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#50485 - 12/02/13 02:57 AM Energy from the sky?
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Phys.Org:Startup has plans for power plants in sky with drones
Short description. The plan is to fly unmanned drones at around 50,000 feet (15 km) to harvest wind and solar energy. Each drone would generate 50 kW of energy more than it would use to keep airborne. The energy would be wirelessly transmitted to the ground. Exactly what that means isn't clear to me.

This one sound like pie in the sky. (OK, that's enough puns). The big problem as I see it would be to keep the beams from the drones centered on the receivers. If the beam is narrow enough 50 kW is enough to cause some serious heating if it went off track. If it uses RF keeping the beam width down is also a problem. With a 1/2 degree beam width the 3 dB beam width would be about 800 feet. A laser might be a better choice, but a 100 kW laser might be kind of unhandy. I chose 100 kW so there would be a safety factor. Anyway I feel there are a number of concerns with getting this system off the ground. (OK, I didn't even see that one coming.)

If they can make it work it could be a very attractive energy source.

Bill Gill
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C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#50486 - 12/02/13 03:11 PM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
they might not use light.

http://phys.org/news/2013-02-wireless-power-technology-high-capacity.html

Quote:
The Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) and the Korea Railroad Research Institute (KRRI) have developed a wireless power transfer technology that can be applied to high capacity transportation systems such as railways, harbor freight, and airport transportation and logistics. The technology supplies 60 kHz and 180 kW of power remotely to transport vehicles at a stable, constant rate.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-02-wireless-power-technology-high-capacity.html#jCp


the U.S. threw wireless energy technology in the trash because
of an inability to rake in profit from it when Tesla first introduced it , now it looks as if the U.S. in all its wisdom
will be sucking the hind tit yet again because of greed.

this will fail , if it ever makes it into production or before
simply because of the drone terrorist that will be attacking any form of economic progress that is operated by the western world as they fly over terrorist locations around the world.

in order for this to work the energy gathering drones would need to have drone fighter escorts in the drone terrorist locations , and for each fighter drone that is shot down there will be a high cost to replace it , also fighter drone air bases would need to be built throughout the world in the vicinity of these high threat areas for maintenance and resupply needs.

all of the cost associated with this idea would outweigh any benefit.














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3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#50487 - 12/02/13 05:51 PM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
My understanding was that the drones would fly a holding pattern over the area where the receivers were located. They wouldn't be flying in other countries air space.

I don't think that transmitting 60 Hz wirelessly would be very feasible at a range of 50,000 feet.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#50491 - 12/03/13 06:28 AM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
My understanding was that the drones would fly a holding pattern over the area where the receivers were located. They wouldn't be flying in other countries air space.


then where does the feasibility of flying come into play when you could just stick some solar panels and wind turbines on the ground?

I was thinking the drones would be flying around the earth
staying in the sunlit portions because they are there to capture solar energy.

and why would 60 kHz @ 50,000 ft be a problem?

theres no curvature of the earth to worry about.

I can tell that this idea could be workable , but the problem
is relations , and politics of course , those who dont like the west would have a heyday with this type of
( power supply ) , now if they could put them out of reach of
the terrorist then it just might work until the terrorist can
gain access to space vehicles.



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#50495 - 12/03/13 02:38 PM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I admit to one slight error, I said 60 Hz, when the quote you gave was 60 kHz. But the wavelength for 60 kHz is 5 km. Building efficient antennas for that might be difficult. That is building efficient directional antennas would be difficult. A directional antenna needs to be at least a quarter wavelength, and that isn't very directional. A quarter wave antenna basically has a figure 8 antenna pattern. For comparison I point to your basic outdoor TV antenna. The low end is at 54 MHz and the elements run something like 3 feet wide. For power transmission over any distance you would need highly directional antennas, which implies antennas many wavelengths in diameter, that is many km in diameter.

Having said that I have a 60 kHz receiver on my wrist. It is in a radio controlled watch that is synchronized to a 60 kHz time and frequency signal transmitted by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) in Boulder Colorado. I am rather amazed that it works at that size. They have similar systems in Europe and Japan.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#50499 - 12/04/13 04:41 PM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
I guess you didnt read the article I posted so I will post a few
excerpts from it for our dear readers.

Quote:
KAIST and KRRI today successfully showcased the wireless power transfer technology to the public by testing it on the railroad tracks at Osong Station in Korea. Originally, this technology was developed as part of an electric vehicle system introduced by KAIST in 2011 known as the On-line Electric Vehicle (OLEV).

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-02-wireless-power-technology-high-capacity.html#jCp


its a vehicle like a car , it doesn't have a antenna that is several miles in diameter !

it uses a shaped magnetic field resonance to transmit power.





Quote:
OLEV does not need to be parked at a charging station to have a fully powered battery. It gets charged while running, idling, and parking, enabling a reduction in size of the reserve battery down to one-fifth of the battery on board a regular electric car. The initial models of OLEV, a bus and a tram, receive 20 kHz and 100 kW power at an 85% transmission efficiency rate while maintaining a 20cm air gap between the underbody of vehicle and the road surface. OLEV complies with the national and international standards of 62.5 mG, a safety net for electromagnetic fields. In July 2013, for the first time since its development, OLEV will run on a regular road, an inner city route in the city of Gumi, requiring 40 minutes of driving each way.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-02-wireless-power-technology-high-capacity.html#jCp


heres another article showing the vehicles that are actually
being powered wirelessly.

Quote:
OLEV is a pure electric vehicle, receiving electric power wirelessly via magnetic field from the road surface, under which power strips are buried. OLEV charges as it moves, thus no need of additional time and space for recharging.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-12-kaist-successful-green-technology.html#jCp


granted in the above article the wireless transmission is only a meter or so in distance from the road to the powered vehicle, nonetheless , it is still wireless power transmission.

but the original article says.

ie...

Quote:
wireless power transfer technology that can be applied to high capacity transportation systems such as railways, harbor freight, and airport transportation and logistics.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-02-wireless-power-technology-high-capacity.html#jCp






_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#50500 - 12/04/13 05:40 PM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
My understanding was that the drones would fly a holding pattern over the area where the receivers were located. They wouldn't be flying in other countries air space.

I don't think that transmitting 60 Hz wirelessly would be very feasible at a range of 50,000 feet.

Bill Gill


anyway , I found the detailed version of the article.

http://www.gizmag.com/new-wave-energy-creates-aerial-power-plants/29849/

the link was on the page that you linked to.

Quote:
The patent-pending technology aims to have drone networks hover in the sky harvesting both solar and wind power, while moving about at low speeds to keep track of the sun. The drones will operate at high altitudes where the winds are more stable and there's minimal chance of weather patterns or aircraft interfering with them.



Quote:
Each 20 x 20 m (65 x 65 ft) drone will have four rotors, multiple wind turbines and a flat base for generating solar power. It'll be able to power itself with the harvested energy and generate an additional 50 kW that can be transmitted wirelessly to the ground. Rectenna arrays installed inland or on offshore installations would receive the electromagnetic waves and convert them into usable power.


so, it seems that I was right, the drones will be following the sun , and they will be using magnetic waves to transmit the power.

Quote:
or on offshore installations


Quote:
"The time for a response in times of natural disaster depends on the drone's current location and flight speed once the final form is specified,"


Quote:
The company aims to make use of the unpopulated airspace over the Atlantic, Indian or Pacific Ocean first. Burdett states that New Wave Energy will be able to deliver energy around the clock to many different parts of the world using solar, wind, thermoelectrics, infrared and visible spectrum rectennas.


this tells me that they will not be bound to any geographical
location.

they are mobile , some or all of the drones can be diverted to areas where electricity is needed in an emergency.

it also tells me that ships could receive power from the drones.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#50509 - 12/06/13 10:16 AM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: Bill]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's a power plant in the sky. How do they propose getting those drones up there in the first place? That would seem to be a little difficult.
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#50512 - 12/06/13 02:51 PM Re: Energy from the sky? [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Amaranth Rose II
It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's a power plant in the sky. How do they propose getting those drones up there in the first place? That would seem to be a little difficult.

I assume they take off like a helicopter. They would be up there for long periods, but they would still have to be brought down for servicing periodically. They might have special air ports for them to fly from. There would need to be some ground control station to make sure they are in the right places and to monitor their condition so they could be serviced as required.

Bill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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