Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 56 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters(30 Days)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
The BIG question: IS THERE A GOD? Check the answers in the latest edition of:

http://www.ucobserver.org/opinion/2014/01/big_question/

The UNITED CHURCH OBSERVER is the prize-winning monthly mag of the United Church of Canada--the church with only three commandments:
1. Keep the Golden Rule
2. keep the Golden Rule and
3. Do the best you can with the other seven. cool
=======================
There is one other: As long as you bring a buck or two, or more--NOW AND THEN: Atheists/Agnostics! WELCOME! laugh

JOKE TIME: When Toronto--near which, I live (Markham (Thornhill)Ontario, Canada--was hit by a BIG winter ice-storm, just before X-mas, neighbours asked me to "Do something religious, REV!"

So I did, I took up an offering! laugh BTW, I always laugh at my own jokes--like as did the comedian RED SKELTON, eh!

BTW, the weather turned mild, not long after I did my magic. HOW ABOUT THAT, EH? --as we say in C uh! N uh! D uh!, eh!




G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Orac, I just read an excellent piece of writing by a writer to forum of the United Church OBSERVER. Many thanks were given. I added mine:

REV BS--real initials, BTW--I, too, thank you for your excellent piece of writing. Would it too brazen of me to suggest:

You could have been more in tune with what you wrote if you had titled your article, as do I:

OPEN LETTER TO GOD

Dear God, are YOU, or are YOU NOT, a real person with a human-like image like us?

If the answer is YES! Can you imagine what this could mean for YOU, and your son's church?

YOUR REGULAR COLUMN IN THE UNITED CHURCH OBSERVER--announcing your will for the day. With the help of www.WonderCafe.ca it could be headline news in every paper and magazines ALL OVER THE GLOBE. WOW!

Just think, no more need to have to waste time reading the daily HOROSCOPE; nor the need for billions of us, especially our clergy, to keep on begging you--over and over again for so many special favours: O God, make all the bad people good, and all the good people nice. No more war! Think of the saving of lives and expenses!

BTW, God, I hope you have a sense of humour! smile


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I made it clear to my listeners: BELIEVE ONLY WHAT MAKES SENSE, WHAT IS RATIONAL AND WHAT WORKS, ESPECIALLY FOR YOU.


I think that is why I have very few problems with your religion and your views because it does seem to be sensible, sane and rational.

TT would go on about how you insist this or that but for me personally the things you are insistent on are the domain of religion and so I have no issue. TT's issues are because he believes in a different set of religious criteria and so he is always going to clash with you over religion.

You still haven't answered my question as to whether you think it's possible to hypnotically treat someone with multiple personality disorder and resolve them back to one personality?


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
No more war!


That would be nice and different for the world.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, God, I hope you have a sense of humour! smile


I am hoping that myself smile


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
Originally Posted By: Orac


TT would go on about how you insist this or that

I would never.. shocked
Originally Posted By: Orac
but for me personally the things you are insistent on are the domain of religion and so I have no issue.

Religion is simply belief. They (beliefs) emerge, they change, and they fall away.
Originally Posted By: Orac
TT's issues
UH.. My issues are your issues. You made them up, not me. When you get to understand the English language without having to run it through a translator, come talk to me about what you think you hear/read and know.
Originally Posted By: Orac
are because he believes in a different set of religious criteria and so he is always going to clash with you over religion.

I don't clash with religion, I simply see it for what it is. A belief, followed by a lack of credibility in the experience of it's point of reference as a rule. People like yourself, clash with me and what I have to say about them and their religion. C'est la vie


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Originally Posted By: Orac
... TT's issues are because he believes in a different set of religious criteria and so he is always going to clash with you over religion.
Orac, almost all your posts to threads started by me have interesting content, encourage having a dialogue(conversation), are a pleasure to get and to read, thanks. ABOUT: Those from posters who are dogmatic, do not have helpful content and from posters about whom I know zero?

Here is how I read such posts: I scan them briefly. If I do not find anything that grabs my attention, I move on, quickly, to interesting things.

You mention:
Quote:
You still haven't answered my question as to whether you think it's possible to hypnotically treat someone with multiple personality disorder and resolve them back to one personality?
Briefly, tell me what you know about the story of, or history of hypnosis. Have you read anything about the writings and story of the psychiatrist Dr. Milton Erickson. Do a google-search and check his name in WIKIPEDIA.

BTW, are you familiar with the term 'ego state'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego-state_therapy



G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

I don't clash with religion, I simply see it for what it is. A belief, followed by a lack of credibility in the experience of it's point of reference as a rule. People like yourself, clash with me and what I have to say about them and their religion. C'est la vie


I don't clash with you I just see through your vacuous contrarian behaviour which I suspect has something to do with your childhood as that is the most common cause.

Lets face it the only explanatory comment on anything here you have made was to push sale of a book on "Dharma" the rest is just contrarian replies, look at your last responses just in last post

TT=> I would never ... shocked <Analysis> even you realize as true but still must take a counter stance but you do at least joking do it

TT=>Religion is simply belief ... <Analysis>statement of the bleeding obvious
TT=>They (beliefs) emerge, they change, and they fall away ... <Analysis> Most of the major religions (Christians, Islam, Buhdda, Hindu) have not changed much at all if any on the core stuff in written and recorded history. So this is just a contrarian statement with no evidence which is actually a lie.

TT=>UH.. My issues are your issues. You made them up, not me ... <Analysis> Statement of the bleeding obvious YES I IDENTIFIED THE ISSUES but just stating I don't have any issues is what children do. You revert to the behaviour because it gives you a contrarian stance.

TT=>I don't clash with religion ... <Analysis> Lie simple contrarian stance
TT=>I simply see it for what it is. A belief followed by a lack of credibility in the experience of it's point of reference as a rule. ... <Analysis> Justification of lie is plain stupidity because any situation with a GOD puts a human mortal with lack of credibility BY DEFINITION they aren't god.

TT=>People like yourself, clash with me and what I have to say about them and their religion .. <Analysis> Lie I don't clash with you over anything to do with religion I clash because as per my analysis above everything you say is a contrarian behaviour or a lie to support a contrarian stance.


The above analysis is why I clash with you TT nothing to do with religion. Feel free to disagree with my analysis of your statements but at least you should have a firm understanding of my position on you, I can not and do not speak for how others see you.

However I do find it amusing to ponder if your egocentric views are caused from your contrarian personality, or your personality is an extension of your beliefs smile

Last edited by Orac; 01/14/14 01:06 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Briefly, tell me what you know about the story of, or history of hypnosis.


Very little Rev K only what you see in movies and on TV certainly not done any reading on it.


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, are you familiar with the term 'ego state'?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego-state_therapy


I will get back to this in a second I want to discuss ego itself for a minute.


Having come from a communist background where ego was actively discouraged and only conformist behaviour was encouraged I find Western and especially Western psychology views on ego at odds with my view. In some way I see ego-mania diagnosis in many things which are simple behaviour issues gone mad.

This goes back to that original issue of diagnosis of multiple personality order problem because from my vantage point much of Western psychology diagnosis revolving around ego is the same a diagnosis based on the personal bias of Western psychology.

This is the problem I find with disciplines which do not have objective scientific backgrounds.

So I am very skeptical when people start throwing ego around as an excuse or explaination because to me that is a very Western diagnosis and I refer back to how that condition would be diagnosed in a non western country.

I should say there are interesting parallels in homosexuality. Many in the west can not understand Russia's bill banning gay "propaganda" and condemn it but it comes down to the same problem. Many in the old guard in Russia see homosexuality rates increasing and see it as a western disease that is bought about by propaganda and that historically they didn't have these numbers. For me the problem here is the same as the ego issue we have no real data, the gay number may have always been there at exactly the same rate just pushed underground. It is for me an interesting window on the problem of induced personal bias and how that may translate into perception. Myself, I have no real personal view on homosexuality mainly because I worry that my view would be biased and I like my life to be logical as you probably would guess smile

Last edited by Orac; 01/14/14 12:45 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Orac, almost all your posts to threads started by me encourage having a dialogue(conversation) ABOUT: .. posters who are dogmatic, do not have helpful content and from posters about whom I know zero?
This would be gossip.. frown.. but then its easy to turn gossip towards self measure, comparison and the topic of ones self.
How pleasantly ironic.. not only is the rev. the initiator of the topic but also the example for the topic itself. wink



Originally Posted By: Orac


I don't clash with you I just see through your vacuous contrarian behaviour which I suspect has something to do with your childhood as that is the most common cause.


You clash with my behavior as you see and understand it.


Originally Posted By: Orac

Lets face it the only explanatory comment on anything here you have made was to push sale of a book on "Dharma"

Uh, NO. You complained you couldn't get thru translating what I wrote, so I don't think your lack of comprehension or admitting you didn't get thru what I wrote supports your observation. You like making things up to get a rise out of those you don't want to get along with.
Probably a childhood thing, since that is where that kind of thing begins. whistle


Originally Posted By: Orac
even you realize as true but still must take a counter stance but you do at least joking do it.
Hard to take serious something that doesn't have any truth behind it (even tho you claim it has truth), or someone who simply isn't interested.


Originally Posted By: Orac
Most of the major religions (Christians, Islam, Buhdda, Hindu) have not changed much at all if any on the core stuff in written and recorded history. So this is just a contrarian statement with no evidence which is actually a lie.

The evidence is in the way religionists interpret dogma. Churches are born and dissolve with changing interpretations of the written word.



Originally Posted By: Orac
Statement of the bleeding obvious YES I IDENTIFIED THE ISSUES but just stating I don't have any issues is what children do. You revert to the behaviour because it gives you a contrarian stance.

No I take the stand that your problems (as identified) are not something I decide to place upon myself, regardless of your god like authority to testify in behalf of the issues you wish to identify with.



Originally Posted By: Orac
Lie simple contrarian stance.
No fact. Religion does not cause me to lose sleep nor to feel stress. It has it's place just like coloring books in preschool.



Originally Posted By: Orac
Justification of lie is plain stupidity because any situation with a GOD puts a human mortal with lack of credibility BY DEFINITION they aren't god.

You have defined God? sick Ooh.. please elaborate! smile



Originally Posted By: Orac
Lie I don't clash with you over anything to do with religion I clash because as per my analysis above everything you say is a contrarian behaviour or a lie to support a contrarian stance.

You just supported my statement that you clash with me because of what I say about you and religion. For whatever reason you want to give for clashing with me, it supports my statement and isn't a lie..



Originally Posted By: Orac

The above analysis is why I clash with you TT nothing to do with religion. Feel free to disagree with my analysis of your statements but at least you should have a firm understanding of my position on you, I can not and do not speak for how others see you.

Wasn't addressing you as any other. What you confuse yourself with in this conversation is that you contradict yourself and accuse me of what you display as an attitude towards those you have no control over and those you have issues with.



Originally Posted By: Orac

However I do find it amusing to ponder if your egocentric views are caused from your contrarian personality, or your personality is an extension of your beliefs smile

Guess without really getting to know me or having mastered the English language, as well as not taking the time to translate the conversations, nothing you have decided is a sure thing. Perhaps you should take a more scientific approach and summon a peer review? cool




I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
If you only knew how much I enjoyed that ... Sorry TT you aren't special I really understand you and that really gets under your skin doesn't it smile

Human nature is so predictable at times, Rev K would have responded in a much different way but I am pretty sure I can predict it as well.

There is probably one small thing to correct

TT => You have defined God? sick Ooh.. please elaborate! smile

No actually I defined what isn't god, perhaps the sentence didn't translate correct. This follows back to the joke above with Rev K with humans assuming they know the will of god. So the meaning of the sentence was supposed to be humans will always lack understanding and credibility of God because they aren't a god. I am sorry if it did not translate that way.

Last edited by Orac; 01/14/14 05:44 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
Originally Posted By: Orac
I am sorry if it did not translate that way.
No need to apologize.. I've recognized the discrepancies in your lack of comprehension in the English language and the passive aggressive attempts to compensate for the handicap..
As you say, "Human Nature is so predictable"
It's all good.

By the way... The idea that one can define what is not God (limiting God), would have to be supported by the idea of what God is (proof). cool


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Woot ... passive aggressive ... wait up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior

Nah stuff that with you I am aggressive aggressive because I don't respect you enough to bother with the passive bit. I think you need to realize I only tone it down because Rev K will frown badly and chastise the blunt Orac and I respect him smile

I predict I am going to get a lecture from Rev K on tolerance any second now.

Last edited by Orac; 01/15/14 10:30 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
I would agree that you enter your conversations with a personal vigor, and that you try to filter your responses within the boundaries of democratic definition, regardless of whether your opinion is democratic or peer oriented. (not very scientific... after having repeatedly defended the parameters of opinion and definition as being subject to scientific validation)

In other words you define your principals within the box of scientific rule, but allow your emotional opinion to rule the conflagration of Ad-hominems you use to arrange the box outside of a democratic bid.

Happy (personal) Jihad wink

Love this topic by the way.. It's a self demonstrating topic! grin

Oh, and I doubt the rev would scold you..He's been your number one cheer leader when it comes to addressing my posts.
(Would love to see him in the outfit and with pom poms)

You seem only to be absent of a cheer leader while flaming Paul... So sad. frown


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Yep you have been measured and boxed smile

Don't say I am not an equal opportunity flamer, I will flame dropkicks of any persuasion .. I would hate to be discriminatory.

Somehow I really can't see Rev K being okay with my behaviour but on the plus side I do have something to repent, oh wait not sure if they repent in Rev K's religion smile

In my defense I don't consider internet trolls/drop-kicks human I place then as a separate classification just above bacteria on the life hierarchy tree.

Last edited by Orac; 01/15/14 04:43 PM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
Originally Posted By: Orac

In my defense I don't consider internet trolls/drop-kicks human I place then as a separate classification just above bacteria on the life hierarchy tree.

obviously in a different category than flamers and jihadists.. grin

And yes the boxing thing was a given.. The predictability factor don'tcha know.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

obviously in a different category than flamers and jihadists.. grin


Clearly because they are doing something active about an argument not trying to bore everyone to death. The jihadists I deduct tree levels because they resorted to physical violence.


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
Originally Posted By: Orac
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

obviously in a different category than flamers and jihadists.. grin


Clearly because they are doing something active about an argument not trying to bore everyone to death. The jihadists I deduct tree levels because they resorted to physical violence.


Flaming is a form of verbal abuse (violence). A Jihadist would often present a verbal segue as the necessary step toward the act of physical violence (also seen as morally righteous). Often the verbal reaction and subsequent physical abuse is a sign that psychologically one is unable to meet the world with the intellect but instead meets it with the emotions and fear. What one might call a discussion another might call an argument. What one might call dialogue, another might call a discussion inclusive of personal opinion, points of disagreement and the debate of principal, value and point of reference.

When a fanatic takes a position to strip another of their right to free speech and to condemn or demoralize them because of a personal belief, it is often to make a statement towards the benefit of others, and yet they are often blind to any other perspective.

Perhaps you would like to save the world from those you make it your personal responsibility to attack, but maybe you also go unrewarded for your efforts when those you seek to protect have no investment in that which you invest yourself. whistle

I find it odd that you speak to being a practitioner of democratic process in the order of things and as authority, and yet act on your own accord and without peer review and approval to decide what is best for others.

The reverend likes to place first judgment on credentials. He assumes little value in a person who doesn't present credentials that speak to the worth of a man. I think that is an interesting trait of the ego and even more interesting that a man who claims the title of reverend would take such a position, to value or devalue a man according to the clothes he wears and the title he carries to validate himself.
He likes to put himself at a top level in and amongst those with title and history. (like the pharisees who challenged Jesus the son of a carpenter)

Just out of curiosity.. and since you like to create these levels of worth when it comes to putting things in category and box..

Where do you put yourself?


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
ROFL nice try TT smile

Perhaps start a thread on the garbage and we can discuss it but I am not going to derail Rev's thread to have a dropkick contrarian argument with you.

Last edited by Orac; 01/16/14 01:26 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,249
Originally Posted By: Orac
ROFL nice try TT smile

Perhaps start a thread on the garbage and we can discuss it but I am not going to derail Rev's thread to have a dropkick contrarian argument with you.


Don't have to start anything..
This is ongoing, and definitely "ON TOPIC" cool

I know you are busy, flaming.. running back and forth between subjects and doing the righteous thing for the benefit of others. Paul seems to be your main concern and I probably fall somewhere at sublevel..

So perhaps you could answer my question.

What level do you put yourself at when measuring the worth of mankind? How does science judge a man other than to present the inclinations of personal opinion and democratic rule?

What else is ego?


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
O
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,819
Sorry you will have to do it with yourself then, I don't do social science dribble arguments, they won't let me experiment and cut peoples brains out to see what they really think and how personal perception really works.

I was sort of at that point with DID with Rev K anyhow, so unless someone has something interesting to say I will leave you all to it.


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact UsokW
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5