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Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
Do you use a sat nav?


why do you ask?


Because the GPS system takes into account both Special and General Relativity. That means both speed and mass. If it didn't then it would be unusable.

We all realize that you refuse to accept the many experiments which have conclusively demonstrated that Einstein's theories are correct, to the level at which they have been tested. The experiment you referenced is another effort to make sure that they work at even finer levels than those they have already been tested to, and the tests to present have gotten very close. Adding a few more decimal points is always useful, just to make sure that our best tested theories still work at that much smaller scale.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
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The point I was moving towards was that it must seem odd, perhaps even miraculous, that your “nav” stays in sync with the “sat” in spite of the fact that some nerd is constantly bug’ring with it in the naïve belief that it needs adjusting to compensate for time dilation due to altitude in a gravitational field and to speed.


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Quote:
Because the GPS system takes into account both Special and General Relativity. That means both speed and mass. If it didn't then it would be unusable.


I just had a look at the satellite navigation formulas and none
of the formulas have any elements that could represent mass
and the only element that could represent speed that I could
find is "c" for the speed of light in a vacuum.

none of the elements in the formulas could possibly represent
satellite mass or satellite speed or any earth based GPS
locator systems speed ...

also the math used DOES NOT contain any of the designer math
that is used to prop up the einstein theories.

and thats most likely why it works so well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Navigation_equations

please point out where satellite mass or satellite speed is located in ANY of the formulas.

the only elements I found are
transmitter time , receiver time
position x , y , and z

also why would a GPS system need to incorporate the designer
einstein math when the orbital velocity is only 3.9 km/s?

are you suggesting that there would be any differences in time
between the clocks on earth and the onboard clocks on a
satellite traveling at such slow speeds in a earth orbit?

I think the whole idea is rather silly myself because someone
on the earths equator is basically orbiting the center of the
earth at apx .44 km/s
(not much of a difference compared 3.9 km/s)
that would mean that someone at either pole would undergo
a drastic time difference when compared to someone at the equator
and we dont seem to have experienced any serious
time differences so far.

so why should a satellite?

same thing goes for mass.



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html


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Originally Posted By: Paul
I think the whole idea is rather silly myself because someone
on the earths equator is basically orbiting the center of the
earth at apx .44 km/s
(not much of a difference compared 3.9 km/s)

No, there isn't much difference between .44 km/s and 3.9 km/s, only a factor of a little less than 9. Of course that keeps changing, since the GPS satellites aren't in an equatorial orbit. Their orbits are at a large angle to the equator.

And the gravitational attractions at the Earth's surface and at the orbit of the GPS satellite (dependent on the Earth's mass) is enough different that it will affect the time of the clock on the satellite.

And of course there is no use talking to you about this since you willfully refuse to accept all the evidence available as to the correctness of Einstein's theories.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
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We are told that the time dimension is are a part of our conscious perception. Is the difference between the tortoise use and the hare in this story a visual example of that difference.

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I cant think of why time is involved in GPS location.

the article you posted

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

states that the relativistic additions were due to time differences
between the atomic clocks on earth GPS stations and atomic clocks
on GPS satellites in orbit.

so they slowed the atomic clocks on the satellites !!!

I have an idea about that but I will check on it later


anyway moving on ... so what?

what has time got to do with the calculation of three signals
sent from an array of 3 line of sight orbiting satellites anyway.

the only useable information that a earth based GPS LOCATION
device needs is the location of at least 3 of the
orbiting satellites positions.

nothing else is needed.

time certainly has nothing to do with LOCATION.

the handheld or onboard GPS system takes the 3 signals and
plots its current LOCATION and ALTITUDE on the earth using
the 3 signals which are sent from the 3 satellites.

there is no need for time insertion into the GPS system
the only thing needed is distance.

the handheld or onboard GPS system uses the
data sent from the 3 satellites
and combines the known data which should be the

1) the satellites orbital height above the point directly
below it on the surface of the earth

3) the satellites orbital direction

2) the satellites orbital speed

4) the earths rotational direction

5) the earths rotational speed

and then plots the current location of the GPS device
on the earth or in the earths atmosphere from the known
data and the data received from the satellites.

not one single instance of time could possibly be needed
to be sent from the satellite ...

the only point in the entire calculation where any instance
of time would be required would be the amount of time
that passes between the satellite location data transmissions
and these could be at any desired interval not some pumped
up magic show prop synced transmission from an intentionally
slowed down atomic clock as long as the GPS device is
programmed to operate at that chosen transmission interval.

I say its simply a well hidden farce that has caused it
to be said that the GPS systems would not work without the einstein trickery and magic show.

this whole thing started as a government project and my thoughts
are that the whole system was designed to extract more and more money from the government that was eager to dump more and more
money into it for military purposes.

but I still want to look into the real reason that they supposedly slowed the satellites atomic clocks down.



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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