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#45467 09/17/12 08:36 AM
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I would like to say a goodbye to Bill S, Bill Gill, Redenwur, Rev K, Ellis, Paul and probably quite a few I have missed .... Socratus not so much :-)

I wish you all well and hope you find what you are looking for in around and through science and science discussion.

There are very very few things that would ever offend me but as a member of Amnesty International "holocaust denial" or other genocides would be one of the very few.

The fact the moderators will not act on that thread is a disgrace and brings the whole site into disgrace.

I find it farcical that you can get a warning for calling someone "mentally retarded" yet "holocaust denial" is fine is beyond belief or anything I can stomach.

I thought I was pushing the limit in some deliberate heated exchanges with Paul over GOD and trolling but I was careful not to target any specific religion or version of GOD, seems my caution was probably not needed which is also wrong if it ever occured on the site.

Well I have said all that needs to be said ... to those of the faith godspeed and to those not Bon Voyage.


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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Orac #45470 09/17/12 12:37 PM
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I survived WW2, just; our house having been hit by an incendiary when I was two. My father didn’t survive. However, when I look at the undeniable horrors of that time, I consider myself one of the fortunate ones.

Out of respect for those who suffered immeasurably more than I did, I feel I too must take a stand on this issue. The suggestion that this can be considered as a scientific topic because numbers are involved is ludicrous.

I would seek to deny no one the right to question historical events, and accept that possibly there are sites on which this discussion would be appropriate. I do not believe that SAGG is such a site.

I would be sad to leave SAGG, I have enjoyed the discussion and the company, but, like Orac, I do not intend continuing to post while the holocaust denial thread remains on this forum.

If that means goodbye, so be it.


There never was nothing.
Orac #45471 09/17/12 01:53 PM
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So I take it the uproar is in regards to some idea that the posted information inspired a conclusion that posting information means whoever posts it, is supporting the illusion that the events didn't happen? Maybe even if the forum is open to support free posting of information regarding this thought, that it also supports the idea?

Reminds me of a case where an aryan extremist might want to leave a place because a black person was present.

So is Fat Freddy trying to promote the idea of the Holocaust being a non-issue? Or are there other reasons for the personal and emotional reactions?


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle


So is Fat Freddy trying to promote the idea of the Holocaust being a non-issue? Or is there other reasons for the reaction of a personal nature?


FF keeps posting new stuff that questions what is unquestionable. Any body who posts asking if the undeniable is false, and keeps on doing it, is going to be tarred with the same brush as the deniers. For people who deny the Holocaust that makes them pretty much scumbags, and people are known by the company they keep. FF doesn't seem to take that to heart, so he seems to be another scumbag.

As far as what FF has posted is concerned it is not science in any shape or form, not even NQS. Therefore it has no place on a science forum. The thread should have been pulled immediately when it was first started.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
Bill #45475 09/17/12 02:32 PM
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I don't see it as an issue.

IF you look at the way the Muslims have taken their opinion of someone else's opinion of Muhammad into violence, it shows us how people don't even want to take responsibility of their own thoughts and emotions. They would rather react violently and without wisdom or intelligence and pretend to believe that it is being caused by something outside of themselves.

Perpetuating this idea only gives liberties to those who wish to act irrationally and make excuses by pointing the finger at others for their choices.

A person can always ignore the post and and it will die a natural death.

Look at the Reverends topic on religions. 4 million hits and very few of those 4 million need to react or respond. They can intelligently ignore the topic and pass thru, without becoming emotionally disturbed.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Orac #45479 09/18/12 09:00 AM
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The posts, having nothing remotely to do with science, have been removed.

Orac #45480 09/18/12 01:29 PM
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Thanks, Kate. As I said in my earlier post, I have no quarrel with those who question history; I started doing it myself at a very tender age when I first began to think about the stories of the Crusades.
SAGG tends very easily to wander off the scientific track, often with entertaining results; I accept my share of the blame for that. Perhaps it’s a good thing to start a topic with science, though.
I hope Orac will come back now. With Kallog and Bryan seemingly long gone, we need someone who is willing to pick a stick up by the hot end. smile


There never was nothing.
Orac #45481 09/18/12 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Well I have said all that needs to be said ...

orac
the things that you post are not focused on science they are
focused on stirring up emotional responces.

this goodbye post of yours does not belong in the physics forum...
you dont deserve such a grand farewell.

it should be moved to the not quite science forum as that would reflect the major percentage of content of what you have posted
in the SAGG forums.

frankly , I truly believe that this forum is on its last leg
because of people such as yourself.

nobody dares to start a thread on any topic because they dont want the ridicule and harassment that you and others on this
forum tend to freely dish out.

people start discussions because they want to discuss a topic.
not because they want you and your cohorts to bash them and their
thoughts or ideas into the sand that you have your head stuck in.

that said.

good riddance.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Kate #45484 09/18/12 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kate
The posts, having nothing remotely to do with science, have been removed.

Sheesh. So much for perspectives in thought and reality. frown

True reactionary behavior exemplified as altruism. Who is righteous and just. Just like the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades... or even the preservation of the Aryan race thru the extermination of the invasive thought and the species that might endanger rigid thinking.

If science is going to be exemplified as defining human thought and emotion as being canned and preserved into a particular form, then there ain't gonna be much room for evolution of the species as long as freedom of thought and speech is continually met with censorship and strangulation.

Change the outside so that whatever is inside ones self can be preserved, and the emotional baggage protected with all superstitions held intact.

The "Burn the witch" mentality!!! sick


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




Bill S. #45485 09/18/12 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
we need someone who is willing to pick a stick up by the hot end. smile


Because that makes sense as the smart thing to do, or the scientific approach?


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Quote:
The "Burn the witch" mentality!!!


I didn't read the post , I haven't been concerning myself with the
forum in a few days.

but , let me say this.

I think your right TT , the thread should have remained , and can be copied from a database backup then reposted.

what FF wrote about is a issue concerning human rights and the evils that are committed in the world because of hate.

the people who think that the holocaust did not occur have their reasons and views as to why they think that.

it is an issue that needs to be addressed , but not in this science forum.

because this science forum does not have a human rights forum.
it also does not have a religion forum , or a political forum , or a alternative energy forum.

I cannot understand why SAGG chooses to avoid these subjects as
they are popular topics on the internet that interest people.

this web site pays for itself through advertisement such as the
advertisement found below this post.

and those advertisements are generated by google from the content
of key words that the search engines find within in the post.

a few popular key word's on the internet today is

Barack Obama
and
Mitt Romney

lets see if that generates a campaign advertisement below.

BTW , it will probably look like harassment to Fat Freddy
because his thread was deleted and all the other non science threads that are in the various forum's are still there.

and because of that the forum will probably lose an active poster who does not engage in wolf pack harassment tactics.


hitler simply burned the books



then he burned the Jews



least we forget , how can we forget?

if we forget , we can expect it to happen again.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
paul #45487 09/18/12 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: paul
....this science forum does not have a human rights forum.
it also does not have a religion forum , or a political forum , or a alternative energy forum.
Not per se.. but it does have a nqs forum where all judgments regarding reality and belief that is not boxed into scientific format is tolerated.

Moderators on the other hand don't necessarily approach their function with scientific objectivity, nor does a scientist approach science without their beliefs and emotional baggage.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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NQS , not quite science.

the name of the forum troubles me.

it should be called not science !

leave the quite out.

there would be no reason for any imaginable topic to be deleted
if it were called (not science).

that way no one should be offended by any religious topics.
or any other topic for that matter.

of course there would have to be some restriction's.
but the Terms Of Use policy should cover the restrictions.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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Quote:
Moderators on the other hand don't necessarily approach their function with scientific objectivity, nor does a scientist approach science without their beliefs and emotional baggage.


TT, your posts suggest that you are a person who values logic. So let's look at the logic of that statement. We might learn from it.

Moderators don't necessarily approach their function with scientific objectivity.

Scientists don't necessarily approach their function with scientific objectivity.

Ergo: moderators approach their function as scientists approach their function.

What more could one ask for on a science forum.

I am sure the Mods will appreciate these supportive words of yours at a time when they must feel they are "damned if they do and damned if they don't".


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Quote:
Because that makes sense as the smart thing to do, or the scientific approach?


Perhaps because it provides a measure of amusement to those to whom “God has given”, as Dame Edna put it, “the Gift of the ability to laugh at the misfortunes of others”.

Ellis might supply the Australian accent, if asked nicely.


There never was nothing.
paul #45492 09/18/12 07:07 PM
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Quote:
frankly , I truly believe that this forum is on its last leg because of people such as yourself.


If you really believe that, Paul, why do you so often rise to the bait? Why not just ignore him?


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Quote:
The "Burn the witch" mentality!!!


I think I'm the only one who has been the subject of a call for burning on SAGG! The cry of "Burn Bill S still rings in my ears. frown


There never was nothing.
Bill S. #45500 09/18/12 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
...I hope Orac will come back now. With Kallog and Bryan seemingly long gone, we need someone who is willing to pick a stick up by the hot end. smile


Agreed. Hopefully, now that the thread is deleted; Orac will reconsider.

I was looking forward to getting his input on BECs and Royce Haynes' take on the BB. frown


Good atmosphere and good conversation...that's the best.
Bill S. #45501 09/18/12 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.

I am sure the Mods will appreciate these supportive words of yours at a time when they must feel they are "damned if they do and damned if they don't".

No doubt, and this might also raise the question of whether the moderator took offense to the post that was deleted or simply obliged the whining that took place and was directed to their court.
If it had been me that was moderating this particular blip in the matrix, I would appreciate an opinion, but not necessarily join one in their stress and emotional baggage.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Quote:
whether the moderator took offense to the post that was deleted or simply obliged the whining


Why would you need to assume that either was the case, unless making such an asumption serves some need of your own?

I thought Kate's reason was clearly expressed, and perfectly justified.


There never was nothing.
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