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#4661 11/26/05 02:23 AM
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I wouldn't mind teaching intelligent design in high school. It was a topic well discussed in the nineteenth century (Ruse, Michael 2005 The Evolution-Creation Struggle. Harvard U. Press). Most of the arguments possible have been put forward and have been elegantly refuted by the careful dispassionate works of scientists. The debate over intelligent design illustrates the gradual and elegant working of the scientific method. Students would benefit from reviewing it. The Bush pro-ignorance anti-science policy can only do short-term damage to science. People want and need more education. With that education will come a respect for science. Then, cheap political tricks to corall the ignorant will have fewer chances of success.

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#4662 11/26/05 11:27 AM
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Anaximander, I am afraid that what you see today as the anti-science policy, and more generally the anti-science current is not a a cause for some short-time future damage to science, but it already is the effect of a trend that was started decades ago, about a generation ago. As such, the damage done is already long-term, and unfortunately it still is on the rise.

#4663 11/27/05 12:24 AM
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Anaximander ... Sarcasm will likely get you lynched in the new America. This country no longer has a sense of humor.

Or ethics that aren't manufactured out of biblical nonsense or a law book.


DA Morgan
#4664 11/30/05 06:52 PM
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I don't think the "war on science" will be a major detriment to scientific inquiry in general, but more likely a detriment to scientific inquiry in the US. You don't hear about these problems much in Europe, India or China.

In popular culture, the slow degradation of the sciences as a career might have begun in the late 60s or 70s. Before then, scientists were depicted in movies and television as intelligent, noble people. Gradually we ended up depicted as goofy nerds at best, or maniacal villains at worst.

Today, when I'm out in the field characterizing the soils on a landscape, I just can't keep myself from an outburst of maniacal laughter now and then.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha!

Oops.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4665 11/30/05 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
degradation of the sciences as a career
Someboody told me, that science should not be a carrer, but a calling.

#4666 12/01/05 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
degradation of the sciences as a career
Someboody told me, that science should not be a carrer, but a calling.
What did that person mean by "a calling?" An interest in it? A knack for it?


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4667 12/01/05 04:05 PM
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Hey! I just noticed I'm no longer a *junior member*. I can just feel the additional wisdom! I have an uncontrollable need to stroke my chin thoughtfully.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4668 12/01/05 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Quote:
Originally posted by soilguy:
degradation of the sciences as a career
Someboody told me, that science should not be a carrer, but a calling.
What did that person mean by "a calling?" An interest in it? A knack for it?
Something that one does even if it brings misfortune on him; something that like virtue, is its own reward.

I think that now I understand him better, than I did then.

es

#4669 12/01/05 09:45 PM
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Well I certainly could have done better, financially, if I chose a different profession! I can't say I regret it, though. Could be worse, I could have had a calling to be a (gasp!) teacher!


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4670 12/02/05 06:44 AM
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Teachers are at the mercy of the local school board. They are typically overworked, underpaid and often underqualified. My son's high school English teacher was a sports coach who could not correctly pronounce "alacrity" and did not know enough grammar to teach the subject. HIs ignorance was exceeded only by his attitude, which was in need of correction. My son had more understanding of English grammar in sixth grade than did this man who was teaching in High School. But he was a good coach so they overlooked his weaknesses as a teacher. Is it any wonder the students are apathetic, with that as an example set before them?

#4671 12/02/05 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amaranth Rose:
HIs ignorance ...Is it any wonder the students are apathetic, with that as an example set before them?
The way to teach education is to fix Science, Academics, then School, in this order

es

#4672 12/02/05 03:12 PM
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"My son's high school English teacher was a sports coach"

My oldest daughter's computer science teacher is also her swim coach. They call it CS, but it's really a java programming class. He knows a little about java, but the kinds of questions on the tests show that he's missed the boat:

"How many constructors are there for such and such a class" (from memory, not by looking it up) This is the silly sort of question that is geared to favor people who study minutiae without understanding what it is they're doing.

I gave her an intro to CS using VB before the year began. Starting out she was reluctant, because she thought I was trying to get her to be a programmer. Finally I convinced her that I was just trying to impart a valuable skill to her that she could do with as she wished. After the first lesson, she was coming to me ASKING if I could teach her some computer science. She started the school year very excited. Now she despises the class. Almost everyone's making A's and learning nothing of consequence.

He's a likeable, but garrulous sort of fellow. But he has single-handedly convinced my daughter that she doesn't want to pursue any further interests in CS.

I could talk for hours about how badly the math education system sucks - and we're supposedly in one of the better public school systems in the country! For three years running my oldest kid was in honors math, making the highest As in the class, and learning zilch. If it weren't for my augmenting her schooling, she'd be in trouble this year, now that she finally has a competent teacher.

There aren't enough qualified math teachers to fill the classrooms. They use what good teachers they have and make up the balance with incompetent yahoos.

#4673 12/02/05 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amaranth Rose:
Teachers are at the mercy of the local school board. They are typically overworked, underpaid and often underqualified.
You won't get any disagreement from me. I've been told that I would make a good teacher (by teachers), but after looking into what my daily reality would be if I made that move, I couldn't manage it financially. I might do it when I retire, but that's a couple of decades away, I think.

Salaries are key. Most people who emerge from grad school have significant debts to deal with, and often families to support.


When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis
#4674 12/03/05 05:29 PM
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Sorry members.

I have requested that my reply be removed. I now feel it would be ill advised for me to discuss this topic on this Forum.
jjw

#4675 12/03/05 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jjw004:
I did represent school districts defense and the pre-job requirements, were at times, shameful in my opinion.
This follows from science hijacked by pseudo.
From which follows university "professors" are nil or worse. From which follows the college teachers are nothing. from which follows that school teachers are nil.

Money will not solve that. A good new broom would.

es

#4676 12/09/05 09:58 PM
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the difference between a calling and a proffetion is something along the lines of
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." Edward Bulwer-Lytton


If you believe everything you read, better not read.
#4677 12/11/05 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beaker:
the difference between a calling and a profession is something along the lines of
"Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." Edward Bulwer-Lytton
Thanks for a good quotation.

es

#4678 12/11/05 05:20 PM
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What makes it far more difficult for teachers, and society as a whole, is that some people take pride in their idiocy. It's chavs over here, I guess everyone has the equivalent in each country. These people know that they know nothing (which supposedly is the first step toward wisdom) but are proud of the fact. Life and learning should go hand in hand, don't stop till your dead.


If you believe everything you read, better not read.
#4679 12/11/05 06:32 PM
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Same group of people that blindly follow self-annointed leaders.

They confuse the fact that they stopped thinking with coming to a conclusion.


DA Morgan
#4680 12/25/05 09:14 PM
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Though that may be true, if the leader was extremely intelligent, it would work out well for both the leader and the fools if the leader is honest. More realisticly, if the leader was corrupt it would work out very well for the leader.

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