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SOMA-PSYCHE-PNEUMA & The Greatest of These is...?

By now, most of you bright posters and readers of SAG0GO--note, I use 0 to O (from nothing to infinity)--know what I mean when I talk about SPP: The English words are BODY,MIND,SPIRIT (BMS). Interestingly, in French, the words (mots) are CORPS, ESPRIT, ESPRIT (for males) and AME (for females).

Of course I am an avid seeker of, and after, truth, wherever it is to be found--naturally, I seek it with the help of philosophy, the sciences and all the great and lively arts.

At this point, I readily admit: I do know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know about the interconnection between body, mind and spirit. Does such an interconnection exist? Because of the body component, I also ask:

IS THIS A QUESTION JUST FOR THE SCIENCES?

The sciences can now tell us a lot things about the physical body as a mechanism--about our brain and its extension, the nervous system.

But does science say anything to us about the way the body as a mechanism interacts with us as persons (minds and spirits)? About what it means to be, or not to be, a person?

BTW, I have discovered that, there is a lot of soul-searching and confusion going on in all modern languages about the kind of words we use when we talk about what is means to be a human being, a person.

Other than having animal-like physical bodies, in what ways do we share any of the following with members of what we call the animal kingdom?: The idea of person-hood, spirit, mind, soul, ego, the idea of ghosts, individuality, consciousness, conscience, intellect, character, memory, emotions, passions, the ability to be aware, to be consciously attentive, to have faith, hope, love, fear, hate and the power to will, and so on.

In my opinion, the more we integrate the categories we call body, mind and spirit into a oneness, the more we will discover what I like to call the TRI-unity of our being--le composant (component) extraordinaire, as the French put it.

As Thomas H. Huxley, Darwin's bulldog, put it in 1887, "The known is finite, the unknown infinite; we stand on an islet in the midst of an illimitable ocean of inexplicability. Our business in every generation is to claim a little more land."
===================
A thread based on the book, THE UNIVERSE WITH WITHIN--From Quantum To Cosmos, by physicist, Neil Turok.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/book...article4623367/

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/16/13 09:39 PM. Reason: Always helpful

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

By now, most of you bright posters and readers of SAG0GO--note, I use 0 to O (from nothing to infinity)--know what I mean when I talk about SPP: The English words are BODY,MIND,SPIRIT (BMS).

I'm sure you have your idea about what a body and a mind is, yet I don't think you can define spirit nor do you know the extent of it as it is.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Interestingly, in French, the words (mots) are CORPS, ESPRIT, ESPRIT (for males) and AME (for females).

Corps referes to discipline and Esprit refers to the nature of mind or spirit of mind. Not the "spirit" within all things.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Of course I am an avid seeker of, and after, truth, wherever it is to be found--naturally, I seek it with the help of philosophy, the sciences and all the great and lively arts.

Appearance is a wonderful magician, an extraordinary deceiver, capable of convincing our hearts and minds of the strangest lies... if we attempt to apply the standards of sensual perception in an attempt to understand our position and role in the Universe, we will necessarily fall far short of learning anything of much importance. How to align our understanding with the Cosmic and Universal Forces instead of with the gross material world reported to us by our senses is the whole purpose of inner growth.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

At this point, I readily admit: I do know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know about the interconnection between body, mind and spirit.

Got that. Pretty obvious actually.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Does such an interconnection exist? Because of the body component, I also ask:

IS THIS A QUESTION JUST FOR THE SCIENCES?

If science is like you in that it only goes so far, then the answer it gives is not likely to be outside of the current box of belief and experience.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

The sciences can now tell us a lot things about the physical body as a mechanism--about our brain and its extension, the nervous system.

But does science say anything to us about the way the body as a mechanism interacts with us as persons (minds and spirits)? About what it means to be, or not to be, a person?

Spirits as in Esprit de corps? They have pills for that you know. Pills to elevate and suppress spirit. (If we are still going by your example using the French word for Spirit)
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, I have discovered that, there is a lot of soul-searching and confusion going on in all modern languages about the kind of words we use when we talk about what is means to be a human being, a person.

You've been great example of that confusion.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Other than having animal-like physical bodies, in what ways do we share any of the following with members of what we call the animal kingdom?: The idea of person-hood, spirit, mind, soul, ego, the idea of ghosts, individuality, consciousness, conscience, intellect, character, memory, emotions, passions, the ability to be aware, to be consciously attentive, to have faith, hope, love, fear, hate and the power to will, and so on.

In my opinion, the more we integrate the categories we call body, mind and spirit into a oneness, the more we will discover what I like to call the TRI-unity of our being--le composant (component) extraordinaire, as the French put it.

Ah the components of UNITY (sticking to the french versions of your defining principals)
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

As Thomas H. Huxley, Darwin's bulldog, put it in 1887, "The known is finite,
The limit to what you have decided and accept as you can go no further.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
the unknown infinite;

And the unknown is that which lay beyond where you draw a line in the sand:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I do know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know
'nuff said..


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
we stand on an islet in the midst of an illimitable ocean of inexplicability. Our business in every generation is to claim a little more land."

How much land we claim is always a choice. And interpretation of what we have claimed is always based on perception of reality.


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Quote:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I do know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know.
Fallible that I am, I omitted The word NOT. Here is what I wanted to say:
Quote:
I do NOT know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know.
And Turok's book? Omit 'WITH'. The title is THE UNIVERSE WITHIN.

BTW, in his book, Neil Turok makes it clear that he is not an admirer of the shallow arguments made by anti-theistic writers like Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens, and others.

On page 246 of his book, Turok particularly mentions Lawrence Krauss's recent book, A UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING, which Dawkins quotes to defend his point of view.

Turok quotes the review in the New York Times, by the philosopher David Albert--a deep thinker on quantum theory:"All that gets offered (by Krauss et al) is "the pale, small, silly accusation that religion is, I don't know, dumb."


Last edited by Revlgking; 01/17/13 04:56 AM. Reason: Always helpful

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I do know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know.
Fallible that I am, I omitted The word NOT. Here is what I wanted to say:
Quote:
I do NOT know nearly as much as I would like to know, need to know and ought to know.
And Turok's book? Omit 'WITH'. The title is THE UNIVERSE WITHIN.

Freudian slip? wink

And there is still the Esprit de Corps thing you reference as spirit, and the gender of either male or female that you also insinuate into spirit.

Senior moment maybe....


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THE IMAGINATION, REALITY AND OUR QUANTUM PC-LIKE SOMATIC BRAIN AND NERVOUS SYSTEM

--As Turok puts it: "QUANTUM physics teaches us that, in a very real sense, We live in an image reality." (p.95)

BEGIN WITH A GNOMON--an indicator, like a sundial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomon
The gnomon is the part of a sundial that casts the shadow. Gnomon is an ancient Greek word meaning "indicator", "one who discerns," or "that which ...(imagines and points the way)

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/


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In his book, it seems to me that Turok implies that we human beings are quantum computers. Our bodies are the hardware; our brains and nervous system are the software and our minds, souls, or spirits, operate the system--for good, or ill.

WOW! Is it possible that this is so? Or is this just a crazy idea?



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Quote:
In his book, it seems to me that Turok implies that we human beings are quantum computers.


Three questions come to mind here:

1. Does he define a human being?

2. Does he define a quantum computer?

3. Is he simply saying that what he considers to be a quantum computer is, in his opinion, bringing computing more into line with what he believes is the intrinsic functioning of his concept of a human being?

Just thought I'd get that in before TT did.


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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Quote:
In his book, it seems to me that Turok implies that we human beings are quantum computers.


Three questions come to mind here:

1. Does he define a human being?

2. Does he define a quantum computer?

3. Is he simply saying that what he considers to be a quantum computer is, in his opinion, bringing computing more into line with what he believes is the intrinsic functioning of his concept of a human being?

Just thought I'd get that in before TT did.

Is there such a thing as a quantum computer and...
Does the Reverend know what a quantum computer is?

I'm sure he'll like to fit it in with his definitions of spirit, soul and psyche whatever it is.. or just get someone to have a discussion with him so he can talk about himself and his beliefs.
It is what he claimed as the reason to write anyting here, (wanting attention rather than expanding upon any of subject matter).


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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Quote:
In his book, it seems to me that Turok implies that we human beings are quantum computers.
Three questions come to mind here:
1. Does he define a human being?
2. Does he define a quantum computer?
3. Is he simply saying that what he considers to be a quantum computer is, in his opinion, bringing computing more into line with what he believes is the intrinsic functioning of his concept of a human being?

Just thought I'd get that in before TT did.
Bill S, thanks for the warning. I predict that TT will do his best to allow his "EGO"--any time he feels the need--to sock-it-to my BIG EGO so that it will feel ashamed blush and cry and then be confused or go crazy and, of course get angry mad But, thanks to you I will suggest to my BIG ego, which loves attention, to remain cool cool
Quote:

BTW, here is how my EGO feels when I try to read the expansions of important subjects by ??? I feel tired and sleep...ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz.......... HMMM! What were you saying about (wanting attention rather than expanding upon any of subject matter)? smile .
Eh, Bill S, thanks for your comment and questions. And of course, whenever I read any of TT's interruptions, my EGO comes fully awake.



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But seriously, Turok writes quite a bit on what are called imaginary units, or numbers.

See pages 72-75, 92, 93-95, 168, 206. On pages 94-95, he defines time as an imaginary dimension of space.

For example, he mentions the unit named, i, which he defines as the square root of -1. It is profoundly related to the notion of time. (Page 95)

In chapter III, WHAT BANGED, he describes how Einstein's theory of special relativity unified time with space into a whole called "space time".

"Mathematics is our "third eye,"" he writes, "allowing us to see and understand how things work in realms so remote from our experience that they cannot be visualized. Mathematicians are often viewed as unworldly, working in a dreamed up, artificial setting. But quantum physics teaches us, we all live in and imaginary world.(page 95)"


Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_%28imaginary_unit%29

Quote:
Imaginary unit
From Wikipedia, (Redirected from I (imaginary unit))
... i in the complex or cartesian plane. Real numbers lie on the horizontal axis, and imaginary numbers lie on the vertical axis.

In mathematics, the imaginary unit or unit imaginary number allows the real number system R to be extended to the complex number system C, which in turn provides at least one root for every polynomial P(x) (see algebraic closure and fundamental theorem of algebra).

The imaginary unit is most commonly denoted by i. The imaginary unit's core property is that i2 = −1. The term "imaginary" is used because there is no real number having a negative square.

There are in fact two complex square roots of −1, namely i and −i, just as there are two complex square roots of every other real number, except zero, which has one double square root.

In contexts where i is ambiguous or problematic, j or the Greek ι (see alternative notations) is sometimes used. In the disciplines of electrical engineering and control systems engineering, the imaginary unit is often denoted by j instead of i, because i is commonly used to denote electric current in these disciplines.

For a history of the imaginary unit, see Complex number: History.


Equilibrium point NOW ABOUT THE TILDE, ~ ,In mathematics , the point \tilde\mathbf x\in \mathbb R^n is an equilibrium point for the differential equation :\ frac d\mathbf x dt \ ...
2 KB (241 words) - 14:16, 5 January 2013

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/24/13 04:47 AM. Reason: Always helpful

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
quantum physics teaches us,we all live in and imaginary world.

Perfect testimony to all that you hold dear to yourself, and what you hoped to leave behind as a testimony to the personal accomplishment.
An Imagined biography in personal idealism.

Congrats Rev, you finally got to something relevant about yourself and the world around you.

Now if you could only discover something about yourself that is real, (so to speak).

Perhaps the face you wore before you were born, and the one you will wear after you leave this imagined world behind.
The Face of the Knower within the known, in the process of knowing.
The Face of THAT which is before the idol was created, and remains when the idol turns to dust.
The face without the need for a tilde.


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Rev, I'm sure there there are those to whom the Wiki definition of "i" makes sense; possibly you are one of them. This is nearer my level of understanding.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/imaginary-numbers.html


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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Rev, I'm sure there there are those to whom the Wiki definition of "i" makes sense; possibly you are one of them. This is nearer my level of understanding.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/imaginary-numbers.html
THE FOLLOWING IS SIMPLY MY OPINION: I use the acronym in my signature to refer to that which I think of as a universal mainframe computer (UMC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_mainframe
operating at the heart of this imperfect universe in which we--not yet complete beings--live, move and have our being.

This IMPERFECT universe is evolving, unfolding, in the same way that we are. In the process, we have a choice: We can evolve and grow, or we can devolve and go extinct.

Recently, using the "imagination" function of my Quantum PC, I connected and you responded with the answer I needed, many thanks. GREAT STUFF!

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/26/13 04:53 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
THE FOLLOWING IS SIMPLY MY OPINION:
Great thing about opinions is: EVERYONE HAS THEM. Not just one but a lifetime of them.

Testimony to an imperfect universe?
Perhaps the reason one believes they are incomplete is because of the diversity in thought that keeps one looking for the heart of the universe in an ideal opinion.

Knowing God and knowing of God appears to be different in both realisation and experience, huh.


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Bill S,
Quote:
Three questions come to mind here:
1. Does he define a human being?
2. Does he define a quantum computer?
3. Is he simply saying that what he considers to be a quantum computer is, in his opinion, bringing computing more into line with what he believes is the intrinsic functioning of his concept of a human being?
answering them: Back to you, soon, about your questions
1.
2.
3.
BTW, whenever I check a topic in WIKI, I always find it interesting, and helpful to check the TALK-section.

There I find what individuals, persons, pneuman beings, self-aware human beings, self-conscious persons--some experts or otherwise--are saying to one another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer


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MOORE'S LAW
Quote:
The observation made in 1965 by Gordon Moore, co-founder of Intel, that the number of transistors per square inch on integrated circuits had doubled every year since the integrated circuit was invented.

Moore predicted that this trend would continue for the foreseeable future. In subsequent years, the pace slowed down a bit, but data density has doubled approximately every 18 months, and this is the current definition of Moore's Law, which Moore himself has blessed.

Most experts, including Moore himself, expect Moore's Law to hold for at least another two decades.
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/Moores_Law.html

On page 237 of his book, Neil Turok writes that since the 1960's the evolution of digital computers has been inexorable--there is no stopping it simply by shouting at our computers. Or by asking the theistic gods to look after us.

Because of Moore's laws, computers are becoming progressively closer and closer to our heads.

And I assume he is referring to what is going on in our heads.

"Our future evolution will depend less and less on our biological genes, and more and more on our abilities to interact with our computers. The future battle for survival will be to program or be programmed."

He describes human beings as analogue creatures based upon a digital code--not conducive to progressive evolution.

Next, I will outline what he says, "will represent a giant leap forward." (page 238)


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
MOORE'S LAW[quote]

"Our future evolution will depend less and less on our biological genes, and more and more on our abilities to interact with our computers. The future battle for survival will be to program or be programmed."

He describes human beings as analogue creatures based upon a digital code--not conducive to progressive evolution.

And who is writing this code that gives the appearance of evolution in cognitive function, and the form that applies to interaction with the construct?
IF it depends less on genetic format and becomes a different code, then when does one have authority over the other and, who programmed the DNA codes?

Do you actually buy into this stuff, and where are you wanting to go with it?


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"THE GIANT LEAP FORWARD"

This is a dramatic phrase which Turok uses on page 338.

WE NEED TO COMBINE BOTH ANALOGUE AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES
Then he writes enthusiastically of the "possibility of a coming "Quantum Age"--Or are we already on the verge?--in which, if we are truly wise enough, we will focus on THE HUMANITY OF SCIENCE, something which has been of great interest to me all my life.

Amazingly, after saying that we will converse with quantum computers--asking questions and getting answers--he says, (at the beginning of page 239): We "shall be the 'operating system' of quantum life. WOW! Sounds GÕD-like to me. What a dangerous, awful and tremendous opportunity to do evil, or good. As he says, "the future will be what we make it? (bottom of page 339)

IMHO, many great visionary souls have already been there and done that, but we have been too dim witted, too closed-minded, too blind and too deaf to see and to hear. Maybe Turok will help us WAKE UP!

Here is a great link to what he says:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/10/09/sci-massey-lectures-neil-turok.html

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/30/13 06:01 AM. Reason: Always helpful

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
"THE GIANT LEAP FORWARD"
"the future will be what we make it?
Oh My GÕD!!! How profound!!!

Who'da thunk... blush


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Bill S, et al:
I predict our resident "genius"--what's her/his name?--will say something very "WISE" about Turok's book, eh? laugh


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