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#49268 - 07/24/13 11:38 PM Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
WHAT ARE BIT COINS? Here is the latest information about what I have been exploring--The creation of A COMMUNITY-CURRENCY SYSTEM--since the 1960s. It seems that the 'puter is now helping things happen. Very interesting!
For details, check out this link:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#What_are_bitcoins.3F
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#49269 - 07/25/13 01:10 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#49271 - 07/25/13 03:30 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
do Canadian laws prevent its people from creating a local monetary system?

and if you were able to legally create a local monetary system
what would the money be backed by?

if you choose something like gold or silver or the stock market to back the money then the value of the money will fluctuate way too much.

even the electronic bits will fluctuate with the money that is used to buy the bits with.

think about this , if you were on a deserted island with someone who had cans of food.

and you had a handful of thousand dollar bills , which would
have more value?

the food or the paper.

you'll need to find something that can not lose its value to use to back the money you make , something that can not be linked to the established Canadian currency..

but what could that be.

could you set prices on certain goods so that when the new money is used to purchase those goods those prices will never increase or change?

maybe you could purchase the right to buy a loaf of bread
with one of the new dollars and if the price of a loaf of bread goes to 5 dollars Canadian , your new dollar will still buy a
loaf of bread.


why not just buy gold and silver and hold.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49273 - 07/25/13 04:50 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
You do it USA and it has been done by conceptual artist Jonathon Keats when he created the quantum bank

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/bankers-are-both-furious-and-indifferent-about-the-quantum-atm
http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2013/06/quantum-banking-comes-to-new-york.html

No law against it so long as the ultimate value is set against US dollar he simply made 1 Quantum dollar = 1 US dollar.

Bit coin was only a concern to USA because it didn't use US dollar as it's value.
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#49274 - 07/25/13 01:01 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere


_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#49275 - 07/25/13 01:22 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
why would I want to use a currency that is linked to a failing economy?

I would rather use a currency that is not linked to any controllable economy , this way the value of my currency can
not be inflated or deflated by the stupid moves that politicians
make because of campaign contributions.

I can remember when gold was 20 dollars an ounce , now due to
stupid political decisions gold is 1323 an ounce , down from 1900 an ounce in only 2 years.

but when gold was 20 an ounce in the U.S. the U.S. was a strong
growing economic giant.

now the idiots we elected have destroyed that great economy just so they could get elected to office.

gold hasn't really gained any value , the dollar has simply lost its value.

and that's why gold cost more dollars when you buy gold in an
inflated economy.



you can buy these on ebay for the price of postage and handling.

its where were going.

thanks to our politicians.








_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49277 - 07/25/13 02:05 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
TT

That's the way I think about any type of electronic currency also.

it is destined to fail simply because it requires energy.

solar power is failing due to the added water vapor in the atmosphere and politicians campaign donations.

wind power is failing due to the extreme velocities of the wind and politicians campaign donations.

water power is not being exploited as much as it should be because of greed and politicians campaign donations.

that leaves nuclear , oil , gasoline , coal and thermal.

none of which are sustainable for any extreme environment
other than thermal.

and thermal is not being exploited as much as it should be
due to the cost and politicians campaign donations.


I suppose it could work if the device that holds the data had
a hand cranked generator on it , and the servers that transfer
the data to and from other devices also were hand cranked to
avoid data loss.

but I'm certain that the politicians can destroy that possibility also , I have that much faith in them as our leaders.

its what they do to us , and they are really good at it.


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49278 - 07/25/13 02:15 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

gold hasn't really gained any value , the dollar has simply lost its value.


Not really arguing with your argument Paul but interested in why you think gold has any value at all?

So why do we continue to value gold at all ... why is it valued at more than say salt.

An interesting thing is the price of saffron at the moment is around $400 a troy ounce and you can grow it smile
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#49280 - 07/25/13 02:50 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
why you think gold has any value at all?


because people value it.

in my opinion I value gold because gold value travels in the opposite direction of dollar value.

the dollar value decreases = gold price increases.
the dollar value increases = gold price decreases.

think of it as a hedge fund against inflation.
if deflation occurs then the dollar hedges your gold and
you should buy more gold.

as for the saffron value , and salt value.

history shows that salt was used as a currency between nations
people / soldiers were even paid salt as wages in the past because their currency was not easily exchanged for other goods.

spices were also used as trade currency.

look at this.



saffron gatherers in the bronze age.

Quote:
A detail from the "Saffron Gatherers" fresco of the "Xeste 3" building. It is one of many depicting saffron; they were found at the Bronze Age settlement of Akrotiri, on the Aegean island of Santorini.



Quote:
why is it valued at more than say salt.



I wonder how many salt mines have been purchased in the past
with gold as gold prices were noticed to be dropping.

those who trust that gold will hold its value also know that
gold will lose its value , and a prudent investor will find
a stable currency to transition into while gold is losing its value then he will transition back into gold as gold prices begin to rise.

he now has more gold.

he has lost nothing.

and he has a salt mine.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49282 - 07/25/13 07:10 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul
I can remember when gold was 20 dollars an ounce , now due to stupid political decisions gold is 1323 an ounce , down from 1900 an ounce in only 2 years.

I'm not really trying to get into this discussion, but in 1934 the price of gold in the USA was set at $35 an ounce. At that time the US economy was in shambles. Are you sure that the gold standard will stabilize the economy?

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#49283 - 07/25/13 11:49 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
it was in the 60's - 70's , I remember it because I thought it was a really low price for gold , it was on the news on tv.

minimum wage was around $2.35 an hour.

less than 10 hours of work at minimum wage would buy you an
ounce of gold.

heres a chart of average prices dating back to 1833

http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf

now you would need to work apx 180 hours at minimum wage
$7.25 an hour to buy an ounce of gold at 1323 an ounce.
well that was this afternoon sry its now 1333 an ounce.

that just shows how inflated the dollar has become ever since
the politicians decided that it was better for people in other
countries to work than the people that vote for them.

Quote:
Are you sure that the gold standard will stabilize the economy?


I never said that it would , I did say that gold can offset
the negative effects of the value of the dollar as it inflates.

I will say that our economy will never stabilize as long as
our People do not have good paying jobs , that are not pretend
good paying jobs due to inflation that has caused wages to increase so that people can buy the bare necessities.

a brand new Ford F100 pickup truck cost $900.00 in the 70's
at $2.35 an hour you would need to work 382 hours to buy one.

today a brand new Ford F100 is about $13,000
at $7.25 an hour you would need to work 1,793 hours to buy one.

inflation , its what you get when you have politicians who
are only concerned with getting elected or re-elected.

the equivalent buying power of $2.35 an hour in the 70's
today would be $34.00 an hour according to Ford F100 prices
$13,000 / 382 hours = $34.00

if you earn less than $34.00 an hour today you are earning less than people did when minimum wages were $2.35 an hour in the 70's

OK , they must have been having a sale on F 100's when I saw
the advertisement.

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1970/Ford/F100/1-2-Ton-Styleside-LWB/Values

$2,675.00

looks like they no longer make F 100's !!

lets go with the F 150's

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/

$24,070.00

but you get the picture.










_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49284 - 07/26/13 01:17 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
pokey Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 84
Paul typed:

"a brand new Ford F100 pickup truck cost $900.00 in the 70's..."


Must disagree (you must be a young fella), they were about $2500 USD in 1970.

http://www.oldride.com/library/1970_ford_f100.html

Model Number Body Type & Seating Factory Price Shipping Wt
83 - Flareside 6.5 ft $2,510 3,475

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#49285 - 07/26/13 01:37 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: pokey]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
I've already corrected that , they used to have clearance sales
when the new models were coming out so that they could have room
for the new models , it seemed like everyone was buying new cars then , as I remember they would take anything you could push in to the car lot as a trade in , who knows they may have had some
type of insurance that covered the loss in sales.

these days you can still find 2 and 3 year old new cars and trucks on the dealers lots.

BTW , I could have bought a nice 65 mustang convertable in 1973
for $250.00 but I already had a car.

LOL

plus , I bought a cadillac for $15.00 once.
and someone broke down in front of my house and they gave me
the pontiac tempest ( 327 I think ) for a ride to the airport !!!



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49286 - 07/26/13 02:40 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: pokey]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
The value of trucks, Cars ,Houses, in the past is all relative
to the value of that countries currency, at that time.
Today we are tied to the value of the US Dollar.
Yesterday, in Europe, it was the Swiss Franc and various European currencys that were artificially forced to keep within a monetary Euro-snake.

The rates of Exchange today are totally artificial.

I would like to see a Country's Monetary system based upon
the value of its Exports
Its rather like an individual who thru hard work earns more,
and can afford a better life style for his family.

Only in this case, I would like to see the Gross National value
of a Countries Exports, Divided by the Number in its Population
This should give you the true worth a countries currencies
compared to other countrys.

I am not sure how this could be implemented, but it would show the true value of a currency in ones pocket, and therefore
easily allow one to calculate where Goverments, and you, should buy or sell your exports or items from.

For instance the highest rated (value) currency in the World,
should be:- Germany with a rating value of 18,136
Followed by:-Saudi Arabia,rating value of 13,700
Followed by:- Israel ,with rating value of 7,680
Followed by:- the UK, with a value of 7,511
Followed by the USA, with a rated value, 4,936
Then:- Russia, with a rated value of 3,706
Then:- China , with a rated value of 1514

And so on, These are just 7 countries picked out, due to my own interest, thats all nothing else..
It dos'nt matter if the country has massive Exports due to the sale of Oil...
Its Exports Divided by Population...which then shows you the strongest Currencies in order of strength

Below are the Export values ($) by Country

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html

and here are Countries populations:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

So you can work out your own rankings.
Its easy to see now why Germany is the leader and almost supporting the Euro Common Market etc.

I would be interested to know whether anyone can find any value in this idea?
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#49289 - 07/26/13 03:43 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
OK , Rev

it's backed by the current Canadian currency , are the
dollar values tied together or do they fluctuate?

if they are directly tied together then why bother with it
is my first thought.

was there a Canadian currency shortage that inspired the
Toronto dollar?

I haven't read the links you posted yet.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49290 - 07/26/13 04:02 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Originally Posted By: paul
do Canadian laws prevent its people from creating a local monetary system?

and if you were able to legally create a local monetary system
what would the money be backed by? ...

No. A group of us, in October, 1998, set up the first Toronto-dollar system. The mayor--a friend--was present and bought the first dollars.

There has never been any problem with the government--provincially, or federally. The Toronto $ is backed by Canadian currency. The big challenge is getting enough people willing to volunteer to help make the system work well. Human nature being what it is, new ideas often meet resistance. Look how long it took some nations to get rid of slavery--still a problem in some areas, and cultures.
For details, check out http://www.torontodollar.com/

The next challenge? Freedom-loving people need a truly democratic kind of capitalism--one in which money serves us, not the other way round.

For your information, check out the work of Professor Bernard Lietaer. Recently, he addressed a meeting of our group:
http://www.transaction.net
===============================
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#49291 - 07/26/13 04:04 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
those Germans are good.

I have often wondered what the world would be like if there
never was a WW2 or a nazi party.

the only reason there was a WW2 was because of the economy.

the nazi economy demanded war , it's economy was based on being
a ever growing war machine.

those who had money to build economies chose to horde that
money or to put it into other countries.

then again , there might not even be any people in the world
because nuclear bombs would have come into being without knowing the long term effects of a nuclear exchange and if
a really large exchange would have taken place because of the
lack of that knowledge then perhaps no one would have survived.

I don't think we should base our economy on exports only
just because other countries make almost everything we buy these days.

maybe we should use the price of salt in each country and base each countries dollar value on how much salt can be bought with each countries dollar.

its free but it has value , plus it really does not fluctuate much.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49292 - 07/26/13 04:14 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
ABOUT BERNARD LIETAER--with whom I have been in touch, by e-mail, for over a decade: Let's take a look at him and his ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer


Edited by Revlgking (07/26/13 04:20 AM)
Edit Reason: Always helpful
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#49295 - 07/26/13 01:33 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Rev

I browsed the several types of local currency methods at
the transaction.net site.

I have a problem with any currency who's value can be
manipulated by people who have loads of money.

If were looking to stabilize currency then we can not allow
currency to be traded like stocks.

currency has no real value.

its like borrowing money on the papers you get when you take
out a loan at the bank.

money only has value when it is used to purchase a product or service.

a federal reserve note such as a dollar bill is nothing but a loan that is given to the federal reserve banks by the federal reserve ( which is just a few uber rich folk ) and it is the People of the United States who must repay the loan through interest , the People are the collateral taken for security in the loan.

all currencies are worthless until you need to take out a loan
by spending a dollar bill.

to make it really simple , if you have a volume of dollar bill notes that equal 1 million dollars , then you have the right to
put the People of the U.S. 1 million dollars further in debt.

this means that any volume of federal reserve note's sitting
in someone's bank account earning interest causes the amount
that the People of the U.S. owe to the fed to increase by every cent of interest paid to that account.

the federal reserve makes dollars by recording dollar amounts
in their accounting system.

those dollars are nothing but loans to be loaned to the federal reserve banks.

those dollars are then loaned to the federal reserve banks
the federal reserve banks then print out the amount of dollars on the loan.

and the federal reserve banks then loan those dollar notes to federal reserve branch banks.

people can then apply for the right to spend those federal reserve notes by taking out a loan against what they are worth
or the worth of a product.


the federal reserve is a ponzi scheme.
and that's all it is.

the federal reserve
( which is not connected to the United States Government )
was created in 1913 by the uber rich who had been bailing out
the U.S. government for quite some time.

and the U.S. currency became like stocks , that can be bought and sold which caused the value to fluctuate.

it wasnt long after that that the fed approached the U.S.
government and informed them that the government was bankrupt.

the government needed money , so the social security act
was created , this gave the U.S. government a way to pay its
debts to the federal reserve.

the details show that title to every U.S. citizen is used
as collateral in the loans that the Fed grants to the U.S. government.

or something like that.

now for a little conspiracy !!!

LOL

what if , the FEMA camps were built to hold foreclosed upon collected citizen's due to non payment to the fed by the amount of taxes that the government collects that are shuttled directly to the fed ( ponzi scheme )?

what if , the many vacant cities in china were built to house
the foreclosed upon property ( U.S. Citizens ) that belongs
to the fed (ponzi scheme).

so that the fed can place these foreclosed on properties
( U.S. Citizens )into work camps in china in order to recover payment on the unpaid loans.

Bags of Salt Water have value.

MUHAHAHAHAAAAAAA !

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49301 - 07/26/13 10:53 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted Paul,
Quote:
Rev, I browsed the several types of local currency methods at the transaction.net site....
GOOD! for you. You seem open-minded and willing to listen, without prejudice (I hope) to the opinion of others. In the same spirit (that is, pneuma, spiritus, ruach, ruh and whatever) I will listen to you, or to anyone.

BTW, as an amateur & lover of economics, I MAKE NO CLAIM THAT I AM AN EXPERT economist with all those charts.

Therefore, if I appear be dogmatic, or opinionated, feel free--anyone--to let me, and all interested, know.

Paul, as you say,
Quote:
I have a problem with any currency who's value can be manipulated by people who have loads of money.
then you suggest your solution
Quote:
If we are looking to stabilize currency--I assume you mean: the value of the currency we use--then we ought not allow currency to be traded like stocks ... currency has no real value.
I agree and I put it this way: The federal paper, which we call money, or currency, has no intrinsic value. It is simply a record of what the banks says we owe to the lenders and to one another.

Therefore, FIAT money, created by government in cahoots with the banks, is simply an IOU; it is a number on a piece of fancy paper. The number is a statement of what capital we now owe, and the "rent" we need to pay, over time, on any debt we still owe.

This system makes for INFLATION--the thief of all real wealth--INEVITABLE.
=========
Got to go, now! I will be back to comment on your other comments, OK!

============================================

AS YOU SAY,
Quote:
... its like borrowing money on the papers you get when you take out a loan at the bank.

money only has value when it is used to purchase a product or service.

a federal reserve note such as a dollar bill is nothing but a loan that is given to the federal reserve banks by the federal reserve ( which is just a few uber rich folk ) and it is the People of the United States who must repay the loan through interest , the People are the collateral taken for security in the loan.

all currencies are worthless until you need to take out a loan by spending a dollar bill.

to make it really simple , if you have a volume of dollar bill notes that equal 1 million dollars , then you have the right to put the People of the U.S. 1 million dollars further in debt.

This means that any volume of federal reserve note's sitting
in someone's bank account earning interest causes the amount
that the People of the U.S. owe to the fed to increase by every cent of interest paid to that account.

the federal reserve makes dollars by recording dollar amounts
in their accounting system.

those dollars are nothing but loans to be loaned to the federal reserve banks.

those dollars are then loaned to the federal reserve banks
the federal reserve banks then print out the amount of dollars on the loan.

and the federal reserve banks then loan those dollar notes to federal reserve branch banks.

people can then apply for the right to spend those federal reserve notes by taking out a loan against what they are worth
or the worth of a product.


the federal reserve is a ponzi scheme.
and that's all it is. ...


Edited by Revlgking (07/27/13 03:37 AM)
Edit Reason: Always helpful!
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#49303 - 07/27/13 01:51 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
then you suggest a solution


Abraham Lincoln did , then he was assassinated.

John F Kennedy did , then he was assassinated.

both of them wanted to use interest free money.

http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm

Quote:
“If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without a debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. The brains and the wealth of all coun­tries will go to North America. That govern­ment must be destroyed, or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe.
The Bankers obviously understood. The only thing, I repeat, the only thing that is a threat to their power is sovereign govern­ments printing interest-free and debt-free paper money. They know it would break the power of the international Bankers.

In retaliation
After this was published in "The London Times", the British Government, which was controlled by the London and other European Bankers, moved to support the Confederate South, hoping to defeat Lincoln and the Union, and destroy this government which they said had to be destroyed.




President Kennedy was not afraid to “buck the system”, for he understood how the Federal Reserve System was being used to destroy the United States. As a just and honorable man, he could not tolerate such a system, for it smelled corruption from A to Z. Certainly he must have known about the Greenbacks which Abraham Lincoln created when he was in office.
On June 4th, 1963, President Kennedy signed a presidential document, called Exec­utive Order 11110, which further amended Executive Order 10289 of September 19th, 1951. This gave Kennedy, as President of the United States, legal clearance to create his own money to run the country, money that would belong to the people, an Interest and debt-free money. He had printed United States Notes, completely ignoring the Federal Reserve Notes from the private banks of the Federal Reserve.
Our records show that Kennedy issued $4,292,893,825 of cash money. It was perfect­ly obvious that Kennedy was out to under­mine the Federal Reserve System of the United States.
But it was only a few months later, In November of 1963, that the world received the shocking news of President Kennedy's assassination. No reason was given, of course, for anyone wanting to commit such an atrocious crime. But for those who knew anything about money and banking, it did — not take long to put the pieces of the puzzle together. For surely, President Kennedy must have had It in mind to repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and return back to the United States Congress the power to create its own money.
It is interesting to note that, only one day after Kennedy's assassination, all the United States notes, which Kennedy had issued, were called out of circulation. Was this through an executive order of the newly installed president, Lyndon B. Johnson? Was President Johnson afraid of the Bankers? Or was he one of their instruments? At any rate, all of the money President Kennedy had created was destroyed. And not a word was said to the American people.


what we should do is declare war on the city.

and start printing our own money again , and if any harm comes
to anyone involved , we should invade the city and take our spoils.

I personally dont appreciate how the federal reserve system gets its way with us.

but to murder our leaders so that they can charge interest on
the money that we need to operate is disgusting and sick and we should not give the fed one more penney , in fact we should take what we owe them and what we have paid in interest as a measure of kindness and respect to them.







Edited by paul (07/27/13 02:43 AM)
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#49310 - 07/27/13 05:00 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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We need to have a dialogue about the nature and function of violence, OK?

Is it ever justified?

What would Gandhi and Martin Luther King say?
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#49311 - 07/27/13 05:34 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
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I will say that I truly believe that Martin Luther King would try his best to instill and insert into peoples minds that violence is not an answer to any situation , that peaceful negotiations and actions would be the only road to travel or path to pursue.

but I would also like to point out that peace is not always an
option that is brought to the table.

it has been the use of violence that has resolved the major issues between nations throughout history , that does not mean
that we are bound to violence to solve our issues however , it
would greatly please those who finance wars if violence were
again used between nations to settle yet another dispute.

and the only ones who would gain from that war would once again
be those who financed that war.

sometimes the same group of people or entity finance both sides
of a war , so the winner does not matter to them , the only thing that matters to these few people is the gain that they realize through the financing of the war.

I might suggest that the first attack of the war should be the
house of the financiers , that attack might very well be the only attack needed in the war.
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#49313 - 07/27/13 11:10 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: paul
I will say that I truly believe that Martin Luther King would try his best to instill and insert into peoples minds that violence is not an answer to any situation, that peaceful negotiations and actions would be the only road to travel, or path to pursue.
It seems, we are in accord--in harmony, here. Good!

Interestingly, our paths almost crossed. It was later that I learned that MLKing attended Boston University School of Theology (BUST) just before I did. In 1954 MLK graduated as a minister.

That same Fall, I--already a minister of the United Church of Canada, who had finished his first assignment--What a story that is--in Happy Valley (ironically-named) Goose Bay, Labrador--entered BUST.

I entered on a scholarship. It was a two-year post-graduate program. Even NOW, I look back with great pleasure on this excellent experience. It prepared me to work for social justice now, and for the rest of my ministry--ad infinitum.
==========================================
However, I am somewhat dismayed to read what you write next. Please, elaborate on the following:
Quote:
... but I would also like to point out that peace is not always an option that is brought to the table.

it has been the use of violence that has resolved the major issues between nations throughout history , that does not mean
that we are bound to violence to solve our issues however , it
would greatly please those who finance wars if violence were
again used between nations to settle yet another dispute.

and the only ones who would gain from that war would once again
be those who financed that war.

sometimes the same group of people or entity finance both sides
of a war , so the winner does not matter to them , the only thing that matters to these few people is the gain that they realize through the financing of the war.

I might suggest that the first attack of the war should be the
house of the financiers , that attack might very well be the only attack needed in the war.
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#49314 - 07/27/13 11:58 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
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Quote:
Please, elaborate on the following:

sure
Quote:

... but I would also like to point out that peace is not always an option that is brought to the table.

it has been the use of violence that has resolved the major issues between nations throughout history , that does not mean
that we are bound to violence to solve our issues however , it
would greatly please those who finance wars if violence were
again used between nations to settle yet another dispute.

and the only ones who would gain from that war would once again
be those who financed that war.

sometimes the same group of people or entity finance both sides
of a war , so the winner does not matter to them , the only thing that matters to these few people is the gain that they realize through the financing of the war.

I might suggest that the first attack of the war should be the
house of the financiers , that attack might very well be the only attack needed in the war.


what comes around goes around.






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#49316 - 07/28/13 03:47 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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KARMA. The idea makes a lot of sense to me. So it did to the apostle Paul. Here is what he wrote in:

Galatians 6:7-8

Good News Translation (GNT)

7 You will reap exactly what you plant. 8 If you plant in the field of your natural desires, from it you will gather the harvest of death; if you plant in the field of the Spirit, from the Spirit you will gather the harvest of eternal life.
=========================
HOW TO FIND VERSES IN THE BIBLE:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%206:07-8&version=GNT
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#49318 - 07/28/13 01:00 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Orac Offline
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The idea of Karma in my childhood would have got you re-educated .... only the state controls fate no one else smile

Unfortunately many Falun Gong in China are currently learning the price for such beliefs.
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#49319 - 07/28/13 01:35 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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THE BIBLE, KARMA, HISTORY, RELIGION & ECONOMICS.

Right now, Orac, I am on my way to church. http://www.thornhillunitedchurch.ca/Find%20Us%20Map When I return, I will comment on how the above topics are connected. Comments and questions much appreciated smile

BTW, Orac, I am very curious to know more about your experiences and your philosophy of the topics you mentioned, Tell us more, OK?

BTW 2, Adam Smith, who wrote THE WEALTH OF NATIONS and is credited with founding the study of "economics"--from the Greek version of the Bible--wrote as a moral philosopher.
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#49320 - 07/28/13 02:41 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
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Quote:
Unfortunately many Falun Gong in China are currently learning the price for such beliefs.


and those who have disappeared are seen as People who have
paid the price for disloyalty , they have been shamed , which affects their entire family and can financially affect their entire town.

Honor to a Chinese Man is a prized possession that he treasures and his honor is a treasured weapon when viewed by his oppressors.

Karma is making its rounds in China according to the news
some call it "pay back" the People of China are working in a pie factory while starving to death , Karma will exact revenge on those who invoke Karma.

I think China is a beautiful place , filled with wonderful
People who do not fully understand what is happening to them.

the first wave of Karma occurred in the 1989 Tiananmen Square Protests.



Karma was knocking on the door of its invoker.
letting them know that what has come around will now
be going around.

Karma kept this man from being killed as he climbed up onto
the beast and looked the beast in the eye , and as he looked in the eye of the beast what he saw in the heart of the beast was himself.

Quote:
only the state controls fate no one else


but who controls the state?
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#49345 - 07/30/13 06:00 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS ... [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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THE BIBLE, ON WEALTH POWER, SERVANT-HOOD AND MERIT--that which is good, has worth and is of value The Latin is, meritum--that which is earned.

The following is by way of background
===============================
1930 to 1947, I was born, I lived and was raised in NEWFOUNDLAND--then known as, Britain's first and Oldest Colony, which had a population of about 225,000 people.

Because of Depression-based debt, the island and Labrador (twice the area of the island) was forced into bankruptcy and into being governed by a British governor assisted by a panel of six. There were three officials from England and three business leaders from Nfld--all men.

EDUCATION SYSTEM. Interestingly, Nfld (now NL) then had a totally denominational school system. The largest system was owned and operated by the Roman Catholic Church. All other denominations--Anglican, United Church (the system I attended), the Salvation Army, and others--were free to own and operate their own schools. Bible-believing and church-obeying theocrats, in all denominations, loved it. The few who objected to the powers there were simple grumbled to themselves.

In 1947, identified as a British citizen and as a student, I migrated, quite freely, to New Brunswick, Canada. There I attended Mount Allison University www.mta.ca --associated with the United Church. It is in Sackville, NB.

IN MY OPINION, the Bible is not The Word of God For all time TWOGFAT

Jesus did not NOT say: Follow me! I am your lord, king and messiah

"I am among you as one who serves" (Luke 22:27). Also 'minister' means one who serves. All government ministers, including the PM, and the civil servants they appoint, tell us by the title of the office they seek, and accept, that they want to be our servants, not our masters.

I certainly do not expect any servant to be an unjustly rewarded slave; servants deserve to be rewarded, but on what basis? For me this raises a very BIG question about the kingdom of GOD: Is the kingdom of GOD an aristocracy, a democracy, or a meritocracy?

Me? Though I my name is 'King', I abhor aristocracy. I respect democracy, but the more I think about it, the more I like to think we need to have a democratic meritocracy.

Questions: Should the Christian ministry be a kind of democratic meritocracy? Was Jesus a democratic Meritocrat?

What did he think of people who acted our of fear rather than out of faith?

Read the parables of Jesus in the Gospels.
Many of them are about Faithful and/or Unfaithful Servants.

For example, Matthew 25:14-30--The Parable of the Three Servants. Take note of what happened to the servant who said. "I was afraid ... "
=================MORE ON THISxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx JUST FOR STARTERS
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#49346 - 07/30/13 06:48 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS ... [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Another trip off topic, into personal belief and biography?
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#49347 - 07/30/13 09:05 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS ... [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
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Quote:
Because of Depression-based debt, the island and Labrador (twice the area of the island) was forced into bankruptcy and into being governed by a British governor assisted by a panel of six. There were three officials from England and three business leaders from Nfld--all men.


I interpret the above as follows.

(1) the British financial system known as the federal reserve system in the U.S. caused a worldwide depression so that its few members could gain monetary value in the wars that the depression resulted in.

(2) the British government was instructed by the federal reserve system to gain control over these territories before
these territories could merge with the hated United States
government due to its constitutional rights.

(3) I might be wrong but if you follow the money trail (FTMT)
it almost always leads you to the instigator of all financial difficulties (IOAFD)

and that would be those who lower the economy of nations so
that they may prosper in the death of others as they supply
the money that is used to purchase the weapons that are
used to kill and maim on both sides of a war , wars that are the result of nations trying to build up their economy through the building up of their military.

some call it the military industrial complex , industry on a massive scale that employs almost everyone in the nation.

the cost of such an economy is more and more wars for resources to build more weapons.

those are the few who finance wars , the federal reserve system or whatever your nation has decided to call them.

83 years old , congratulations on that Rev.
I know the horizons must look a lot different if you can
still see them that is , if not find a tall tree.

where the view is not obscured.





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#49349 - 07/31/13 06:10 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS ... [Re: paul]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Paul, thanks for your interesting and provocative comments. Take care!

Meanwhile, I have fleshed out, a little, my last post I sent you. I have added some comments about the economics and the politics of the place and time.
Quote:
It was because of the Depression-based debt that the island of Newfoundland, plus mainland Labrador (twice the area of the island), was forced into bankruptcy.

The area was forced to accept being governed by a British governor assisted by a panel of six others. There were three officials from the British parliament and three so-called business "leaders" from St. John's, Nfld--all men. The out-port fishermen were regarded as belonging to the "lesser breeds", without the law.

TAXES?--Acting as corporation, the government had the power to levy heavy taxes on all imports--canned and salted meats, and so on. Thus, people who purchased imported goods paid heavy taxes.

Meanwhile, enterprising locals--willing to live on fish and other local products--were quite happy. Lots of bartering went on.

THE EDUCATION SYSTEM
. Interestingly, Nfld (now NL) then had a totally denominational school system. Based on numbers, the largest system was owned and operated by the Roman Catholic Church. All other denominations--Anglican, United Church (the system I attended), the Salvation Army, and others--were free to own and operate their own schools. Bible-believing and church-obeying theocrats, in all denominations, loved it. The few who objected to the powers there were simple grumbled to themselves.

MEDICARE? Only the few rich--some travelled to Canada, England and the USA--could afford the best of care. The rest were forced to depend on charity, which churches did their best to provide.

HOW I MADE OUT? I lucked out. Despite the fact that I was the seventh of eight children in a working-class-iron-ore mining family, I got to go to university, and did a seven-year program--a BA, plus theology.

In my last year at seminary, I got married--my wife got a job as a teacher. With her help, we went on to the ministry--not a high-paying career in NL--debt-free.

This career began in 1947 (I was 17). Then, identified as a British citizen and as a student, I migrated, quite freely, to New Brunswick, Canada. There I attended Mount Allison University www.mta.ca (where I met my wife)--associated with the United Church. It is in Sackville, NB.

BTW, it was with the efforts of the NL students in Canada that, in 1949, helped bring about Confederation of NL with Canada, as its tenth province. We were honoured with a visit from The Hon. Joseph Smallwood (check his story in WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Smallwood

When we met him, it was more than a brief word. He took the time to chat and name the families who supported him in the small communities from which we came.

Interestingly, most the voters in the merchant-dominated Capital--St.John's (the Baptist day--name of the RC Church)--refused to support him--the little man from Gambo--near the Gander Air Port--an out port.

BTW, with a Methodist background, he was a member of the UC. Politically, he was a LIBERAL--a strong social democrat but a pragmatist, who courted compassionate, conservative capitalists. He admired American know-how and energy. But he was also loyal to England.

Most of all, he loved Newfoundland. I must add, he did make some mistakes in the latter-days of his career.

He was a great orator, who earned his living and made his reputation as a writer, a journalist--once worked in New York city--and as a radio personality.


Edited by Revlgking (07/31/13 06:29 AM)
Edit Reason: Always helpful
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#49355 - 08/01/13 11:06 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS ... [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
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Quote:
TAXES?--Acting as corporation, the government had the power to levy heavy taxes on all imports--canned and salted meats, and so on. Thus, people who purchased imported goods paid heavy taxes.

Meanwhile, enterprising locals--willing to live on fish and other local products--were quite happy. Lots of bartering went on.


lots of bartering went on , and this led to local businesses
who hired local workers , who paid taxes.

and imported goods were seen as something that would destroy
the local businesses that formed.

so people worked local jobs , bought local goods , and paid
local taxes.

with imports the local jobs diminish , the local goods diminish
and the taxes also diminish.

heavy tariffs would be a great thing to happen in the U.S.
because all except the uber rich would gain.

but the first thing that would have to happen would be the
removal of those who would fight against a strong U.S. economy as they have been fighting against a strong U.S. economy ever since tariffs were removed or weakened which led to jobs and factories being moved to countries with an extremely low wage employee base.

import tariffs are good for a country , they inspire business
within a country.
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#49361 - 08/03/13 11:04 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Paul, I assume that you ask me a question, when you say:
Quote:
... so people worked at local jobs, bought local goods ,and paid local taxes?
As I recall the story of what happened, it was as follows. It was not until 1949--that was when we Newfoundlanders--As a student in NB, Canada, I was one of the vanguard leaders--took over the main-land known as, Canada. That was in March, 1949--Just a JOKE, eh? laugh

But seriously, the vote to confederate with Canada was won by just around 700 votes. The fact that NL students in the Canadian universities got involved and rallied to the cause made the difference needed to win the day.

Only after that, were families and/or individuals obligated to file the kind of personal tax forms we are supposed to file, today...with the NEW provincial authorities.... Stay tuned!



Edited by Revlgking (08/04/13 02:54 AM)
Edit Reason: Always helpful
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#49365 - 08/04/13 04:00 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Revlgking Offline
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PAUL, CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO ON HOW BANKING GOT OFF TRACK IN CANADA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7HMt5MgsDg
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#49397 - 08/11/13 04:35 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
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Rev

That is a Very Good and Very Revealing Video.

so the banking system in Canada is exactly the same as the
banking system in the U.S.

and both are owned by the same few uber rich people.

if the government in Canada needs money for any reason
it just writes bonds and gives the bonds to the banking system.

GIVES THE BONDS AWAY FOR FREE.

then the Canadian banking system

LOANS THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT OF THE BONDS

but

THEY CHARGE THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT INTEREST ON THE LOAN.

charging interest for the money that the banking system created
by writing the exact dollar amount of the bonds in the banking systems accounting system.

so basically there are no uber rich people , and what we think are uber rich people are nothing more than crooks who have a really sweet racket that is protected by our governments politicians and our governments laws made by those same politicians.

and the money is illegal in both the U.S. and Canada.

according to both of our Constitutions.

is that pretty much the way you see it?



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#49419 - 08/14/13 01:13 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: paul
Rev, That is a Very Good and Very Revealing Video.

... so the banking system in Canada is exactly the same as the
banking system in the U.S....

... basically there are no uber rich people, and what we think are uber rich people are nothing more than crooks who have a really sweet racket that is protected by our governments politicians and our governments laws made by those same politicians.

and the money is illegal in both the U.S. and Canada.

according to both of our Constitutions.

is that pretty much the way you see it?
My approach, Paul? Perhaps I would not start with the use of ad hominems--that is, personal attacks on the central bankers appointed to run our banking system.

LET US HAVE AN OPEN-ENDED DIALOGUE

======================================

Much more than having a debate, I love having a dialogue: It is a win/win game--one about asking questions to and sharing information from all involved.

Debating? It is more of a regulated win/lose kind of game--I win! You lose! There is little, or no room, to have a dialogue.

Using the dialogue form, let us begin this dialogue on the political economy by asking questions to those, we elected to office.

For example, as a Canadian, I want to know about our central bank--the Bank of Canada (BOC).

I want to know: Who has the power to act and create new money?

Is it the appointed governor of the bank?
Or, is it the finance minister of parliament?

Who has the right to have the monopoly of credit?
The banks?

Or is it parliament?

Knowledge. What about knowledge of how money is created:
Does any one person, or group, have the right to the monopolize the knowledge about how this happens?

CHECK OUT WHAT HAPPENED IN 1816

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/guernsey_experiment
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#49450 - 08/16/13 04:00 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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ANYONE IN THIS FORUM TRAINED IN ECONOMICS?
==========================================
If so, are you aware of the work of Hazel Henderson?

If not, take a look at this info from the past (2003)
https://fp.auburn.edu/tann/hazel/index.htm

Reading this a decade ago helped me understand:
1. What I needed to know about the nature and function of money.
2. How this useful tool has been wrongly used to create the present debt-based fiat money system, which is no friend of democracy.
3. Why we desperately need a democratic monetary system.
4. Without it we will never have the freedom and justice all good-willed people, including the well off, crave.

A DIVIDEND-BASED SYSTEM, NOT DEBT-BASED ONE, IS WHAT WE NEED
============================================================
A dividend-based system is one that creates wealth, not debt. With it, the sub-prime mortgage crisis of 2008 would have been avoided. I said as much at the time.

It is no wonder that the term 'mortgage' literally means 'death pledge (gamble)'. And note how closely the term 'bond' is related to bondage.

A dividend system--as outlined in The Parable of the Three servants in Matthew 25--encourages people with money to invest it in helping people help themselves, not in placing them in bondage to debt.

By now, all readers of this thread ought to be aware that the fiat and debt-based system allows central banks to literally create and loan out money that they do not really have in their vaults?

The next time you borrow money to buy a car, or a home, ask your banker to give you a tour of the vault where the bank keeps all that paper cash they own and are prepared to loan you. Unless I miss my guess, I predict that they will refuse to do so. smile

However, if a miracle happens and they do honour your request, then ask them: Who created all that cash? Need I say more? By the way, I remember when each bank printed their own paper cash. Banks also promised to give you silver and/or gold for your paper. How come that all changed? Very interesting. Hmmm! Makes one wonder!

But be the above as it may, the Bank of Canada (BOC) is a convenient tool of the chartered banks--The Royal Bank, The Scotia Bank, The CIBC, and so on--of Canada.

In the USA, our American cousins have the Federal Reserve banking system. It is the tool of the commercial banks.

When the economy is booming both systems work relatively well. However, when thing go bust: who do you think is responsible for picking up the tab? Taxpayers. Any comments and questions?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#49452 - 08/16/13 07:42 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
ABOUT THE POLITICS OF MONEY--Hazel Henderson
========================================
http://www.hazelhenderson.com/editorials/politics_of_money.html
===============================================================

THINGS I HAVE LEARNED FROM READING HAZEL HENDERSON

1. I have learned that economics--about the way we manage ourselves and the homes we, as families live in, including our communities, cities, provinces, nations and so on--has always been politics in disguise.

2. We are political human beings, not just instinct-dependent animal beings. We must not forget that politics is about the raising--using the awesome power to tax self and others--and the spending of public money.

3. By now we know that some or our political leaders have failed us. For their own selfish reasons, they have given away too much of the power that ought to remain in the hands of voters who believe in democracy to certain professional economists, who "dominate public policy and trump so many other academic disciplines" (Henderson) and values in our daily lives.

4. Happily, all this focus on and awareness of the role of money is leading to a new and wide-spread awareness of what it is and, when used wisely is not the "root of all evil". Thomas Carlyle, who called economics the "dismal science", was wrong. Economics is neither a science, nor does it ever need to be a dismal topic.

5. Understanding the ways that money is designed, created and manipulated can help us design, create and manipulate it in ways that serve the public good and thus bring wealth, justice, peace and prosperity to all of us.

At last, this new awareness is helping more and more of us to really understand what money is and how best to use it.

6. Civic actions with local currencies--what I like to call complementary community currencies (CCC)--using barter, community credit and the more dubious rash of digital cybernetic-money all reveal that we must make the effort to understand the politics of money.

Henderson has written that, citizens all over the world--especially the Muslim world, I add--are rejecting malfunctioning economic source codes and operating systems: the World Bank, the IMF, the WTO and imperious central banks.

Its hard-wired program: the now derided “Washington Consensus” recipe for hyping GNP-growth is challenged by the Human Development Index (HDI), Ecological Footprint Analysis, the Living Planet Index, the Calvert-Henderson Quality of Life Indicators, the Genuine Progress Index and Bhutan’s Gross National Happiness … not to mention scores of local city indices such as Jacksonville, Florida’s Quality Indicators for Progress, pioneered by the late Marian Chambers in 1983.
=======================================================

IN THE BEGINNING, ALL MONEY WAS MADE OF THINGS--ANIMALS, SLAVES, HIDES, OILS, METALS AND THE LIKE ...
============================================
As with politics, all real money was always, and is even now, local. It was created by people to facilitate exchange, transactions and based on trust.

The story of how this useful invention, money, grew into abstract national fiat currencies backed only by the promises of rulers and central bankers is now being told anew.

We witness how modern information technology and deregulation of banking and finance in the 1980s helped create today’s monstrous global casino, where $1.15 trillion worth--and growing--of fiat currencies slosh around the planet, daily, via mouse clicks on electronic exchanges. 90% of this is in purely speculative trading.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#49467 - 08/18/13 04:19 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
The U.S. Congress still has the legal ability
to cause money to be printed by the U.S. Government
without having to borrow money from the crooked
federal reserve system ( central banks ).

and parliament also retains this legal ability I believe.

what I cant really understand is the legality of the U.S.
treasury creating treasury bonds in order to borrow money.

when the U.S. Government is obviously bankrupt.

and likewise the Canadian Government is also bankrupt.

we are both bankrupt because of the interest our Governments
must pay on these worthless bonds our Governments create.

we must pay what is called a coupon payment on the bonds
that the treasury department has created and given to the
federal reserve crooks so that they can charge us interest.

its an extremely stupid thing that our leaders are doing to
the people who elect them.

and like you seem to be saying , if the people understood what
was happening then they would demand that our Governments
printed their own money and stopped giving away treasury bonds to the federal reserve (crooks)/ central bank (crooks).

after all , either way its done , the Government is still liable for the dollars it has approved and placed into circulation , whether they are dollar amounts entered into the crooks accounting system or actual currency that reads
United States Note.
or
Canadian Note.

vs federal reserve note or bank of Canada note

when you think about it , if anyone or any group of people
knows the financial situation of the U.S. and Canada it would
be the federal reserve system and the Canadian bank.

they know that each country is bankrupt!!!!!

why would a bank loan money to a bankrupt country?

because they are crooks!

and they have taken a risk ( not really ) in loaning these two
governments the money they created by writing the amount they were loaning in an accounting system.

a risk that they would be paid back the money with interest.

so , investments are always a risk , even crooked investments
are risky.

what would prove to me that our leaders are complete idiots
would be for them to continue to allow these crooks to continue their money making racket that cost the citizens of our countries billions of dollars every month.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#49471 - 08/18/13 09:23 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: paul]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Paul, thanks for your response. Would you have time to PM me, or to give me call about what you just wrote to me? It could be helpful, to both of us, OK! If so, I could PM my phone number.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#53249 - 10/23/14 01:31 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
MEDIA ALL: All media lovers need your help
Recently, I sent this to cbc.ca/@thecurrent
===========================================
M & M & M and M--Media, Mission, Moderator & Messages--are we getting the all important messages out to a world in need?
================
About a better way to do politics and economics
THE FOLLOWING IS A PARABLE

Let's pretend that we are birds and live in a world with nothing but birds--no humans, cats whatever. Government? Of course! There are two dominant groups of us: We now have a two-party system, which is made up of the powerful eagles and hawks who have formed a coalition with efficient and hard-working vultures--predators all.

Some of us are white, some black, some grey, many are beautiful and multicoloured ones, whatever. But we need a third party.

We predators, BTW, when we are hungry for a meal and power will always take any victim we want and is available, including birds, especially those small enough to be attacked and eat. It matters not. We birds who happen to have left and right wings that are powerful, and in balance, will never grow hungry or lack power. We have no interest in having a democratic system.

But what if, in the fullness of time, enough birds got together and convinced a group of wise and powerful owls--also efficient predators--to fight for and win the right to be a third party in parliament. The fact that at night the young of the eagles/hawks and vultures were easy game for the owls forced the parties in control to accept the owls presence as a third and balancing party which eventually won power. The name agreed on at a convention of the Owls was:

The Feathers Party
Eventually, parliament even agreed to elect a wise female owl as president. She convinced
parliament to vote for the following bill, which was called:

SAVE THE FUTURE FOR ALL BIRDS, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG

Proudly she announced,"From now on, there will be a third party available. And don't forget the need for feathers. Without feathers, especially the tail feathers, birds with the strong instinct to migrate to their feeding grounds would not be able to take flight and do so. Tail feathers act as rudders over and around storms and other obstacles.

"With the power to select wise feathers (male and female) the main job of government is to keep things in balance, for all birds: Feathers, after all, are needed to cover the whole bird, including the wings.

The important bill even contained the ruling, "Parliament will no more be exclusively controlled by the powerful left wingers and/or the right wingers, only. And no more fighting between the wings. It is not good for the future of prosperity and the economy."

About democracy in general? This is the kind of policy needed to encourage more and more voters to turn out and help give us a GOOD and BALANCED DEMOCRACY--filled with the hope of life, liberty and the pursuit of prosperity for all.

===============
John Milton said: "Opinion is belief in the making." I agree! Therefore, IMO, God is NOT a being with dimensions. I believe that G O D is Being--all being, without dimensions, which Generates, Organizes & Delivers that which is Good, Optimistic & Delightful.

RevLindsayG King Markham, Thornhill, 905-764-1125
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#53251 - 10/24/14 01:42 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
RE: Economics

We are approaching one of the most contentious elections I can recall in my short time here on Earth. The election this November will determine whether the United States will be governed by politicians who are responsible to the people, or by the puppets of the obscenely rich who want to eliminate many of the progressive steps our nation has taken to make the life of the middle class better. We are faced with a choice between democracy and oligarchy. I don't care how you vote, I care that you DO vote. Make your voice heard. It's the economy, stupid. Vote, before that right is taken away. The country you save may be your own.
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#53253 - 10/25/14 10:19 PM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
in my short time here on Earth.


just how young are you , Amaranth?

I'm going to vote for one of the people we can vote for when I
vote , not that it will improve anything.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#53281 - 10/29/14 05:48 AM Re: Science-based ECONOMICS--Take a LOOK, OK!........ [Re: Revlgking]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
I'm young enough to still have hope for the world. And old enough to realize that the world is pessimistically hopeless.

Oh, did you mean years? Try the only even prime number to the 3rd power x the largest prime number less than ten + the smallest prime number.

Anything else you'd like to know? ;-)
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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