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#4661 11/26/05 02:23 AM
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I wouldn't mind teaching intelligent design in high school. It was a topic well discussed in the nineteenth century (Ruse, Michael 2005 The Evolution-Creation Struggle. Harvard U. Press). Most of the arguments possible have been put forward and have been elegantly refuted by the careful dispassionate works of scientists. The debate over intelligent design illustrates the gradual and elegant working of the scientific method. Students would benefit from reviewing it. The Bush pro-ignorance anti-science policy can only do short-term damage to science. People want and need more education. With that education will come a respect for science. Then, cheap political tricks to corall the ignorant will have fewer chances of success.

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#4662 11/26/05 11:27 AM
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Anaximander, I am afraid that what you see today as the anti-science policy, and more generally the anti-science current is not a a cause for some short-time future damage to science, but it already is the effect of a trend that was started decades ago, about a generation ago. As such, the damage done is already long-term, and unfortunately it still is on the rise.

#4663 11/27/05 12:24 AM
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Anaximander ... Sarcasm will likely get you lynched in the new America. This country no longer has a sense of humor.

Or ethics that aren't manufactured out of biblical nonsense or a law book.


DA Morgan
#4664 11/30/05 06:52 PM
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I don't think the "war on science" will be a major detriment to scientific inquiry in general, but more likely a detriment to scientific inquiry in the US. You don't hear about these problems much in Europe, India or China.

In popular culture, the slow degradation of the sciences as a career might have begun in the late 60s or 70s. Before then, scientists were depicted in movies and television as intelligent, noble people. Gradually we ended up depicted as goofy nerds at best, or maniacal villains at worst.

Today, when I'm out in the field characterizing the soils on a landscape, I just can't keep myself from an outburst of maniacal laughter now and then.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha!

Oops.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4665 11/30/05 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
degradation of the sciences as a career
Someboody told me, that science should not be a carrer, but a calling.

#4666 12/01/05 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
degradation of the sciences as a career
Someboody told me, that science should not be a carrer, but a calling.
What did that person mean by "a calling?" An interest in it? A knack for it?


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4667 12/01/05 04:05 PM
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Hey! I just noticed I'm no longer a *junior member*. I can just feel the additional wisdom! I have an uncontrollable need to stroke my chin thoughtfully.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4668 12/01/05 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
degradation of the sciences as a career
Someboody told me, that science should not be a carrer, but a calling.
What did that person mean by "a calling?" An interest in it? A knack for it?
Something that one does even if it brings misfortune on him; something that like virtue, is its own reward.

I think that now I understand him better, than I did then.

es

#4669 12/01/05 09:45 PM
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Well I certainly could have done better, financially, if I chose a different profession! I can't say I regret it, though. Could be worse, I could have had a calling to be a (gasp!) teacher!


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4670 12/02/05 06:44 AM
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Teachers are at the mercy of the local school board. They are typically overworked, underpaid and often underqualified. My son's high school English teacher was a sports coach who could not correctly pronounce "alacrity" and did not know enough grammar to teach the subject. HIs ignorance was exceeded only by his attitude, which was in need of correction. My son had more understanding of English grammar in sixth grade than did this man who was teaching in High School. But he was a good coach so they overlooked his weaknesses as a teacher. Is it any wonder the students are apathetic, with that as an example set before them?

#4671 12/02/05 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amaranth Rose:
HIs ignorance ...Is it any wonder the students are apathetic, with that as an example set before them?
The way to teach education is to fix Science, Academics, then School, in this order

es

#4672 12/02/05 03:12 PM
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"My son's high school English teacher was a sports coach"

My oldest daughter's computer science teacher is also her swim coach. They call it CS, but it's really a java programming class. He knows a little about java, but the kinds of questions on the tests show that he's missed the boat:

"How many constructors are there for such and such a class" (from memory, not by looking it up) This is the silly sort of question that is geared to favor people who study minutiae without understanding what it is they're doing.

I gave her an intro to CS using VB before the year began. Starting out she was reluctant, because she thought I was trying to get her to be a programmer. Finally I convinced her that I was just trying to impart a valuable skill to her that she could do with as she wished. After the first lesson, she was coming to me ASKING if I could teach her some computer science. She started the school year very excited. Now she despises the class. Almost everyone's making A's and learning nothing of consequence.

He's a likeable, but garrulous sort of fellow. But he has single-handedly convinced my daughter that she doesn't want to pursue any further interests in CS.

I could talk for hours about how badly the math education system sucks - and we're supposedly in one of the better public school systems in the country! For three years running my oldest kid was in honors math, making the highest As in the class, and learning zilch. If it weren't for my augmenting her schooling, she'd be in trouble this year, now that she finally has a competent teacher.

There aren't enough qualified math teachers to fill the classrooms. They use what good teachers they have and make up the balance with incompetent yahoos.

#4673 12/02/05 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amaranth Rose:
Teachers are at the mercy of the local school board. They are typically overworked, underpaid and often underqualified.
You won't get any disagreement from me. I've been told that I would make a good teacher (by teachers), but after looking into what my daily reality would be if I made that move, I couldn't manage it financially. I might do it when I retire, but that's a couple of decades away, I think.

Salaries are key. Most people who emerge from grad school have significant debts to deal with, and often families to support.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4674 12/03/05 05:29 PM
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Sorry members.

I have requested that my reply be removed. I now feel it would be ill advised for me to discuss this topic on this Forum.
jjw

#4675 12/03/05 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jjw004:
I did represent school districts defense and the pre-job requirements, were at times, shameful in my opinion.
This follows from science hijacked by pseudo.
From which follows university "professors" are nil or worse. From which follows the college teachers are nothing. from which follows that school teachers are nil.

Money will not solve that. A good new broom would.

es

#4676 12/09/05 09:58 PM
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the difference between a calling and a proffetion is something along the lines of
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." Edward Bulwer-Lytton


If you believe everything you read, better not read.
#4677 12/11/05 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beaker:
the difference between a calling and a profession is something along the lines of
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." Edward Bulwer-Lytton
Thanks for a good quotation.

es

#4678 12/11/05 05:20 PM
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What makes it far more difficult for teachers, and society as a whole, is that some people take pride in their idiocy. It's chavs over here, I guess everyone has the equivalent in each country. These people know that they know nothing (which supposedly is the first step toward wisdom) but are proud of the fact. Life and learning should go hand in hand, don't stop till your dead.


If you believe everything you read, better not read.
#4679 12/11/05 06:32 PM
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Same group of people that blindly follow self-annointed leaders.

They confuse the fact that they stopped thinking with coming to a conclusion.


DA Morgan
#4680 12/25/05 09:14 PM
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Though that may be true, if the leader was extremely intelligent, it would work out well for both the leader and the fools if the leader is honest. More realisticly, if the leader was corrupt it would work out very well for the leader.

#4681 12/26/05 05:03 AM
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Thus the quote of the day is:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
~ Lord Acton


DA Morgan
#4682 12/26/05 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amaranth Rose:
Teachers are at the mercy of the local school board. They are typically overworked, underpaid and often underqualified. My son's high school English teacher was a sports coach who could not correctly pronounce "alacrity" and did not know enough grammar to teach the subject. HIs ignorance was exceeded only by his attitude, which was in need of correction. My son had more understanding of English grammar in sixth grade than did this man who was teaching in High School. But he was a good coach so they overlooked his weaknesses as a teacher. Is it any wonder the students are apathetic, with that as an example set before them?
I have to disagree,

Usually it is the Teacher Unions that force school boards to keep ignorant teachers.
Don't leave out Tax Base, and size of the comunity, and poverty level.

#4683 12/27/05 05:41 PM
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As an educator, myself, I feel reasonably qualified to state that lack of education has little or nothing to do with tax base, community size, or poverty level (at least from an economic standpoint).

It has to do with our schools churning out reasonably uneducated educators and parents that don't give a damn.

My feeling is that they have children to satisfy a biological urge, or worse for their parents, and have no real interest in being parents.


DA Morgan
#4684 12/28/05 02:06 AM
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DA Morgan there is so much wrong with the above I wont start(at least from an economic standpoint).Maybe you should try Dalmore 18years one of the best singel malts

#4685 12/28/05 05:48 PM
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I will. Just as soon as I get through the last of my current stash.

Heading back to the UK in May and will get some to replenish my stock.


DA Morgan
#4686 01/29/06 03:07 PM
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News from the trenches...

Climate Expert Says NASA Tried to Silence Him
The top climate scientist (Dr. James E. Hansen) at NASA says the Bush administration has tried to stop him from speaking out since he gave a lecture last month calling for prompt reductions in emissions of greenhouse gases linked to global warming.

"They feel their job is to be this censor of information going out to the public," said Dr. Hansen.

"That's not the way we operate here at NASA. We promote openness and we speak with the facts," said Dean Acosta, deputy assistant administrator for public affairs at the space agency.

#4687 01/31/06 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anaximander:
With that education will come a respect for science. Then, cheap political tricks to corall the ignorant will have fewer chances of success.
The science is losing respect because of its own decay. It is converting in full speed into pseudoscience. So the education by those nitwits is a joke. Your whole attitude is missing out on this.

e smile s

#4688 02/01/06 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:

The way to teach education is to fix Science, Academics, then School, in this order.

The science is losing respect because of its own decay. It is converting in full speed into pseudoscience. So the education by those nitwits is a joke.
es, could you explain the issue that you have with science (methodology?), and let us know how you think this 'problem' should be fixed.

#4689 02/01/06 06:11 AM
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ExtraNONsense wrote:
"The science is losing respect because of its own decay."

Well it certainly appears grammar lost first. But if you are so concerned about the decay of science stop using your computer, stop taking antibiotics, stop using electricity, stop listening to the radio, watching TV, driving your car, smash the cell phone and the digital camera and do please start growing your own food and purifying your own drinking water.

Science is alive, healthy, respected by all but a handful, and doing what it does best. You, on the otherhand, are a cesspool of willfully educated ignorance hypocritically denouncing the very things you use each and every day when you post to this site. Shameless hypocrisy at its worst.


DA Morgan
#4690 02/01/06 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Rockets:
Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
The way to fix education is to fix Science, Academics, then School, in this order.
The science is losing respect because of its own decay. It is converting full speed into pseudoscience. So the education by those nitwits is a joke.
es, could you explain the issue that you have with science (methodology?), and let us know how you think this 'problem' should be fixed.
You might say that the Alchemistry was useful, as it was keeping up the interest in the natural wonders.
Here is the link to my website, that shows that main "scientific" theories of today are garbage.
What is a way, in your mind, to excuse that? Where does it lead us, looking into the future?

http://groups.google.com/group/freescience?lnk=oa&hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/freeviewsscience?lnk=oa&hl=en

ES

#4691 02/02/06 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
You might say that the Alchemistry was useful, as it was keeping up the interest in the natural wonders.
Here is the link to my website, that shows that main "scientific" theories of today are garbage.
What is a way, in your mind, to excuse that? Where does it lead us, looking into the future?

ES
es, in regard to your website...

Are you really suggesting that Marxism is "a main scientific theory of today"?

I also notice that you try to use scientific notation in an attempt to falsify the feasibility of QC. Isn't the testing of theories and hypotheses what science is all about? How can science be as bad as you make it out to be when you are using the very same tools?

If you think that current science methodology is faulty, what else is there? What are your alternative suggestions?

#4692 02/02/06 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Rockets:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
main "scientific" theories of today are garbage. What is a way, in your mind, to excuse that? Where does it lead us, looking into the future?
How can science be as bad as you make it out to be when you are using the very same tools?
Must not you see the difference between the principle, idea of science, and the crap that is parasiting on that idea? Should not the society be smart enough for that, for being able to make the distinction?

ES

#4693 02/02/06 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:

Must not you see the difference between the principle, idea of science, and the crap that is parasiting on that idea? Should not the society be smart enough for that, for being able to make the distinction?

ES
I'm not really sure that I follow what you are trying to say. Could you provide some more examples to prove that science standards are currently in widespread decline.

And I ask again, if you claim to have pin pointed what is wrong with science (and you are yet to tell us what that really is), how do you propose that science should be fixed?

#4694 02/02/06 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Rockets:
Could you provide some more examples to prove that science standards are currently in widespread decline..
how do you propose that science should be fixed?
Certainly, I could.
Most of the "nanotechnology" is a fraud or myth.
NASA science is an oximoron.
Anthropoid string theory is a nonesense.

The mentioned here and on my sites, are just tip of the iceberg.

How to fix this decay?

We need at least to start exposing the scoundrels, kick them out of professorships, and fund the real research with the billions saved from their clatches.

ES

#4695 02/02/06 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:

How to fix this decay?

We need at least to start exposing the scoundrels, kick them out of professorships, and fund the real research with the billions saved from their clatches.

ES
What, in your opinion, are some examples of real research?

#4696 02/02/06 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Rockets:
Quote:
We need at least to start exposing the scoundrels, kick them out of professorships, and fund the real research with the billions saved from their clatches.
What, in your opinion, are some examples of real research?
I can give you an example, right off the top of my head: the work of Thomas Sowell.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/archive.shtml
Six hundred Twenty Six outstanding articles of high scientific and literary value, a number of books - are an example hard to match.
And incidently, each is signed by one person - not by endless list of shady co-authors.

ES

#4697 02/02/06 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
I can give you an example, right off the top of my head: the work of Thomas Sowell.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/archive.shtml
Six hundred Twenty Six outstanding articles of high scientific and literary value, a number of books - are an example hard to match.
And incidently, each is signed by one person - not by endless list of shady co-authors.

ES
I should have been more specific; I meant research in natural science rather than social science.

#4698 02/02/06 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Rockets:
Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
I can give you an example, right off the top of my head: the work of Thomas Sowell.
I should have been more specific; I meant research in natural science rather than social science.
A pretty good example of the applied science is Mars Exploration Rover design /as opposed to the planetery science part, which is a disaster./

The Japanese humanoid robots are impressive too.

These are the successes, while the good reaserch in progress is not easily visible until the fruition. So the way to help it to succeed, is to be vigilant in weeding out the pseudo science.

e laugh s

#4699 02/06/06 05:41 AM
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Seriously, don't you think that people will question science later on (especially bad science)? Why am I not surprised more and more people home school? (for better or worse btw. not everyone is cut out to teach and have your students become independent thinkers)..
I don't blame the individual teachers anymore than I blame any soldier for a war, but why is it that those that care, never seem to be in charge?


**newsflash! the flight of the Bumblebee doesn't defy the laws of science after all! makes me wonder what else is possible that we may think defies science now but doesn't?*... and the Bumblebee still flies..
#4700 02/06/06 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
A pretty good example of the applied science is Mars Exploration Rover design /as opposed to the planetery science part, which is a disaster./

The Japanese humanoid robots are impressive too.

These are the successes, while the good reaserch in progress is not easily visible until the fruition. So the way to help it to succeed, is to be vigilant in weeding out the pseudo science.
So mechanical and electrical engineering is good science, but basic research isn't good science? Where do you think engineers pick up the basic information necessary to conduct their work?


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4701 02/06/06 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
""""" the way to ... to succeed, is to be vigilant in weeding out the pseudo science. So mechanical and electrical engineering is good science, but basic research isn't good science? Where do you think engineers pick up the basic information necessary to conduct their work? """""[/QB]
You totally misunderstand my point.
The "quantum computing" 'basic research' hoax, has made a lot of 'engineers' to throw their lives straight to the dogs.

ES

#4702 02/07/06 05:35 AM
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Hoax? Hardly.

Want to disagree with me ... feel free to post references to anything more substantive than your personal opinion.


DA Morgan
#4703 02/07/06 04:05 PM
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I think I may still be totally misunderstanding your point. You point to an economist as your example of "good" science. Can you point to a researcher in the hard sciences that you consider worthy of being called a good scientist?

Also, what is wrong with having more than one author on a paper? Is there some number of authors that puts a paper over the top, in your view?


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4704 02/07/06 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
what is wrong with having more than one author on a paper? Is there some number of authors that puts a paper over the top, in your view?
Why not for each to write what he has to say? It was always the case before.


ES

#4705 02/07/06 11:55 PM
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Extrasense wrote:
"Why not for each to write what he has to say? It was always the case before."

Your lack of understanding of how science works is as hard to disguise as the discharge of a thermonuclear weapon.

When I published in peer reviewed journals there were three of us. All working as a team to produce the result. Each cross-checking the work to make sure it was accurate and repeatable. No one person any more responsible for any part than the other. Science is not a football game. Every player helps carry the ball over the line.


DA Morgan
#4706 02/08/06 01:08 AM
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I'm still in the dark as to what ES's argument really is.

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I'm not sure he has one. He seems to be laboring under the assumption that science he agrees with is good, like electricity and antibiotics. And science he disagrees with is bad.

I'm not sure even he knows what his argument is as most of his arguments seem to be generated on-the-fly based on his theological predisposition.


DA Morgan
#4708 02/08/06 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
science he agrees with is good, like electricity and antibiotics. And science he disagrees with is bad.
If someone does not belive my assertion, that our science is in steep decline, read some stuff that is in the open press:

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-wwblurb4601316jan26,0,1423421.column?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2006/01/12/182061.html

ES

#4709 02/09/06 03:12 AM
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Oooh newsday.com and townhall.com. Wow you go for all of the definitive source materials.

Science in America done by US citizens? Yep ... because of people such as born-again dead-in-the-head fundamentalists who have gutted science funding and stifled the free expression of scientific thought.

Science on a planetary basis, the only one that really matters, is doing just fine.


DA Morgan
#4710 02/09/06 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Oooh newsday.com and townhall.com. Wow you go for all of the definitive source materials.
Science in America done by US citizens? Yep ... because of people such as born-again dead-in-the-head fundamentalists who have gutted science funding and stifled the free expression of scientific thought.
Science on a planetary basis, the only one that really matters, is doing just fine.
Not at all, rather because of the parasitic pseudoscience, and because of education destroyed by "liberals"

e laugh s

#4711 02/09/06 04:14 PM
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If someone does not belive my assertion, that our science is in steep decline, read some stuff that is in the open press:

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-wwblurb4601316jan26,0,1423421.column?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2006/01/12/182061.html

ES
[/QUOTE]

I read both of those columns, extrasense. Neither of them make any comment on the state of science. They berate Americans for being so ignorant, but absolutely nothing to back up your claims that the world of science is in a mess.

Do you know what science is? Do you know how the scientific community works?


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4712 02/09/06 11:06 PM
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extraNONsense wrote:
Not at all, rather because of the parasitic pseudoscience, and because of education destroyed by "liberals"

So now it is about liberals and conservatives. No question about it. Cheap-shot labels are the best way to argue a point. Oh I am impressed. You, Bill O'Reilly, Pat Robertson, and the Christian Coalition. Can't carry an intelligent argument ... well just call them commies or fags eh.

If there is pseudoscience then name it. I want you to name the peer reviewed journals publishing it and I want you to name the university's supporting it. And if you do I will respond specifically to those points. Oh but you won't because you've never actually been to a university science department in your life as either student or faculty. You are just throwing out cheap labels to cover for gross ignorance. You wouldn't know the difference between a quaterion and a quarter if I gave you a one hour lecture on the subject.

Education in the US is being destroyed by people from both extremist sides of the political spectrum. By those on the left for their reasons and those on the right for different reasons. But it all amounts to the same thng. And each trying to shirk their responsibility by means of a childish exercise in finger-pointing.

Personally I'll believe either side gives a damn when they start paying teachers, policmen, and other emergency workers more than they pay NASCAR drivers.

Science in other countries ... amazingly enough there are some that are more civilized than Somalia ... is doing just fine. I'd suggest that you learn to speak Hindi or Chinese.

soilguy: Shabash! yōu xi?


DA Morgan
#4713 02/11/06 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
extraNONsense wrote:
Not at all, rather because of the parasitic pseudoscience, and because of education destroyed by "liberals".

... well just call them commies or fags eh...

Science in other countries ...is doing just fine. I'd suggest that you learn to speak Hindi or Chinese.
With educators like you, no wonder the American science is in decline. Sure, who cares about the decline, if Chinese science progresses!

e laugh s

#4714 02/11/06 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
I read both of those columns, extrasense. Neither of them make any comment on the state of science.
To read does not mean to understand, apparently.

e laugh s

#4715 02/11/06 02:28 PM
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extraNONsense wrote:
"With educators like you, no wonder the American science is in decline. Sure, who cares about the decline, if Chinese science progresses!"

Educators like me at least have integrity to address a topic and not play little childrens games trying to change the subject.

I challenged you to name a pseudoscience: You didn't.

I challenged you to name a university supporting a pseudoscience: You didn't.

So what's with your original claim? Was it just a lie? A prevarication? Two-and-a-half tons of hyperbole? You betcha!

How do I do as an educator? Students take my classes on a purely voluntary basis and I have a full classroom year after year. Students three times a year rate their instructors. I've not received an evaluation I'm not proud to show to any that ask.

And what is it you do when you are not competing with dark energy for a place in the universe?


DA Morgan
#4716 02/11/06 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
extraNONsense wrote:
"With educators like you, no wonder the American science is in decline. Sure, who cares about the decline, if Chinese science progresses!"

I challenged you to name a pseudoscience: You didn't.
I challenged you to name a university supporting a pseudoscience: You didn't.
Here we go.

pseudoscience: quantum computing
University: University of Illinois at ... has been identified as a resource central to much of quantum information processing

Quote:

Tzu-Chieh Wei , Marie Ericsson , Paul M. Goldbart , and William J. Munro, Connections between relative entropy of entanglement and geometric measure of entanglement (2004)
... William J. Munro 3 1 Department of Physics, University of Illinois at ... has been identified as a resource central to much of quantum information processing [1].
e laugh s

#4717 02/11/06 06:31 PM
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Quantum computing is pseudoscience?

Are you going to state precisely what it is about quantum computing that makes it pseudoscience or am I supposed to guess?

Which part of the following statement is untrue and on what basis is it untrue? Please point to the specific paper that refutes it.

"The degree to which a pure quantum state is entangled can be characterized by the distance or angle to the unentangled state."


DA Morgan
#4718 02/11/06 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Quantum computing is pseudoscience?
"The degree to which a pure quantum state is entangled can be characterized by the distance or angle to the unentangled state."
This is the gabbelegook, which the crapsellers get their billions for. There no such thing as entanglement, period. It is a way the lie is packaged, that's all.

E laugh S

#4719 02/11/06 07:43 PM
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The fact that you are uneducated does and do not understand something doesn't make it gobbledegook.

The definition of science is not that some person who never studied the subject doesn't understand it. If that were the definition of science then we'd still be living in caves and grunting at each other: Awk Sed Grep.

You seem to be trying to earn the title poster-child of willfull ignorance.

I don't understand you and people like you continuing to occupy space and breathe air. But so far that lack of understanding hasn't made one of you go to school.

Lets try it again:
Which part of the following statement is untrue and on what basis is it untrue? Please point to the specific paper that refutes it.

"The degree to which a pure quantum state is entangled can be characterized by the distance or angle to the unentangled state."

Either put up or shut up!


DA Morgan
#4720 02/11/06 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
The fact that you are uneducated does and do not understand something doesn't make it gobbledegook.
You are igmorant kook of educator, asking idiotic questions which show that to be true to everybody.
And you have the gull to doubt my education level! Better stop making fool of yourself and continue quietly collect your unearned salary.

ES

#4721 02/11/06 08:55 PM
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extraNONsense wrote:
"You are igmorant kook of educator"

Certainly a constructive statement going to the very heart of quantum entanglement.

extraNONsense wrote:
"asking idiotic questions which show that to be true to everybody."

True to everybody? I certainly try to be. But if you think the question is idiotic then lets try a third and final time:

Which part of the following statement is untrue and on what basis is it untrue? Please point to the specific paper that refutes it.

"The degree to which a pure quantum state is entangled can be characterized by the distance or angle to the unentangled state."

extraNONsense wrote:
And you have the gull to doubt my education level!

Not just the gull but the gall too. An amazing demonstration of illiteracy as well as ignorance.

extraNONsense wrote:
"Better stop making fool of yourself and continue quietly collect your unearned salary."

Coming from you that is a compliment of the highest order. Thank you.


DA Morgan
#4722 02/12/06 02:27 AM
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es, while your exchange with DA shows a certain passion, you have still not shown why quantum entanglement is bunkum. It's not good enough to just say that entanglement is a rort; you have to explain to us why you think this is so.

I haven't come across anything on your site that would disprove entanglement, btw.

#4723 02/12/06 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Rockets:
It's not good enough to just say that entanglement is a rort; you have to explain to us why you think this is so.
Here it is:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mycommon/Quantum_Computing_Myths.PDF


es

#4724 02/12/06 06:11 PM
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I love the link. You refute quantum entanglement with an authorless paper, peer reviewed by no one, referencing papers that in no way support your conclusion, using elementary school math.

Brilliant!

It is always wonderful to see fluff trump real research such as that of Isaac Chuang of IBM and Neil Gershenfeld of MIT.

Perhaps though you can explain this:

1. D. Leibfried, E. Knill, S. Seidelin, J. Britton, R. B. Blakestad, J. Chiaverini, D. B. Hume, W. M. Itano, J. D. Jost, C. Langer, R. Ozeri, R. Reichle, and D. J. Wineland, "Creation of a six-atom 'Schroedinger cat' state, " Nature. 438, 639-642 (2005).

2. C. Langer, R. Ozeri, J. D. Jost, J. Chiaverini, B. DeMarco, A. Ben-Kish, R. B. Blakestad, J. Britton, D. B. Hume, W. M. Itano, D. Leibfried, R. Reichle, T. Rosenband, T. Schaetz, P. O. Schmidt, and D. J. Wineland, "Long-lived qubit memory using atomic ions," Phys. Rev. Lett. 95, 060502-1 - 060502-4 (2005).

3. P. O. Schmidt, T. Rosenband, C. Langer, W. M. Itano, J. C. Bergquist, and D. J. Wineland, "Spectroscopy using quantum logic," Science 309, 749-752 (2005).

4. R. Ozeri, C. Langer, J. D. Jost, B. DeMarco, A. Ben-Kish, B. R. Blakestad, J. Britton, J. Chiaverini, W. M. Itano, D. B. Hume, D. Leibfried, T. Rosenband, P. O. Schmidt, and D. J. Wineland, "Hyperfine coherence in the presence of spontaneous photon scattering," Phys. Rev, Lett. 95, 030403-1 - 030403-4 (2005).

5. J. Chiaverini, J. Britton, D. Leibfried, E. Knill, M. D. Barrett, R. B. Blakestad, W.M. Itano, J.D. Jost, C. Langer, R. Ozeri, T. Schaetz, and D.J. Wineland, "Implementation of the semiclassical quantum Fourier transform in a scalable system," Science 308, 997-1000 (2005).

6. T. Schaetz, M. D. Barrett, D. Leibfried, J. Britton, J. Chiaverini, W.M. Itano, J.D. Jost, E. Knill, C. Langer, and D.J. Wineland, "Enhanced quantum state detection efficiency through quantum information processing," Phys. Rev. Lett. 94, 010501-1 - 010501-4 (2005).

7. J. Chiaverini, D. Leibried, T. Schaetz, M. D. Barrett, R. B. Blakestad, J. Britton, W.M. Itano, J.D. Jost, E. Knill, C. Langer, R. Ozeri, and D.J. Wineland, "Realization of quantum error correction," Nature 432, 602-605 (2004).

8. M. D. Barrett, J. Chiaverini, T. Schaetz, J. Britton, W.M. Itano, J.D. Jost, E. Knill, C. Langer, D. Leibfried, R. Ozeri, and D.J. Wineland, "Deterministic quantum teleportation of atomic qubits," Nature 429, 737-739 (2004).

9. T. Schaetz, M. D. Barrett, D. Leibfried, J. Chiaverini, J. Britton, W.M. Itano, J.D. Jost, C. Langer, and D.J. Wineland, "Quantum dense coding with atomic qubits," Phys. Rev. Lett. 93, 040505-1 - 040505-4 (2004).

10. D. Leibfried, M. D. Barrett, T. Schaetz, J. Britton, J. Chiaverini, W.M. Itano, J.D. Jost, C. Langer, and D.J. Wineland, "Toward Heisenberg-limited spectroscopy with multiparticle entangled states," Science 304, 1476-1478 (2004).

11. M. Barrett, B.L. DeMarco, T. Schaetz, V. Meyer, D. Leibfried, J. Britton, J. Chiaverini, W.M. Itano, B.M. Jelenkovic, J.D. Jost, C. Langer, T. Rosenband, and D.J. Wineland, "Sympathetic cooling of 9Be+ and 24Mg+ for quantum logic," Phys. Rev. A 68, 042302-1 - 042302-7 (2003).

12. W. M. Itano, "Comment on `Some implications of the quantum nature of laser fields for quantum computations,'" Phys. Rev. A 68, 046301-1 - 046301-2 (2003).

13. D. Leibfried, B. DeMarco, V. Meyer, D. Lucas, M. Barrett, J. Britton, W. M. Itano, B. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, T. Rosenband, and D. J. Wineland, "Experimental demonstration of a robust, high-fidelity geometric two ion-qubit phase gate," Nature 422, 412-415 (2003).

14. D. J. Wineland, M. Barrett, J. Britton, J. Chiaverini, B. L. DeMarco, W. M. Itano, B. M. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, D. Leibfried, V. Meyer, T. Rosenband, and T. Schaetz, "Quantum information processing with trapped ions," Phil. Trans. Royal Soc. London A 361, 1349-1361 (2003).

15. D. J. Wineland, J. C. Bergquist, T. Rosenband, P. O. Schmidt, W. M. Itano, J. J. Bollinger, D. Leibfried, and W. H. Oskay, "Ion optical clocks and quantum information processing," Proc. 2003 Joint Meeting IEEE International Frequency Control Symposium and EFTF Conference, 68-71 (2003).

16. A. Ben-Kish, B. DeMarco, V. Meyer, M. Rowe, J. Britton, W. M. Itano, B. M. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, D. Leibfried, T. Rosenband, and D. J. Wineland, "Experimental demonstration of a technique to generate arbitrary quantum superposition states of a harmonically bound spin-1/2 particle," Phys. Rev. Lett. 90, 037902-1 - 037902-4 (2003).

17. D. Leibfried, B. DeMarco, V. Meyer, M. Rowe, A. Ben-Kish, M. Barrett, J. Britton, J. Hughes, W. M. Itano, B. M. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, D. Lucas, T. Rosenband, and D. J. Wineland, "Towards quantum information with trapped ions at NIST," J. Phys. B 36, 599-612 (2003).

18. D.J. Wineland, D. Leibfried, B.L. DeMarco, V. Meyer, M.A. Rowe, A. Ben Kish, M. Barrett, J. Britton, J. Hughes, W.M. Itano, B.M. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, D. Lucas and T. Rosenband, "Quantum information processing and multiplexing with trapped ions," Proc. 2002 International Conference on Atomic Physics, (2003).

19. B. DeMarco, A. Ben-Kish, D. Leibfried, V. Meyer, M. Rowe, B. M. Jelenkovic, W. M. Itano, J. Britton, C. Langer, T. Rosenband, and D. J. Wineland, "Experimental demonstration of a controlled-NOT wave-packet gate," Phys. Rev. Lett. 89, 267901-1 - 267901-4 (2002).

20. D. Leibfried, B. DeMarco, V. Meyer, M. Rowe, A. Ben-Kish, J. Britton, W. M. Itano, B. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, T. Rosenband, and D. J. Wineland, "Trapped-ion quantum simulator: Experimental application to nonlinear interferometers," Phys. Rev. Lett. 89, 247901-1 - 247901-4 (2002).

21. M. A. Rowe, A. Ben-Kish, B. DeMarco, D. Leibfried, V. Meyer, J. Beall, J. Britton, J. Hughes, W. M. Itano, B. Jelenkovic, C. Langer, T. Rosenband, and D. J. Wineland, "Transport of quantum states and separation of ions in a dual rf ion trap," Quantum Information and Computation 2, 257-271 (2002).

22. D. J. Wineland, J. C. Bergquist, J. J. Bollinger, R. E. Drullinger, And W. M. Itano, "Quantum computers and atomic clocks," Proceedings of the 6th Symposium on Frequency Standards and Metrology, Edited by P. Gill (World Scientific, Singapore, 2002), p. 361-368.

23. D. Kielpinski, C.R. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Architecture for a Large-Scale Ion-Trap Quantum Computer," Nature 417, 709-711 (2002).

24. D. Kielpinski, "Entanglement and decoherence in a trapped-ion quantum register" Ph. D. thesis, Department of Physics, University of Colorado, Boulder, 2001.

25. V. Meyer, M.A. Rowe, D. Kielpinski, C.A. Sackett, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Experimental demonstration of entanglement-enhanced rotation angle estimation using trapped ions," Phys. Rev. Lett. 86, 5870 (2001).

26. D. Kielpinski, A. Ben-Kish, J. Britton, V. Meyer, M.A. Rowe, C.A. Sackett, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Recent results in trapped-ion quantum computing at NIST," Proceedings of the International Conference on Experimental Implementation of Quantum Computation ( Sydney Australia 2001), pp. 79-90.

27. M.A. Rowe, D. Kielpinski, V. Meyer, C.A. Sackett, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Experimental violation of a Bell's inequality with efficient detection," Nature 409, 791-794 (2001).

28. D. Kielpinski, V. Meyer, M.A. Rowe, C.A. Sackett, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "A decoherence-free quanum memory using trapped ions," Science 291, 1013-1015 (2001).

29. C. Monroe and D.J. Wineland, "Computing with atoms and molecules," Science Spectra, 23, 72-79 (2000).

30. C. Monroe, C.A. Sackett, D. Kielpinski, B.E. King, C. Langer, V. Meyer, C.J. Myatt, M. Rowe, Q.A. Turchette, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Scalable entanglement of trapped ions," in Atomic Physics 17, Proceedings of the 17th International Conference, edited by E. Arimondo, P. DeNatle, and M. Inguscio (AIP Conf. Proc. 551, Melville, NY 2001), pp. 173-186.

31. Q.A. Turchette, C.J. Myatt, B.E. King, C.A. Sackett, D. Kielpinski, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Decoherence and decay of motional quantum states of a trapped atom coupled to engineered reservoirs," Phys. Rev. A 62, 053807 (2000).

32. C.A. Sackett, D. Kielpinski, B.E. King, C. Langer, V. Meyer, C.J. Myatt, M. Rowe, Q.A. Turchette, W.M. Itano, D.J. Wineland, and C. Monroe, "Experimental entanglement of four particles," Nature 404, 256 (2000).

33. C.J. Myatt, B.E. King, Q.A. Turchette, C.A. Sackett, D. Kielpinski, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Decoherence of quantum superpositions through coupling to engineered reservoirs," Nature 403, 269 (2000).

34. Q.A. Turchette, D. Kielpinski, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, D.M. Meekhof, C.J. Myatt, M.A. Rowe, C.A. Sackett, C.S. Wood, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Heating of trapped ions from the quantum ground state," Phys. Rev. A 61, 063418 (2000).

35. D. Kielpinski, B.E. King, C.J. Myatt, C.A. Sackett, Q.A. Turchette, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, D.J. Wineland, and W.H. Zurek, "Sympathetic cooling of trapped ions for quantum logic," Phys. Rev. A 61, 032310 (2000).

36. C.J. Myatt, B.E. King, Q. A. Turchette, C.A. Sackett, D. Kielpinski, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Decay of quantum superpositions into engineered reservoirs," in Laser Spectroscopy, proceedings of the XIV International Conference, edited by R. Blatt, J. Eschner, D. Leibfried, and F. Schmidt-Kaler (World Scientific, Singapore, 1999) p. 237-245.

37. D.J. Wineland, C. Monroe, W.M. Itano, D. Kielpinski, B.E. King, C.J. Myatt, Q.A. Turchette, and C.S. Wood, "Quantum Computation, Spectroscopy of Trapped Ions, and Schr?dinger's Cat," in Quantum Coherence and Decoherence, Proceedings of the 6th International Symposium on Foundations of Quantum Mechanics in the Light of New Technology (ISQM-Tokyo '98), edited by Y.A. Ono and K. Fujikawa (Elsevier Science, Amsterdam, 1999), pp. 103-108.

38. C. Monroe, W. M. Itano, D. Kielpinski, B. E. King, D. Leibfried, C. J. Myatt, Q. A. Turchette, D. J. Wineland, and C. S. Wood, "Quantum logic with a few trapped ions," Trapped Charged Particles and Fundamental Physics, AIP Conf. Proc. 457, edited by D. H. E. Dubin and D. Schneider (American Institute of Physics, Woodbury, NY, 1999), p. 378-387.

39. D. Leibfried, T. Pfau, and C. R. Monroe, "Shadows and mirrors: Reconstructing quantum states of atom motion," Phys. Today 51, 22-28 (April 1998).

40. C. J. Myatt, B. E. King, D. Kielpinski, D. Leibfried, Q. A. Turchette, C. S. Wood, W. M. Itano, C. R. Monroe, and D. J. Wineland, "Trapped ions, entanglement, and quantum computing," in Methods for Ultrasensitive Detection, edited by B. L. Fearey, Proc. SPIE 3270, 131-137 (1998).

41. Q.A. Turchette, C.S. Wood, B.E. King, C.J. Myatt, D. Leibfried, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Deterministic entanglement of two ions," Phys. Rev. Lett. 81, 3631 (1998).

42. D.J. Wineland, C.R. Monroe, W.M. Itano, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, C.J. Myatt, and C.S. Wood, "Trapped-Ion Quantum Simulator," Physica Scripta (special issue on Modern Studies of Basic Quantum Concepts and Phenomena), T76, 147-151 (1998).

43. D.J. Wineland, C.R. Monroe, W.M. Itano, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, D. M. Meekhof, C.J. Myatt, and C.S. Wood, "Experimental Primer on the Trapped Ion Quantum Computer," Fortschritte de Physik 46, 363-390 (1998).

44. B.E. King, C.J. Myatt, Q.A. Turchette, D. Leibfried, W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, and D.J. Wineland, "Cooling the collective motion of trapped ions to initialize a quantum register," Phys. Rev. Lett. 81, 3631 (1998).

45. D.J. Wineland, C. Monroe, W.M. Itano, D. Leibfried, B. King, and D.M. Meekhof, "Experimental issues in coherent quantum-state manipulation of trapped atomic ions," Journal of Research of the National Institute of Standards and Technology 103, 259 (1998).

46. D.J. Wineland, C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, W.M. Itano, J.C. Bergquist, D. Berkeland, J.J. Bollinger, and J. Miller, "Quantum state manipulation of trapped atomic ions," Proc. Roy. Soc. Lond. A 454, 411-429 (1998). Proc. Workshop on Quantum Computing, Santa Barbara, CA, Dec. 1996.

47. D.J. Wineland, C.R. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, W.M. Itano, J.C. Bergquist, D.J. Berkeland, J.J. Bollinger, and J.D. Miller, "Coherent quantum state manipulation of trapped atomic ions," Advances in Quantum Chemistry 30, 41 (1998).

48. W.M. Itano, C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, D. Leibfried, B.E. King, and D.J. Wineland, "Quantum harmonic oscillator state synthesis and analysis," in Atom Optics, edited by M.G. Prentiss and W.D. Phillips, Proc. SPIE 2995, 43 (1997).

49. C. Monroe, D. Leibfried, B.E. King, D.M. Meekhof, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Simplified quantum logic with trapped ions " Phys. Rev. A 55, R2489 (1997).

50. C. Monroe and J. Bollinger, "Atomic physics in ion traps," Physics World 10, 37 (March 1997).

51. D. Leibfried, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, C. Monroe, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Experimental preparation and measurement of the state of motion of a trapped atom," Journal of Modern Optics 44, 2485 (1997).

52. D.J. Wineland, C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, W.M. Itano, J.C. Bergquist, D.J. Berkeland, J.J. Bollinger, J.D. Miller, "Entangled states of atomic ions for quantum metrology and computation," in Atomic Physics XV, edited by H.B. van den Linden van den Heuvell, J.T.M. Walraven, M.W. Reynolds (World Scientific, 1997), p. 31.

53. C. R. Monroe, D. M. Meekhof, D. Leibfried, B. E. King, W. M. Itano, and D. J. Wineland, "Single-atom quantum logic gate and Schrodinger cat state," Opt. Photonics News 7, 13-14 (December 1996).

54. C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, D. Leibfried, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Manipulating the motion of a single trapped atom," Accounts of Chemical Research 29, 585 (1996).

55. J.J. Bollinger, W.M. Itano, D.J. Wineland, and D.J. Heinzen, "Optimal frequency measurements with maximally correlated states," Phys. Rev. A 54, R4649 (1996).

56. D. Leibfried, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, C. Monroe, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Experimental Determination of the motional quantum state of a trapped atom," Phys. Rev. Lett. 77, 4281 (1996).

57. C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, D.J. Wineland, "A Schr?dinger cat superposition state of an atom," Science 272, 1131 (1996).

58. D.M. Meekhof, C. Monroe, B.E. King, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Generation of nonclassical motional states of a trapped atom," Phys. Rev. Lett. 76, 1796 (1996).

59. C. Monroe, A.S. Barton, J.C. Bergquist, D. Berkeland, J.J. Bollinger, F. Cruz, W.M. Itano, S.R. Jefferts, B.M. Jelenkovic, B.E. King, D.M. Meekhof, J.D. Miller, M.E. Poitzsch, J.N. Tan, and D.J. Wineland, "Experiments at NIST with trapped ions: 3-D zero-point cooling, quantum gates, Bragg scattering, and atomic clocks," in Laser Spectroscopy XII, proceedings of the International Conference, Capri, Italy, 1995, edited by M. Inguscio, M. Allegrini, and A. Sasso (World Scientific, Singapore, 1996) pp. 179-182.

60. C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Wineland, "Demonstration of a fundamental quantum logic gate," Phys. Rev. Lett. 75, 4714 (1995).

61. C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, S.R. Jefferts, W.M. Itano, D.J. Wineland, and P. Gould, "Resolved-sideband Raman cooling of a bound atom to the 3D zero-point energy," Phys. Rev. Lett. 75, 4011 (1995).

62. C. Monroe, D.M. Meekhof, B.E. King, W.M. Itano, J.J. Bollinger, and D.J. Wineland, "Quantum-mechanically correlated states and atomic clocks," in Dark Matter in Cosmology, Clocks and Tests of Fundamental Laws, Proceedings of the XXXth Rencontre de Moriond, XVth Moriond Workshop, Villars sur Ollon, Switzerland, 1995, edited by B. Guiderdoni, G. Greene, E. Hinds, and J. Tran Thanh Van (Editions Frontieres, Gif-sur-Yvette, France, 1995), pp. 391-396.

63. S.R. Jefferts, C. Monroe, A.S. Barton, and D.J. Wineland, "Paul Trap for optical frequency standards," IEEE Trans. Instrum. Meas., 44, 148 (1995).

64. S.R. Jefferts, C. Monroe, E.W. Bell, D.J. Wineland, "A coaxial-resonator driven rf (Paul) ion trap for strong confinement," Phys. Rev. A 51, 1235 (1995).

65. D.J.Wineland, J.J. Bollinger, W.M. Itano, and D.J. Heinzen, "Squeezed atomic states and projection noise in spectroscopy," Phys. Rev. A 50, 67 (1994).

66. W.M. Itano, J.C. Bergquist, J.J. Bollinger, J.M. Gilligan, D.J. Heinzen, F.L. Moore, M.G. Raizen, and D.J. Wineland, "Quantum Projection Noise: Population Fluctuations in 2-Level Systems," Phys. Rev. A, 47, 3554-3570 (1993).

67. D.J. Wineland, J.J. Bollinger, W.M. Itano, F.L. Moore, and D.J. Heinzen, "Spin squeezing and reduced quantum noise in spectroscopy," Phys. Rev. A 46, R6797 (1992).

Now these are what are called real scientific papers. Writen by people who use their real names, that work for real companies and universities and use real math.

Now I know the difference between the two may not be readily apparent to you but perhaps with some use of synapses you can catch a hint.


DA Morgan
#4725 02/12/06 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
[QB] ....
You have made my case, by showing the infinite amount of crap, produced by the pseudoscince parasite.

This is my article, and it was submitted to the Physical Review Letters.
No peer review occured, since they do not want to rock the boat.

es

#4726 02/12/06 10:27 PM
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Physical Review Letters rejected your paper and with that you have determined that your work is valid and the work of all others is crap.

Amazing arrogance for someone whose math skills are a tribute to mediocrity. And if Einstein himself came back from the grave and spit on your birdcage liner no doubt you'd be out their claiming spacetime a fraud too.

The title of this thead is "War on Science." It seems you are something other than a smartbomb in the war. And unfortunately were dropped by the other side.


DA Morgan
#4727 02/13/06 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Physical Review Letters rejected your paper and with that you have determined that your work is valid and the work of all others is crap.
They did not suggest it is incorrect. They are too careful for that.

In fact, no scientist that I've contacted on that matter, has suggested that there is something wrong with the substance - just with the style and shortness. But it is not why it was rejected.

But who am I talking to ? ....


e smile s

#4728 02/13/06 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
I read both of those columns, extrasense. Neither of them make any comment on the state of science.
To read does not mean to understand, apparently.

e laugh s
Maybe you could point out, in those articles, all the criticisms of science. It would be such a service for myself and the other illiterates who post here.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4729 02/13/06 07:16 PM
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Extrasense:

You've shirked every request made to you to explain yourself. Instead of answering, you've attempted to insult the people making the requests. Do you think this is an effective way of communicating the message you want to communicate?

You ARE effectively communicating a message, but I usually hear that message from people who are pushing a shopping cart full of their worldly possessions in front of them.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
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#4730 02/13/06 07:58 PM
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extraNONsense wrote:
"In fact, no scientist that I've contacted on that matter, has suggested that there is something wrong with the substance - just with the style and shortness. But it is not why it was rejected."

They were being kind. If it was just a question of style you could fix the style. If it was the brevity you could write more. You get a bit closer to the truth when you write: "But it is not why it was rejected" without stating the real reason why.

It was rejected because it contains elementary school math, does not discuss prior art, nor does it contain anything that doesn't have webbed feet.

Can you say "Do you want fries with that?"


DA Morgan
#4731 02/14/06 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
nor does it contain anything that doesn't have webbed feet.
Well, a lot of money is being made of this fraud. Any excuse to continue it goes.

e laugh s

#4732 02/14/06 05:42 PM
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A lot of money is being made from electricity, airplanes, antibiotics, and #2 pencils. Does that make them frauds?

Instead of focusing on the successes of others why don't you put your energy into going back to school and learning some math and physics.


DA Morgan
#4733 02/15/06 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Instead of focusing on the successes of others why don't you put your energy into going back to school and learning some math and physics.
If I to pay you for the advice, a quoter would suffice.

e smile s

#4734 02/15/06 07:45 PM
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As it appears you consider math dangerous. And as you have asked for a quoter ... I will oblige you wihth one quote.

"Authorities believe he is a member of the
notorious Al-Gebra movement. He is being charged
with carrying weapons of math instruction."


DA Morgan
#4735 02/18/06 11:31 AM
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extrasence, if you are sure of your theory (which i havent read, so am reserving judgement) try doing what any good scientist should and spend some time trying to disprove it. if it is solid it will stand up to what you find has been already proven, if it doesn't go back to the drawing board.


If you believe everything you read, better not read.
#4736 02/26/06 02:35 AM
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Extrasense, I don't want to seem mean, but you shouldn't try to make your point by saying other people are stupid.

First, you think quantum computing is a wrong, that parallel's the leader's of Galileo's time. Focusing to much on the "I'm right" mantality is never science, and that seems to be what you are doing. Science forms a hypothesis, finds models, and then tests it to see if it is correct. With quantum computing, that is what they are working towards. They have the hypothesis, and are developing the field more with models and tests of those models to eventually try to test one in practice. As of now, I can't say if it will be practical or even work well, but that's what the scientists are for, to test them out.

Second, one 3 page paper that uses simple math and biased conclusions that try to make a claim that the models of quantum entangling boil down to is a sign of a lot of ignorance, no offence.

Thrid, There is not a lot of money being made by this fraud. The big computing companies are the ones puting forth a lot of the money to their own research teams to research this field. This isn't really money being made, it seems more like money being lost.

So instead of trying to say "I'm right and you guys are stupid for not understanding the pointless paper I wrote." try and come up with some valid sources by real researchers in this field to show why it is a myth. And I can make similar claims like Edison made, that alternating currents of electricity are harmful and not a good way to transport electricity, and this was based off of his own opinion, and no reaserch.

#4737 02/26/06 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danismyname:
you shouldn't try to make your point by saying other people are stupid.
I do not believe I've ever said that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Danismyname:
one 3 page paper that uses simple math and biased conclusions that try to make a claim that the models of quantum entangling boil down to is a sign of a lot of ignorance
With this statement you commit the offence that you've just accused me smile
Quote:
Originally posted by Danismyname:
come up with some valid sources by real researchers in this field to show why it is a myth.
There are some, but relatively few. The thing is that you are wrong, my article is the authority on this matter.

e laugh s

#4738 02/26/06 07:12 PM
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extraNOnsense wrote:
"my article is the authority on this matter."

An unpublished, unpublishable, missive with middle school level math is the authority on the matter?

Which are you? Megalomaniac or fool?

Please notify us when the Nobel Committee calls.

ROFL.


DA Morgan
#4739 02/26/06 11:14 PM
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Quote:
"Certainly, I could.
Most of the "nanotechnology" is a fraud or myth.
NASA science is an oximoron.
Anthropoid string theory is a nonesense.

The mentioned here and on my sites, are just tip of the iceberg.

How to fix this decay?

We need at least to start exposing the scoundrels, kick them out of professorships, and fund the real research with the billions saved from their clatches."

"With educators like you, no wonder the American science is in decline."

"To read does not mean to understand, apparently."

"You are igmorant kook of educator, asking idiotic questions which show that to be true to everybody.
And you have the gull to doubt my education level! Better stop making fool of yourself and continue quietly collect your unearned salary."
These quotes seem to me to be stating that DA Morgan is "stupid"
I'm not saying that DA Morgan isn't calling you "stupid" either, but I'm saying that you are trying to make you point only based on calling him "stupid" and he is showing you plenty of proof.

Quote:
You have made my case, by showing the infinite amount of crap, produced by the pseudoscince parasite.
So does that mean one paper that is completly based on a biased premise that doesn't even come close to accuratley depicting quantum mechanics is the authority on the matter. I can do the same thing with gravity, making a 3 page paper with low level math to prove that the theory of gravity is hoax, and that all the papers and tests out there that show it is true are a pseudoscience parasite to get money.

Quote:
There are some, but relatively few. The thing is that you are wrong, my article is the authority on this matter.
The only thing that I can muster for your entire responses in this thread is that the relatively few valid sources are "my 3 page paper". This is not a valid source. There is no corraboration with it. It attempts to say that the model it presents is an accurate depiction of the quantum computing model when it is not.

Now if you can show some valid research papers done by people working in this field that say "Quantum computing is never going to be possible" then you will have some compelling evidence. I beleive that some do publish saying things along the lines of "We have run into some problems such as these, and we have had some breakthroughs such as these. We need to change some of the theory to fit the new data". I don't look for much like this sicne I only care about the breakthroughs, which there are plenty. Showing a paper like this means nothing, it just means that they need to change a little of the theory as they had to do with electricty, radio, nuclear physics to name a few.


Now back to the original topic of the thread since there has been enough "Flaming"...

Science decline in classrooms is partly due to some teachers not enjoying their job. Also there are certain things that you don't want to tell children about science just like you do the same thing with history. It's easier to tell them "This is the absoulte truth" rather than "this is how it really is".

For example with Chemistry, why teach them about "Bohr's Model" of how the electrons are arranged when it is not accurate at all? The reason, it's easy to teach and easy to learn, and it's what the text books say to teach. It's hard to change text books.

#4740 02/27/06 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danismyname:
Now if you can show some valid research papers done by people working in this field that say "Quantum computing is never going to be possible" then you will have some compelling evidence
You seem to insist on me presenting something that you are not going to read, let alone understand. Hey, you've get it. Enjoy.

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=quant-ph/0110040&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=quant-ph/9805002&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=quant-ph/9705032&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=quant-ph/0512248&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=cond-mat/0110326&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=quant-ph/0309070&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

http://search.arxiv.org:8081/paper.jsp?r=quant-ph/0010109&qid=11410063076871661658480&qs=quantum+AND+computing

e smile s

#4741 02/27/06 03:14 AM
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The first link states:
"limitations of the circuit model"

The is a discussion of a specific model. It says nothing about quantum computing itself.

The other links similarly say nothing about quantum computing itself. Which is wise given the fact that quantum computing has been proven repeatedly to work.


DA Morgan
#4742 02/27/06 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
It says nothing about quantum computing itself..
Unfortunately, the intellectual blindless and deafness are impossible to heal

e laugh s

#4743 02/27/06 06:11 PM
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Perhaps if you consulting a physician you might receive help with that too.


DA Morgan
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