Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 181 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters(30 Days)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
I was actually shocked the first time I found western people comparing the story of Noah in the bible to Gilgamesh


the stories of the Bible were passed down from generation to
generation orally.

so another thing that needs to be considered is that the
first culture that invented and implemented a written language
would appear to be the origin of any story that was written down by that culture.

in other words the story of Gilgamesh could have been derived
from the stories of other cultures.

like the ancient Chinese invented many inventions before the
western world did , and these inventions were seen by travelers from the west and the west reinvented them and
claimed them as their own inventions , but now we know better.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
Originally Posted By: Paul
in other words the story of Gilgamesh could have been derived from the stories of other cultures.


Then, by the same token, flood stories could have been derived from stories in other cultures.


There never was nothing.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
as I said earlier almost all cultures have a flood story.

finding which story from which culture was the origin of all of the flood stories would be a worthwhile and difficult challenge.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
We have covered a lot of interesting ground (unintentional pun), but have not considered what the desiccation of the upper mantle would have done to the Earth. Nor have we considered how all the water would have made its way back into the mantle minerals.


There never was nothing.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
what the desiccation of the upper mantle would have done to the Earth.


the extra heat from the added friction would have moved upwards releasing hydrogen and oxygen from the minerals
this would have been a extremely large volume of hydrogen
and oxygen and you would think that through this release the overall mass would tend to shrink resulting in the events
you propose , however with the added heat the magma itself would expand into any void created by the hydrogen and oxygen release.


it would have slowly happened over a period of time gradually
releasing the hydrogen and oxygen from the minerals that the hydrogen and oxygen were locked up in.

it would not have been a sudden event that occurred in a matter of minutes or hours.


Quote:
Nor have we considered how all the water would have made its way back into the mantle minerals.


bonded pairs of ions?

Quote:
Apatite naturally soaks up water as water-bearing magma cools, locking it up in the form of hydroxyl ions—pairs of bonded hydrogen and oxygen atoms.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/06/100614-moon-water-hundred-lunar-proceedings-science/

the article says that many believe that the moon was formed
from an impactor , I hold that the moon was once part of the
earth , and that is why the moon always faces the earth with the same face.

because the moons heaviest parts moved toward the earth as the
moon cooled , also forming a hollow in the moon on the dark side.





3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted By: Paul
I hold that the moon was once part of the
earth , and that is why the moon always faces the earth with the same face.

because the moons heaviest parts moved toward the earth as the
moon cooled , also forming a hollow in the moon on the dark side.

How come the hollow hasn't shown up on photographs of the dark side?

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
because its inside the moon below the moons surface.

the surface would have formed (cooled) quickly, then as the
inside cooled ( and shrank ) and as the insides were being attracted to the earth as it was cooling a hollow formed.

at least thats what would happen according to physics laws
if the material that formed the moon were ejected from the earth.

the moon forming this way explains the following.

1) the same face always facing the earth.

2) the moon is made up of the same minerals as the earth.

3) the moon ringing like a bell when impacted.

4) the weird gravity of the moon.

there can be no other explanation.




3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted By: paul
because its inside the moon below the moons surface.

the surface would have formed (cooled) quickly, then as the
inside cooled ( and shrank ) and as the insides were being attracted to the earth as it was cooling a hollow formed.

at least thats what would happen according to physics laws
if the material that formed the moon were ejected from the earth.

the moon forming this way explains the following.

1) the same face always facing the earth.

2) the moon is made up of the same minerals as the earth.

3) the moon ringing like a bell when impacted.

4) the weird gravity of the moon.

there can be no other explanation.




Other than the one that scientific laws actually define.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
PreEarth lives smile


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Other than the one that scientific laws actually define.


and which "one" would that be , Bill Gill?

if you can present any other way that the moon was formed
that can stand the test of the 4 reasons above without using
quantum mechanics just popping it into existence then please do.

I will gladly accept your "one" only if your "one" can explain the 4 reasons above.

orac, your contribution to science is also noted in history.




3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted By: paul

and which "one" would that be , Bill Gill?

if you can present any other way that the moon was formed
that can stand the test of the 4 reasons above without using
quantum mechanics just popping it into existence then please do.

I will gladly accept your "one" only if your "one" can explain the 4 reasons above.

orac, your contribution to science is also noted in history.



For some light reading to show how it works try Newton's "Principia".

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
Quote:
the extra heat from the added friction would have moved upwards releasing hydrogen and oxygen from the minerals


Friction > heat > release of H & O. Sounds OK, but where did you find the “added friction”?

Quote:
however with the added heat the magma itself would expand into any void created by the hydrogen and oxygen release.


“Added heat” from what?

Are you saying that the exsolution of hydroxyls from ring silicates is an exothermic reaction?


There never was nothing.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
Paul, I need a reminder here. Would I be wrong in thinking that you didn't believe in the moon landings?


There never was nothing.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
but where did you find the “added friction”?


that would be in the 7th post in this thread in a reply to you.
#51299 - March 14, 2014 11:57 PM


Quote:
try this

from around 130,000 years ago until
around 13,000 years ago a very large amount of the earths
water became locked up in ice.

the ice formed around the north and south poles.
and extended towards the equator for thousands of miles
and was several miles thick.

thats a lot of weight moving to the center of rotation
and this movement of mass to the center of rotation caused
the earths crust to spin faster.

so the earths crust was spinning much faster than it is today.

and the friction between the mantle and the earths core caused an enormous amount of heat that was transfered into the mantle
this caused the transition zone to heat up , and along with the heating up , the magma that melted the transition zone and filled the transition zone expanded the way that magma / all matter does due to temperature increases.



Bill S, if your going to participate in this discussion please
at least try to remember the basics of the discussion.



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Paul, I need a reminder here. Would I be wrong in thinking that you didn't believe in the moon landings?


Im not sure how that would fit into this discussion but
to remind you , I do believe that the moon landings were made.

but I have no moon landing proof myself other than what
I have read about and watched on the news.

so its a belief as you say.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
Quote:
Bill S, if your going to participate in this discussion please
at least try to remember the basics of the discussion.


Paul, I had not forgotten that post, I had charitably inferred that its absurdity might have dawned on you, and that you might have found another source of friction.

Quote:
so the earths crust was spinning much faster than it is today.


No evidence that this happened.

Are you seriously suggesting that the movement of water/ice towards the poles could cause a worldwide fracture of every lithospheric plate such that a rift occurred between crust and upper mantle?

Where is your evidence for that?

Quote:
and the friction between the mantle and the earths core caused an enormous amount of heat that was transfered into the mantle


Even if your tectonic “miracle” had happened, how/why would that increase friction between mantle and core?

Quote:
this caused the transition zone to heat up


Friction between a solid and a liquid at the base of the mantle, for which you have no evidence, caused sufficient heating at the top of the mantle to drive off the hydroxides?

Evidence?


There never was nothing.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Paul, I had not forgotten that post, I had charitably inferred that its absurdity might have dawned on you, and that you might have found another source of friction.


charity would have been something like , paul have you found
some other means at which the flood waters were produced other
than your proposed friction caused by the extra rotational speed of the earths crust due to the ice gathering at the poles
during the ice age.

did you know that a really slow turning wheel on an axle will
produce large amounts of frictional heat if the bearings become
damaged?

and nope , I havent found anything that could produce a large
enough amount of heat to cause the worldwide flood that has
been recorded in stories from all over the world.

Quote:
Are you seriously suggesting that the movement of water/ice towards the poles could cause a worldwide fracture of every lithospheric plate such that a rift occurred between crust and upper mantle?


nope.

Quote:
Even if your tectonic “miracle” had happened, how/why would that increase friction between mantle and core?


I have already explained that also , I suppose your being
charitable again.

Quote:
Friction between a solid and a liquid at the base of the mantle, for which you have no evidence, caused sufficient heating at the top of the mantle to drive off the hydroxides?

Evidence?



the worldwide flood that has
been recorded in stories from all over the world.

do you have any evidence that all of the stories are not true?

and then theres this.



notice the temp peaks in the graph cannot be linked to a orbit
that the earth would be affected by.





3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
B
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,570
Quote:
charity would have been something like , paul have you found
some other means at which the flood waters were produced other
than your proposed friction caused by the extra rotational speed of the earths crust due to the ice gathering at the poles during the ice age.


Charity: from the Latin caritas = virtue. There is no virtue in being obsequious.

Quote:
did you know that a really slow turning wheel on an axle will
produce large amounts of frictional heat if the bearings become
damaged?


Yes; but it is hardly relevant to this discussion.

Quote:
I have already explained that also , I suppose your being
charitable again.


Would it be uncharitable to point out that you have not explained it in a way that makes geological sense?

Quote:
the worldwide flood that has
been recorded in stories from all over the world.

do you have any evidence that all of the stories are not true?


A lot depends on what you mean by the “truth” of the stories. There is, as far as I am aware, no evidence of a worldwide flood in the geological record. There is, however, plenty of evidence of large localised floods. There are floods ranging from the filling of the Med, through the release of glacial lakes, the rupturing of natural dams, tsunamis and lahars. Any of these that struck primitive communities might have been seen as worldwide if they flooded what for those people was the known world. Just because there are lots of stories of floods, that does not mean they were all about the same flood.

Quote:
notice the temp peaks in the graph cannot be linked to a orbit that the earth would be affected by.


Nor can they be linked to a worldwide flood.


There never was nothing.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
A lot depends on what you mean by the “truth” of the stories. There is, as far as I am aware, no evidence of a worldwide flood in the geological record. There is, however, plenty of evidence of large localised floods. There are floods ranging from the filling of the Med, through the release of glacial lakes, the rupturing of natural dams, tsunamis and lahars. Any of these that struck primitive communities might have been seen as worldwide if they flooded what for those people was the known world. Just because there are lots of stories of floods, that does not mean they were all about the same flood.


Can I also add that some of what are also regarded by certain people as flood references are also not regarded as such by descendants of people of those references ... so we have the question do some people see flood stories because they want and need to have flood stories.

Many scholars now believe what my people believe.

Originally Posted By: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth
Many scholars believe that the flood myth was added to Tablet XI in the "standard version" of the Gilgamesh Epic by an editor who utilized the flood story from the Epic of Atrahasis.


If you want it blunt someone butchered Persian history and tablets to add an 18th century myth to feed there need to have a great flood story.


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
paul Offline OP
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Yes; but it is hardly relevant to this discussion.


sure it is , the friction inside the earth is like steel rubbing against steel , because of the high pressures.

and the heat from that friction would transfer to a tire
mounted on a wheel.

this actually occurs when someone leaves their parking brakes
on , the tire can even catch on fire from the heat while the car is driving down the road.

Quote:
Would it be uncharitable to point out that you have not explained it in a way that makes geological sense?


that would depend on what you consider sense to be.
even in what you consider to be geologically sensable
there is a worldwide flood before the first land masses lifted out of the waters.

as the earth cooled and shrank in size the waters which covered the earth soaked into the earth giving birth to the first land masses.

many scientist also believe that the earth was covered
by water in the earths early geology.

Quote:
As the mantle cooled, land would have gradually appeared as the oceans became deeper and regions of high relief on the continental crust formed.”



http://metro.co.uk/2008/12/31/early-earth-was-covered-in-water-274995/

of course the earth was too hot to contain any water before
the earth began to cool , the water was all in the atmosphere
of the earth at that time in the form of water vapor.

as it is briefly described in Genesis of course.

Quote:
Any of these that struck primitive communities might have been seen as worldwide if they flooded what for those people was the known world. Just because there are lots of stories of floods, that does not mean they were all about the same flood.


you are assuming that the many stories originate from people
who are spread out over the world at the time of the flood
that the many stories are referring to.

I believe the stories were passed down by people who were
descendants of people who witnessed the worldwide flood as those people spread out over the world.

Quote:
Nor can they be linked to a worldwide flood.


are you sure?


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Page 7 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact UsokĀž»­¾W
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5