Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Not-Quite-Science Forum Magnetism & Gravity

Can I examine the machine personally in detail? That includes the table it is sitting on.

Bill Gill

Entertaining, but useless.

I find it hard to lend credibility to a guy who has another video of the Boyle flask, that has wires coming out of the back.

Perpetual motion and free energy are myths manno. Even if it ran for 1000 years, it's still not perpetual.

Metal corrodes and wears down, magnets lose magnetism.

I would think, the only possible things that could be remotely considered perpetual, are things without tangible, measurable, factors.

Like thought, stupidity, consciousness, some gods. But even so, that just gets into philosophy. Does anything exist if there is nothing to perceive it?

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around, does Paul call it perpetual motion?

Questions for the ages.

if this wheel is not battery powered , it clearly shows free energy.

perpetual motion would be something impossible to attain , such as the earth rotating around the sun , or the moon rotating around the earth , etc..

eventually they will not do that.

but as far as we are concerned they are in perpetual motion.

but don't you believe in evolution?

and wouldn't evolution fall under the category of things you listed below?



evolution exist to the evolutionist cults in science and it
has no thing that is there to be percieved that shows evolution , therefore why can't you believe in thing's that
you actually see?

when you so freely believe in things that you cannot see.

you would need to ask the guy who own's the machine.

its not his idea however it was patented back in the early 1800's according to the video.

I can see how it works , its really easy to see that.

if you are blinded by laws then your mind will reject it and
you will never be capable of comprehending the way it works.

its clear that the magnet is pulling on the ball.
the ball must roll upwards along the track to get to the magnet.
the ball is placing friction against the wheel as it rolls up
the track.

and this causes the wheel to turn.

but Bill , don't concern yourself trying to
figure it out its wayyy tooooo much harder to think about than
special relativity n such.

I asked about personally examining the machine because it has been know for people to build fake perpetual motion machines. I have read of one where a man built a machine that really worked. Nobody could figure out how it worked until they disassembled the whole setup and found the air tubes in the table legs. So before I would believe in a perpetual motion machine I would have to be able to examine it in detail. That would include complete disassembly if the way it is powered doesn't show up on a quick exam.

Bill Gill

I agree there are a lot of fake perpetual motion machines
on the internet , and I would need to really study one before
I would claim that it works.

but this one really looks like it could work to me.

I'm not claiming that it really does work.

I just thought it would make a nice conversation piece.

I have placed this item in the "Not quite Science" section.
(I should have placed it in the Science Fiction category.
its certainly not science)

Its easy to see why the whole idea is phoney.
A/Place the magnet as close to the metal ball as possible,
without touching the wheel.
B/ In this position the (aluminium) wheel is gripped firmly by
the magnetic flux in-between the ball and magnet.
It will be difficult to turn the wheel by hand, due to the outward pressure of the ball (friction)on the wheel.
C/The experimenter cleverly pulls the magnet away from the
ball, just enough for it to be gently attracted in the magnets direction, and gives the wheel a quick turn by hand.
You will notice the experimenter stops the wheel as soon as its
initial inertia dies down and the wheel would be noticed to slow. QED.

P.S
There has been no category for 'Perpetual Motion' in the Euro-
Patent Office, for some years now.
Though I believe Perpetual Motion can still be patented in the USA

are you saying that the aluminum wheel will resist movement
because of the magnetic field that the magnet causes?

how does that happen to a non ferrous material such as
aluminum , mike?

if your going to move threads away from the general science forum you should have a valid reason other than any personal
discrimination that you might have.

also:



if you watched the video you can clearly see that at 1:28 into
the video he uses only the magnet to start the wheel turning
as his other hand is in the video on the table.



to be honest and fair not to mention scientific about it , I would think that you should put the thread back in the general science forum.

unless you can provide some evidence other than what
you have provided.

aluminum frame electric motors , they must work because
they sell aluminum frame electric motors everywhere , maybe they just didn't realize that the magnetic flux would keep
the aluminum frame motors from turning because of the grip
that the magnetic flux has on the aluminum.

https://www.google.com/#q=aluminum+frame...066&bih=514

moving this thread to the NQS forum does show what scientist
are all about these days however , let it stay here to show
the readers how to sweep things under the science rug when
they happen across something that they cannot comprehend.

stupid smart people

I once saw the most efficient ever car designed it had frictionless wheels and an aerodynamics so it felt no wind resistance at all so once moving it ran without energy for miles.

The designers assured me it would be on the market as the first zero energy car as soon as they could work out how to stop the wheels spinning and get it to move.

I do not know if the wheel is aluminium or not Paul, it does not say.
But trying to con people that a steel ball is trying to climb up the inside of a wheel, with the help of a magnet, the climb keeping the wheel turning after a convenient push....is the
usual 'Perpetual Motion' con.

As it happens...try to spin an aluminium disk, with a horseshoe
magnet across its edge face. It wont spin will it?
Or try to get a small aluminium pendelum to swing across the internal face of a horseshoe magnet. It wont will it?

well mike, I believe you have found the reason it wont work!

all you need to do is make up stupid idiotic imaginary reasons
why it wont work , and then in your mind it wont work.

just like the stupid idiotic imaginary reasons you make up to make yourselves believe that evolution is science.

like forest gump says , stupid is, stupid does.

believe it or not mike , a steel/iron ball will roll up a hill under the influence of a magnet.

and believe it or not mike, a non ferrous wheel will turn under
the influence of a steel/iron ball rolling inside it like the one in the video.

your just too blinded by your intelligence to comprehend it.
so you deny it.

with no valid reason.

I'm even going to go as far as to say that you consider your
actions to be scientific , because that is the scientific way
that science works these days.

science has become a pool of lies and deceit.
because science teaches lies and deceit , its like what
comes around, goes around and stupid is , stupid does.

I'm probably going to be sorry that I got into this.


The device as shown will not work. There is no source to provide a torque to turn anything in the system. Therefore there is no energy exchange to make the wheel turn. As I said before I would have to be able to personally examine the whole set up to find what is making it turn. It is not some kind of magic, which is what perpetual motion/free energy devices are.

Bill Gill

then you don't know what torque is , bill.

from what I understand about torque , the torque that causes
the wheel to turn is placed on the wheel by the ball.

do you want to completely dismiss gravity and claim something silly like the magnet is providing the only force that supports the ball , thus the ball really does not cause
friction to be placed on the wheel.

LOL

you find it so easy to place faith in all the fantasy of
science but when it comes down to real physics or should I
say real science you become lost and your logic dissipates because you have been told it wouldn't work all your life , and you blindly accepted it.

Yes there are forces acting on the ball and on the wheel. The specific forces to be looked at are gravitic, pointing straight down and magnetic, pointing at the end of the magnet. There is also a centripetal force pointed at the center of the wheel. This force is provided by the wheel itself, which stops the ball from moving more than the radius of the wheel from the center.

If you do a vector analysis of the 2 primary forces you will find that they sum up to provide a force directly opposite the centripetal force and equal in magnitude. Thus the net force on the ball is zero, so there is no movement. This of course is after friction has reduced the oscillation of the ball around its final position to 0.

So once again gentle readers Paul is making unsupported claims concerning the magic act that the person who made the video is performing. The thing about all of the claimed perpetual motion devices is that they are basically the same thing that stage magicians do.

Bill Gill

I have heard this type of load before , but with the
evidence shown in the video you don't seem to have
much of a load except in your pants, that are on fire , Bill

to be plain and simple that is a load of crap if I have ever heard one.

a vector analysis ...

LOL





yea you should really try that one Bill.

I didn't think you knew what you were talking about , but now I'm certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that you really don't know what you are talking about.

or your simply protecting a part of the science cult.

if you think that because the 2 primary forces will add up to the centripetal force provided by the wheel and that will stop
the wheel from turning , then there never would have been a wheel that would have ever turned , LOL...

because the centripetal forces always add up to the centrifugal forces ( the outward force ) and when they
don't add up ( if centrifugal is higher than centripetal ), then something is going to break.

that's the reason we study centripetal ( inward force ) and
centrifugal ( outward ) forces.

so we will be able to determine if a mechanism can withstand
the forces in rotation.

BTW , I already know that science claims that
centrifugal force is a pseudo force.

but science uses centrifuges everyday.

I hope your not going to stoop to using that in your next load of crap...

Paul must every post be about you moaning and crying about science beating up your creation and god.

No wonder the romans crucify christian fundementalists and stick you on a hill and the islamic jihadist want to blow you up because they just want to get some peace and quiet.

Personally I am hoping the second coming gets here soon so the moaning and whining will stop.

Well, gentle readers, you see how it is. I explain that as far as I can see there is no force to cause the wheel to rotate. Then Paul doesn't bother to find a force that will cause it to rotate because of course that is hard to do. Instead he attacks scientists in general because we keep insisting that all things work according to the laws of nature, instead of bowing to his great wisdom. Unfortunately if we want to make things that actually work we do have to work within those laws. We never have been able to get things to work when we ignore natural law. I think Paul's diatribes would be more effective it he didn't just lash out and claim we are all liars. A bit of proof would work much better.

I see I have written that as if I was a scientist. I'm not really but I kind of classify myself in the same general group. That is people who like to know how things really work.

Bill Gill

I missed that explanation there Bill.

or did you mean that you stated that as far as you could see...




nope no explanation there...only statements or claims.



nope no explanation there either , just statements and then the
part about the centripetal force , bla , bla , ...

which has absolutely nothing to do with the ball moving along the track.

I guess you put that in because you wanted to miss guide your gentle readers because it allows you to say it stops the ball.




ROFLMAO

its really lame of you to try and use the centrifugal force as
a reason that the ball would not move around the track.

do you even know what centripetal force is?

if so why would you somehow imagine that a vector analysis of
the centripetal force and the prime forces would show that
the ball would not move around the track?

I want to hear this one , I could use another laugh.
your post always brighten up my day , but they make it hard to
drink a hot cup of coffee.

Gentle and Gentile sheeple

notice how scientist use an incorrect application of physics
to confuse and miss guide the masses into believing that things are not possible.

here Bill , who thinks of himself as someone like a scientist
is using centripetal force to try and show the masses that
this machine would not work.

the centripetal force applies only to the inward force acting on the ball.
the ball moving along the track would not exhibit any inward motion , the ball would not be trying to move to the center of
the wheel.

the ball cannot move further away from the center of the wheel
because the ball is sitting on the track which prevents it from
moving further away from the center of the wheel.

his erroneous use of centripetal force is a extreme attempt
at miss guiding the masses.

something that science regularly displays to show just how dense science really has become in order to protect their science religion.

Should be reasonably easy to settle the issue. Who's going to build the thing and put it to the test?

disturbing thought!

What if Paul makes one that works, and Bill makes one that doesn't?

I guess that gives Orac the chance to say that according to QM, it's all down to the observer/creator.