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#32436 - 10/28/09 09:37 AM Where and Who is God ?
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Where and Who is God ?

By idea the God ( HE / SHE / IT ) must be :
1.
Something Infinity Absolute it means to be in every place
2.
And something Absolute Concrete/ Limited it means
to be exactly in the concrete place.

Question:
Can God create our World without physics laws and formulas ?
The answer is: No !
Question:
Have physicists found these two Absolute parameters
in the Universe ?
My answer is: Yes !
One Infinity Absolute Parameter is Vacuum: T=0K.
Second Absolute Concrete/ Limited Parameter is speed of
Quantum of Light in Vacuum: c=1.

Using these two Absolute Parameters I explain
the creation of the Universe step by step.
== .
Thomas Jefferson wrote in the letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816
/ ...the more a subject is understood,
the more briefly it may be explained. /

Einstein said:
/ You do not really understand something unless
you can explain it to your grandmother. /

I think everybody can understand my theory.
==== .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.

http://www.worldnpa.org/php2/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&id=1372
===================== . .

Top
.
#32441 - 10/29/09 02:27 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia

Einstein said:
"You do not really understand something unless
you can explain it to your grandmother."

----What a patronising old git he was!

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#32442 - 10/29/09 06:53 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: socratus
Where and Who is God ?

By idea the God ( HE / SHE / IT ) must be :
1.
Something Infinity Absolute it means to be in every place...
http://www.worldnpa.org/php2/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&id=1372
===================== . .

For me?

G0D=all that is good, orderly and desirable.

What do I do with evil?
I see it as chaos=good in the process of becoming order--good in the making.

Formally, I use two acronyms to express my theory of god: GzeroD, that is, GOD in quantum,or micro realm,
And GOD, in the macro realm--as relative being.
=======================
ORDINARILY, I will write god. It is easier. He doesn't mind because he does not exist, or mind. He just is! laugh

To know physical existence is to know god in the physical format;
to know that I know, and want to know more, is to know god as a mental concept,
and to know who I am, is to know god as Being itself.

In this sense I am one with god and god is in and through me. Anyone, if one so chooses, is free not to choose to be in god.

The consequences? The only thing I can imagine is: painless non-existence.

Me? I prefer the challenge of existing, even if it is painful, now and then.
========================
E=MC2+GOD as agape/love
The Universe on a T-Shirt.


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#32444 - 10/29/09 11:28 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Science and Religion: Is there a conflict?
Or maybe:
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
/ Albert Einstein. /
Or maybe:
All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.
/ Albert Einstein. /
#
Science and Religion: Is there any conflict?
Or maybe there isn’t any conflict.
Religion or Physics ? Faith or Knowledge ?
Or maybe our stupidity asks these questions.
===== .
S.

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#32446 - 10/30/09 01:00 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
How does 'god' exist? By your belief. If you believe in the mystery that is god in any of his/her/its manifestatations, or believe states of deep communication and enlightenment with the supernatural realm (plus any other etcs) - then it all exists.

If you don't it doesn't.

Actually that is all there is to it!

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#32458 - 10/31/09 02:15 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis

Einstein said:
"You do not really understand something unless
you can explain it to your grandmother."

----What a patronising old git he was!



Perhaps, but only to his grandmother!
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#32459 - 10/31/09 02:28 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
God CANNOT exist!

If god is omniscient then he knows all, by which rationale god can never change his mind, ergo god cannot think or feel.

Do you wish to be controlled by an unthinking, unfeeling force?

Oh wait, you are, gravity.

My mistake, god is gravity.

Heavy man, lol.
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#32462 - 10/31/09 04:09 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Ellis
How does 'god' exist? By your belief... If you don't it doesn't. Actually that is all there is to it!
I agree. However, for me, all real belief must express itself in action.

For example, I write posts to this thread. But until I hit the keys and send these electronic blips through cyberspace my faith, or belief--no matter how strong it is--is meaningless.

My daughter is a professional artist. She paints and carves. Now and then, as a amateur, I will do a painting or two.

Would our art mean anything to anyone if we just sat there and, with great faith and imagination, just stared at the canvas and the paints? Of course not!

BTW, IMO, hope and love, without action, are also meaningless. This is why I like to think of GOD as Goodness, Order and Design in action, and reality. I think of 'god' as self-evident Being of which I am a part, not any imaginary person-like being separate and apart from me, anything, or anyone.

I look upon faith, hope and love as triggers to action. James, the brother of Jesus, makes this the central theme of his famous letter (James 2).
I do not very often quote full text, but I like this modern version of the Bible:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%20%202&version=NLT
===============================
Faith without Good Deeds Is Dead
14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[f] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?



Edited by Revlgking (10/31/09 04:14 AM)

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#32472 - 10/31/09 04:12 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
My article / message ( book ) isn’t about faith.

I say about God’s existing using the Physics / Quantum
theory because the Old proofs about God / Religion
isn’t enough in our time.
==== .
Has God known the formula: E=Mc^2 ?
If God has known the formula why HE / SHE /IT
didn't write it in His Bible?
#
Can God be atheist, governed by scientific laws?
Have physicists found the God?
I think, Yes. They have.
=========..
The people created a God.
No one knows what the external characteristics
of this God are, a God who made himself known
with the name " I am who I am ".
Is it enough for us in the XXIc ?
Why didn’t the formula E=Mc^2 write in the Bible?
===============. .
Each religion uses a system of symbols
(images, metaphors, ancient myths and legends ,
beautiful stories) to explain its truth.
But Bernard Shaw wisely remarked :
“ There is only one religion,
although there are a hundred versions of it.”
It means that the source of all religion is one.
And I try to prove this idea with the formulas and laws of
physics. I don’t invent new formulas. I use simple formulas
which ,maybe, every man knows from school.
Is it possible? Is it enough?
Yes. Because the evolution goes from simple to the complex.
So, in the beginning we can use simple formulas and laws.
For this purpose I explain what the first law of Universe is,
and second law is and ...........etc.
Step by step I create a logical system of the Universe.
=== .
Can God be atheist, governed by scientific laws?
I think: Yes, of course.
Why?
Because if God exists, he would necessarily to work
in an Absolute Reference Frame and have set of physical
and mathematical laws to create everything in the Universe.
And we can find and understand this Absolute God’s House
and we can find and understand Cod’s Laws of the Nature.
============= . .
If I were God, I would give chance to Human
to understand who I am by analyzing the physical
formulas, equations and laws. Because to create Everything
I need them. So, logically, catching the thread of the physics
Human can understand Me and My Work.
============== .
Of course, it is only my opinion.

Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. Socratus.

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#32479 - 11/01/09 12:45 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: socratus]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Socratus wrote:
"Can God be atheist, governed by scientific laws?
Have physicists found the God?
I think, Yes. They have.
=========..
The people created a God."

That is what I mean by 'belief' creating that which is described as god.

And again:
"If I were God, I would give chance to Human
to understand who I am by analyzing the physical
formulas, equations and laws. Because to create Everything
I need them. So, logically, catching the thread of the physics
Human can understand Me and My Work."

Many people would find this "thread of physics" would help them to find 'god'. Others find 'god' in music, art or the actions of others. The sweeping grandeur of Nature, seascapes and sunsets inspire others to claim that the existence of of such things somehow prove that 'god' is real.

In fact none of these prove that 'god' exists-- They do however provide a basis for many people that such things (and there are numerous such triggers!) prove that their personal belief in the existence of their particular 'god-form' is a valid one.

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#32482 - 11/01/09 08:14 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Ellis]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
Discussions of "God" tend inevitably to end up as "word salad" because the key issue of what is meant by the term "existence" is rarely analysed.

An alternative to naive realism (objective existence) involves the non-duality of observer and observed. According to that position, "existence" always implies "relationship",and "believers" are simply those who define their "self concept" in a positive relationship with respect to "a God concept" whereas "atheists" do not. In this non-dualistic analysis concepts relace entities, and physicality is simply one possible mode of "relationship", which may or may not be evoked between concepts, two of which are "self" and "God". "Properties" are not aspects of "concepts" but expections of the nature of relationships between concepts.(Think Heisenberg !)

(Ellis might remember the Croc Dundee scenario at this point).

LATER EDIT:
Revlgking's attempt at a transcendent position...perhaps that "God" is synonymous with "relationship" or "the unity of dualities"... is merely a common expression of a psychological preference for closure of a potentional infinite regress. The ascription of "benificence" to such a closure is no doubt related to its womb-like security aspects.

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#32489 - 11/01/09 04:58 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: eccles]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: eccles

LATER EDIT:
Revlgking's attempt at a transcendent position...perhaps that "God" is synonymous with "relationship" or "the unity of dualities"... is merely a common expression of a psychological preference for closure of a potentional infinite regress. The ascription of "benificence" to such a closure is no doubt related to its womb-like security aspects.


I see it is an ongoing edit of his profile, with the need for validation. His definitions and symbolism changes as he incorporates more intellectual ideas of unity into his belief and opinion.
This is typical of the instability of belief, and the unconscious separation from the One principal that unifies all manifestations.

For example:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

for me, all real belief must express itself in action.

G0D=all that is good, orderly and desirable.

What do I do with evil?
I see it as chaos=good in the process of becoming order--good in the making.


The duality of separation presents the ultimatum that God being Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent has a quality that distances itself from that which is not God or of God quality. God is order but anything that is not orderly is not yet in order with God, but has the potential to become God, if it complies with the rules of order according to human belief and opinion.
A belief in a place, condition or experience that is without the God experience, or a condition where God is not.
His agreement with Ellis that God is a concept derived in human belief and imagination rather than a principle which underlies belief, and supports belief within the human condition, separates God from humanity by condition or preference in object subject determination, or within the limitation of human concepts based on opinion.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

To know physical existence is to know god in the physical format;

God and or spirit which supports the physical format is multidimensional, as is the physical. If the physical is reduced to a single dimension in the separation of good and evil, God is removed from the physical thru belief and injected as a principal into the form or projection of opinion which meets that condition of personal belief and opinion.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

to know that I know, and want to know more, is to know god as a mental concept,
and to know who I am, is to know god as Being itself.

Here God is reduced to personality, identifying with belief and projection of belief, which divides one thing from another, maintaining separation of objects in manifestation thru personal perceptions and identification with the physical world. My God, your God, their God, Our God,... giving quality to that, which if were omnipresent, could only be experienced if it were labeled and isolated to the conditions of personal preference.
In other words a Jew could only see a Jewish God, A Christian could only see a Christian God and the Rev can only experience a God which meets the conditions set forth within his own beliefs.
Instead of One God being the God of both Order and Chaos it is only a God of order. This is what separates the Christian from the Jew, the Protestant from the Catholic and the believers from the non-believers.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

In this sense I am one with god and god is in and through me. Anyone, if one so chooses, is free not to choose to be in god.

In a sense means in belief.

In the reflection of certain conditions, being that they are orderly and good by definition, God is present in and thru ones actions. If they are not by definition able to meet the conditions of definition and belief, God is not in and thru ones self.
This means by not being orderly, one makes a choice to not be in God, or orderly and Good as defined by the priest.

This approach was the approach of the Pharisees in Jesus' time. They accused Jesus of being a false profit and without God as they knew God, because Jesus did not fit the description of order according to their beliefs and doctrines, and because everything he represented threatened their lifestyle.

It is also the approach of the Christians who killed so many during the Spanish Inquisition, who wished to maintain an order of hierarchy and an order of control over the people for the good of the Church.

It is also the approach of the delegates of the Christian Church toward the native peoples of the Americas when Europeans began their invasion of North America to bring Order to the New World.
In order to tame the savages they had to be re-educated in the ways of God and the order of progress and growth.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#32490 - 11/01/09 06:23 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Tutor Turtle]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
TT

The concept of "order" is closely allied to those of "closure" and "intelligibility".i.e. That which is intelligible is encompassed such that all events can be dealt with in an orderly manner. Therein lies the insurance policy called "faith",its particular cover being against Shakespeare's observation of "life as a tale told by an idiot ...etc".

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#32491 - 11/02/09 03:33 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: eccles]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: eccles
TT

The concept of "order" is closely allied to those of "closure" and "intelligibility".i.e. That which is intelligible is encompassed such that all events can be dealt with in an orderly manner. Therein lies the insurance policy called "faith",its particular cover being against Shakespeare's observation of "life as a tale told by an idiot ...etc".
Relative ideals are measured within the references to self identification, and the way intelligence defines itself, Yes.
It stands to reason that the projection of God as a construct will fit into relative idealism as the ego retains its identity in measure to the construct.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#32492 - 11/02/09 04:30 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: eccles]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Ellis, "Where and Who is God?" is not a question that, as unitheist, I would ever ask. It would be like asking: "Who or where is infinity and eternity?".

Like Carl Jung, I do not have faith in a god, I wallow in GOD--as I do in space--which interpenetrates every "string" vibrating in every atom of my being.

And, BTW, it was Macbeath, not Shakespeare, who said: "Tomorrow and tomorrow ... a tale told by and idiot, signifying nothing". I think Shakes was a reasonably-good Christian.

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#32493 - 11/02/09 05:09 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I do not have faith in a god, I wallow in GOD.

And, BTW, it was Macbeath, not Shakespeare, who said: "Tomorrow and tomorrow ... a tale told by and idiot, signifying nothing". I think Shakes was a reasonably-good Christian.


Whether he was a good Christian is speculative. In Shakespeare's Macbeth, it is the internal tension and crumbling of Macbeth, entirely Shakespeare's inventions, that give the play such literary traction.
Similarly, the Good of Shakespeare's Christianity is in this case, an invention of the author of the post who speculates on the authority of the quote and wallows in personal opinion and belief.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#32494 - 11/02/09 05:26 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
socratus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/08
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Ellis, "Where and Who is God?" is not a question that,
as unitheist, I would ever ask. It would be like asking:
"Who or where is infinity and eternity?".

=================
First.
What is Absolute Reference Frame ?
What is the Source of the Universe. / My interpretation./
=== .
What was before Vacuum or Gravity ?
Does Gravity exist in Vacuum or vice versa?
What is the First Law of the Universe: Vacuum or Gravity ?
In my opinion the Universe ( as a whole ) is Eternal and
Infinite Vacuum an Absolute Reference Frame .
Why ?
== .
Fact and Speculation.
1.
Fact.
The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small
(the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately
p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that it cannot ‘close’ the Universe into sphere and
therefore our Universe as whole is ‘open’, endless Vacuum.
But what to do with the infinite Universe the physicists don't know.
The concept of infinite/ eternal means nothing
to a scientists. They do not understand how they could
draw any real, concrete conclusions from this characteristic.
A notions of ‘more, less, equally, similar ’ could not
be conformed to a word infinity or eternity.
The Infinity / Eternity is something, that has no borders,
has no discontinuity; it could not be compared to anything.
Considering so, scientists came to conclusion that the
infinity/eternity defies to a physical and mathematical definition
and cannot be considered in real processes.
Therefore they have proclaimed the strict requirement
(on a level of censor of the law):
« If we want that the theory would be correct,
the infinity/eternity should be eliminated » .
Thus they direct all their mathematical abilities,
all intellectual energy to the elimination of infinity.
Therefore they invented an abstract ‘dark matter and dark energy’.
They say: ‘ 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen.’
And nobody knows what it is.
2.
Speculation.
Unknown ‘dark matter ‘ it is matter which makes up the difference
between observed mass of a galaxies and calculated mass……
which….will …’close ‘ ….the Universe into sphere, as …….
as……the astrophysicists want.
Question:
How can the 99% of the Hidden ( dark ) matter in the Universe
create the 1% of the Visible matter ?
========================== . .
#
Now it is considered that Newton / Einstein's laws
of gravitation are basis of physics, the first laws of Universe.
But the detected material mass of the matter in the Universe
is so small that gravitation field, as whole, doesn't work
in the Universe.
So, the Newton / Einstein's laws of gravitation are correct only
in the small and local part of Universe and we cannot take them
as the first ones.
What can the first law of the Universe be?
All galaxies , all gravitation fields exist in Vacuum (T=0K).
Gravitational effects took place only in a small area of Infinite Vacuum.
It is impossible to use GRT to the Universe as a whole.
Vacuum is “ The first law of the Universe.”
The Physics is first of all Vacuum.
Without Eternal and Infinite Vacuum Physics makes no sense.
=== .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.
http://www.worldnpa.org/php2/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Display&id=1372
================== . .
#
Comment:
Socratus... the irony being, of course,
that there is no such thing as an absolute frame of reference.
/ dkt80 /
?????????????????
=========== .

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#32496 - 11/02/09 06:50 AM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Revlgking]
eccles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 149
Quote:
I do not have faith in a god, I wallow in GOD


The "faith" is involved in use of the word "in" !

There used to be an advertising slogan which read "Get the strength of our Insurance Company around you".

In your rejection of "external gods" you are revising the tale of the Emporer's New Clothes by pointing out that the only "suit" anyone can "trust" is their "birthday suit". Your "faith" consists in continuing to think in terms of "suit" which implies "organization".

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#32500 - 11/02/09 04:59 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: eccles]
Samantha Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 2
Dear Mr.Socratus,

YOU ARE STUPID! God cannot be athesist.Punch you in the face!.

Good day.

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#32501 - 11/02/09 04:59 PM Re: Where and Who is God ? [Re: Samantha]
Samantha Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 2
By the way it's my birthday. So i win. smile

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