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#50374 - 11/15/13 12:00 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
I have no intention of wasting more time on this .... I have told you a number of times I don't do classic physics arguments it's all wrong anyhow. The second part of that is you don't want to learn as you say "I don't want to learn you ORAC", you are happy with your level of science so be it.

I have given you what help I can, I know you believe you are right ... so go out an prove it I explained and helped with how.


Just please remember you have a wife and child and a job keep that in your mind at all times over the next few years.


You are unfortunately going to be very disappointed I suspect and most likely will get blocked from all the really good science sites. I know why they will do it but I hope you don't get bitter about it and think it is all a conspiracy ... science has actually been reasonably kind to you.


I understand you don't know why I say all that but all I can do is ask you to study more and be harder on your own ideas than you are currently being ... in science fooling oneself is the easiest thing to do.


I really do wish you well who knows you may be able to one day say that you showed ORAC to be a complete idiot who knows nothing of physics. If however I am right and in a few years from now come back and I will show you why no one took you seriously.


God speed and good luck on your journey BUT NEVER FORGET YOU HAVE A WIFE AND DAUGHTER and be good to then first and foremost.


Edited by Orac (11/15/13 12:23 PM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
.
#50375 - 11/15/13 12:26 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
I have no intention of wasting more time on this .... I have told you a number of times I don't do classic physics arguments it's all wrong anyhow.

DOPPLER EFECTE FOR LIGHT + MAROSZ DISCOVERY


source ---> v1 .......R...... Sensor----> v2


v1 = v2 = V

we not register RED/BLUE

What will register sensor ? ( IVERTED SQUARE LAW)

Sensor will register brightness
brightness will be function R distance and V and power of the source and size of the source !!!




if I not made mistake astronomers can use below functions



YOU WANT TO BUILD QUANTUM COMPUTER ? YOU NEED KNOW PERFECT Hz of waves and relation to constant V

constant V is changing wave Hz
constant V Is inside athom
constant V info will help You "keep spin " in normal temp

You like use microscopes or other optics
( You want to calibrate )
You want to build perfect photocamera ( zero deformation )

You like doube slits experiment ? You want to check ?



Edited by newton (11/15/13 12:32 PM)

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#50376 - 11/15/13 12:56 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
above Orac = typical exaple
how people NOT STUDY DISCOVERY



1 this man is crayzy he must go sleep

2 we have have in books all what he Discoveried ( nothing new )


3 silent .... it is not my bussnes to support true for free
4 silent ....


5 50 years after Author Die ...

somone open in web and find similar to my idea

... if he live in country where exist cyvilisation and he have many contacts / friends from universities

... if his father has money( Tesla invented radio not Marconi )


what is next step ... prepare good mathemtaic equations
18 000 people in cern will very hard work and made experiment

AND BINGO NOBEL for HIGS

Who was author ?
Who schould get Nobel ? ( 18 000 people in CERN )
Real Athor
or Mathematica and Equations ?

in my link ( below )
I showed many patents that can save many people lives
and what ?

BMW INOVATION CENTER --> we not undrstand how Your UP sky patent Work
( FORD - nice light please try secound market )

http://tesla4.blogspot.com

Thank You for not read my posts ( firemans / policemans can die !!! !
Thank You for not support my discovery we no need
New we like old confirmed bad theories !!!

Leonardo , Copernic , Mach , M...sz ?







Edited by newton (11/15/13 01:03 PM)

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#50378 - 11/15/13 02:51 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Rev K gave examples above of people with little education who made a difference in science. Edison was another who off limited education made his mark.

How did they do it ... they listened to arguments against them and worked slowly thru them methodically and for some of them it took years.

See even in your response above it has what we call bad attitude

Maciej Marosz only learns his way or no way.

Look back up above that

Copernic stoped the SUN / Marosz Space Time

Do you really think a serious scientist is going to very impressed by that ... are you trying to offside anyone involved in science before you even say a word.

That's an egotistical thing which shows for some reason you think you are smarter than everyone else .. it only takes a few sentences to work out you aren't.


I have seen the interactions of you with science sites you rarely listen to what they are actually trying to tell you.

Look at your exchange with Andy here

http://www.network54.com/Forum/741048/thread/1367990213/last-1368123331/Winter+and+Summer+(+Doppler+and+Marosz+)+Red-BLue+%2B+LUMENS+per+Steradian

Andy wasted time for you talking to real scientist who gave him one of the real problems for you in classic physics.

He sort of explained you didn't have the doppler right I know why he can't explain that QM problem again. He did however get the next bit right the Planck satellite mission and all it's data says you are wrong.

So what did you do with that objection you ignored it smile

Sorry Maciej Marosz when someone has a problem that big with your theory you analyze your theory against the complaint and see if it's possible you are wrong. If you don't understand it you ask for help to do it .. what you don't do is ignore it.


So lets go to this exchange with primordial
http://cs.astronomy.com/asy/news/f/20/t/56265.aspx

Again he gave you a serious problem which you just ignore. I don't think you even tried to understand what he was saying from your responses and I think he worked that out and stopped talking to you.


What everyone is telling you is these arguments are old like hundreds of years old and you need to be aware science has long since argued it's way thru them. As such you are going to have to expect there will be objections which you can't just ignore draw more pictures and hope it will all go away.


Your exchange here didn't go much better

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=43880

You tried to tell a scientist something that was blatantly like stupidly blatantly wrong what did you think was going to happen?


I am not doing this to be mean I am showing you that the biggest problem with Maciej Marosz theory at the moment is Maciej Marosz's attitude.


You can't act like that Maciej Marosz you may think you are smart but compared to these people you are not smart

Robittybob1 in the link at the bottom explains the problem
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=43880

=>If you listen to his YouTube videos you get a better idea what he is on about. I tell him where he is wrong, but I wouldn't say he is listening to me either.

People have gone out of there way to listen to what you have to say in the samples above I count 5 people who actually seriously looked at your ideas so if you count me 6.

Six people spent time working thru your picture which wasn't easy and we all think there is a problem and you won't even discuss them you ignore them or worse start insulting them.

That is why I have no intention of going any further with you.

People have given you a reasonable chance to act in a respectful manner given they are spending time on this stuff for free and you are asking for there help and expertise.

When they try and help Maciej Marosz attitude kicks in.

So there you have my answer ... I waste no more time on Maciej Marosz .


Edited by Orac (11/15/13 02:55 PM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50380 - 11/15/13 07:47 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
That's an egotistical

YES - Not Exist many people who are able feel this what I alone without lab I take camera and I saw it after three days fight !!!


All what You see In my Page = egoistcal !
http://tesla4.blogspot.com


How many lives save my patents ?
( please ask policemans and firemans and people who work on Highway )

Do You saw my version of the robot for bomb ?

Do You saw AIR FLY TOOLS ?

ART is for each of us ...

I'm sorry but to create You pay huge prize for fly !!! Nobody understand how feel You during create ...and how feel You three day later ...

I want to fly I showed You above very good facts for research play and have fun drink VODKA and make drawings ...

Someone in past ask Picasso : What is the different between ART and simple paint ( Art = That You want to sale this what is Your own - You not painting nothing what people want to buy )


Edited by newton (11/15/13 07:52 PM)

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#50381 - 11/15/13 07:57 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
IF I WILL LIVE AND I WILL SEE THAT SOMONE FROM CAMBRIDGE or OTHER UNIVERSITY copied MY IDEA

I will doo all to show that is COPY ( please keep this forum )




Edited by newton (11/15/13 08:01 PM)

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#50382 - 11/15/13 08:13 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209




Inverted square Law ( Old Greece camera obscura )
J.Bradley berration 1730
Doppler 1842
TOLMAN 1930


2012 Marosz Michelson Morley ( brightness of beam version )
- new compass
- new navigation type ( Internal velocity system )
- new system for airplane velocity
- additional efect for doppler ( constant motion Intensity )
- additional efect for doppler ( Winter Summer on the Earth 66.66 it is not only one reason )

- conastant motion and gravitation mass different
( explain that Einstein can not put inertia mass = gravtation mass ) !!! it works not only for huge speed >G

m----R------M -----> 30 km/s
m----R------M ----------------> 220 km/s

mass m not feel the same gravitation reason is longer apparent distance to mass M also R is important for that efect ( please compare light to gravitation ----INTESITY PROBLEM )

to prove above I can use facts that I showed ( all is in books)


SPECULATION
( I can not proved right now by arguments from books but Mach's Supersonic model is very open IDEA )

- Perpetuum motion first type Idea explain ( body faster than own gravitation ) dark mattery problem ,
- Marosz's Aether self EM Background model







Edited by newton (11/15/13 08:20 PM)

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#50383 - 11/15/13 08:36 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
LIGHT >>>> MEDIUM ---- sensor

One Photon Enery Porion PROBLEM


Originally Posted By: newton

can we evaluate efficiency ?


Orac
It is 100% efficient something you can't have in classic physics smile



Originally Posted By: newton

how many photon enerrgy will be exchange to work ?


Orac
One


Originally Posted By: newton
Can we warm medium by light ?


Of coarse you can haven't you ever sat out in the sun to warm yourself .. your skin is a media to light smile


THANK YOU FOR HELP ORAC !!!

camera 1 ---R---- BULB ---R--- camera 2 >>> 30 km/s

How many energy light will lost for medium ?
cam1 and cam 2 ?
What if cam 1 and cam 2 will be perpendicular to 30 km/s ?

Where is BULB's) apparent position during camera 1 register signal ?

Where is BULB's) apparent position during camera 2 register the same signal ?


Top
#50384 - 11/15/13 08:42 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
DEAR ORAC PLEASE NOT USE MY OLD LINKS
IT IS NOT NICE SCIENCE METHOD !!!



In past I wrote many stupid words it is natural for somone who read and learn ( You don't know who are people taht You use name and what they knew )

above You have problem and Your ansvers about medium
and question how much energy lost light in medium !

In vacuum also not exist ZERO LOST not exist machine that can transport energy and have zero lost !



Edited by newton (11/15/13 08:44 PM)

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#50385 - 11/16/13 02:59 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: newton
DEAR ORAC PLEASE NOT USE MY OLD LINKS
IT IS NOT NICE SCIENCE METHOD !!!



As I said I am not doing this to be mean but to show you your biggest problem.


Originally Posted By: newton

In past I wrote many stupid words it is natural for somone who read and learn ( You don't know who are people taht You use name and what they knew )


Think hard here and consider what you just said right then.

Is it possible you still haven't leant enough and are still saying things that are very silly and sometime in the future you will look at what you said here like you consider what you said in those links.

How do you know you have learnt enough and are not still being silly?

Maciej Marosz the easiest person to fool is yourself.


Edited by Orac (11/16/13 03:39 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#50386 - 11/16/13 03:38 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Here is your problem you are insisting I am wrong so I am not going to argue I want you to work it out

Light from our sun does not make it 1000m down in the ocean

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/light_travel.html

Quote:

Sunlight entering the water may travel about 1,000 meters (3,280 feet) into the ocean under the right conditions, but there is rarely any significant light beyond 200 meters (656 feet).


Star light you see from a star you see at night from a similar sort of sun is 1 billion light years away

So it has travelled 1 000 000 000 years x 365 days * 24 hrs * 60 min * 60 sec * 3E8 speed of light in space

Which is 9,460,800,000,000,000,000,000,000 meters

Attenuation is the classic physics name for energy lost in a media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuation)

Quote:

In physics, attenuation (in some contexts also called extinction) is the gradual loss in intensity of any kind of flux through a medium. For instance, sunlight is attenuated by dark glasses, X-rays are attenuated by lead, and light and sound are attenuated by water.


Calculated the attenuation of space assuming it is a media for me please?

We will assume the light could go no further for simplicity and 1 billion light years in space = 1000m in water for light.

So calculate away please you have all the facts you need, if space were a media and it attenuated you then have a number and units?

So you have a simple problem you are asked to solve lets see if you answer it or post your usual dropkick stupid pictures... I have money on the later.


Edited by Orac (11/16/13 04:21 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#50388 - 11/16/13 07:54 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
ORAC
Look at your exchange with Andy here


http://www.network54.com/Forum/741048/th...S+per+Steradian


His expert try explain what is it Doppler RED

"please ask Andy about help You will see milions links about paranolrmal behevior !"

*****************************************************
Marosz

source --->V1 ......R.......sensor ----> V1

V1 = V1
He had nice expert I ask about constant the same motion
and he give me links about red shift ( and many links without sense to my problem )

Orac please read links that You showing what did you lern

1930 Tolman surface brightness test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolman_surface_brightness_test



**********************************************************

****************************************

AS I told You please use above posts on this forum
right now i know that I can not make many posts in many place I must use one two froum max ( quality of the post I'm tired )




Edited by newton (11/16/13 08:00 AM)

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#50389 - 11/16/13 09:21 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Not discussing that until you can do one task you are asked to do .. you insist I am wrong let me show you the problem.

I am not interested in your problem at the moment.

If you can answer one question you get to ask one question.

Calculate the efficiency of space per meter.


You say you are a process engineer you must know how to calculate the efficiency per meter ... high school children could do that.


Energy E leaves point (a) it travels x meters where it stops at point (b).


A ------------- x meters ---------------- B


What is the loss per meter ... not a hard question?


Edited by Orac (11/16/13 09:22 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#50390 - 11/16/13 09:24 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
ORAC huge logic person ?

Laser Hz 1/128 000 000
Light during time T made distance "a " ( in rocket vacuum )



TIME T
How many mm made ROCKET = HOW MANY NEW POSITIONS HAD LASER

( apparent positions 1..2..3..4 ) ?


LASER's beam shape problem ? Beam = small part of 3d Ball



Can We use two slits before opposite rocket's wall ?

EXIST ZERO MOTION and NOT ZERO MOTION ? ( 1905)

( how many light and how big area 1730 J. Bradley- aberration)

PEOPLE ARE TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND ABOVE ?

BELOW MORE HARDER TO UNDERTTAND TEST !!!




USA invest 300 000 000 USD PUBLIC MONEY

http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/

They can invest next 300 000 000 USD and
never find problem that not exist






Edited by newton (11/16/13 09:39 AM)

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#50391 - 11/16/13 09:56 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
I have given you a simple problem for you to learn something.

Answer the problem if you do not know how to do the calculation say so and I will show you.

You can't avoid and deflect to some other problem


YOU NEED TO LEARN ... SO LEARN


STOP ACTING LIKE A MENTAL RETARD

AS THIS IS MY THREAD .. ANSWER THE QUESTION OR LEAVE.

You have your own threads this one belongs to me standard forum rules I started it ... so what I want to discuss is what gets discussed.

I have given you a choice and I will ask the moderator to ban any further posts not about what I want to discuss.

It is a democracy you want to discuss something different go make you own thread and you can control what gets discussed.


Edited by Orac (11/16/13 10:17 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#50392 - 11/16/13 11:10 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
ORAC
I have given you a simple problem for you to learn something.


ORAC
are You able use "simple problem" that You given me ?
PLEASE PREPARE SIMILAR TO MY DRAWING
PLEASE EXPLAIN ABOVE SITUATION ( FACTS ... please Mr Marosz it is not work because it will be look like this ...)

I'm idiot ? You can or not proove my mistake ?

How old are You ? please use books

for me ( simple Engineer Poland )to evaluate above
we need

Doppler ,
Inverted square law,
1730 J Bradley ,
1930 Tolman brightness test )

Please destroy my model
( You graduate moore nice school I'm only engineer smile ?

let me help You start ...( they all like start like below)

GPS system works so Einsten works !!!
Yeeeee. Einstein was great ... ( good point for start speak )

Next argument
MArosz You are Idiot and You not understand mathematic
I would like to help people like You please study mathemtic
You have nice imagination but Einstein all described

I waiting here smile ...
ask friends ... smile other "idiots" like me ...
ASK mr ANDY and his expert smile
look on my old links ...
We can have many fan here !! anyone want some Popcorn .. !!!

the forum is sponsored by LIGO project
general Investor 300 000 000 USD
for EINSTEIN SRT check


Edited by newton (11/16/13 11:31 AM)

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#50393 - 11/16/13 11:34 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
As this has degenerated into what I suspected you are either too ashamed or have not the education to be able to do a simple efficiency calculation.

I gave you a chance that I could teach you at least that all you had to do was ask


As callian put it on the other forum

Quote:

Marosz, wi&#281;c mo&#380;na spodziewa&#263; si&#281; naprawd&#281; by&#263; zatrudniony przez nikogo, z tym du&#380;o g&#322;upoty?



Now has this has degenerated into a name calling exercise I suggest we just not communicate.


Edited by Orac (11/16/13 11:41 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#50394 - 11/16/13 11:44 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
ORAC PLEASE SOLVE BELOW BROBLEM ?

Laser Hz 1/128 000 000
Light during time T made distance "a " ( in rocket vacuum )



TIME T
How many mm made ROCKET = HOW MANY NEW POSITIONS HAD LASER

[b]T = 1/ 300 000 sec. ,Vo= 30 km/s rocket's wide 1000 m [/size]


above real nombers TEACH ME PLEASE !!!
I CAN NOT FIND HOW MANY LINES WILL REGISTER SENSORS on ROCKET'S WALL


1930 Tolman Brightness Test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolman_surface_brightness_test

( apparent positions and bulb in space 1..2..3..4 ) ?[/b]


Below Rocket has got two arms at the end of each arm we have source of signal (source is sending electromagnetic waves - for example Edison's Bulb )





ORAC DO YOU KNOW PHYSICS (1905 )

EXIST ZERO MOTION respect to light ? ( 1905)

PEOPLE ARE TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND ABOVE ?
WHY THEY LIKE BELOW MORE HARDER TO UNDERTTAND TEST !



USA invest 300 000 000 USD PUBLIC MONEY

http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/

They can invest next 300 000 000 USD and
They will never find problem that not exist






Edited by newton (11/16/13 11:49 AM)

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#50395 - 11/16/13 11:52 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Rose as per my email to you could you please delete this thread there is nothing useful in it as we have just a troll which is what I have suspected for some time.

It serves no purpose and it may send a subtle message to the troll
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#50396 - 11/16/13 12:00 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
ABOVE POST = ZERO NEW THEORY

Maciej Marosz author showed only how cooperate

Inverted Square Law
1730 James Bradey ( aberration )
1842 Doppler
1930 Tolman brightness Test

I showed above zero my own Theory ORAC not like read books from secoundary school ( he need repeat ) !!!

How I started read about above facts ?

in 2012 I made in home test ( nobody trust my idea )

camera1 ---- R-----BULB ------R -----Camera2 >>>>>30 km/s

camera 1 in my test in home registered more higher brightness of picture - camera 2 registered more darkness brightness of picture

Without cooperation and more precision test We can not eliminate all problems that can be important for my test.

Mr Orac
Was first person who informed me about Medium Problems
Medium in my opinion can give different resistance to
light ( light lost more energy during trip to camera 2

Light >>> medium ---> 30 km/s <<< Light

camera1 ---- R-----BULB ------R -----Camera2 >>>>>30 km/s

Medium can be also electric wire

El Energy >>> ......wire ......<<< El Energy ---> 30 km/s

We can repeat my test in electric version and measure resistance problem. Electrons has got mass m. Wire's resistance in my opinion has got relation with direction and arrow 30 km/s velocity / 220 km/s ... and XX? km/s ...

XX? - nobody in past made similar test for Earth

Below I present not cofirmed Idea that can be evaluate by electric wire test ( electron has got mass m )

Electrons position in universe ?
( If Erth is moving = electric wire and electrons inside wire have got kinetic energy )

Electric energy must make Work opposite to electron mass m inertia . We can change sign ( +/ - ) and ( -/+)

Can we compare INERTIA resistance to electric resistance ?

to evaluate below situation and recognize symetry and asymetry situation please use classical mechanic :

m = 1kg
Vo = 1m/s respect to virtual zero point ?

ZERO POINT ? it is LOCAL apparent Earth's position
shotr time before start electric test
in my above posts I use point 1..2...3...4...


How many energy cost ?

stop mass m <----- mass

m ------> rise up velocity mass m

to change m velocity from 1m/s to zero we need use 1/2 Joul
to change m velocity from 1m/s to 2m/s we need use 3/2 Joul

Water always goes from moutains to sea level ?
Where are mountain and where is sea level ?
Airpreasure works similar like water !!!

ELECTRIC TEST IDEA ( rocket = Earth )



MASS M POSITION IN THE UNIVERS ( KINETIC ENERGY )

For somone who not read my two three above post below Ytube will loks like simple mistake ( sec school level Idiot )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HWsvZdMBek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpgZJmbkAmA



Br Maciej Marian Marosz
Poland 2013



Edited by newton (11/16/13 12:39 PM)

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