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#36957 - 01/03/11 03:08 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: socratus
"One cannot escape the feeling that these mathematical formulae have an independent existence and an intelligence of their own, that they are wiser than we are, wiser even than their discoverers, that we get more out of them than was originally put into them."


If one commits fully to the idea of an infinite cosmos, then these mathematical formulae, their discoverers, their users and everyone and everything else share a complete oneness. The apparent distinction comes about only as a result of our incomplete perception of infinity.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#37018 - 01/09/11 06:32 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Bill S.]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
There are many meaning of the word ‘ Religion’.
What is Religion for me?
#
Book ‘ The pushcart prize, III:
Best of the small presses.
From a journey through the land of Israel.
By Pinchas Saden. Pages 132-133 ‘

‘ To be religious, in my terms, means to understand that
life is a parable of which God is the meaning – that is,
to live life as a struggle to make contact with the divine.
. . . .
– in other words, by the drying up of the previously
renewable source of human contact with God.
. . . . . .
There can be no other significance to life beside worshiping Him.
The rest is simple a question of how one understands this worship –
- that is, of how one understands God.
Worshiping God, as the phrase suggests*, has nothing to do with
pleasure or cultural frills. It is work, hard work, like paving a road,
or farming land, or building a house.
In general, I don’t believe that the purpose of life in this world is
to snatch a little pleasure here or there. If it were, we might as
well have been born bedbugs. In whatever we live and do – in our
happiness, our suffering, our love, our hate, our passions,
our thoughts – we must live and do it not just for itself, but as
a parable, as a question, as a war. As work. As worship.
What is man? Man is question. God is answer.
If the answer were available here, in this life, the question
would be unnecessary. The painful tension between the two
gives life its energy.’
=====================. .
/ * In Hebrew the word for ‘ Worship’ avoda,
is the same as the word for ‘ work’. Translator./
========.

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#37023 - 01/09/11 09:10 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
If it were, we might as well have been born bedbugs.


Of course, there are those who believe we might have been bedbugs in a former life, or might be in time to come.
Tot homines quot sententiae!!
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#37029 - 01/10/11 12:29 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
WHAT DOES THE WORD 'RELIGION' MEAN, TO ME? WHEN I SAY, "I AM RELIGIOUS" WHAT AM I TELLING YOU?
=================================SOCRATUS, YOU TELL ME:
Originally Posted By: socratus
There are many meanings of the word 'Religion’.
What is Religion, for me?

Book, A Journey through the land of Israel,
By Pinchas Saden. Pages 132-133

To be religious, in my terms, means to understand that
life is a parable of which God is the meaning – that is,
to live life as a struggle to make contact with the divine.
...
In whatever we live and do – in our happiness, our suffering, our love, our hate, our passions, our thoughts – we must live and do it not just for itself, but as a parable, as a question, as a war. As work. As worship.

What is man? Man is the question. God is the answer.

If the answer were available here, in this life, the question would be unnecessary. The painful tension between the two gives life its energy.’
==============================

/ * In Hebrew the word for ‘ Worship’ avoda, is the same as the word for ‘ work’. Translator./
========.
Socratus, does this mean that, in Hebrew, 'work' is the same as worship? BTW, how well do you speak Hebrew.

Perhaps you are saying that 'work' and 'worship'ought to be one and the same. Are you?

WHAT,for me, RELIGION IS NOT
============================
Religion, for me? First of all, here is what I think, feel, and believe religion is NOT. Religion is not a physical thing. It cannot be counted, weighed and measured in a science laboratory.

In this sense, the word 'religion' has a lot in common with faith, hope, love, grace, the way you feel about yourself and your family, and the like--all of which can be summed up in two words:

1.G0D (imminent Being, in you and me) and
2.GOD (transcendent Being, in which we live, move, and have our beings as individuals).

Interestingly, the ancient Hebrews--the ancestors of many of us--had two words for what we call 'God'. Whoever wrote Genesis, used two words for 'God': ELOHIM (the power) and YAHWEH (I am who I am and choose to be).

Linguists tell us that, in the very first verse of the Bible, we have what is known as a "majestic plural".

In Genesis 1, 'God' is called ELOHIM--The 'IM' simply makes ELOH into a plural. That is, it pluralizes it. This serves the same purpose as the 's' in English. It also makes it like what we call a proper noun--the King, not just a king. Pluralizing in Hebrew, gives the noun status.

THE CHALLENGE OF TRANSLATION
============================
Use your imagination here : How on earth did our ancients ancestors--the ancient Greeks, Romans, Anglo Saxons, Franks, Scandinavians, Russians, Slavs, Persians, Chinese, Japanese ... you name it ... How did they ever get meanings across from one culture to another?

Scientists!!! We need your help. Is there such a s thing as a science of translation?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37037 - 01/10/11 01:59 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
A REVISED VERSION OF WHAT I SAID:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
WHAT DOES THE WORD 'RELIGION' MEAN, TO ME? WHEN I SAY, "I AM RELIGIOUS" WHAT AM I TELLING YOU?
==================================================
The concept of 'religion' has a lot in common with the concepts of faith, hope, love, grace, the way we feel about self, family, neighbours, friends, others, including those we perceive as enemies ...
But does this mean that religion, and the concepts we associate with it, is no importance and have no consequences--for better or for worse?

So my answer to the questions posed here: Of course religion is very important to billions of people. And it certainly does have consequences. Just read and listen to the media, anytime.

Our religion is what we believe about things, seen and unseen, and what we do about them on a day to day basis.

IMO, every truly human person has a religion. Some kinds of religions do, and have done, a lot of good; some do a lot of harm and some are just plain boring.

Now it is your turn.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37041 - 01/10/11 06:31 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
I think there are at least two problems attached to the use of the word "religion".

1. In many people's minds, it is associated with bigotry, insularity and even hatred. It is easy to forget the good, and remember the bad, especially when, almost every day, the news carries stories that re-enforce the idea that even in the 21st century religions and evil are closely associated, and not necessarily because they are locked together in combat.

2. The concepts of God and religion are so closely associated that it is easy for atheists, for example, to attack religious practices and believe they are attacking God.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#37046 - 01/10/11 11:34 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I think there are at least two problems attached to the use of the word "religion".

1. In many people's minds, it is associated with bigotry, insularity and even hatred....


Bill, you make an interesting point. If what you say is so, what I would like to know is this: How is 'religion' associated in your mind?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37326 - 02/04/11 09:32 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Chasing Euphoria Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 6
Maybe we are individual cells in prepubescent forms developing and learning together to one day form one consciousness and become one god. Break down the word religion and you find that relig means to be tied or to be bind. We are all bind to other people whatever religion, race, social class and gender we are by what we call the soul. Being conscientious is an integral part of spiritual growth which alleviates the wounds of the soul and a critical reason as to why one practices religion. The word religion is derived from the latin word religio which means to be conscientiousness. All religion has a way of purging the soul whether it be praying, confessing, fasting or etc. it is a focus in the concept of religion. Thus ridding the soul or cleansing may be a path to godhood. Mathematical formula, scientific theory, philosophy, religion, binging on drugs, alcohol and sex, petty crime, criminal enterprise, why one missed the number 34 bus by a sliver of a second; these questions and practices all share the common interest of purging the great unknown.

You can find out who, where, when, how and what gravity is but can never know why. Yes it has something to do with the gravitational force and the magnetic field surrounding the planet but why is it there? You can educated the masses answer their questions but can never answer why it is the way it is. This leads to the fact that each individual exists in the great unknown until death.

On another note would it be too hard to accept the fact that they're may have never been a god in the first place. What if everything fits in the right place if we want it to. What if our cognitive functions, our senses have been lying to us (would not be the first time mind you). These connections we make are mostly all in a abstract sense. When mathematics formula, scientific theory and philosophy in a sociological sense actually work in practice does not solve all the questions within the problem. One must ask why that specific equation or hypotheses? Would it be so hard to live if life had no meaning at all? Do the birds fly trying to achieve something or just to fly due being built the way it was? Does the wolf hunt the elk for the thrill of the kill or for sustenance? Does it wonder why he/she is a lone wolf or a member of a pack? Must we ask and accept as fact that god or another supreme being had to have created this world and placed a meaning behind it? Must we know who, what or where is god?

Would life get better or worse if we just accepted the fact that these coincidences and connection may just be in our head and how we perceive the world?


Edited by Chasing Euphoria (02/04/11 10:56 AM)

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#37329 - 02/04/11 04:04 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Chasing Euphoria]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
GREAT QUESTIONS, CE!
MAY I OFFER SOME OPINIONS?

====================================
1. would it be too hard to accept the fact that there may have never been a god in the first place?

I agree with what you imply. In my [LGK's] opinion, In the beginning there was no-thing! There was just EL--the Hebrew root for pure, neutral energy--Omnipotence (all power) without conditions. The same is true for omnipresence (everywhere present), and omniscience (all knowledge). See Genesis 1:1.

2. What if everything fits in the right place, if we want it to.

AH! YES!!! The key word is 'want'--the power to will and choose, good or evil. Take note: YaHWeH (a sacred word never verbalized by Orthodox Jews)--in English, this is 'Jehovah'--I am, was and I choose to be what I love and will to be.


3. What if our cognitive functions, our senses have been lying to us (would not be the first time mind you)?

The EGO! WOW! what a villain! In my opinion, the EGO can be a great servant, but it can also be a very divisive and dangerous enemy. In a word, it can be satanic (which is Hebrew/Arabic in origin), or a diabolic (of Greek origin)force. Anything that splits us from the true self (pneuma) and others is diabolic.


4. These connections we make are mostly all in an abstract sense. When mathematics formulas, scientific theory and philosophy, in a sociological sense, actually work in practice does not solve all the questions within the problem.

One must ask why that specific equation or hypotheses?

5. Would it be so hard to live if life had no meaning at all?

I have a question for you: Are you implying that, for human beings, life has no meaning?

THE WILL TO MEANING
===================
Have you heard of logotherapy--the work of Viktor Frankl? http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&am...amp;oq=victor+f


5. Do the birds fly trying to achieve something or just to fly due being built the way it was?

6. Does the wolf hunt the elk for the thrill of the kill or for sustenance?

7. Does it wonder why he/she is a lone wolf or a member of a pack?

So may I (LGK) ask: For you, are human beings and animal beings--including insect beings--identical beings? Are animals spiritual beings?

8. Must we ask, and accept as fact, that god or another supreme being had to have created this world and placed a meaning behind it?

I don't; but there are those who do. I often wonder, WHY?

9. Must we know who, what, or where is god?

For you, is 'god' a noun? Is God a proper noun?

Me? God and gods are mentally-created idols.

This is why I prefer the acronyms GOD and/or G0d. Questions like you ask about 'god'--are inappropriate ones. It is like asking: How far is up? Or, do streets and cars love one another?

Yes, it seems, there are crazy and dumb questions! In my opinion, that is smile



Edited by Revlgking (02/04/11 07:32 PM)
Edit Reason: Always a good idea!
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37337 - 02/05/11 07:46 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Chasing Euphoria Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 6
Why must we always categorize and label one as good, godly and holy while the other evil, satanic and blasphemy? Would our morality and ethics crumble and shutter if we rid the thin line between good and bad, the devil and angels, yin and yang, dark and light? Logic would have us believe in figures and numbers to show reason; it is the attitudes and belief that man can become better under GOD's tutelage. Passion and emotion WILLS us to connote certain actions and people as good or evil when in fact no will nor action ever encompass these connotation.

Meaning? What if your life's meaning was to make the other guy look good? To be compared, related and measured upon all others and to come out last. Where is the incentive to continue? Hope? Faith? Good will? To exist? The facts are most are in this category and only the few ever reach glory to the fact that the outside world affirms it to a major degree. So if your sole reason to exist was to make the someone else look better due to the relative cognitive functions of any average human why continue? To breed more of them? To find someone as miserable and pathetic as you?

Logotherapy... meaning is not something I seek for though I would like to thank you for leading me to the works of Viktor Frankl. If meaning was what I sought then I'd be in India or China visiting some Buddhist temple seeking the monk's tutelage.

My question is would civilization crumble if we rid the moralistic and ethical sections of society when most have come to terms that the system that is supposed to be enforcing these ideas and theories cannot be omnipresent, can easily be bought or miss the dire needs that can only alleviate when the damages have already been done?

To me this question is somewhat silly in that have we all confirmed to ourselves to a certain degree that GOD does exist whether in an abstract or physical sense.

Would some of you hate me if I considered myself a GOD when it comes to my decision and who or what effects me or I choose to keep around in my life? I know for a fact some would judge me harshly since they feel exclusion breeds hate and contempt amongst men and women but I have been excluded numerous times in the last twenty years. Must I feel guilty due to not caring and at times being a bit too cold and apathetic. Am I not who I am due to the world that was built and given to me. If I am a heartless, apathetic, unapologetic and crude is this an example of GOD's creation or my own? Free will or GOD?

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#37344 - 02/05/11 05:31 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Chasing Euphoria]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
NAMESTE AND AGAPE, CE
=====================
I have no problem thinking of you, me and others as G0ds (John 10:34). IMO, the '0', zero, indicates that we are at the alpha point--the creation point--of Being.

At this alpha-point point we have the power to will and choose to be at-one-ment with GOD--the O indicates that there is an OMEGA of space. We can choose to be in tune with the total universe.

In my opinion, THERE IS NO FUN JUST BEING GOD

The problem I have with individuals wanting to be GOD is this:
I do not will or want to be GOD, because this would logically exclude all others. Greta Garbo famously said: "I want to be alone..."
Me? I do not want to be alone. I choose to be, and want to be in GOD--a member of a great family and community.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37352 - 02/05/11 10:54 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
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Loc: Australia
Maybe what it all boils down to is that, whereas people can exist without god, god cannot exist without people.

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#37361 - 02/06/11 08:47 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
Chasing Euphoria Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 6
Correct me if I misunderstood your concept of GOD, RevikinG but are you implying that the universe is a sentience being like us?
That we are in a way just a small part of the universe like the cellular building blocks that are within us and function to keep us alive. If so, I can admit this is not the first time of hearing this concept of GOD for I too have thought of this in the past but a single question remains. Would the universe crumble if one single atom failed to commit and carry out it's job?

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#37387 - 02/08/11 06:18 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Maybe what it all boils down to is that, whereas people can exist without god, god cannot exist without people.
A G0d-like point, Ellis.

In my opinion, G+O+D, like Existence itself, cannot exist without all its components. We are components of GOD.

The freedom and choice we have is this: We can resist the opportunity--at our great loss, IMO. Or we can embrace it. Embracing GOD, or Existence, has nothing to do with the dogmas of dogmatic religions, churches.

The ministers of the church I attend are totally non-dogmatic, and non-judgmental, in their preaching. They simply ask people to meditate on the values of practicing the Golden Rule and the loving of life and existence. Any religion that tries to enforce the laws of love by the use of fear is a phony religion, a bad religion and not one that most theologians I know would recommend.

Interestingly, over half of the 10 commandments are covered by the laws of secular society, quite apart from religion. The moral laws are matters of the heart, not of the courts. Has anyone ever attacked the courts for practicing religion when they enforce the laws against killing, stealing, lying and the like?

BTW, has anyone checked how many hits there are on this thread + the one on philosophy of religion now? The number is now over 2,050,000 and growing by the day!


Edited by Revlgking (02/08/11 06:24 AM)
Edit Reason: Always good to do
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37398 - 02/09/11 04:20 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
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Loc: Australia

'BTW, has anyone checked how many hits there are on this thread + the one on philosophy of religion now? The number is now over 2,050,000 and growing by the day!


Yes Rev-- I noticed this the other day and was oddly pleased that this particular discussion, controversial though it my be, has so far remained interesting and very civil!

Congratulations to us all!

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#37403 - 02/09/11 03:54 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
WITH ST.VALENTINE'S DAY IN MIND
===============================
Ellis, at 6 o'clock this morning, I picked up my National Post.com--Canada. I live near German Mills, in Thornhill ON--an old part of Markham, Ontario. It is near the famous Yonge Street--the longest S to N street in Canada, if not the world.

After the American Rebellion in 1776, lots of British Loyalists--many of them German born, came from Pennsylvania to Canada. My wife's ancestors--including Captain William Poole Turner--were Loyalists from New England, they settled on the beautiful St. John River, which rises in Maine. Thanks Yanks!!

Yankee Captain Turner settled near Hartland, N.B.--home of the World's longest-covered bridge. The bridge is still in use. It is north of the capital of N.B.,Fredericton--a low and level area, which is subject to Spring floods.

Thornhill actually is on a hill. It is just north and above Toronto. We love to look down on the city every Canadian, who is not a Torontonian, loves to twit--not to be confused with 'tweet'.Toronto, still the home of many churches--not as full as they used to be--used to be twitted as "Toronto the Good". My son and his family, I'll have you know, are Torontonians--They live in DAAAWN ...Don Mills--once a very tony area of metro. Still is ...well, somewhat.

From our house--on King's Inn Trail (Kong, believe it or not, is a neighbour) laugh --we can actually see the pinnacle half of the-once-famous CN Tower, which is near Lake Ontario.

As I picked up my paper, I noticed and nodded to Venus, the Roman goddess of love and beauty. There she was, framed by a beautiful, calm, clear and bluish-black sky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus
The temperature was -10 degrees Celsius--a bright and beautiful cold day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Star#Religion_and_Mythology

BTW, the National Post.com--an excellent read--is one of the three papers (+ the Globe&Mail and the Toronto Star) I usually check out to see how we so-called human beings are treating and loving--in the agape sense of the word (or not)--one another.

Then I checked:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=37398#Post37398
--and I noticed your post, Ellis:
Quote:
Yes Rev-- I noticed this--The number is now over 2,050,000 and growing by the day!--the other day and was oddly pleased that this particular discussion, controversial though it my be, has so far remained interesting and very civil!

Congratulations to us all!
Ellis, could it be that this success is because those of us who write ARE FULL OF S.H.I.T? Does the question shocked shock you? Or do you find it amusing? laugh
IMO, I think it is because most Atheists/Agnostics/Christians/Jews/Muslims/Hindus--you name it, are, when push come to shove, full of S.H.I.T! That is, for the most part we are, or at least we would like to be: Spiritually Healthy and In Touch with IT--imminence and transcendence, as well as G+O+D--all that is good, omnipresent and delightful.
=========================================

This prompts me to ask: Is it possible that RELIGION CAN BE FUN? Anyone not heard of, or seen the musical, GODSPELL?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godspell

THE CHURCH OF GOOD SHITS AND SOME HYPOCRITES--WHATEVER FITS, INCLUDING SOME TWITS !
============================================
I once thought of starting a church with the name of The United Church of Good S.H.I.T.S.--a Society for Humans In Trouble--and one with Scruples. It would be made up of small groups of Sinners Anonymous--modeled after the famous AA Program.

NOW: Here is a challenge: Is it possible that using the sciences and the arts--especially the art of good humour--could we have a meeting of minds (psyches) and could we use them to build a virtual religion made up of groups--large and small--of people who agree that, by and large and deep down, most of us are good S.H.I.T.S.--people want to use their wits to avoid being negative twits, and hypocrites?

That is, we want to be normal human beings--but those who are willing to work at being socially healthy, intelligent, thoughtful and have scruples. Interestingly, in ancient Rome, a scruple was 20 grains of pure gold.

BTW, look what happened when the Romans lost their scruples. The debasing of the gold, silver, copper and bronze coins is what led to vicious inflation. Historians agree that it was one of the major causes of the fall of Rome--then one of the greatest, if not the greatest, centres of power on earth.


Edited by Revlgking (02/09/11 09:44 PM)
Edit Reason: Always good to do
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37405 - 02/10/11 03:27 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Well that's one interpretation--- and it made me smile!

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#37456 - 02/15/11 12:55 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Re: Comment Received for Article 'Who created God?'

Dear Israel,
In the first verses of the Bible are mentioned energy,
light and matter, all components of Einstein's famous
formula, which of course God knew about long before
Einstein discovered it.
But it is not written in the Bible because the Bible was written
to draw people to faith in God, not teach us physics.
Even today, the inclusion of this formula would confuse many
people and turn them off reading the Bible.
If you are going to base your reasoning on atheism and evolution
you will never succeed in creating a 'logical system of the universe'
because you are starting with false premises.
I suggest you study more of the articles on Creation.com so you can
understand why organisms cannot go from simple to more complex
by any natural process and especially by Neo-Darwinism.
And if atheism is true, then on what basis can you trust your brain
to generate true thoughts about the nature of God and the universe?
See http://creation.com/cs-lewis-on-materialistic-thoughts
Kind regards,
/. . . . /
========================.

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#37461 - 02/16/11 04:45 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
If atheism is 'true', then it is not necessary to generate 'true thoughts' about the nature of God because he/she/it does not exist. That is the only 'true thought' that is needed.

The universe is not the same as god. Unlike god the universe's existence can be proved, therefore further study of its origin, nature etc is justified. Whether it is a logical system or one which is chaotic I have no idea, but I can understand why people want to explore it. After all they do not have to waste time proving it's there to start with!

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#37642 - 03/02/11 06:19 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
GOD ??!!

Can God be scientist?
Book:
‘The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science.’
/ E.A. Burtt. /
==.
Quotes about God as a scientist.
#
Page 82.
‘- God is a geometrician in his creative labours- he makes the
world through and through a mathematical system.’
Page 113.
‘ God had created the world of physical existence, for the
purpose that in man, the highest natural end, the whole process
might find its way back to God’
Page 121.
‘ God has made the world of matter such that the pure
mathematical concepts intuited by mind are forever
applicable to it.’
Page 175.
‘ According to Cartesian principles God cannot abolish
extension or the laws of motion.’
#
So, maybe God can be scientist.
==============.

Where is God’s house?
Book:
‘The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science.’
/ E.A. Burtt. /

Quotes about God and his source.
#
Page 27.
‘ But the big puzzles of the modern philosophers are all
concerned with space and time.’
Page 147.
Henry More (1614 – 1687 ) . . .
‘ In the Antidote against Atheism , written prior to 1662,
he (Henry More ) suggested . . . . that space
is no other than God himself.’
Page 148.
Henry More. . . ‘ . . . . space is itself God . . . . .’
‘ That spiritual object, which we call space, . . . . . .’
‘ In other words, space is God . . . .’. . . ‘ Space is divine.’
#
Isaac Barrow ( 1630- 1677) Newton,s teacher .
Page 155.
‘What is space?
It is impious, Barrow observes, to regard space as a real existence
independent of God; likewise to regard matter as infinitely
extended is contrary to scripture. But, if we discover the proper
relation between space and God, we can truthfully ascribe a real
exiatence to the former. God can create worlds beyond this world,
hence God must extend beyond matter, and it is just this
superabundance of the divine presence and power that we mean by space.’
Page 161.
‘ . . . space would no longer appear independent of the deity.’
Page 260.
‘Absolute space for Newton is not only the omnipresence of God;
it is also the infinite scene of the divine knowledge and control.’
#
So, maybe God can have infinite space-house.
==========.

What is situation now?
1.
Now is consider that the Absolute Reference Frame is vacuum
with T=2,7K ( after big bang). But this parameter isn’t constant.
It decreases in time and in the future will reach vacuum: T=0K.
We cannot reach the T=0K.
But maybe God can reach this infinite space and be there.
Maybe God can have infinite mystical house behind the T=0K
2.
This vacuum is full with Dirac’s ‘negative virtual particles’.
This vacuum is full with unseen ‘ dark matter’ and ‘dark energy’.
( They are more than 90% in the Universe)
Nobody knows what there are and therefore the atheists must
not to be very confidence. Maybe God can use these ‘negative
virtual particles’, ‘ dark matter’ and ‘dark energy’ for his work.
==.
If Henry More, Isaac Barrow and Newton were live to-day they
would ask logical question:
How can God, using more than 90% of unseen and unknown
matter in the Universe, create the observant material world?.
==========.
Socratus.

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