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#50261 - 11/05/13 01:07 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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Registered: 09/30/12
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Do you understand that the pattern will change just by you observing it?

In CHINA live few miliards peolpe !!!

Ok please imagine that we kindly ask
DEAR ALL PEOPLE please Look on SUN !!!

AND SUN JOUST STOP EXIST

after they will close eyes AND SUN START WORK
they open eyes and SUN NOT WORK ?

OK PEOPLE LETS KILL OTHER STARS ?

I LIKE QUANTUM I NEVER THINK IT CAN BE SO FUNY :):)






Edited by newton (11/05/13 01:10 PM)

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#50262 - 11/05/13 01:08 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
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So the answer to your slit question I can not answer they had to draw that because if they tried to photograph it they couldn't if they can see the slits at the same time as the interference pattern it will stop.

You can build one and try and take a photo of it yourself ... it's like trying to find the end of a rainbow smile
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#50263 - 11/05/13 01:11 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Originally Posted By: newton
Do you understand that the pattern will change just by you observing it?

In CHINA live few miliards peolpe !!!

Ok please imagine that we kindly ask
DEAR ALL PEOPLE please Look on SUN !!!

AND SUN JOUST STOP EXIST

after they will close eyes AND SUN START WORK
they open eyse and SUN NOT WORK ?


That is an Einstein quote and it was the moon.

The answer is quite clear things exist even when not observed because there is a universal observer which is the universe itself.

So yes the sun exists but it is sort of phasing in and out of the universe ... nothing is really solid like we imagine it.

The reason for all this stems back to our initial problem you never got to the bottom of ... how does an atom stay together.

Remember you never could get the balls to spin and build an model of the atom and there is a reason for that ... Quantum Mechanics.

As I said no one likes Quantum mechanics unfortunately the universe has a sense of humour and doesn't care.


Edited by Orac (11/05/13 01:14 PM)
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#50264 - 11/05/13 01:14 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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PHOTON HAVE ENERGY OR NOT

PHOTON STARTED IN PAST

EXIST ENERGY = ENERGY CAN BE SPLIT

I NO SEE ANY SPECIAL INFORMATION AND FACTS
DOBEL SLITS EXPERIMENT nothing special nothing magic !!!




Edited by newton (11/05/13 01:17 PM)

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#50265 - 11/05/13 01:24 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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Sorry for My english This wors for me are uncleare ?


****
Remember you never could get the balls to spin and build an model of the atom and there is a reason for that ... Quantum Mechanics.
****

I very like classical mechanic You want to build model

I can not Understand problem ?

how many balls ? why it is impossible ?

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#50266 - 11/05/13 01:24 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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I have no actual problem with you initial start points as I said originally.

There is nothing wrong with that statement.

The problem came with everything in between .. you have seen the problem Quantum mechanics throws up with things not being solid do you really think there could be an ABSOLUTE SPACE in such a situation ... nothing is solid so absolute to what smile

So my basic objection is absolute space .. if you want absolute energy that's fine by me but not space.

We opened you eyes and showed you the real physics as it is in all it's horrible detail ... things never seem quite the same. You never need to know any of that to live and work each day you can assume the world is solid but you have to not look to deep smile
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#50267 - 11/05/13 01:30 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Originally Posted By: newton

I very like classical mechanic You want to build model

I can not Understand problem ?

how many balls ? why it is impossible ?


The problem is the positive charges in the nucleus.

How are you going to get them so close together try doing this with magnets try and stick a whole pile of the same poles together.

Short of getting out rope and binding them all together they are never going to stay there.

To get the protons squeezed together like they are in a classic physics atom you need a force to push them together or pull them together smile

Now that force can only push or pull against space itself .. remember the charges repel laugh

Ok you probably don't get the problem ... so reach down grab your ankles and pull your feet up off the ground please laugh

See the problem gravity is outside the forces you can't do it gravity would always win and the atom would collapse.

Ok give me a minute and I will simplify down and show you how an atom really works.


Edited by Orac (11/05/13 01:32 PM)
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#50268 - 11/05/13 01:32 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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I try read about spin I not understand definition

what is it spin ???

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#50269 - 11/05/13 01:41 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Okay that is indeed very difficult.

Initially because of the history it was thought particles were solid and as you have seen that simply isn't true.

However as you deduced you have energy and the energy itself can move around or spin.

So you need to not think of it like a solid ball spinning but I guess more like a liquid ball in space spinning .. I seem to remember there were some images of water droplets drifting around the space station.

That is why not all spins can be equated to normal momentum spin like spinning a ball for example in a liquid ball you can simple have a vibration backward and forward across the ball of liquid.

So the short answer is a spin is something that is different between two particles and we are now trying to call it quantum information as opposed to spin because it confuses.


So spin = quantum information = energy


Edited by Orac (11/05/13 01:42 PM)
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#50270 - 11/05/13 01:49 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
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This is a reasonable image to show you to not think like normal spins ... think a lot more complex

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#50271 - 11/05/13 01:50 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
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You will understand why they are complex in a second when I show you the atom.
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#50272 - 11/05/13 01:53 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
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This is the standard way we fix up stuff these days.

Spin is an intrinsic property of elementary particles, and its direction is an important degree of freedom. It is sometimes visualized as the rotation of an object around its own axis (hence the name "spin"), though this notion is somewhat misguided at subatomic scales because elementary particles are believed to be point-like.
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#50273 - 11/05/13 01:54 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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QUANTUM FOR ME IS SOMHING THAT I WILL NEVER FEEL AND UNDERSTAND

Bozon Higgsa is moving or not ?

bozon higsa -----> V1 ?

bozon higsa > zero motion ?


My experiment ( source (LED) emited photon )
single photon is going to Source ( why You ask me about quantum mechanic ? ) distance source -- double slits exist photon need time to touch the doble slits what if V1 = C/2 what if V1 = C

Where will be double slits short time after photon started trip ?

we speak about one single photon or photons ?

photon is rise like ballon ? ( not have one direction ) ?

what if the distance source/double sits will be very long ?

what if the distance source/double sits will be very short ?

how one photon can be inside two slits what if it will not touch any slit ( below picture HUGE V1 and HUGE distance !!! )

.......source -----> V1
.........i
.........i
.........i
....single photon
.........i
.....double- slit ----->V1
.........i
.......Sensor ----->V1

shorter distance ?

.......source -----> V1
.........i
....single photon
.........i
.....double- slit ----->V1
.......Sensor ----->V1


In my test I ask my self only about constant Earth motion
I made test on the Earth source, double slits and sensors are moving V1 velocity



Edited by newton (11/05/13 02:13 PM)

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#50274 - 11/05/13 02:02 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Very hard to know if the higgs boson is moving or not our understanding is too early as yet.

Interaction of matter with it gives some mass what we call relativistic mass but it does not create the mass we attribute to gravity. So some otherwise massless particles gain mass by interaction with the higgs but not all.

So again it's not simple the story of the higgs mass depends on what type of object you are talking about.
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#50275 - 11/05/13 02:06 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Originally Posted By: newton
QUANTUM FOR ME IS SOMHING THAT I WILL NEVER FEEL AND UNDERSTAND


You can if you try just follow the experiments.


Quote:

how one photon can be inside two slits what if it will not touch any slit ( below picture HUGE V1 and HUGE distance !!! )


The question you didn't ask which is the one most students immediately ask .... is the photon real?

The point above is important and you will probably have less problem with it than many students because you haven't wanted to make the world solid again .. that does not seem to bother you.
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#50276 - 11/05/13 02:10 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
Orac Offline
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Now getting back to the atom I need to see if you understand this bit

http://education-portal.com/academy/less...rgy.html#lesson

This explains the mass that goes missing as energy that is used as the force to bind the nucleus together.

Now again they are avoiding discussing how energy binds something together because they are deliberately avoiding having to discuss quantum mechanics.

So just checking you understand that there is a lot of energy required to hold those protons together in a nucleus of an atom ... and I do mean a lot like atomic bomb size a lot.


Edited by Orac (11/05/13 02:11 PM)
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#50277 - 11/05/13 02:17 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 1209
Thank You that You like to show me more ?
I need go to libary and read.

Sorry I need do this step by step there is many new Name and definition ( at first look )

above link look ok
THX


Edited by newton (11/05/13 02:19 PM)

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#50278 - 11/05/13 02:23 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
You are welcome ... you are now realizing how much more complex this is.

You however are on the right track there is one thing to always follow it doesn't change from classic physics to quantum mechanics .... ENERGY ... follow the energy
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#50279 - 11/05/13 02:27 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: Orac]
newton Offline
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E= mC^2

what is it mass ?

Inertia mass or gravitation mass ?

M----R --scale-m ----> Motion ???


please put small mass m on scale and measure weight
distance M---m = R is constant but exist motion !!!

m-scale-R--M ------------------------> Motion ???


Gravitation Intesity and mass m ?

Inertia mass m not equal gravitation mass m .
( motion change gravitation intensity )









Edited by newton (11/05/13 02:41 PM)

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#50280 - 11/05/13 02:39 PM Re: LUX says no to most dark matter [Re: newton]
Orac Offline
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Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
See you are getting it because you are asking the right questions smile

And because of the way the higgs was proved it is both and I am sure you are starting to see something a lot of students don't get till much later.

You probably guessed technically now you have to rewrite E=MC2 a little differently want to have a go at it?

That itself leads to an interesting question doesn't it .. why do they share the same relationship to light.


Edited by Orac (11/05/13 02:40 PM)
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