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#50187 - 10/31/13 12:46 AM LUX says no to most dark matter
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Well it is a very subdued night in physics central with most just scratching there heads after the LUX report on dark matter.

From the detector and apparatus side LUX is operating at nearly twenty times the sensitivity of it's nearest competitor. It's calibrations and backgrounds are a spectacular achievement to those dedicated scientists who worked on the system.

Most expected it to see something for most types of dark matter the counts at this level should have been thousands of events instead LUX saw exactly 2.4 events which is more or less it's background sensitivity.

That means it has ruled out a lot of weakly interacting Dark Matter candidates (WIMPS) and light candidates from most popular theories.

I have no heard from any scientists that doubt the results because of the backgrounds that it is showing so most are factoring in a NULL result for dark matter.

Edit: The paper is out now
http://luxdarkmatter.org/papers/LUX_First_Results_2013.pdf

So we are left with either Dark Matter being very dark and hardly interacting with matter at all or it doesn't exist and both are a little unsettling to science.

Very dark matter with lack of any sort of interaction with matter means it is going to be very hard to do any sort of experiments at least with the limit of science at the moment.

On the other side if there is no dark matter then we need to mix up what we know exists in some form of Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) and get a consistent theory. Almost every attempt at doing this so far has been less than successful.

You will get the usual nutcases that claim this shows there xyz crackpot stupidity is thus validated but the reality is LUX signed a death note to most of the testable most likely to be able to tested theories. In that sense the lunatics win because no theory left is going to be testable for a good many years unless we get a physics break through.

I guess it was too much to hope for a Higgs and Dark matter resolution within a short timespan but it would have been nice.

So there you have it ... roll out your theories that have completely Dark Matter or no Dark matter at all none of which can be tested anytime soon and try and convince people that yours is the best answer laugh

I see a few of the bloggers have put there thoughts up ... the usual suspects
http://resonaances.blogspot.com.au/
http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/lux_no_dark_matter_sensitive_direct_search-123473
http://motls.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/dark-matter-wars-are-over-lux-safely.htm


Edited by Orac (10/31/13 01:00 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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.
#50188 - 10/31/13 02:48 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
So we are left with either Dark Matter being very dark and hardly interacting with matter at all or it doesn't exist and both are a little unsettling to science.


Dark Matter never made any sense to me anyway , I just figured
that they needed a crutch and so they invented Dark Matter to
lean on.

so , now what happens to the space expanding faster than c
crutch?

wasnt that a result of Dark Matter or connected to Dark Matter in some way or form?

I forget or better yet its because I never looked into it , because I didnt think it was worth my time , because
I didnt believe that Dark Matter existed.

yep , I thought so.

http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/

Quote:
Eventually theorists came up with three sorts of explanations. Maybe it was a result of a long-discarded version of Einstein's theory of gravity, one that contained what was called a "cosmological constant." Maybe there was some strange kind of energy-fluid that filled space. Maybe there is something wrong with Einstein's theory of gravity and a new theory could include some kind of field that creates this cosmic acceleration. Theorists still don't know what the correct explanation is, but they have given the solution a name. It is called dark energy.


take your pick.

expanding
https://www.google.com/#q=dark+matter+and+expanding+universe

acceleration

https://www.google.com/#q=dark+matter+and+the+acceleration+of+the+expanding+universe

and the walls began to tumble down.

the acceleration is due to a loss of mass , just like I
said in a earlier thread , or threads here on SAGG.



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#50189 - 10/31/13 04:05 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: paul]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
so , now what happens to the space expanding faster than c
crutch? ?


Below one picture

I see airplane but I can not hear it

what if I not see and not hear ???




Black Hole = Newton Action and reaction + new point of view for old problem





fashlight ----> C> ...... observer 1

observer 1 can not see light ( information about body position ) have lower velocity than body


observer 2..............flaslight -----> C>

observer 2 can not see light !!! light can not hit flashlight and back to his eyes !!!!


flashlight -----> C>
I
I
I
I
Observer 3

Observer 3 is abbel see very LOW LUX ( exist huge abberation that reduce brightness of this what is sending flashlight )

look below light made distance "a" after time T
How many meters made rocket during time T ?




Sensrs on opposite wall can register ENERGY / AREA
Energy is constant if electric power of laser is constant
what can change ? AREA !!! ( one point , or many points - line)



Wery important fact !!!

dark night You keep in Your hand Bulb ( edison )
if You are moving in space with Earth ( 30 km/s . 220...)
You are sending many 3d Ball Waves

Look below not NEW GENIAL THEORY !!! ( only doppler and !!! and !!! not red blue but INTENSITY OF SIGNAL SHIFT !!!

How work bulb in vacuum and what mean distance for bulb
Inverted Square Law



Doppler for light Bulb was in past in point 1 and started perfect 3D ball 1 .....



First Test Michelson Morley ( Intensity of signal version LUX )

[img:center]http:

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#50190 - 10/31/13 04:20 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
so , now what happens to the space expanding faster than c
crutch? ?


Below one picture

I see airplane but I can not hear it

what if I not see and not hear ???




Black Hole = Newton Action and reaction + new point of view for old problem





fashlight ----> C> ...... observer 1

observer 1 can not see light ( information about body position ) have lower velocity than body


observer 2..............flaslight -----> C>

observer 2 can not see light !!! light can not hit flashlight and back to his eyes !!!!


flashlight -----> C>
I
I
I
I
Observer 3

Observer 3 is abbel see very LOW LUX ( exist huge abberation that reduce brightness of this what is sending flashlight )

look below light made distance "a" after time T
How many meters made rocket during time T ?




Sensrs on opposite wall can register ENERGY / AREA
Energy is constant if electric power of laser is constant
what can change ? AREA !!! ( one point , or many points - line)



Wery important fact !!!

dark night You keep in Your hand Bulb ( edison )
if You are moving in space with Earth ( 30 km/s . 220...)
You are sending many 3d Ball Waves

Look below not NEW GENIAL THEORY !!! ( only doppler and !!! and !!! not red blue but INTENSITY OF SIGNAL SHIFT !!!

How work bulb in vacuum and what mean distance for bulb
Inverted Square Law



Doppler for light Bulb was in past in point 1 and started perfect 3D ball 1 .....



First Test Michelson Morley ( Intensity of signal version LUX )




LUX nombers and solar system ?



How I know that my own coordinatin system is moving ?




Exist zero montion ?




Why Michelson Morley is important test ?




Why Mr Mach Idea will never cooperate with Einstein

[img:center]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ad_XcIVcUpU/ULBdRibvFYI/AAAAAAAAARI/xC8MMjBBdDk/s1600/comparrrree.JPG[/img]

Mr Mach started think that we can use FAR FAR star as a ZERO
his idea is very good

I made in home my own small star * my test camera and bulb

I know electric power of the star
I know that this star is moving the same velocity like my own coordination system ( Earth )
I know distance bulb sensor

I have all datas to evaluate aberration !!!
power of beam or geometry of beam AND POSITION ON SESOR

not exist C + V or C-V
light started in point 1 ( past )
How far Earth is from point 1 ( I can measure Intensity shift )

point 1 ... point 2 ... point 3 ( Doppler drawing ) !!!



Everyone can do similar to me test.
Einstein made huge mistake !!!

he can not explain three facts that very good cooperate
doppler + aberration + LUX nombers ( Intensity shift ) !

WHAT IS VERY IMPORTANT !!!!

gravitation and light work very similar !!!

m--R----M ----> 220 km/s

m--R----M --------------------------C/2

mass m will feel different gravitation forces
(LUX for light Energy/ Area for gravitation )

distance and how far from place vere signal started mass m feel signal is very important for atoms and electrons !!!

below atom ( wodore ) do You see velocity ? ( ellipse )
microscope position and Earth velocity ?

[img:center]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bTJ5b87JkLs/Uj8OWF0ZFdI/AAAAAAAABJw/CCqnyMkqC60/s1600/Atom+pictures.JPG[/img]

Why atomic clock showing different time ?

electron period is able be diffrend !!! it is natural that electron in absolute space is making ellipse around athom center

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#50191 - 10/31/13 05:53 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Noone cares about your stupid images.

I respect your right to have an opinion but we don't need you same picture B U L L S H I T in every thread.

If you have something to discuss that's fine go ahead but mindless posting of the same image over and over again and I will complain and ask you be banned. We have seen that same image like 50 or 60 times .... oh you added a green bit laugh

You can have a view and I don't even care if it is different from mine but please interact and say something on the forum rather than post the same crap images which are meaningless.

BROKEN BAD ENGLISH WOULD BE BETTER THAN STUPID PICTURES


You could tell us what you theory says about dark matter if you feel you have something to say ..... say it!!!!

We already another LUNATIC who says you are apparently wrong because thus expert Dr Sorin Cosofret who apparently is a genius with two degrees and can answer everything

Look he even has a website and HE IS RIGHT so you go convince him about your theory.

I think whichever of you can convince the other I will believe ... so I will support whoever wins

Convince Dr Sorin you are right and I will support you .... deal?

HIS WEBSITE .... NOW GO CONVINCE HIM
http://www.elkadot.com/index.php/en/

You really need a website ... you aren't getting your genius out to a larger following.

If you want my real opinion of both of you here is my image



I am really praying natural selection selects against idiots because the idea of that much idiot gene progressing thru generations is more than I want to think about.


Edited by Orac (10/31/13 10:43 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50192 - 10/31/13 02:40 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
newton

I understand there is a language barrier that prevents you
from communicating to the desired degree necessary to present
your opinions in a clear and understandable fashion.

the images that you post could do this for you if you clean
them up a bit , leave out the jokes , and add a summary of the message you are presenting in the images.

try to keep the images within a clear tolerance of each other
and maintain communication from image to image , to allow a
viewer to follow the opinion that you have.

you need to concern yourself with a viewers loss of attention
I know you can draw , and some of your comments are clearly understandable , therefore I know you can do it if you focus
on keeping a viewers attention.

capture the viewers curiosity , lock the viewers interest and
feed the viewer your opinion.

and keep it short but to the point.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#50194 - 10/31/13 04:51 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Paul has set a better tone than my last post so I am going to try one last time to show where this is going to end for you Maciej Marosz unless you change the way you are doing things.

You can keep your theory alive but you MUST ACT DIFFERENTLY.

I am going to use Sorin Cosofret to show you where you are headed unless you listen. I did some looking around old physic site archives (waiting for the lux broadcast) and Sorin comes up in posts dating back earlier than 2008.

In 2008 he was awarded an immortal gem title

http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Gems/IWorryAboutYou.html

It's rather childish game scientists play to see if we can identify posts of absolute stupidity that are so silly as the title says "I worry about you."

So Sorin has been putting up the same silly arguments for something over 8 years it's probably longer. He has been given the same answers and same details as I recently gave him from at least 20+ different science forums.

The response given back to him in 2008 is telling

Quote:

The life you waste defending this "work" is your own. Should you be interested in a real work of physics, you might find this interesting:


He has wasted 8+ years of his life posting the same rubbish which will never be accepted by science because it doesn't follow the guidelines of science.

I actually feel rather sad for Sorin to waste that much of his life and thoughts on such a futile exercise and all he got from it was to become the butt of a lot of jokes and get laughed at. Whether Sorin is aware or cares about what has become of his reputation is unclear to me but I feel embarrassed for him.

That will be you Maciej Marosz in 8 years if you continue down this path you need to act differently. You think I am bad now you better believe if you are still posting the same images 8 years from now I am going to be pretty hostile, I have already seen that image 60+ times.

First and foremost as per Paul has said above you need to communicate not post what appears to us as the work of a bad impressionist painter. It doesn't matter if your English is not good your pictures are even worse.

You are going to encounter criticism, you have to expect it and you will have to show slowly and methodically what you propose. If you fail to do this science will just ignore you like I currently do ... the point here is science doesn't care about your discovery. Unless science can get full answers so it can neatly join it in to a much larger physics there is nothing gained by accepting your physics. Everything is working perfectly fine at the moment so why break everything to put your idea in if all it does is break everything else.

So the key point here and it's worth making it clear

PHYSICS IS WORKING PERFECTLY FINE FOR MOST SCIENTISTS TODAY IT DOESN'T NEED YOUR CHANGE UNLESS IT HAS SOMETHING TO GAIN.

At the moment if it accepted your idea in to science in it's rather crazy form everything from the atom, cosmology, QM and chemistry .... all stop working.

IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF YOU WERE RIGHT ... NOTHING WORKS ANYMORE.

So what science will do is simple it will ignore you and eventually sometime in the distant future some other person will work out how to put the idea you thought of properly into science in a proper manner and they will get all the prizes and no one will even remember Maciej Marosz.

That is you fate Maciej Marosz, so now it's up to you, are you willing to learn and change or do you want to continue on to be the next Sorin Cosofret. Let's see where you end up 8 years from now and if you learnt anything and any of this sunk in.


Edited by Orac (10/31/13 04:54 PM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50195 - 10/31/13 05:49 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
Dear Orac thank You for Tip ( My discovery I made during I play camera witb my daughter ) camera west and east see different brightness



How You want to conect below facts in one ?

below I showing very good know definition from books (physics )


1 doppler




2 Iverted Square Law



Do You think That below is my own theory ? or test that I made in home and everyone can repeat ?


Please imagine that You are keeping hot bulb in Your hand

point 1 .... point 2 ......point 3....
3d signal 1 .....2............3....... ( please look on doppler drawing ) Your bub is in many new points


I want ask You why we have winter and summer ( 66.66 angle problem we have in books ) below my additional idea ( theaories ??? )


Your Bulb = Sun

Earth -----------Sun -------------Earth

light need 6 minutes for distance Earth SUN ??

Sun started singnal in point 1 where will be earth after 6 minutes please compare winter and summer position



below map made astronomers ( it is not my own map )



how You want to speak about physics without pictures ?

after above do You understand below Idea ?



IT IS NOT THEORY ABOVE I SHOWED LOGIC AND FACTS FROM BOOKS

below My own test in home

first test
> http://youtu.be/XF_npmQ8kGY

first pictures ( brightness - photoshop 10 histogram) west ( -30km/s ) and East (+30 km/s )
> http://youtu.be/O9k-zidfJZg


Right now I need repeat my test in prof. lab and with international team below test can be esy done in LIGO


what will happen with light between time 1/300 000 and
4/300 000 ???

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50121#Post50121

I'm sory that I'm wasting time and public on forum bad english TXT below other stupid explain

Light made distance "a" how many meters made rocket ?



DO YOU LIKE MICHELSON MORLEY TEST WHY ? WHY THEY HAVE ZERO ??
WHO TOLD THAT MICHELSON MOLRLEY CONFIRMED MR EINSTEIN THEORY ?

what will register sensors on opposite rockets's wall ???

WHO SHOWING TRUE me or books ? please repeat my test in home why we can measure west east diferent brightness ???
diferent LUX orthe same ???

right now Hawking and many others speak about black holes like about somthing very unnatural for me it is only mass and action and reaction and motion

faster than light ?



Edited by newton (10/31/13 06:04 PM)

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#50196 - 10/31/13 06:15 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
Dear Orac in books doppler for light it is only RED / Blue shift

what You think do we have also Intensity shift

level of signal ( brightness shift ) ???





source --->V1 ----distance R ------ sensor---> v2


please compare to below sitiation

sensor ----->V2 -----distance R ------- source ----> V1


situation A V1 > V2

before see situation B please study below animation ( not my own but from books physics ) - not exist C+Vsource and please compare apparent point to point 1 from doopler picture

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Aberrationlighttimebeaming.gif




situation B V1 = V2


I wiil ask You one more do You undderstand what mean above for physics ?

m -----R ----- M ----------> 30 km/s

m -----R ------M ---------------------------> 220 km/s


M ----R ---m ---------------> 30 km/s

...????

How big Intensity of signal will feel mass M ( gravitation )

Athomic Cloc ????????????

we have different time during trip ?

or electron inide atomic clock not feel the same forces ? ( the same intesity of signal that started form point 1 ...2 ...3...4 )




Edited by newton (10/31/13 06:29 PM)

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#50197 - 11/01/13 01:57 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
So basically you read nothing of what we wrote and learnt nothing ... you really are drop kick stupid.

So lets start counting ... 61

I see the images but I see no relevance I know how Doppler and inverse square law work I HAVE A SCIENCE DEGREE. If that is all that is about remove them I know how those effects work as will most on here because you are on a science forum.

I think it's the next bit you loose everyone because you start comparing objects with MASS to objects WITHOUT MASS. So can you clarify which type are we talking about?

I think that is where you need to start but be clear are you talking about light or objects with mass.

In your discussion something put one picture ... and explain it in one post and then wait for response. Noone can put a whole theory in a page or a single post. Einstein started with a single thought E=MC2 he argues the rest out from there and he won every argument. So if you are going to do this start with the first idea don't tell us how it ends we don't care until we agree with the first fact.

So are we clear one fact and one picture in each post I will respond otherwise I will just ignore you.

My image of the universe I will copy it every time I see your bulk images I think my universe is prettier... lets see how fast the moderator bans us shall we or can you learn how to communicate.



Edited by Orac (11/01/13 03:15 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50198 - 11/01/13 03:15 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
Ok one Picture

Doppler Efect



source ---> V1 -----distance R ------- sensor ---->V 2

if V2 >V1 = sensor escape from the source ( distance R rise )

Intensity of signal is going down


above discovery I made in 2012 ( doppler made own idea 1842 )

Fact or False ?
before me nobody use Inverted Square Law in way how I did this and add Inverted squear law to doppler



We have one small problem Source and Sensor are inside medium or are inside Vacuum ?

If they are inside vacuum all what happen inside vacuum described J.Bradley ( astonomy aberration ) below very nice animation ( please imagine that the source and the sensor are moving in space I not like below animation but I use it to help You imagine the problem )

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Aberrationlighttimebeaming.gif


If the source and sensor are inside medium ? for example air ?
this is other problem


Ok one post one topic ?
physics is not narrow EM waves = Gravitation waves

small mass m = sensor
huge mass M = source

m ----> V1 ----------distance R ------- M -----> V2

VERY NICE PROBLEM TO STUDY
WHAT IF V1 = V2 ?
where the signal started and where the signal will be register

we can make test in home ( I did it )

camera1 -----R ---- BULB -------R ----- camera2 ---> Motion

Brightness of picture = Inverted Square Law !!!

I'm sorry uppssss I cross one topic ?
or I speak about the same problem ?


m ------ R ------ M --------R ------- m -----> Motion

what about athoms on Earth ? athoms feel motion ?
upss I cross topic ???


What about atomic clock and motion ( m = electrom , M = center)
atomic clock ? do we have two different time and space ? or one atomic clock that have small problem during travel in airplane - motion change forces that work on electron ( not exactly forces but Intensity of signal from center )



Edited by newton (11/01/13 03:23 AM)

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#50199 - 11/01/13 03:19 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
And I have answered that question the answer is NOPE your expectation is invalidated by my laser lab.

Infact we can go futher a bunch of clever scientists have levitated a mirror to DIRECTLY measure the light force of a lasers power

http://phys.org/news/2013-10-laser-tripod-levitation.html



So if what you suggested is true they would have no chance of doing the experiment as the earth swirls around in space.

Remember for a laser the power is it brightness you measure a laser power by it brightness per square area of beam and they are measuring it DIRECTLY to extreme accuracy.

I am not sure where you want to go from there the idea is clearly wrong .. we call that a falsification.

So you can't just ignore that you have to either explain how we are seeing something totally different to what you idea says.

Now I know you have an experiment you say shows the effect but as scientists we always try and reconcile different experiments. So science has multiple universities all reporting a different result to your home experiment. The obvious and most likely conclusion is your experiment has something wrong in it's control conditions but you refuse to look at them.


Edited by Orac (11/01/13 03:32 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50200 - 11/01/13 03:41 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
You actually put two ideas in your post ... NOT ONE AS ASKED .. but I will cut you some slack.

You took the problem into solids and we can answer that as well.

What was funny is you sort of jumped on the image of the atom saying it's not perfectly round. I found it funny because you have no idea how many times that image has been scaled and probably distorted yet you think it showed something.

However it does bring up another almost instant falsification of your idea because you realize the atoms would distort and that would be correct if your idea was true.

That has a massive implication because lengths of solids would change depending on there motion smile

So you could get a couple of meters of material and accurately measure it and move it around ... it should change under your idea right?

I want you to think about electrons in a piece of metal and we take that metal on a centrifuge ... what should happen under your idea? The electron has mass 9.10938291 10-31 kilograms and it's fairly loosely bound.


Edited by Orac (11/01/13 03:43 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50201 - 11/01/13 03:41 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209

bulb ------150 000 000 km !!! --------sesor

please turn on bulb only for 1 sec. signal

light is going to sensor ( small one sec portion )


what if exist motion ?


sensor1 ------ Bulb ------ sensor 2 ------> motion

NOT EXIST C+ V or C- V
(fact from books many time confirmed for EM waves )

Where the signal startet ? where sensor 1 and sensor 2 will register signal (where will be bulb 5 - 6 minutes later )
( how far from point where light started sensors will register signal )

Please Use inverted square Law and C speed in vacuum


FALSE ? MY TEST IN HOME = FALSE !!!

WOW ...

WHY YOU HAVE WINTER AND SUMMER ( 66.66 is only problem no 1 ) do You see problem no 2 in above post ?

BUBL WAS TURNED ON ONLY FOR ONE SEC !!!
WHERE THE SIGNAL STARTED ?
WHERE THE SIGNAL WILL BE REGISTER ?
HOW LOOK BEAM SHAPE ?







Edited by newton (11/01/13 03:44 AM)

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#50202 - 11/01/13 03:44 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
That's not an experiment anyone can do ... I am not even going to bother arguing it. I know whats wrong with it but you wont listen lets stick to experiments scientists and if necessary you can do and test.

SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE IT IS BAD IN SCIENCE YOU ARE AVOIDING A PROBLEM TO YOUR THEORY.

The problem you are bringing is the bulb emits in 3D and we can't have sensors everywhere. So stay with a laser which travels in a nice straight line.

If have misunderstood your home experiment then that's fine we can come back to it.

I NEED TO GET RID OF THE INVERSE SQUARE PROBLEM BECAUSE IT MAKES ANY EXPERIMENT HARD ... I HAVE GIVEN YOU A SUGGESTION

It shouldn't change anything in your problem but means I can measure at one point and one point only I don't have to try and cover an entire 3D sphere with measurements and it removes the inverse square problem .. happy with that?

So we have a laser beam and it's power is simply the brightness in its cross sectional area. The beam will widen slightly as it travels distance it always does but for most usable distance you can ignore it.

If you agree with all that ... no more talk of inverse square law and stay with the laser beam.

So according to you the laser power will change depending if it is going with the movement or against it .. correct?

I am avoiding hypotheticals lets stick to facts we can check.


Edited by Orac (11/01/13 05:13 AM)
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I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50203 - 11/01/13 04:06 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
I should actually add these days we can go smaller and more precise than even a laser beam we can go down to a single photon which there are methods to tag a photon with Quantum entanglement.

The process is call pre-heralding and so you can track an individual photon of light and detect it's arrival.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130520154251.htm

The initial detection rate was 84% I understand that has been improved lately.

So definitely no inverse square law for a single photon situation science basically can do anything to test your theory they would just need it to be viable to want to spend the money to do it.

I think we are getting somewhere near the misunderstanding and I guess we should ask and make sure you accept


For a single photon the inverse square problem doesn't and can't exist because it is a single item .. correct? Maciej Marosz doesn't exhibit inverse square law because he is a single item .. that's the simplicity of the logic.

Normally I would take it a person realizes and accepts that but I need to check with you that you understand what a photon is.

Ultimately the question we are after is Maciej Marosz or Einstein correctly predicting the behavior of a single photon of light and as that doesn't involve the inverse square law so we need to get it out of our experiments and discussion in some agreed way.


So are we clear I don't understand how you think the inverse square law gets involved, unless it has something to do with your home experiment and if that is the case lets ignore your home experiment for now.

My position is straight forward Maciej Marosz as a person doesn't exhibit square law behavior a photon of light also doesn't exhibit square law behavior because it is ONE item.

What I am starting to think is you think a photon of light spreads out in 3D like a radio wave it doesn't it is a particle called a gauge boson under electromagnetic theory.

Is that why we don't see the same answers .. I need you to tell me you understand what a photon is?

Does everything above make sense to you?


See I had not thought about this before because we sort of don't think like layman smile If you got confused and thought a photon did emit in every direction it's energy would get less and less by the square law laugh

Why no one would think about it like that is the photon is the emission ... a photon doesn't emit anything. It would be like telling me Maciej Marosz is emitting Maciej Marosz's. You see the directionality of a photon in the movies with the sniper red dot on the person to be shot. You can't see the beam in travel because the photons are directional you only see them when they hit a target and bounce off in all directions and hence you see the dot on the target.

Is that what has got you confused you got photons all mixed up?


Edited by Orac (11/01/13 07:21 AM)
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I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50204 - 11/01/13 07:42 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
The problem you are bringing is the bulb emits in 3D and we can't have sensors everywhere. So stay with a laser which travels in a nice straight line.


hmmmmmm?????

WE CAN CHANGE TEST AND USE LASER ( Michelson Morley used hot Edison Bulb in first interferometer not important small joke that You can confirm in books - Gallileo made test with candle)

Laser and ideal strait line + doppler + vacuum

not exist C+V ( fact 1 )
light speed C ( constant fact 2 )
laser has got electric power P ( fact 3 )
( laser can sent X joules / sec)


below test we can made in space

during short time T light made distance "a"
during short time T laser emited for example 10 Joules energy

during short time T rocket made distance ????
how to evaluate ???
on opposite rocket's wall we have sensors similar to this what use photocamera ( can be also traditional old film )




DEAR ORAC CAN WE RECOGNIZE HOW MANY JOULES REGISTER POINT or NOT ???


We should know about teperature problem ( we can evaluate constant mistake that we will made in above test )
( hot diode is sending biger beam and more biger power ) producent always inform about +/- %







Edited by newton (11/01/13 08:06 AM)

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#50205 - 11/01/13 07:49 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
Ohh ..... one important info

Vo= 0 10 joules will work on one point
Vo= A sensors will register intensity B
Vo= 2A sensors will register intensity B/2


PLEASE ADD TO ABOVE ROCKET DOPPLER DRAWING

laser was in point 1 ...point 2.....point 3 ....point 4
and send wave 1 ....wave 2 .....wave 3 .....wawe 4...

laser and diode has got some Hz ( about 120 000 000 / sec )
so below picture very good describe exist signal not exist



WE ARE MAKING TEST INSIDE VACUUM NOT INSIDE AIR
MICHELSON MORLEY USE AIR ( MEDIUM )
MEDIUM IT IS SEPARATE PROBLEM





Edited by newton (11/01/13 07:54 AM)

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#50206 - 11/01/13 08:05 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Forget all that I am pretty sure I have worked it out why we can't understand you.

You view a "PHOTON" like a mini light bulb don't you emitting in 3D and that's why you say we can't remove the problem ... found it.

I couldn't for the life of me work out why you kept going on about the inverse square law function but I am pretty sure I understand why you think that.

It also explains why in some of you examples with rockets that you couldn't work out they would never see the light.


THE PROBLEM I AM SURE IT IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERTSAND A PHOTON.

You need to understand what a photon .... that's the problem I am sure or it.

Haha that's why you make no sense to me and I make no sense to you ... sorry it wasn't obvious to me because I don't think like a layman ... so hard when you don't understand the other person.

SO DESCRIBE A PHOTON FOR ME THATS ALL I NEED YOU TO DO I AM SURE THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS


DOH I AM SUCH A SCIENTIST DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT A PHOTON IS?


I am sure once you understand a photon this will all clear up this is the so called particle behavior of light.


Edited by Orac (11/01/13 08:20 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#50207 - 11/01/13 08:18 AM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
Megastar

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
PHOTON = zero mass

PHOTON = energy portion



PLEASE STUDY ABOVE ROCKET PICTURE

electric power of laser we can describe other way
not Joules / sec but Photons / sec

I WILL ASK YOU HOW MANY ENERGY WILL REGISTER
OPPOSITE ROCKET'S WALL

NEXT PROBLEM HOW BIG AREA WILL FEEL ENERGY

can we measure velocity in this way ?
exist zero ? ( all energy hit only one point )



Edited by newton (11/01/13 08:20 AM)

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