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#52701 08/02/14 04:14 AM
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www.extremetech.com/extreme/187346-nasa-...-actually-works

Seemed interesting. Hope it doesn't take too long for a follow up.

.
pokey #52702 08/02/14 01:48 PM
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I looked at the NASA Abstract of the paper and see that they report the results just as it was reported in ExtremeTech. I notice that they are very careful with what they report. They don't make any claims that the result is real. They don't report that they know why it works, if it does. And there was one anomaly in the testing. They had 2 test articles. One was built to work and the other was built to not work. But they both worked. To me that seems to indicate that there may be something going on other than what the original developers claim. So it is interesting, and should probably be followed up, but it is still rather speculative. I will wait for further developments before I start jumping with joy.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
pokey #52703 08/02/14 01:48 PM
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Quote:
thrust between 30 and 50 micro-Newtons, less than a thousandth of the output of some relatively low-powered ion thrusters in use today.


amazing ( not even slightly )

and they will probably fund the idea , and pour billions
into it.

they ( science ) used to tell me that ...

you cant get a free lunch.
you cant reach down and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
energy cant be created.
etc..etc...etc...

and the department of energy always denied funding of
any of my inventions that would provide energy without using
any fuel.

and their reason was always ...

your invention violates the laws of thermodynamics.

or .... a engineering firm outside the department of energy
would be hired to evaluate the invention and they would
always claim the above reason.

I can say that I know for a fact that QM did not first
invent a machine that can produce motion / energy / electricity without using any fuel or any source of energy.

and I can say for a fact that energy can be created.

I cant reach down and pull myself up by my bootstraps
but I can make a pair of boots that can lift me up
at no cost if I use electricity that is produced at no cost.

and I can get a free lunch if I use energy that is produced at
no cost to grow the food that I eat.



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #52704 08/02/14 03:38 PM
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To add to that , one of the people who I talked to within the
DOE suggested that one of my inventions could be used as
a pump to circulate water in a nuclear power plant , this was way back in the 1990's.

If they would have funded the invention that I was then trying to get funding for , the fukushima meltdown would have never happened because the meltdown happened because the cooling system shut down due to a lack of power.

and my invention would have just sat there and ran the pumps even after the nuclear power plant had stopped providing power.

but the problem there was that the power companies could not use a pump that used no power at all , because the pump would make their power stations obsolete.

stupid is stupid does...


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #52705 08/02/14 04:59 PM
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Just looking at your rant it appears that you are under the impression that the system under test didn't use any power. In fact it runs on electricity. It does not in any way have more energy output than is input. If it works, and that is definitely not a given, it would just provide a simpler way to provide propulsion for space flight because there would be no reason to carry fuel on board. It could convert electricity from solar panels to propulsion. That's it, IF IT WORKS.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
pokey #52706 08/02/14 09:44 PM
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There was an inventor named Paul,
Kept finding he’d hit a brick wall.
The gurus of science
Maintained his appliance
Had no b****y value at all.


There never was nothing.
Bill #52707 08/03/14 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Just looking at your rant it appears that you are under the impression that the system under test didn't use any power


I just read my rant again and could not find that in the context of my rant.

where did I say that this device that nasa is testing did not
require power?


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Bill S. #52708 08/03/14 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Had no b****y value at all.


no bloody value at all?

I guess that "bloody" was the word you were using.

they may lack bloody value , but their values as sources of
energy surpasses the value of any of the currently widely
used energy sources.



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
pokey #52710 08/03/14 01:25 PM
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Paul, you are right, but I expected "bloody" to be censored; after all, it is a genuine "swearword", unlike most of the words that are generally given that designation.

You will note that the verse can be taken as a poke at the Gurus of science. With a little more effort I could probably have stirred up a whole range of people. smile


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #52711 08/03/14 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Paul, you are right, but I expected "bloody" to be censored; after all, it is a genuine "swearword"

Being raised in the USA, it (that word) always escapes me.. other than remind me of a woman during her period or a tampon blush


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




paul #52712 08/03/14 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
Just looking at your rant it appears that you are under the impression that the system under test didn't use any power


I just read my rant again and could not find that in the context of my rant.

where did I say that this device that nasa is testing did not
require power?



As I said, your rant implies that you don't think that the system doesn't use power. At least the rant seems to be about peoples refusal to accept your inventions because they are at odds with well tested physical laws.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
Bill S. #52713 08/03/14 02:44 PM
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yes , an entire range of people.

the "gurus" of science can be thought of as nothing more
than a control method that science seems to have adopted
that favors the energy industry for monetary contributions
to the schools that teach science.

when ever you hear someone repeat what science teaches such as

"energy cannot be created"
"you cant get a free lunch"
"it violates the laws of thermodynamics"
"free energy is impossible"
and heres a new one it seems thanks to SAGG's very own resident guru of science , Bill
"well tested physical laws"

what you are actually listening to is this control method
because these so called scientist actually believe
that these sayings are true , but reality will quickly prove
their beliefs in these sayings to be wrong as soon
as these sayings are tossed in the garbage can where they
belong and actual ( non energy industry influenced ) research
and building of these energy sources begin to break through
the illusion that influence has caused.




3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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Quote:
Being raised in the USA, it (that word) always escapes me.


It is a corruption of "By Our Lady", Which years of misuse has turned into an adjective.


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #52718 08/03/14 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
It is a corruption of "By Our Lady", Which years of misuse has turned into an adjective.


Now that is interesting. I had always kind of wondered where it came from. Thanks for the info.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
pokey #52720 08/03/14 09:02 PM
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He claimed that it had to be seen,
Environmentally it was so clean,
Its pollution was zero,
And it was, said our hero,
A perpetual motion machine.


There never was nothing.
pokey #52721 08/03/14 09:32 PM
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They called him a fraud and a hack,
Claimed his concepts were those of a quack;
But he said with a smile
That they beat by a mile
The mouse with an ear on its back.


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #52722 08/04/14 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Quote:
Being raised in the USA, it (that word) always escapes me.


It is a corruption of "By Our Lady", Which years of misuse has turned into an adjective.


Some kind if reference to the queen?


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Bill S. #52723 08/04/14 01:37 AM
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and then theres Bill S the poet
hes a poet and we know it
cause he passes his time striking rythm and rhyme
on the pages of sagg and we know it.

so dont try and control it cause he rolls it and
composes it then throws it on the pages of sagg and we know it

yes , we know it
we know it , we know that hes a poet.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

Some kind if reference to the queen?


The Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus.

Bill Gill


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C is the universal speed limit.
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Quote:
Some kind if reference to the queen?


"Queen of Heaven" perhaps.


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #52742 08/07/14 05:44 AM
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QUANTUM engine it is not CLOSED SYSTEM !!!

They repeated my test ( test I made in Poland 2012 )

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=52741#Post52741

paul #53129 10/06/14 08:35 PM
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Just realised I didn't post the last verse.

As well as inventor sublime
He was a purveyor of rhyme,
Though bad was his verse,
And his scansion was worse,
His intention was surely no crime.


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #53135 10/07/14 07:13 AM
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Oh Lord now the stupid pollack fool thinks his garbage has something to do with Quantum Mechanics ... if there is a god please save us now have mercy.

Last edited by Orac; 10/07/14 07:13 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Orac #53147 10/08/14 06:05 AM
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Perhaps it is my mercy you should plead for. I have steadily removed his posts from all the threads he tries to invade for some time now. As long as he sticks to his own threads that he starts I will leave him alone. Maybe he will get the message and go elsewhere. In the meantime I hold the power of deletion over him. I know it's a tedious, thankless job, but someone has to do it. I check the forum at least twice a day. It's like trying to herd cats sometimes. laugh I post things I find that I think may be of interest to the general population of SAGG. Most of the action lately has been in the Physics threads, and while my father was a practicing physicist, I did not inherit his knowledge of the topic, so much of the discussion is new ground for me. I've learned plenty, but not to a level that I can myself challenge newton for his interpretations and beliefs. I keep hoping that he will learn enough to get off his ego-maniacal soap box and trundle away into the darkness.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

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I guess what most of us are wondering why even leave it that wide Rose. If you go to look for active threads you now have to scroll down thru countless threads started by newton which are nothing but the same stupid dribble opened under a new thread title. Surely he doesn't need more than one thread to discuss his chicken scratchings.

The number of threads he starts is actually as annoying as the posts off topic, which you are acting on by deleting them which is good and we thank you. Try looking down for active threads and see what we mean.

For me the posts list on screen 20 at a time and on average I am seeing 3 post topics by other people and 17 by Newton.

If I wanted to add something to a post thread say only 10 real threads ago I now have to go back 4 pages of listings.

I seriously think unless you limit him to one thread he can post in as it's all the same topic over and over anyhow. No one is seriously going to wade thru that much rubbish to look for topics that may interest them and why most of us have given up on the forum.

Last edited by Orac; 10/08/14 12:28 PM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
pokey #53153 10/09/14 06:41 AM
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Discussion noted. Points taken. I will do more to protect the forum. In the meantime maybe we can post things of more general interest as well as heavy Physics, which is welcome but limiting. Some action on other threads would help the forum greatly. It has become a mainly Physics forum lately, and I think the non-Physicists among us are perhaps feeling a little left out. I would like to point out that there are other subjects besides Physics on this forum, and that people are welcome to post new topics in the other forums as well. We need more participation. I am ready to welcome any new posters that come along.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

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Ummm Rose this section is the physics forum so it's good it has only physics in it.

Not sure anyone looking for not physics would go into it or expect anything but physics in it smile

The general science forum is up a couple of forums and most are good about keeping to the right sections.

Last edited by Orac; 10/10/14 01:19 PM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
pokey #53165 10/11/14 04:13 PM
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Sorry. I was using the term "forum" to include all the forums. People have been very good lately about keeping topics on the right forums, I applaud that. Just wishing there was more action on other forums so that more people would join in. I hope for more participation.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

pokey #53166 10/11/14 04:23 PM
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Perhaps it is interesting to look at the % of new threads in the latest 20 in each forum that have 0 responses.

Gen...25%
NQS...30%
SF.....25%
Ph.....40% (all Newton)
CC.....30% (1 Newton)

These figures suggest that, discounting Newton, the forum in which a new post is most likely to elicit a response is the Physics Forum.


There never was nothing.
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Originally Posted By: Amaranth Rose II
Perhaps it is my mercy you should plead for. I have steadily removed his posts from all the threads he tries to invade for some time now.

As long as he sticks to his own threads that he starts I will leave him alone. Maybe he will get the message and go elsewhere. In the meantime I hold the power of deletion over him.

I know it's a tedious, thankless job, but someone has to do it. I check the forum at least twice a day. It's like trying to herd cats sometimes. laugh I post things I find that I think may be of interest to the general population of SAGG.

Most of the action lately has been in the Physics threads, and while my father was a practising physicist, I did not inherit his knowledge of the topic, so much of the discussion is new ground for me.

I've learned plenty, but not to a level that I can myself challenge newton for his interpretations and beliefs. I keep hoping that he will learn enough to get off his ego-maniacal soap box and trundle away into the darkness.
Amaranth Rose II, thanks for this useful information. Would that all posters--especially those who are skilled in philosophy, any of the sciences and the arts and who have lived interesting and creative lives--were as frank.

BTW, it is my opinion--which is what John Milton called,"knowledge (science) in the making"--that this could pump new blood, life and energy into SAGG; help make it a serious science forum, and prevent it from sagging.

To Bill S, Sam, Bill and others positively concerned about the future of SAGG let us give them a BIG YES and a smile
=====

The following famous words are often attributed to the Irish born, British and Liberal Parliamentarian, Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing." Allow me to paraphrase and use them in another context:

THE ONLY THING NECESSARY FOR THE TRIUMPH OF IGNORANCE AND APATHY is for knowledgeable, scientific and optimistic men and women to stand back, do nothing and allow the cynics--those who say, "I don't know and I don't care" to be our social leaders.
=====
Mods, PS: If I can be of any help to SAGG getting the name out there, I will gladly take the time to contact science writers in the MEDIA, and scientists of whom I know something, feel free to ask!


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
newton #53185 10/12/14 02:58 PM
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We get that you are crazy Marosz. No-one cares about your silly children drawings seriously why bother keep posting them?

You get that the kiddy drawings have nothing to do with the current conversation people are discussing. Most conversations follow logic something you and your drawings seem to be missing.

As poor as you may be in I am sure the there are Mental health service in Poland that can help.

Last edited by Orac; 10/12/14 03:04 PM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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I am aware that the medical definition of Munchausen Syndrome involves the invention and exaggeration of health symptoms, but all the Munchausen sufferers I have worked with have displayed symptoms which showed a striking similarity to Newton’s posting. In no way am I suggesting that there is any better response than ignoring his posts, but perhaps, as a person, he should be pitied rather than ridiculed.


There never was nothing.
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I rest my case. smile


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #53193 10/12/14 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I am aware that the medical definition of Munchausen Syndrome involves the invention and exaggeration of health symptoms, but all the Munchausen sufferers I have worked with have displayed symptoms which showed a striking similarity to Newton’s posting. In no way am I suggesting that there is any better response than ignoring his posts, but perhaps, as a person, he should be pitied rather than ridiculed.
Bill S, this is what I like to call a pneuma-psycho-somatic--a spirit-mind-body condition. More details, later.


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Revlgking #53194 10/12/14 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I am aware that the medical definition of Munchausen Syndrome involves the invention and exaggeration of health symptoms, but all the Munchausen sufferers I have worked with have displayed symptoms which showed a striking similarity to Newton’s posting.

In no way am I suggesting that there is any better response than ignoring his posts, but perhaps, as a person, he should be pitied rather than ridiculed.
Bill S, this is what I like to call a pneuma-psycho-somatic--a spirit-mind-body condition. More details, later.
Allow me to put it this way:

1. We are pneuma beings--that is, we are self-created, or spiritual-based beings.

2. We have psyches (minds)--that is, brain-based computer-like mechanisms we use to organize life as we perceive it.

3. We also have somas (physical bodies), which we use to experience the physical dimensions we tend to call real life.
==============
Pneuma-psyche-somatic diseases, like Munchausen Syndrome, you mention, and addictions, are diseases we bring on ourselves. We can use willpower, the greatest human strength to deal with them.

Psyche-somatic diseases are those inflicted on us by parents, family, friends others and circumstances. To deal with them we harness the power of education.

Somatic diseases? Here we need all the resources of the somatic sciences.

PUT ALL TOGETHER AND WE HAVE HOLISM.


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Bill S. #53195 10/12/14 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I am aware that the medical definition of Munchausen Syndrome involves the invention and exaggeration of health symptoms, but all the Munchausen sufferers I have worked with have displayed symptoms which showed a striking similarity to Newton’s posting. In no way am I suggesting that there is any better response than ignoring his posts, but perhaps, as a person, he should be pitied rather than ridiculed.

The ethics of such public speculation are at least dubious, but I hope people read and heed Bill's comment. Silence is golden.


"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler
redewenur #53197 10/13/14 09:43 AM
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The problem was silence was achieving nothing. 2 years, hundreds of threads of the same trash and as Bill.S noted 40% of them were not commented on?

So exactly what did all that golden silence achieve?

Sorry you are try to apply normal logic to a person which does not have any normal logic.

Last edited by Orac; 10/13/14 09:45 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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