Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Not-Quite-Science Forum Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including,

I would hesitate even to try to post another's thoughts.

Could there be a slight lack of originality creeping in here, TT?
One might have expected something better of you.

Would you hesitate to make a guess, as to what another might be thinking?
You asked:What made you ask if I took a specific direction with confidence?
What makes you think I gave the answer much thought?

Well there you go. If someone has expectations there are bound to be judgments that follow any action that does not meet those projected ideals.

Kinda like the projections of What God represents in the ideal desire, or definitions of what is good and for who..., and whether something has a place or order within the created universe.

It's easy to condemn the Universe of ones own making, especially when the unconscious projection of interpretation is put upon the subjective point of reference as it is held in the individuals perspective of worth, as it is measured against the imagined ideal.

I will surely take note of the high standards you hold me to.

Would you consider relevance to be of any particular importance?



What makes you think I imputed any degree or depth of thought to your response?



Are you referring to some judgemental trait of your own, or making an assumption that because you think there “are bound to be judgements” your perception is some sort of universal “truth”?

Do expectations necessarily equate to ideals?

Interesting that you bring God into the discussion at this point. Who would you have define what is good and for whom?




Enlightening assumption there! A simple comparative carries an implication of “high standards” only if that to which it is being compared is acknowledged to be sufficiently elevated in itself. In spite of your assumptions, value judgements of that nature tend to be peculiar to those who need, for their own personal reasons, to strike comparisons at an individual level.

How would you define relevance? If you believe that all things and people are intimately linked together, like the cells in a body, then there are no random actions, thoughts or feelings.

It was the standards thing that you mentioned, regarding overconfidence, originality and expectations...
Perceptions are perceptions. Everything is imbued with consciousness, even a cell has the ability to perceive another cell and what it experiences. Universal truth exceeds the individuality of personalities and singular idealism created thru separation of the ego.
There are judgments that come from innocence, experience, wisdom, stress, anger, self awareness, belief... etc.
From the KJV of the bible:
John 5:
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son
-----------
Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Psychologically speaking we can put this in relative terms as well as spiritual terms.
Every Child is influenced by their parents. The first words, thoughts, beliefs in reality inclusive of fear, superstition etc. All of our thoughts about what the world is, and how we begin to analyze what the world should accept and reject, in the idealisms or policies created from our first acceptance in thought of what is real, right and wrong.

History shows us that from the very beginning humanity has sought out a universal mind that can rise above the petty differences that exist in the separation of mans idealistic ego. No man who stands alone can accomplish what a group of dedicated individuals can, when creating something.., whether it is for the good of all or the destruction of all.

John Donne once said: "No man is an Island". We are a species of men/women who are linked in our expanding evolution of awareness and understanding.
Any one man who sets himself apart from the whole and pretends to hold the ideal philosophical perspective cannot imagine the extent of what humanity can achieve in its ultimate goals or what man might aspire to.

The story of Jesus the Christ was an example of mental power and wisdom as was the Buddha and every other ascended sage written down in the scriptures of religious texts throughout history.

If you would imagine a tree of life, religion idolizes its own branch on the tree. It might accept the idea of other branches but all religions water their branch and none water the root of the tree itself.

Communion of the ego with the root, is thru the filters of the individual branch.

No matter how wise and accommodating one becomes when filtering thoughts thru the branch of individual belief, it does not encompass the unbounded universal mind. All thoughts and ideas of universality are going to be altered by the colors of the branch. Just like wearing rose colored glasses or any color of glasses.
Clear perception of the source of all things when filtered thru the changing beliefs of the ego are going to be limited.

Since this thread is about religion or the philosophy which inspires religion there should be some reference to Universal truth and its reflections in relative truth.

When Jesus or Buddha or any sage spoke of union with Universal Mind.. "I and my Father are One" "What the Father witnesses in me I witness in the Father" kinda thing. It was in reference to having the ego as the servant rather than the master and the ability to stand outside of individuality without abandoning it.

One foot in one world (the relative) and one in the absolute (Universal mind).

Good question. Where does the mind sit when it idealizes the reality of things and projects its experiences that are filtered thru those ideals?
Is the mind sitting in its own branch or is it settled in the root or the tree of life?

If God/Consciousness/Universal mind, has judgement but does not judge man, then what judgment of man does man have when in union with universal mind?

Relatively speaking each individual prescribes his or her own medicine. However in turn, the individual would like to prescribe his or her own prescription for life onto every other individual. What each person needs is good for that person, but what one needs may also be something that does not benefit another.

Which inspires the question: Is there anything that is good for all?
The answer is yes, but it cannot be found thru individual idealisms or contained in any belief, religion or ministry.

The philosophy of spirituality is that there is only one reality. How one gets to know that will be unique to the individual and so there is no prescribed relative path that is deal for all of humanity since all are in different stages of comprehensive growth. You can't hand a three year old a college physics book unless that child has an understanding of the principles within the text.
However, since the universal reality can be seen, felt, heard, tasted, experienced. All of humanity has within them the faculties to become self aware.

The psychology of humanity is that it spreads its awareness in all directions rather than taking the awareness and focusing it on the one.
Because the senses are tuned to the dualistic nature of projection, following the 100,000 thoughts that the relative mind thinks every day. The mind rarely settles into the present moment of stillness that all thoughts come from and return to. The absolute.

When the ego is attuned to the chatter of thought, it ignores the stillness of potential.
When the mind is stilled, the subtle senses expand upon the subtle absolute and all that is, is revealed.

Exactly
When you made the comment:

The thought of origin or originality was introduced, as well as expectations.

What you focus on grows

IF from the universal mind all things emanate from the source and then return to the source, all that comes and goes is imbued with that which is the source. It has energy, direction, and it has purpose. Nothing is random and without that which inspires or creates it.

How one idolizes themselves or what they perceive as real is going to be relative to where the mind is situated.

If it sits in the bibliography of the past constructs of reality that are filtered thru the glasses that are the branch of the idealized Tree of life. Then no other branch is known (because the mind stays in the neighborhood of ones self identification), and the root of the tree is foreign to the mind because all of the attention has gone outward thru the senses riding the thoughts of belief.

Every thought feeling and action. Every desire and intention of will is leaving the foundation of reality that the individual has idealized as real, ignoring the infinite potential that is flowing thru all of humanity and thru all dimensional timelines of past future and present.
That multidimensional potential that is inclusive of all moments outside of time and space and inclusive of all moments is what Tolle called the NOW.

Physics is beginning to substantiate the reality of the NOW as being always now. Where there is really no distance between past present and future other than the filters of cognitive functioning of the outward sense oriented (relatively based) mind.

Any Idea of willing ones self to be good is irrelevant if they are ignorant of the fact that all that they are creating is unique and purposeful for them already. The inability to understand or grasp the reality that choices are being made at levels of the mind that are unknown to the ego only reveal that free will can be blinded by levels of conscious awareness.
There are things the senses can perceive that are not normally accepted or trained to do.
Intuitive cognitive functioning mentioned in religion and spiritual philosophy as well as some psychological studies had atrophied in humanity and is only now beginning to reawaken. The evolution of the species is not just scientifically validated but is being individually validated thru the spiritual experience of witnessing ones own growth and understanding of life and the awareness of who or what we are.


"Nothing is what the inside of your head looks like to your eyes, yet what resides inside your head is watching everything" -Alan Watts-

I agree with Tolle and those who say: The NOW--like G~O~D--is always within and around us.

However, in my opinion: The NOW is not just a point that is fixed in time; it is one that flows like the winds and the waves.

I doubt Tolle ever drew a line of separation with the NOW other than to describe the ego and what it does when it stands separate from the NOW.
As much as you try to paste your own ideas of reality upon the expanded experiences of others, it never makes the same impact.
You remind me of someone who might read a medical journal and pretend to have a conversation about medicine with a seasoned surgeon. The pretense of assumption just doesn't have the impact that knowledge and experience has with the subject at hand.
Especially when you imagine you are equal to others who have greater experience and understanding.

Well everyone has an opinion, and many do have thoughts about those things they have no experience of.
Isn't that a hoot. Like a child having an opinion of adulthood without having yet become an adult. What is created is the illusion of objectivity from the subjective mind.

Religious preachers have a history of dictating what God is and what God wants and desires without ever having the experience of God outside of the three known states of consciousness.

Anyway the NOW is neither movement or stillness. All perceptions of movement within the now are reflections of consciousness in activity.

Relative states of consciousness have their own subjective and objective experiences that define the differences that make the relative states of consciousness. Like sleeping dreaming and waking states.
The expanded states that exist above and beyond the known three result in experiences that are usually foreign to the awareness of human belief and opinion.
Belief and opinion are like colored glasses that alter perception. Usually they dull the subtle senses and obscure the nature of consciousness.

Perhaps you could just will the world around you to accept your beliefs as you accept them.

Anyone, interested in learning about the art of META-TATION--a powerful and self-healing kind of meditation?

I found one which I use often, in the book, The Power Of NOW, by Echart Tolle--pages 124 to 126. Here is the basic first step: Flood your body with consciousness.

HERE ARE A FEW QUOTES
http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/840520-the-power-of-now-a-guide-to-spiritual-enlightenment

Scientists at NASA built a gun specifically to launch standard 4 pound dead chickens at the windshields of airliners, military jets and the space shuttle, all traveling at maximum velocity. The idea is to simulate the frequent incidents of collisions with airborne fowl to test the strength of the windshields.

British engineers heard about the gun and were eager to test it on the windshields of their new high speed trains. Arrangements were made, and a gun was sent to the British engineers.

When the gun was fired, the engineers stood shocked as the chicken hurled out of the barrel, crashed into the shatterproof shield, smashed it to smithereens, blasted through the control console, snapped the engineer's back-rest in two, and embedded itself in the back wall of the cabin, like an arrow shot from a bow.

The horrified Brits sent NASA the disastrous results of the experiment, along with the designs of the windshield and begged the U.S. scientists for suggestions.

NASA responded with a one-line memo --

"Defrost the chicken."

LOL I'm not sure how this fits with the general topic of this thread, but it is hilarious. Even contact from live birds can be pretty spectacular. I recall seeing a car whose windshield had been impacted by a large wild turkey. It hit on the passenger side, and fully half the windshield was completely shattered into pieces lest than two inches across. The only thing holding it together was the laminate between the two sheets of tempered glass. It was most impressive.

Not a large percentage of the discussions on this thread have much to do with the topic of Religion and the philosophy of religion. Seems to be mostly about personal beliefs and how to draw attention to those beliefs.

But speaking of birds and windshields:
Had a turkey destroy a windshield in a car of mine also, and I still have a dent in the hood of my car from the Owl that committed suicide by diving into it while I was driving down the highway.
I also hit a deer on the highway late at night when I was going about 90 mph on the freeway. That deer was wearing the front license plate when it launched from the impact..

Don't know if there is such a thing as an animal impact proof windshield.

A Rose, did you happen to notice who was driving the car that hit the turkey? Could it have been another turkey?
======================
BTW, A Rose: This thread--the one way back, which D.A. Morgan (DAM) campaigned be sent to a galaxie far, far away--now has well over 5 Million hits. BTW, To which galaxie was DAM sent? I have a friend in mind, who we could send to keep him company, eh?

NOW, I propose a new thread, minus ad hominems, that I hope will stay on topic--philosophy of religion and what I call the spirituanity in all the great religions. Here is the thread:

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=45799#Post45799

I hit a young deer once in a little Mazda pickup. It committed suicide on my front bumper. We turned around and got it out of the road, then went home and contacted the Sheriff's office for a salvage permit. It was the answer to my prayers of what we were going to eat for the next few weeks, my cash being utterly exhausted and a teenage boy to feed. It damaged the hood a bit where its skull impacted the front of the vehicle, killing it instantly. We had venison for Thanksgiving that year, although I do not recommend getting one's meat in that manner, it is hard on vehicles. If anyone ever invents a truly animal proof windshield, I would be a customer.

No, Rev, the driver was a very distraught young female who had to pilot that car with the smashed windshield some 20 miles or so down lightly traveled roads to get to the store where she stopped to phone home. Good thing for her that the turkey was considerate enough to only take out one half of the windshield.

As Paul Harvey, the broadcaster, used to say: "Now we know: The rest of the story!" Thanks! However, I feel for the distraught young driver.

A ROSE, in response to me you say: BTW, Rose, I keep in mind that personal stories like yours and the one you tell about the other "very distraught" driver have a lot to do with the "Philosophy of Religions ..." as I understand it. After all, good religion is all about life as it is and how we live it.

With this "mother thread"--the one with all those hits (well over 5 million)--in mind, I agree that it is OK for any of us to set up sub threads to our liking. In such we are free to write about things which are important to us. It was with this in mind that I set up the thread on "Soma-Psyche-Pneuma"--Body, Mind, Spirit..." and how we ought to deal with the problems of good and evil.

Hypnotism, the placebo effect and faith healing
For example, I am thinking about having a thread on: Hypnotism, the placebo effect and faith healing. From personal experience, I know that it can stimulate the immune system and use it to promote healing.

BTW, it is my understanding that medical science no longer thinks that hypnotism is quackery.

RECENTLY, A POSTER-- AT WONDERCAFE.CA --posted a link to this thread. Let us use it as a "flash back" and go on from there: And over half a decade later, the dialogue continues.

BTW, I always ask Biblical literalists/creationists: Why is your "god" so silent, so shy and so out of touch with life today?

Surely, any god who wrote, or inspired the writing of the 66 documents Christians call "the Bible" (the book) must be aware of the Internet and its power. How come "he-God" has avoided this powerful tool?

I write as one who values all the great minds of our past, especially those who have had the courage to use their brains to do more than just survive. Intuitively, it seems, they want to improve things and to add to the storehouse of human knowledge. GOD-like for them!

THE FIVE WWWWW'S
Also, they have had the courage to ask questions like:
1.Who am I?
2.And who are you?
3.Now what, together, do we do next?
4.When do we do it?
5.Where is the best place to do it?
6.And Why is it important and necessary?

This is the kind of topic which stimulates us--I know it stimulates me--to ask all kind of questions.

To start with now, here is just a few:

1. What is the history behind what we call the the arts, the religions and the sciences?

2. Check out prehistoric art 3. Check out: It is probably true that the first clergy (witch doctors, shamans, etc.), scientists and artists were one and the same. Specialization came much later.

Because we clergy tend to be arrogant individuals, it was as clergy that they spoke with an air of authority. They claimed that the gift of sacred knowledge and wisdom that they had, was revealed to them from a sacred and divine source. Regardless of this, theologically speaking, the first religionists were probably all polytheists. Thus they credited the gods for giving them their good fortune. Later, when monotheism eventually evolved, monotheists (theists, for short) gave the credit to the One True God.

In late prehistoric times, the ones with this gift were no doubt the first to create the art of writing. No doubt, also, they used this knowledge to impress and cultivate the friendship of the chief, the head of the family, of the kin (hence our word king), the tribe, the community, whatever.

It was obvious that the physically powerful hunters/warriors, especially their leaders, were the primary servants favoured by the king. After all, it was from them that the king got most of his power and wealth. No wonder that the clergy coveted being, like them, members of the king's inner circle. In this circle, they had a chance to be rewarded and get a share of the power the wealth available.

But, to be fair: Not all the leaders, including the clergy, were greedy for power and wealth. Some did want justice for the commoners, especially for the poor and needy--men women and children.

THEOS--THE SKY GOD
Thinking of people with valuable wisdom and knowledge reminds me of the familiar story that is part of the Christmas story. It is about the VISITORS FROM THE EAST--The Magi, the Three Wise Men, which is told only in Matthew 2.

Those ancient astrologers, who were polytheists, looked to the sky as the place of the gods.

I assume the Magi were Monotheists, or theists. Theists put all the gods together and speak of THEOS (The Sky GOD)--the One and Only True God. Some linguists suggest that our definite article 'the' comes from the same root. So do words like theatre, theory, theorem, thesis, therapy and theology. Makes sense.

Whether gods many, or as The One, the ancients looked for practical guidance in the present. THEOS-GOD helped travellers, by land and sea, to find their way. Farmers got help about the seasons and the best times to plant crops. Astrologers began to chart the constellations.

Thus they became the first astrologers. Later, many became astronomers.

Any astronomers reading this thread?

AS GOLDEN-RULE KEEPING PNEUMAN BEINGS, LET US HELP EACH OTHER HAVE A
HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Happy New Year, everyone! May the New Year see us grow in truth and understanding, and help us to respect and tolerate those who disagree with us.

We're working on it, Rose!

Thanks Bill!

THIS THREAD NOW HAS OVER 5,600,000 HITS

Posters, thanks. Now I ask you to take a look at the thread on SOMA, PSYCHE & PNEUMA--Body, Mind and Spirit, which is also getting quite number of hits.

For philosophy, yours and ours, on the components of reality join us there, OK?