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My memory of Mike AND meeting him at SAGG

Way back, I did have a good dialogue with Mike Kremer, about a common interest we discovered that we BOTH had, and made use of over the years--the use of Ham Radio.

Indicating, at the time, that he lived in, London, England, he mentioned this interest in his profile.

Of course, this was before the magic of the Internet, GPS, and the cell phone.

In 1953, I made use of the ham radio to get to my first mission to Labrador--well over 60 yrs ago. So did the MISSION, where I served, use ham radio.

Jean and I were 23. What an exciting adventure that was. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, MIKE


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From what I know, he had two children, a son and a daughter, both grown and away from home. I think he was divorced from his wife. She at any rate lived in Hong Kong, and he in Britain. He was an inventor of sorts. He will be missed here.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

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Originally Posted By: Amaranth Rose II
From what I know, he had two children, a son and a daughter, both grown and away from home.

I think he was divorced from his wife. She, at any rate, lived in Hong Kong, and he in Britain. He was an inventor of sorts. He will be missed here.
AR II, thanks for your interesting response. However, like his short profile, it tells us very little about who he really was.

ARR II, you say that Mike was "an inventor of sorts". This prompts me to ask: Of "what sorts"?

This also prompts me to ask a lot of questions about the nature, function and value of SAGG itself and of belonging to it.

Sure, all question-filled, tyro-kind of scientists have their role and value in life. But keep in mind: Each of us, including Einstein was once a beginner.

Meanwhile, let us encourage all writers to fill out a good and valid profile. In no way, should any of the readers of SAGG be isolated from and meeting with genuine research scientists, inventors and the explorers of new ideas, who are among us?


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


This prompts me to ask a lot of questions about the nature, function and value of SAGG itself and of belonging to it.

Why? What gives value to something or someone in your personal opinion and in your church?
Originally Posted By: Revlgking


Meanwhile, let us encourage all writers to fill out a good and valid profile.

I vote for anonymity. Generally speaking there are a lot of nosy people in the world who would set personal standards for others, so they can judge whether another person has any value by pasting labels upon them.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
In no way, should any of the readers of SAGG be isolated from and meeting with genuine research scientists, inventors and the explorers of new ideas, who are among us?

All the more reason for anonymity. There are those who walk a path, that insist others traverse the same path as they do, and would judge others for non-compliance to belief and standards of living. Religion has long been known to badger those who do not live up to the beliefs and standards of the authoritative outlook upon life and lifestyle.
Those who are critical of themselves often are critical of others and look to align all to their own path, in order to further validate their own idea of self righteousness.

So let's encourage all those out there who want to be a part of Saggo to exercise their freedom of choice, and to avoid the fear that lends itself to those who would judge others by their histories, color, social background, or title.
Nosy people can get over themselves, and if anyone feels like they need validation for titles and self pasted labels because they lack self esteem, I'm sure they can find someone to stroke their sense of self worth if that is what they need.


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AR II, to my last comment I will add: As a minister--one who serves where needed--all my long ministry, I was very much involved in, and a part of, non-sectarian groups of social activists--social internets, long before what we now call the Internet.

We advocated, enthusiastically, for social justice--Health care for all, meaningful employment, and other justice issues. Justice for all classes, but especially for the needy and the working poor. Some of those who participated in the political economy, did so by taking a leave of absence from the church, and then were free to run for public office.

Naturally for this, more than once, we were attacked for speaking our views against bigoted religions, corrupt politics, abuse of the environment, the economy, and other vital issues.

In all this, we always welcomed, and received with respect, fair-comments and openly expressed and honest opinions of anyone. However, what was not welcomed was the attacks of:THE COWARDS WHO LOVE TO WEAR THE CLOAK OF ANONYMITY

Who would welcome the anonymous phone calls and unsigned letters--often containing violent and life-threatening language--that go with being an advocate.

Several of us had our cars rendered unsafe for driving, more than once. I once has a front wheel fall off, but fortunately, I was driving slowly when it happened.

A favourite threat was the use of a telegram with the message:
Quote:
We look forward to you joining us, soon ... and was signed by several well-known and long-deceased people, like Caesar Augustus, Hitler, John Kennedy, Martin L. King, and the like.

Last edited by Revlgking; 10/06/13 04:39 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
AR II, to my last comment I will add: As a minister--one who serves where needed--all my long ministry, I was very much involved in, and a part of, non-sectarian groups of social activists--social internets, long before what we now call the Internet.

We advocated, enthusiastically, for social justice--Health care for all, meaningful employment, and other justice issues. Justice for all classes, but especially for the needy and the working poor. Some of those who participated in the political economy, did so by taking a leave of absence from the church, and then were free to run for public office.

Naturally for this, more than once, we were attacked for speaking our views against bigoted religions, corrupt politics, abuse of the environment, the economy, and other vital issues.

In all this, we always welcomed, and received with respect, fair-comments and openly expressed and honest opinions of anyone. However, what was not welcomed was the attacks of:THE COWARDS WHO LOVE TO WEAR THE CLOAK OF ANONYMITY

Who would welcome the anonymous phone calls and unsigned letters--often containing violent and life-threatening language--that go with being an advocate.

Several of us had our cars rendered unsafe for driving, more than once. I once has a front wheel fall off, but fortunately, I was driving slowly when it happened.

A favourite threat was the use of a telegram with the message:
Quote:
We look forward to you joining us, soon ... and was signed by several well-known and long-deceased people, like Caesar Augustus, Hitler, John Kennedy, Martin L. King, and the like.


Really reverend? You carry that much fear in you because of the past, that you cannot live in the present moment?
You would group anyone claiming anonymity here, or speaking their mind in reference to your reverence and decrees of Godlike behavior as a threat to you and Saggo?

Evidently your God cannot give you peace.

There are always arguments on both sides of opinion. History has shown that violence does not just come from criminals, but from those who claim to be loving and righteous.

Fear and paranoia always preclude sensibility and intelligence.

Generally speaking it is not the anonymous who create the most trouble, but those who seek to protect their power and name.


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In an attempt to get this thread back on track I would like to introduce an article

http://phys.org/news/2013-09-god.html

It poses an interesting point about 4 key positions and the philosophy of religion

Kraay and Dragos propose that philosophers should evaluate the best arguments for and against four key positions:

•Pro-theism: If God existed, the world would be a better place to live.
•Anti-theism: God's existence would make the world a worse place.
•Indifferentism: God's existence would not make the world either better or worse.
•Agnosticism: The effect of God's existence on the world's value cannot be determined.


Thought's people?

Last edited by Orac; 10/06/13 08:13 AM.

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Philosophizing what ifs, is often less than productive.

Understanding God would preclude any confusion when postulating God's existence or non-existent status, and the effects of change in the personal reality and the world.


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What a load of garbage I don't have to know a thing in any subject including science before you study them you learn things about them while studying them ... teaching is sort of built on that whole premise.

Nice avoidance strategy TT .. oh wait that's right you can't describe your reality or your god or anything useful.

Your contribution to any conversation is about zero because you can't discuss it or describe it all you can do it play the contentious prat.


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Originally Posted By: Orac
In an attempt to get this thread back on track I would like to introduce an article

http://phys.org/news/2013-09-god.html ... Thoughts people?
Thoughts. Of course! Thanks for yours, Orac.

My thoughts? Without hiding behind the CLOAK OF ANONYMITY--worn by too many FEAR-filled posters in numerous forums (including SAGG), here is what I plan:

I plan to keep on talking philosophy (psychology and religion), science (what we want to know), art (what we do) and who we are.

Orac, thanks for telling us about WHO YOU ARE.

Feel free to tell us more about yourself. I love reading living biographies. I love hearing from real open people, especially when they are honest, courageous and open-faced and do not fear the truth science reveals.

I wonder about the value of closed-faced and two-faced posters: Do they teach us anything? Not that I know. If there is anything, I am all ears and willing to learn!

Meanwhile, thank G~0~D, Orac--for that which Generates, 0rganizes and Delivers. And for the IGNORE button! It means I do not have to waste time reading a LOT of what you call "GARBAGE", eh!

Last edited by Revlgking; 10/06/13 11:54 PM. Reason: Always helpful

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Originally Posted By: Orac
What a load of garbage I don't have to know a thing in any subject including science before you study them you learn things about them while studying them ... teaching is sort of built on that whole premise.

Great, so when are you going to study God, rather than postulate whether the world would be better if God existed or not if God didn't?
Originally Posted By: Orac

Nice avoidance strategy TT .. oh wait that's right you can't describe your reality or your god or anything useful.

Something that is Universal is not mine to isolate or own. I think that's a pretty good description of reality. Just because you don't like it isn't of much concern, unless I worry about you, the way the reverend worries about me. cool
Originally Posted By: Orac

Your contribution to any conversation is about zero because you can't discuss it or describe it all you can do it play the contentious prat.
If I believed you were speaking for all who come to SAGGO.. I probably still wouldn't concern myself with those who seek to degrade someone because they won't dance to their music, or bow to their idealisms.

I think this pretty much is still on topic when it comes to religion and philosophy of religion. Lots of slander, accusations, and self righteousness. wink


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Originally Posted By: TT

Great, so when are you going to study God, rather than postulate whether the world would be better if God existed or not if God didn't?


Well lets see you won't actually discuss GOD because it's too hard so I thought you might discuss the benefits and role of god ... oh wait that might involve actual discussion rather than just taking a contrarian view.


Originally Posted By: TT

Just because you don't like it isn't of much concern, unless I worry about you, the way the reverend worries about me. cool


I don't have any view on anything about you there is not much to have a view on it all you are doing is playing the poor contrarian pratt it's a child behavior would you like me to give you an analysis of why you do it?


Originally Posted By: TT

I think this pretty much is still on topic when it comes to religion and philosophy of religion. Lots of slander, accusations, and self righteousness. wink


Ahh yes TT so you can take your contrarian pose you poor little child .. never could quite live up to dads expectations could you laugh

I think I will just do like Rev K is doing and ignore you and hopefully mum will kiss it all better for you.


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Originally Posted By: Orac


Well lets see you won't actually discuss GOD because it's too hard

Not so. You have so far, given no indication of any knowledge regarding god other than dogmatic and superstitious nonsense based on what you heard or googled. When you actually come up with something original followed by a genuine interest we can discuss God all you want.
Until then there is a passage that I think is appropriate:

Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Perhaps you know what it means?
Originally Posted By: Orac
so I thought you might discuss the benefits and role of god ...

First you would have to understand God. Benefits and roles of dogma based on hearsay are noteworthy for those who like to read tabloids and believe everything that is said, or read, but I like to take it to the level of personal experience.
My point of discussion with the reverend. He knows what he likes about himself and what he wants God to look like, but he doesn't know God.
I'm sure you have already found that out based on his lack of definition in God and his round about directing of attention to character references for himself and his religion.
Originally Posted By: Orac
oh wait that might involve actual discussion rather than just taking a contrarian view.

Now yer talkin. Still waiting for someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Originally Posted By: Orac


I don't have any view on anything about you there is not much to have a view on it all you are doing is playing the poor contrarian pratt it's a child behavior would you like me to give you an analysis of why you do it?

And you say you have no view.. crazy


Originally Posted By: Orac


I think I will just do like Rev K is doing and ignore you

You mean by responding to my posts and sending private messages the way he does?


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YAWN ... mummy is calling smile

Let me guess you were bottle fed as a child laugh


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Originally Posted By: Orac
YAWN ... mummy is calling smile

You best go meet the call.
Originally Posted By: Orac

Let me guess you were bottle fed as a child laugh

You're still breast feeding?
Actually I was both breast fed and bottle fed.

By the way.. wasn't there something in your last post about ignoring me? Let me guess, you lack self control.



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Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

Actually I was both breast fed and bottle fed.


So it is your mum's fault ... nipple confusion ... you may have to google the term laugh


Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle

By the way.. wasn't there something in your last post about ignoring me? Let me guess, you lack self control.


Dangerous to assume anything with me smile

I respond to what I find interesting, might be educational, helpful or just humorous and sometimes just to stir.

Can't imagine what category this fits into laugh


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Originally Posted By: Orac


Dangerous to assume anything with me smile

Haven't yet assumed anything. Lately I seem to respond to your emotional interest in me.

Originally Posted By: Orac

I respond to what I find interesting, might be educational, helpful or just humorous and sometimes just to stir.

Being that you have strayed from the subject matter to concentrate on the Ad Hominems, I'd say your interests are up front.


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You were discussing something?

Sorry must have missed those few words you might have to recap it because I can't see it smile

It's rather easy to play the contentious pratt even at a contentious pratt but it does become rather boring.

Last edited by Orac; 10/07/13 02:59 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Orac


It's rather easy to play the contentious pratt even at a contentious pratt but it does become rather boring.


Boy howdy...


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Originally Posted By: Orac
YAWN ... mummy is calling smile

Let me guess, you were bottle fed as a child laugh
Great sense of humour, Orac!

BTW, to be a minister one needs to have an optimistic personality and philosophy of life, a common sense understanding of psychology--especially in helping people deal with the pain and sorrows life invariably brings our way.

In addition, ministers need at least two other things:

We need a sense of humour in our preaching and teaching in the Sunday sermons and mid-week talks; and a sense of rumour when we counsel and communicate with, and about, people we meet during the week.

However, all rumour must be accurate--that is, relevantly true--loving and benevolent (good gossip), not the malicious kind.

BTW, Orac, how do you feel about militant atheism--the kind we heard from the late Christopher Hitchins (GOD is Not Great) and the geneticist, Richard Dawkins The GOD Illusion)?

Last edited by Revlgking; 10/07/13 03:52 AM.

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