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#46383 - 11/29/12 02:20 AM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: paul]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
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Originally Posted By: paul
by the age of the fossils found in the surroundings.


Originally Posted By: bill gill

Your last statement is almost completely wrong. The ages of fossils are found by a number of different techniques. Most of the ones that give actual dates, rather than relative dates, use various scientific techniques based on the radioactive decay of various elements. Since the decay of radioactive elements is extremely well understood it can be used to very accurately date the age of the fossils.




Quote:
Many people have heard of the Carbon 14 method and assume that fossils are dated by it. Actually, in most cases the C-14 method is useful only on organic material less than about 50,000 years old, which includes many human remains and artifacts, but excludes most fossils. Absolute dating of fossils requires other dating methods such as the potassium-argon or rubidium-strontium methods, which involve isotopes with slower decay rates (longer "half-lives"). Such isotopes are rare in fossils themselves, but may occur in surrounding or adjoining rock layers, yielding an approximate age for the fossil-bearing unit. Using the principles discussed above, scientists also can deduce the approximate age of other layers correlated with the same formation, as well as an approximate age for layers above and below the formation (which would be somewhat younger and older respectively).

The terms "above" and "below" in this context are used in a relative or stratigraphic sense; that is, they are based on the positions of the units relative to each other (or correlated units), rather than their height above sea level. The branch of geology that deals with the correlation of rock layers is known as stratigraphy (or biostratigraphy when focusing on the fossils within the layers), and is an important tool of paleontologists.



Quote:
Potassium is thought to be therapeutically useful in many ways, including assisting in the treatment of alcoholism, acne , alleviating allergies , promoting the healing of burns , and preventing high blood pressure. It can also help with such problems as congestive heart failure, chronic fatigue syndrome , or kidney stones . People suffering from any of the above should consider increasing their intake of potassium after talking to a professional.


Quote:
Symptoms of potassium deficiency
A deficiency of potassium in the blood is referred to as hypokalemia and manifests itself in many ways. Among the most serious are arthritis, high blood pressure, heart disease, stroke, cancer , and even infertility , as potassium constitutes a vital element of seminal fluid.

Potassium deficiency will increase acid levels in the body, lowering the natural pH, which will have far reaching effects. Lack of potassium can also aggravate problems caused by lack of protein. If potassium levels are down, the liver cannot operate normally, particularly regarding transformation of glucose to glycogen. A healthy liver should have about twice as much potassium as sodium.

Potassium deficiency can cause problems with the formation of connective tissue, and can render normally strong body tissue vulnerable to all kinds of problems. The collagen of a healthy person is approximately as strong as steel, and the strength of bone tissue can be likened to that of cast iron . Lack of potassium may create a susceptibility to fractures , skin lesions that do not heal, or other connective tissue problems. So important is potassium for the protection of collagen that many natural health gurus claim that along with other vital nutrients, it constitutes an essential element of protection against premature aging . As long ago as the 1920s, Max Gerson was the first person ever to cure lupus lesions with a diet designed to reduce abnormally high sodium levels and raise potassium levels to normal, which was entirely raw fruit and vegetables.

Potassium is essential to the efficient processing of foods in the body; without it they cannot be broken down into the proper compounds. This can lead to rheumatism, and is one reason why adequate potassium prevents rheumatism.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46384 - 11/29/12 12:24 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

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It turns out that half-life is pretty easy to measure. The following is an example.

http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-physics/measuring-half-life-protactinium
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If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#46385 - 11/29/12 05:09 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
and I suppose that since a fossil isn't actually the genuine
part of the animal but is only a shape that makes up what
the animal used to look like.


Paul, the part does not necessarily equal the whole.

What you say is true of some fossils, but certainly not all. For example, I have a collection of fossils from the East Anglian Red Crag. All of these are composed of the calcite or aragonite of which the various creatures would have formed their hard parts.

In the underlying (older) London Clay, fossilization is more mixed. Some fossils, such as sharks’ teeth, show little or no alteration; whereas wood fragments are almost always replaced by pyrite, often with beautifully preserved detail.

On the North Norfolk coast I have collected fossils at Hunstanton, where the Lower Chalk overlies the Red Chalk with a very clear break. There is a marked difference between the fossils in each formation, and an even more marked difference in the lithology. The underlying Carstone contains no fossils, and is a deposit that is typical of a completely different depositional environment. How easily can one equate these differences, taken only from relatively recent deposits, with the belief that fossilization came about as a result of a single, global flood?
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#46386 - 11/29/12 05:19 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136


shake it up.



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3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46388 - 11/29/12 05:24 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
paul Offline
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http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-physics/simple-model-exponential-decay

Quote:
a Explain the procedure (as follows) to the class.

b Each student has a number of coins. This could be between one and four. They hold them in their cupped hands.

c On your instruction "shake", the students shake their coins for at least 5 seconds (they should ensure that the coins are moving around inside their cupped hands). On the instruction "stop", they stop shaking and open their hands with one hand flat and facing upwards so that they can see their coins.

d If any coins come down heads, they take them out of their palm and place them on the desk.

e On your instruction "show", they put up a number of fingers corresponding to the number of coins they took out of their palm.

f Record this number on the board.

g They keep the remaining coins in their hands and repeat from step c. If you can arrange it that you take a reading once every minute, then you can record the readings against time. It will then give results very similar to protactinium.

h Analyze the result by plotting a graph.


so its a very accurate dating method then.

why not just tell people how old things are , like they do now , and avoid the need to actually do something to find out?

that's the way I would do it if I needed to protect a theory.

I watched a show last night where a scientist (?) dated a piece of wood , his determination was in a range from

8900 yr old to 900 yr old.

he then emphasized "somewhere in the middle ages" LOL

what a poser.

sounds like things did get mixed up quite a bit.

for some strange reason I would think that if a piece of
wood had elements in it that are 8900 years old then the
poser scientist should have established the age of the wood
to as old as 8900 years old.

how could the piece of wood travel back in time
from the middle ages to 8900 years ago to get some of the 8900
year old elements?









_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46389 - 11/29/12 05:26 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
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Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Clever, but certainly not an answer to anything other than the most superficial glance at the question.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#46390 - 11/29/12 05:31 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
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Loc: Essex, UK
BTW, Paul; this is not a catch question and will not be followed by any of those “Well, in that case……” type questions. I am just curious to know; do you accept the Genesis account of creation as being an accurate, detailed account of the origin of the Earth/Universe?
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There never was nothing.

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#46391 - 11/29/12 05:37 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
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Quote:
Clever, but certainly not an answer to anything other than the most superficial glance at the question.


its hard to follow when you dont quote me.

like I did above.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46392 - 11/29/12 05:45 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
BTW, Paul; this is not a catch question and will not be followed by any of those “Well, in that case……” type questions. I am just curious to know; do you accept the Genesis account of creation as being an accurate, detailed account of the origin of the Earth/Universe?


Moses wrote Genesis , he was a extremely well educated man
for his time , possibly even our time.

he had to use history that was passed down from generation to generation to write the book of Genesis.

taking that into consideration , YES.

I do accept the Genesis account of creation as being an accurate, detailed account of the origin of the Earth/Universe
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46394 - 11/29/12 08:33 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
I do accept the Genesis account of creation as being an accurate, detailed account of the origin of the Earth/Universe


Thanks for the straight answer.
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There never was nothing.

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#46397 - 11/29/12 08:55 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill S.]
Bill Offline
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Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Bill, you do realize that a discussion with a creationist is kind of like hitting your head with a hammer. It feels so good when you quit. Look back at the link that I included in my first post in this topic and you may get some insight into why they act the way they do.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#46398 - 11/29/12 09:38 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Bill
Since we have some people on SAGG who apparently don't understand about science and the scientific method I thought I would post a link to this discussion of why some people resist science.

The Edge:WHY DO SOME PEOPLE RESIST SCIENCE?
By Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg


I'm not going to do much discussion of the subject, I will just post a few judicious quotes from the Implications topic in the paper.


Quote:
In sum, the developmental data suggest that resistance to science will arise in children when scientific claims clash with early emerging, intuitive expectations. This resistance will persist through adulthood if the scientific claims are contested within a society, and will be especially strong if there is a non-scientific alternative that is rooted in common sense and championed by people who are taken as reliable and trustworthy.
BG, thanks for posting this topic.

BTW, I always ask Biblical literalists/creationists: Why is your "god" so silent, so shy and old fashioned? Surely, any god who wrote, or inspired the writing of, 66 documents called "the Bible" (the book) must be aware of the Internet and its power. How come "he" has avoided this powerful tool?

I write as one who values all the great minds of our past, especially those who had the courage to use their brains to do more than just survive. They seemed, intuitively, to want to improve things and to add to the storehouse of human knowledge.

Also, they had the courage to ask questions like: Who am I? And who are you? What, together, do we do next? When do we do it? Where is the best place to do it? And Why is it important and necessary?

This kind of topic stimulates--I know it stimulates me--to ask all kind of questions. Here, for now, are just a few for now:

1. What is the history behind what we call the sciences? To begin with, check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science#Science_in_the_Ancient_Near_East

2. Before the first thinkers became scientists, what were they? Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoscience

3. It is probably not by accident that the first proto scientists were the first clergy (witch doctors, shamans, etc.) who, claiming to have access to sacred knowledge given to them by the gods. For example, they were probably the first to discover the art of writing. No doubt they used this knowledge to impress and cultivate the friendship of the king (the chief) and others with power and wealth, who served the king. Naturally, they want a share of the wealth. And, to be fair: some did want the rich and powerful to share with the poor and needy.

THEOS--THE SKY GOD
Think of the familiar story that is part of the Christmas story. It is about the VISITORS FROM THE EAST--The Magi, the Three Wise Men, which is told only in Matthew 2.

Those ancient astrologers, who were polytheists, looked to the sky as the place of the gods.

I assume the Magi were Monotheists, or theists. Theists put all the gods together and speak of THEOS (The Sky GOD)--the One and Only True God. Some linguists suggest that our definite article 'the' comes from the same root. So do words like theatre, theory, theorem, thesis, therapy and theology. Makes sense.

Whether gods many, or as The One, the ancients looked for practical guidance in the present. THEOS-GOD helped travellers, by land and sea, to find their way. Farmers got help about the seasons and the best times to plant crops. Astrologers began to chart the constellations.

Thus they became the first astrologers. Later, many became astronomers.

Any astronomers here?

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#46401 - 11/30/12 04:47 AM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
like hitting your head with a hammer.

ouch!
Quote:
It feels so good when you quit.


so that's what happened?
there's got to be a better way for you bill.
have you tried sticking toothpicks under your fingernail's?

there wont be as much brain damage involved.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46402 - 11/30/12 04:51 AM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
Thanks for the straight answer.


I thought you guys already knew , but I suppose you are all
newbies.

and I normally don't discuss religion with atheist , it's like
vomiting up some really good food , such a waste.


Isaac Newton's religious views
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_religious_views

a very smart man

einstein on the other hand was a fruitcake.

and he became a mad man.

he was also a atheist.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#46424 - 12/01/12 06:51 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Bill G, et al: I assume that this thread is now kaput, defunct, dead! The victim, I assume, of the inability of some of us to use the dialogue method.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#46426 - 12/01/12 09:21 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Bill G, et al: I assume that this thread is now kaput, defunct, dead! The victim, I assume, of the inability of some of us to use the dialogue method.
Like your Philosophy of religion thread? So many failing to meet your terms and cater to your need for attention by assuming the dialogue of your preferences.

I hate when that happens.. whistle
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#46427 - 12/01/12 11:59 PM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
TT, from what you write in response to any number of posters here, I feel that it is you who, as one of us mere human beings, who really craves attention--as do all normal writers. Why else do writers write, if not for readership, attention?

The bottom line is: Tell us who you really are, your expertise, etc. And I, for one, will gladly agree to be of help, OK! and agape ... smile
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#46428 - 12/02/12 03:24 AM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
TT, from what you write in response to any number of posters here, I feel that it is you who, as one of us mere human beings, who really craves attention--as do all normal writers. Why else do writers write, if not for readership, attention?

Expansion of the subject at hand, rather than personal attention and expansion of ones ego or the need for self validation and personal glory.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

The bottom line is: Tell us who you really are, your expertise, etc. And I, for one, will gladly agree to be of help, OK! and agape ... smile
Sorry. Unlike you who prizes the validity of information as the outpouring of title and self worth, I choose to let the subject be of importance rather than myself taking the spotlight and attention from the subject.

Who I am is of no consequence other than to those who are themselves finding a threat to their own need for attention, and their need to compare ones self worth to another and to self validate.

Selfless service does no invalidate one.
It only comes from those who are stable enough to live with themselves without needing to lean on others to stabilize their own feelings of worthiness.

Giving ones self title and then making comparisons to make sure one is worthy is not such a great human quality.

Truth is not the possession of those with a Title or those with a need to emphasize their worth by achieving a title.

Thanks for your offer to help, but I can do without your system of identity and measures of worth, as well as the need to attach ones self to others ideas to prove yourself as a worthy human being.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#46429 - 12/02/12 05:01 AM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Bill]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
As per usual, TT, other than what you think of me, I just learned nothing about you, or from you. Thanks, for nothing! Why bother to write if that is all you have to say? Sad!

BTW, I agree that Jesus did not go around boasting that he was better than other people, but in Luke 2:52, it is stated clearly that, even as a youth he was no wimp. Even with older and wise teachers in the Temple, he did not hold back from having a dialogue with them. Luke writes that he grew physically and mentally and in favour with God and men.

Likewise, he deliberately told his disciples stand up, have faith in themselves, speak out, launch off into the deep, to get things done and not hide their light under a bushel, keeping others in the dark. Let your light shine.

Paul, in Philippians 2, 6-11--the famous KENOSIS passage--writes poetically that "He always had the nature of God ... " and many other wonderful qualities.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#46432 - 12/02/12 06:55 AM Re: Why do some people resist science? [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
As per usual, TT, other than what you think of me, I just learned nothing about you, or from you.

That leaves you free to make your determinations of what I am about and who I am, Just like you assumed your position of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi after your friend told you what he believed about him, and without ever getting to know him or spend time with him personally.

What worth is there to any assumption if it is not your experience?

You and your idea of God. The testimonies to the opinions of your interpretations of realities assumed, in the comparisons you make from others who write of their experiences in their books on reality as you present them, do not convince me you understand what you are talking about.
It takes more than words to convince me you know of what you speak. I will give you this, you know how to drop names and copy and paste, but the conversation you make always leads back to what you feel is the reason for writing, which is to get attention.
That being your belief, as you have stated, I'd like to know why? What do you need from this attention you crave?

Why just talk the talk to get attention when you can walk the talk and be free of the need to be fed by the recognition of others?
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Thanks, for nothing! Why bother to write if that is all you have to say?
You mean why bother to write if it is something you can't get behind and make your own without the experience?
Maybe so you can do something different with your life rather than end it after assuming everything you attach yourself to.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Sad!

Yes, what you represent and how you understand things is. Pretty much a waste of mind.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, I agree that Jesus did not go around boasting that he was better than other people, but in Luke 2:52, it is stated clearly that, even as a youth he was no wimp. Even with older and wise teachers in the Temple, he did not hold back from having a dialogue with them. Luke writes that he grew physically and mentally and in favour with God and men.

Yes and through the example of his knowledge and mastery. However it never impressed the Pharisees or Sadducees as they asked the same question you ask. "Who are you, but a son of a carpenter? We are men of breeding and of title! Who are you to tell us about God?!" They didn't much like his dialogue, because it made reference to their weaknesses in spirituality and character.

Some people will only accept truths that follow titles and the intimidation of authority.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Likewise, he deliberately told his disciples stand up, have faith in themselves, speak out, launch off into the deep, to get things done and not hide their light under a bushel, keeping others in the dark. Let your light shine.

Which obviously had nothing to do with preparing a resume or a list of background references, but rather to speak of Truth without insisting the ignorant agree, or take a liking to them.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Paul, in Philippians 2, 6-11--the famous KENOSIS passage--writes poetically that "He always had the nature of God ... " and many other wonderful qualities.

Qualities that a man with no experience of God could appreciate. Which is why the authorities of title, and with the need to protect themselves from the scrutiny of others put him to death on the cross.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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