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#54034 - 06/26/15 12:13 AM Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minkowski.
==…
a)Stephen Hawking, book: "The theory of everything. Fifthlecture."
" . . . . the universe must have a beginning, and that this beginning
must be described in terms of quantum theory."
"When one goes back to the real time in which we live, however,
there will still appear to be singularities. The poor astronaut who falls
into a black hole . . . . could live in imaginary time, that he would
encounter no singularities."
"This might suggest that the so-called imaginary time is really the
fundamental time, and that we call real time is something we create
just in our minds. In real time, the universe has a beginning and
an end at singularities that form a boundary to space-time and at which
the laws of science break down. But in imaginary time, there are
no singularities or boundaries. So maybe what we call imaginary time
is really more basic, and what we call real time is justan idea that we
invent to help us describe what we think the universe is like."
/ page 91/
So.
The real time in which we live has singularities.
But imaginary time without singularities or boundaries " is really the
fundamental time", " is really more basic. "

b)Einstein /Minkowski.
It was Einstein who first in 1905 introduced imaginary time in SRT.
In 1908 Minkowski changed imaginary time into 4D and said:
“ Henceforth, space by itself, and time by itself,
are doomed to fade away into mere shadows,
and only a kind of union of the two will
preserve an independent reality.”
So.
" space by itself, and time by itself"the real space andtime in which
we liveare "shadows" . . . ." and only a kind of union of the two
( on the basis ofimaginary time)will preserve an independent reality.”
==..
My solution.
An imaginary time means Eternal Time.
The black hole is eternal zero vacuum (T=0K) continuum.
The 4D is eternal zero vacuum (T=0K) continuum.
Space by itself (gravity-space)and Time (gravity-time) by itself
are secondary: made out from the eternal zero vacuum (T=0K)
through singularity / vacuum fluctuation-transformation.
===…
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik Socratus
==,

Top
.
#54036 - 06/26/15 03:10 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
An Indian chief had three wives. The top wife sat on a hippopotamus hide and had two children. The other two wives had a child each and sat on buffalo hides. Which goes to prove that the squaw on the hippopotamus has children to the sum of the squaws on the other two hides.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#54038 - 06/26/15 04:45 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: Bill S.]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
OOOOOH!

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#54042 - 06/26/15 09:58 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: Bill S.]
pokey Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 84
An old Native American saying "soak a toe a",
written s=o/h c=a/h t=o/a.

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#54043 - 06/27/15 01:20 AM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Obviously the trig is in the pronunciation.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#54044 - 06/27/15 02:29 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209

Fact 1

James Clerk Maxwell, in 1861–64, published his theory of electromagnetic fields and radiation, which shows that light has momentum and thus can exert pressure on objects.

Fact 2

Inverse Qubic Law

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C1cgolGV6r0/VUCw2IWncwI/AAAAAAAACWQ/8RhssZGNGKA/s1600/22.JPG


DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS IT MICHELSON MORLEY ???
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nCDH5-n3VTU/VT2AQ_J2eBI/AAAAAAAACV8/RuuDYzzBh3s/s1600/11.png



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mfX1X9yDqDw/VLuo2Th_6_I/AAAAAAAACNQ/YaGD36e4PRk/s1600/mar.jpg

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#54046 - 06/28/15 01:22 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: newton]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
An imaginary time means a situation of absence of Time.
The situation of absence time means Eternal condition.
The Eternal condition belongs to Infinite zero vacuum: T=0K.
===
A black hole has temperature of only one ten-millionth
of a degree above absolute zero. In 1973 the temperature
of the cosmic microwave radiation was about 2,7 degrees
above T=0K. If the universe is destined to go on expanding
forever then the temperature will eventually decrease to less
than that of black hole . . . to zero: T=0K.
So.
There are three basic similarities between black hole and zero vacuum:
a) both have imaginary time
b) both have the same temperature
c) both can emit radiation in the form of "virtual particles"
Therefore black hole is zero vacuum.
=============..

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#54052 - 06/29/15 06:53 AM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
There are three basic similarities between Socratus and Marosz

a) both make up imaginary data and facts
b) both have the same low IQ and lack of education
c) both can emit constant posts in the form of "virtual dribble"

Therefore it has been proven ... Marosz = Israel Sadovnik/Socratus = Zero Intelligence

Originally Posted By: CS Lewis
There is no nuetral ground in the universe; every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counter-claimed by Satan

Ephesians 6:11 “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil” ... enjoy smile


Edited by Orac (06/29/15 07:43 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#54056 - 06/29/15 09:24 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Socratus, I tend not to engage with you as in the past I have been disappointed by your lack of answers.

Perhaps it's worth one more try.

Quote:
An imaginary time means a situation of absence of Time.

This is not logical. In the absence of time how could there be time in which to imagine anything, including time?

Quote:
The situation of absence time means Eternal condition.

This could be true, but it would need evidence. What is your basis for making this statement?

Quote:
The Eternal condition belongs to Infinite zero vacuum: T=0K.

What do you mean by “belongs to”?

What is “zero vacuum”? The term would seem either to be tautologous or meaningless.

How do you justify equating this to T=0K?
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#54059 - 06/29/15 11:46 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: Bill S.]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Socratus, I tend not to engage with you as in the past I have been disappointed by your lack of answers.

Perhaps it's worth one more try.

Quote:
The situation of absence time means Eternal condition.

This could be true, but it would need evidence. What is your basis for making this statement?

Quote:
The Eternal condition belongs to Infinite zero vacuum: T=0K.

What do you mean by “belongs to”?

What is “zero vacuum”? The term would seem either to be tautologous or meaningless.

How do you justify equating this to T=0K?


A black hole has temperature of only one ten-millionth
of a degree above absolute zero. In 1973 the temperature
of the cosmic microwave radiation was about 2,7 degrees
above T=0K. If the universe is destined to go on expanding
forever then the temperature will eventually decrease to less
than that of black hole . . . to zero: T=0K.
=============

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#54060 - 06/30/15 02:58 AM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
As we said you just make up facts don't you Israel or perhaps have a disease that seems common with you old guys who hang out on physics forums.

Try reading even basic wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics

Quote:
Interpretation of the laws
The four laws of black hole mechanics suggest that one should identify the surface gravity of a black hole with temperature and the area of the event horizon with entropy, at least up to some multiplicative constants. If one only considers black holes classically, then they have zero temperature and, by the no hair theorem, zero entropy, and the laws of black hole mechanics remain an analogy. However, when quantum mechanical effects are taken into account, one finds that black holes emit thermal radiation (Hawking radiation) at a temperature

It's not hard to understand all you have to do is read.

You got the bit up to the classical interpretation WHICH WE KNOW IS WRONG ..... now read the next bit.

So no 0K for a black hole .. you can't just make things up like they seem to in religion smile

So lets see if you have enough intelligence to remove incorrect facts from the dribble, personally I doubt it.


Edited by Orac (06/30/15 03:06 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#54062 - 06/30/15 04:02 AM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: Orac]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics
Quote:
Interpretation of the laws
The four laws of black hole mechanics suggest that one should identify
the surface gravity of a black hole with temperature and the area
of the event horizon with entropy, at least up to some multiplicative
constants.
If one only considers black holes classically, then they have zero
temperature and, by the no hair theorem, zero entropy, and the laws
of black hole mechanics remain an analogy.
However, when quantum mechanical effects are taken into account,
one finds that black holes emit thermal radiation (Hawking radiation)
at a temperature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics
====…
Correct. It means that from the Classical point of view
black hole is zero vacuum T=0K. It means that all the fields,
such as the gravitational field and electromagnetic field have to be zero.
Then it seems that the Universe must to be a dead continuum.
But . . . . .
But thanks to " The Second law of thermodynamics"/ Entropy
the infinite zero vacuum continuum (T=0K) can somehow emit
"Virtual particles" which somehow can create the Material Universe.
==============…
P.S.
1.) Henry Poincare named the conception of "entropy "
as a " surprising abstract ".
2.) Lev Landau (the Nobel Prize in Physics 1962) wrote:
" A question about the physical basis of the
entropy monotonous increasing law remains open ".
3.) Wilhelm Ostwald (the Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1909 ) said :
" the entropy is only a shadow of energy".
4.) The famous mathematician John von Neumann said to
"the father of information theory" Claude Shannon:
" Name it "entropy" then in discussions
you will receive solid advantage, because
nobody knows, what "entropy" basically is ".
=======================…

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#54069 - 06/30/15 09:14 PM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
Socratus, I tend not to engage with you as in the past I have been disappointed by your lack of answers.

Perhaps it's worth one more try.


Perhaps not!
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#54074 - 07/01/15 06:07 AM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: socratus

====…
Correct. It means that from the Classical point of view
black hole is zero vacuum T=0K. It means that all the fields,
such as the gravitational field and electromagnetic field have to be zero.
Then it seems that the Universe must to be a dead continuum.
But . . . . .
But thanks to " The Second law of thermodynamics"/ Entropy
the infinite zero vacuum continuum (T=0K) can somehow emit
"Virtual particles" which somehow can create the Material Universe.
==============…

ROFL they told you classic physics leads to a wrong conclusion .... you just repeated it laugh

Is there something about your religion that impairs your IQ and ability to understand plain English?

If you think that anyone is going to convert to your religion based on that garbage, I am afraid you are in for a bitter disappointment. I actually think you are more likely to put them off, as everyone ends up at this position .....Dear God, just stop. This discussion is crazy!!!!!!

You insist that the physics is an important proof your GOD exists, but sorry your GOD just went down for the count .... that devil he works in tricky ways smile

This forum never fails to deliver some entertainment smile


Edited by Orac (07/01/15 07:00 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#54160 - 07/12/15 07:21 AM Re: Time/ Space: from Hawking back to Einstein / Minko [Re: socratus]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
All laws of physics are limited and according to QT
when they go to the limit all physical parameters (space,
time, energy, mass . . . ) disappear.
This limit according to QT is called "vacuum".
But these physical parameters can be reborn through
"vacuum fluctuation/transformation"
What can be done with this data mining?
==..

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