless.
Okay, and there are the limitations of language too. What about the defined attributes: omniscient and omnipotent? Or is your focus on the "'god' who exists" (omnipresence?) part of your IMO?

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Did you hear the Woody Allen quote: "If God exists, I hope he has a good excuse ..."

To this I will add a "why" question: "If there is a god who exists, why does he not give us explanation as to what he is thinking and wills?
To this I will add a rhetorical reply, copied from another post: "Even if the Earth is 'really' only some 6000 years old, it is constructed to appear as if it is billions of years old. Do you think there is no purpose in this? Donít you think we are meant to learn a story about how fragile, difficult, torturous, and cruel life could be, and how lucky we are now?"


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Is it impertinent for us to ask: "God, why do you allow so much pain and suffering, especially the kind inflicted on the innocent and on children, on the planet we call 'mother earth?' "
Yes, it is impertinant; but that is the way of children, and can be forgiven.

Should a mother try to shape, mold, and educate her children; teach them of value and consequence? [...asked rhetorically]


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
No, I am not an atheist. I simply want us to have a dialogue about life, including a new kind of secular and non-sectarian theism (currently I call it unitheism/unideism--note the combination of ideas)--one which is ready to willingly and lovingly partner with the sciences and the arts in the great work of making, at least this planet, "a thing of beauty and a joy forever" (John Keats).
Good! Go for it; with definitions and references and metaphors and all, for the ineffable!
===

On a related track:
From whence does value arise? What do we value? How is value established? Where is the source of value?

~ smile
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Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#48581 - 04/29/13 02:27 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: samwik]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Quote:

From whence does value arise?
All that is.

Self measure, attachment, ego.

Depends on your point of reference.

Quote:

What do we value?
That would be a matter of either self idealization, or Self Realization.

Quote:

How is value established?
Through the levels of conscious awareness, understanding and experience, we choose that which we feel adds value or definition to our selves, in our relationship with life.

Quote:

Where is the source of value?

It's the same source of all things. How it is filtered thru awareness in differing states of consciousness, experience and the ego's influence within the identification of individuality determines the way we identify or imagine it.
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I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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