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newton Offline OP
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Orac ?


observer ---> Vy -------light>>> ------ mass M -----> Vx


Light must hit mass M and back to observer
many years ago Michelson Morley was Important zero
few weeks ago we all could read that dark matter not give light signals

Marosz
What if mass M is faster than light ?

light can not hit mass M
Observer can feel only old apparent positions mass M ( dark matter has got Mass 70% of the universe ?)


What if mass M is faster than light ?


m1 ..m2 ...m3 ............... M >>>>> Vx>C

m4
m5

....m6


Mass M will never stop moving !!! mass M give forces to many masses m1...m6...mx around mass M

mass M is making work !!! but not slowing down ( Universe feel mass M but mass M not feel the universe )

!!!!

masses m1..m6....mx = galactics

galactis right now accelerating


MAROSZ ***

In universe only!!! only !!! mass M (above model ) has got constant motion.

Not Exist other masses around mass M that have got constant velocity. Each masses m ...mx must accelerate. They step by step
register apparent positions of the mass M


Mass M was first ? ( first- after big bang ???)


All what I showed above can be describe by very poor mathematic
I like very simply model .Simply .... ?

before Us many work and problems -- people who right now are resposible for education need be brave... they Can not repeat mistake ... they must repair physics .


We Must back to Gallileo "Natural Fall DOWN law"
need be more wide

We must add motion to NEWTON's equation
we have to rebuild RULES !!!

.
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newton Offline OP
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Motion ? I'm moving but respect to what ?


g1..g2...g3...You >>>>

You were in point g1 and
your body started wave 1 (gravitation )

You are moving respect to
point where You were in past


Einstein body A is moving respect to body B or C or D...?

You are moving or stars ?
what is your energy ?
how big energy has got universe ?


Last edited by newton; 01/15/14 09:38 AM.
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Perhaps the kindest thing we can do for you MAROSZ is show you an article.

http://phys.org/news/2014-01-einstein-wrong.html

Read it and understand it ... spend the time to translate and understand it properly because it is important !!!!!

It tells you the fact you can't prove Einstein wrong and no one is going to throw relativity out that isn't how science works, you can however replace them.

As the writer of the story comments the way you are trying to argue your idea at the moment will guarantee scientists throw it in the rubbish bin.

All the appealing and grovelling to ignore this and go back to that, simply isn't science and makes you look very silly. I am pleased to see you have at least taken advice and stopped with the drawings so I will answer things I think are appropriate given you are making an effort.

I can't work enough into either of you situations above to make any real comment on, throw in some maths and I might be able too.

I am disappointed in you however as you are introducing new problems without trying to explain under your idea why we have to keep adding more and more energy as the proton in the LHC increases speed. The religious lunatic has had more to say on the issue than you.

Last edited by Orac; 01/15/14 10:18 AM.

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neither of your links show any information pertaining to how the protons
speed is measured.

lubos uses the false math orac.

for instance his first formula in the article , is proposedly a calculation of
the rest mass of a proton.

" rest mass is the mass of an object when it is reguarded as being at rest
relative to an observer"

the above alone is retarded , no thing is at rest.

these two words used in conjunction in real science has no meaning because no thing is at rest , all things are in motion.

his calculation is apx 1 gev / c^2 , LOL

then he adds the lorentz gamma factor , and in this calculation he uses
the false math that is specifically designed to uphold Einsteins theories.

1/sqr1-(v^2/c^2) <------ charlatan math inclusion.

with the above formula you will always end up with a number lower than 1

ie.. the math will always show that no thing can ever travel faster than
the speed of light in a vacuum.

I skipped through the rest of the specially designed math because I know
that the math is fake.

ok , I did read the rest of the article where he dwells on gibberish such
as time dilation and distances being shortened and other garbage while
using the fake math to show how it is come into being.

I will say this however his dribblings sound alot like your dribblings without
all the religious bashings.

a spaceship that is designed by those who adhere to the fake math such

as depicted in his article might be traveling several million x the speed of

light , yet their math would prevent them from ever knowing just how far

they have traveled.

because their math will not even allow light speed.

a clear example of the blind leading the blind.




3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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So lets face it no evidence will work for you because because the great goat god in the sky is under threat because he is just a fragile effigy.

There is no way to prove a speed even under the great goat or even the police and law, at some point you end up with distance/time which is a calculation which you will then complain about for either the numerator or denominator.

Time as you say is in the mind so to you that is a fictional entry and distance is going to be problematic because everything like the earth is moving so how does one measure the distance accurately.

So your goat god argument will end up

dubious distance / fictional time

That was where I was expecting the argument to end up because that is the obvious logical ending of this garbage. Now I could go back an ferret around and try and get other papers and calculations but we both know I am wasting my time you are a goat god believer and unless the great goat god in the sky blesses the calculation it isn't going to work for you.

Lets face it the only way we could resolve the speed for you I think is we stick your head in the LHC and you tell us how fast you see the protons moving.

On the plus side if we did that we could solve a problem that the LHC has been grapling with "What would happen if you put your hand in the Large Hadron Collider?"

From http://www.wimp.com/hadroncollider/


Last edited by Orac; 01/16/14 01:07 AM.

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you could run the LHC from now until doomsday but using the
specially designed math that is used to calculate the speeds approaching c will never allow a calculation to show
that matter can reach c.

because the math is designed to not allow c.

thats the way this argument was designed to end up.

showing that the math is fake.

now take this into consideration , it is said that the particles mass is increasing apx 4000 - 7000 times what
it was before being accelerated.

the speed measurements are derived from the collision energy.

if you know for a fact that matter cannot travel as fast as light because that is the belief that your cult believes in
and that is the foundation of your education and your whole career depends on it , then how would you explain away a larger collision energy than expected.

lets try increasing the particles mass rather than admitting that the particles are traveling faster than c , and see how that looks to the other cult members whos career also depends on it.

ok , yes thats the answer we can claim that the particles mass is increasing and that is why the collision energy is larger than expected.

LOL



3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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newton Offline OP
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ORAC

The problem is earth is describing an arc spiral so when you watch a laser describe a straight line across a room it is actually arc spiraling because the whole room is arc spiraling in the motion you just calculated yet you see it as a straight line.



MAROSZ
You have right ?

Omega = V / R

If My camera will have small different angle to V it joust can be small mistake distance SUN -----Earth 150 000 000 km
my picture time 10 sec. Can I think that is strait line ?
( I can not evaluate this mistake in home )

before test I schould use very precision
tool to show me direction ( Omega arrow ) classical mechanic , or light

I also in my home set other direction !!! 220 km/s
and my +/- 5 degrees gived me 8,6 biger brightness different

camera 1 ---bulb --- camera 2 >> 30 km/s --- direction 1---

camera 1 ---bulb --- camera 2 >>>> 220 km/s ---direcion 2 --


average brightness different 0,8 % direction 1

average brightness different 8,6 x 0,8 % direction 2



IF YOU LIKE

PLEASE EVALUATE BELOW PROBLEM

Earth--------SUN -----------------Earth winter >>> 20km/s
Summer .......P1

not exist C+ 20 km/s

Sun started signal in p1 point

Inerted Square Law ???
how far from P1 point
Earth will register signal ? ( intensity winter/summer )

Intensity of the signal
has got any relation with constant motion ?

E--- Sun ----E >>> 20 km/s
E--- Sun-----E >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500 km/s

Where sun started signal ? where Earth will register signal ?
how big Intensity !!!???

Why we have winter / summer ( 66.66 is only one reason ??? )


WHAT ABOUT GRAVITATION ???!!!

EINSTEIN CONSTANT ACCELERATION ( FAMOUS ROCKET PROBLEM )


Earth -----SUN ---------EARTH >>>>>>>acceleration

Eart -------SUN --------EARTH -----> constant V


I was first person ???

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newton Offline OP
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respect to what my camera see different brightness ? ( different intensity ??? ) west east


respect to Sun's ?

Fresh or Old position ?

Sun was in p1 if I see P1 where is the sun Where I'm ?
how far from p1

Why Inverted Square Law is importnat ?

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I still for the life of me can't work out what you are on about but lets fill in some maths numbers and see if it helps you describe what you are trying to solve since you are actually communicating.

Originally Posted By: MAROSZ

respect to Sun's ?


No idea what this means in a stand alone I am assuming something to do with the sun brightness so lets answer that.

The sun output has been studied by climate science for the last 20 years or so so we know the actual direct solar irradiance at the top of the atmosphere fluctuates by about 6.9% during a year (from 1412 Watts per square meter in early January to 1321 Watts per square meter in early July) due to the Earth's varying distance from the Sun.

No way of doing this as a ground based observation because clouds and even the temperature of atmosphere change everything at the ground where you and I live.

I think that is what you are suggesting you are going to try and measure but it can't be done at ground level because of the atmosphere issue. So if that is what you are suggesting it won't work.

The solar irradiation at the actual sun surface is remarkably stable even the appearance or not of sunspots changes the value little and I will ignore that for now because I don't think that is what you are on about.

Originally Posted By: MAROSZ

Fresh or Old position ?


Ok I am assuming from this you realize there is a flight time of 8 minutes +- a little bit depending on time of year and distance we are from sun.

The photons of light fly in a direct straight line so that means the photon that is leaving the sun right now will not hit earth because earth will have moved in the 8 minutes of flight time.

The only photons that will hit earth are the ones that leave the surface of the sun slightly forward of our current position and the earth and the photons sort of collide in a 3D collision.

This is exactly the same when we fire lasers at the moon you have to fire forward of the moon position you are aiming at to allow for flight time. There are actually many reflection targets on the moon science uses

http://www.space.com/20865-soviet-moon-rover-lunokhod-laser.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_Experiment.html

As the last link explains it is almost the same as "a rifle to hit a moving dime (US coin) 3 kilometers (two miles) away."

So I am not understanding what part of this you are struggling with the photons get emitted from the suns surface in a straight line like a bullet. The ones that leave slightly ahead of a straight line between earth and the sun currently we will collide with in 8 min time.

Originally Posted By: MAROSZ

Sun was in p1 if I see P1 where is the sun Where I'm ?
how far from p1


This makes no sense to me lets turn it back to a rifle, bullet and target because that is exactly what we have.

My bullet from my gun take 8 min to reach the target but the target is moving in that 8 min. If I aim directly at the target my bullet will miss and fall behind it. What I have to do is aim slightly in front of the motion of the target to hit it.

Lets say I am not a good sniper so instead of a rifle I get myself a machine gun. What I do is spray a pile of bullets ahead of the target increasing my chances of hitting it. Anti-aircraft guns work on that principle they lay down a field of fire ahead of the current position of the aircraft.

The sun is like the ultimate machine gun it lays down a massive amount of photons in 360 degree the exact number can be calculated to be 1 x 10E45 photons per second

Here is the calculation by Dr Brian Cox.

http://harveyjohnson.wordpress.com/2013/...un-in-a-second/

Earth will encounter only a small fraction of those 1x1045 photons emitted every second being the ones emitted pointing slightly forward of earths current position.

You can do a quick calculation of what percentage of the suns light we hit easily

1360 Watts per square meter is a rough average sunlight per square meter on earth which equals approximately 3x10E21 photons.

The cross sectional area of earth is

pi*6378000^2= 127,796,483,130,631 square meters.

I will round that to 1.3x10E14 square meters

So earth gets hit by 3x10E21 x 1.3x10E14 = 3.9x10E35


So the sun emits 1x1045 photons per second of which earth get hit by 3.9x10E35 photons per second so that is 0.0000000000039%.

So as you can see only a tiny percentage (0.0000000000039%) of photons emitting out from the sun per second ever hit the earth and those that do are the photons that were pointing at our current position 8 minutes ago just like the bullet and target example.

Now I have no idea if any of that helps you but at least you have numbers and mathematics to start.

Last edited by Orac; 01/16/14 03:07 PM.

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SUN---------Earth >>> 20 km/s
p1


.....SUN---------Earth >>> 20 km/s
p1.................p2



SUN---------Earth >>> 40 km/s
p1

...................SUN---------Earth >>> 40 km/s
p1...............................p2


20 km/s respect to point where signal started ???

TEST IN HOME
I ALREADY REPEATED IN HOME TOLMAN's BRIGHTNESS TEST

1930 Tolman surface brightness test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolman_surface_brightness_test


Please Turn On bulb on table in Your room ( look what is it brightness picture below )



please remember that flashlight and Earth are moving in space !. Screen will always register apparent position of the bulb from past .

what is it apparent position (below animation )
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Aberrationlighttimebeaming.gif

( only absolute stationary bulb is not sending signals from many new points ) .
Light speed is only C ! not exist in vacuum C+Vearth. Light need short time T to touch the screen ( time T for distance L1 ) - during time T Earth and screen and table escape from point 1 (escape from point where signal 1 started )

PLEASE TAKE MASTER SOURCE OF LIGHT and one CAMERA







WHY ABOVE TEST IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR PHYSICS ?



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above I showed problem for LIGHT

GRAVITATION and MOTION ?



Orac above You have famous Einstein's rocket ( mass M ) and person insie rocket ( mass m )

M---m >>>> constant acceleration
p1

mass M started gravitation's wave in point 1 where mass m will register wave 1... wave 2 ...wave 3


Can we recognize different if we speak about rocket that is on planet or rocket that constant accelerate ?

M---m ----> constant V ( planet)

M---m >>>> constant acceleration ( rocket and person )

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Sorry all look's like children's drawings to me as usual .... I have no idea what you are trying to say.

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED PEOPLE TO TELL YOU THE PICTURES ARE STUPID ... THEY ONLY MAKE SENSE TO YOU.

TELL ME HONESTLY HAS ANYONE EVER SAID THEY CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR PICTURES?

Go back to what I posted and explain what you are trying to say and stop jumping around.

Stay with ONE IDEA choose the illumination problem or the rocket stop switching between both it just confuses.

If you post pictures again I am simply going to ignore you.

Last edited by Orac; 01/17/14 11:08 AM.

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1930 Tolman surface brightness test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolman_surface_brightness_test

what is it apparent position ? (imortant animation )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Aberrationlighttimebeaming.gif

Orac can you imagine two masses M-----m both masses in space are moving with the same speed

after study :

Q1

M-------m >>>> 100 km/s
p1

M-------m >>>>>>>>>>>>> 300 km/s
p1

How big intensity of the signal ( gravitation )
will register mass m
( Intensity = Brightness -TOLMAN !!! )


Stupid drawing ? In famous Einstein's example
the rocket has got constant acceleration between rocket and masses inside rocket exist gravitation's forces.

Orac do You know what mean that we can recognize different
between rocket that stay on planet and rocket that has got constant acceleration ????

PLEASE READ ABOUT TOLMAN TEST please imagine Tower 100 meters

Bulb
I
I
I
tower 100 meters long
I
I
I
Earth----------astronomer

Astronomer can observe the bulb ? what they knew about bulb

1 he can measure electric energy consumption (power )
2 he has got distance to bulb ( hew knew how many time light need
for this distane )

3 HE CAN REPEAT TOLMAN'S observaton ( brightness )
he will not register RED / BLUE shift BULB and EARTH are moving with the same speed !

what he will be able very easy recognize brightness of the bulb has got relation with direction.



astronomer1 -------- BULB ---------- astronomer2 >>>> 30 km/s

astronomer 1 will register more brightness bulb
astronomer 2 will register more darkness bulb

ORAC ask any of Your friend who like wach on stars ...
Please ask them why and how to find relation between velocity
and intensity of the signal

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1930 Tolman surface brightness test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolman_surface_brightness_test

what is it apparent position ? (imortant animation )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Aberrationlighttimebeaming.gif

Orac can you imagine two masses M-----m both masses in space are moving with the same speed

after study :

Q1

M-------m >>>> 100 km/s
p1

M-------m >>>>>>>>>>>>> 300 km/s
p1

How big intensity of the signal ( gravitation )
will register mass m
( Intensity = Brightness -TOLMAN !!! )


Stupid drawing ? In famous Einstein's example
the rocket has got constant acceleration between rocket and masses inside rocket exist gravitation's forces.

Orac do You know what mean that we can recognize different
between rocket that stay on planet and rocket that has got constant acceleration ????

PLEASE READ ABOUT TOLMAN TEST please imagine Tower 100 meters

Bulb
I
I
I
tower 100 meters long
I
I
I
Earth----------astronomer

Astronomer can observe the bulb ? what hew knew about bulb
what he can measure ?

1 he can measure electric energy consumption (power )
2 he has got distance to bulb ( hew knew how many time light need
for this distane )

3 HE CAN REPEAT TOLMAN'S observaton ( brightness )
he will not register RED / BLUE shift problem
BULB and EARTH are moving with the same speed !

what he will be able very easy recognize brightness of the bulb has got relation with direction.

astronomer1 -------- BULB ---------- astronomer2 >>>> 30 km/s

astronomer 1 will register more brightness bulb
astronomer 2 will register more darkness bulb

ORAC ask any of Your friend who like wach on stars ...
Please ask them why and how to find relation between velocity
and intensity of the signal

to help You find relation I want to show You one "stupid" drawing
Rocket = Earth
Rocket has got two long wings 100 meters
at the and of each wing we have hot bulb

can you recocognize zero motion and constant motion !!
can you imagine that also Omega it is zero problem for astromomer ( each ring from below picture = 3d signal )




When You will start study abowe example
You not read my posts ? You not like astrnomy ?





Last edited by newton; 01/18/14 10:09 AM.
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