Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 210 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
welcome to the newly developing glaciation period.
by paul
10/24/19 03:23 PM
Potatoes on Mars
by paul
10/24/19 02:55 PM
Fishing , baiting the hook.
by paul
10/24/19 02:43 PM
F=mv ... mv=F
by paul
10/24/19 02:37 PM
Do we have a moderator?
by paul
10/23/19 12:30 AM
Is there anybody out there?
by paul
10/23/19 12:22 AM
Top Posters (30 Days)
paul 13
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#44568 - 08/03/12 11:06 AM Buckyballs Prolong Life?
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

A team was studying the long-term toxicology of C60
(fullerene, "buckyballs") by giving it to rats as a solution in olive oil. The control groups were water and olive oil without C60. The compound has already been shown to have no noticeable short-term toxic effects, so they probably didn't expect anything dramatic in the lower-dose long-term mode.

Wrong.
What they found was that the fullerene/olive oil group had their life spans extended by some 90%, which would make this mixture perhaps the most efficacious life-extended treatment ever seen in a rodent model. This is a very odd and a very interesting result.

The most likely mechanism for the life-extension effects is through oxidative stress and free radical scavenging.
There have been several reports of C60 as an antioxidant, and other reports that hydrated C60 does the opposite.
In this study, even at very low doses, C60 appears to protect rodents against carbon tetrachloride-induced liver damage, for example, which is known to involve a radical process. Significantly, it does so while showing protection against glutathione depletion, which also suggests that it's directly scavenging reactive intermediates.

The Author,
. Derek Lowe, (derekb.lowe@gmail.com) an Arkansan by birth, got his BA from Hendrix College and his PhD in organic chemistry from Duke.

****My thoughts
Buckyballs prolong life? Really? I thought Buckyballs were first discovered in Candle smoke? Urrgh.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
.
#44569 - 08/03/12 02:34 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Wonderful! Let me see, I'll need some candles and some olive oil to start making my own magical life extending elixir. Then I need to get some money to make a TV infomercial and I can get rich.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44573 - 08/04/12 01:59 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
make a TV infomercial and I can get rich.


for awhile maybe , at least until the FDA gets wind of it.
especially if it really works.

so 90% life extension in rats.

Oz has a underground water supply that causes livestock to
have a 100% longer life.

and olive oil has been used for thousands of years to treat illness , so why not?

maybe you could mix some of the olive oil and the OZ water
together and make even more !

it may even be the olive oil thats extending the rats lives.

just like silver has been used for thousands of years for treatment of illness you will probably find that you cant
advertise that it can be used to treat any illness.

because it cant be controlled by big pharma.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44577 - 08/04/12 04:34 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Until the next medical report in 10 years time that is builds up in the body over time causing cancer :-)

So steer away from this I have some perfectly good "snake oil" that does exactly the same thing and if you order now I will throw in some steak knives.

Not just that for a limited time if you place your order I will give you a second bottle of "snake oil" to share with a friend or love one.

So don't delay send mail-order or cheque to the address below.

Orac's "snake oil" life extender
C/O Make Orac Rich Company
Cayman island bank deposit number 10011
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44578 - 08/04/12 02:10 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
orac

have you heard that olive oil builds up in the body?

I know that silver hangs around in the body for 5 days
and if you take too much it can build up in the body
and cause your fingernails and skin to turn blue.

but as soon as you stop overdosing the silver your skin and nails return to their normal color.

I have never read that silver has any adverse effects on health.

but silver has been used and is being used to treat a wide range of medical conditions.

the fact is that silver is producing results where big pharma failed.

and as far as cancer is concerned if you dont allow cancer
a environment of grow in , it cant grow.

silver kills all virus / microbes !

and can be charged either positive or negative when needed to kill certain microbes.

silver is used to repair the mistakes of hospitals when
staff infections occur in hospitals.

silver is used to treat burn victims.
aids , tuberculosis , cancer , etc...

poking fun at people who use a proven method of treating their patients vs a proven method of slowly killing their patients might be fun or even funny to some or most.

for a hospital and a set of doctors to deny a paitent the ability to recieve treatment using proven methods because those methods are not standard practice is not fun or funny or even humane . to me it is murder.

if you have ever watched someone in a so called hospital slowly die because the errors that the hospital makes in its standard practices and the tricks they use to put that person on life support so that the hospital can make more money
then you wouldnt find any humor in people or the few brave doctors who have chosen to heal their patients vs allowing a so called hospital to murder their patients.

I say murder because that is what it is.

its not malpractice.

its murder.














_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44580 - 08/04/12 02:50 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul
silver kills all virus / microbes !

In that case you better get rid of any silver jewelry. We need a whole bunch of viruses and microbes to keep us alive and healthy. Anything that indiscriminately kills microbes must be used with caution, so that it doesn't damage our personal ecosystems.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44582 - 08/04/12 03:18 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
dont worry about us Bill , we already have that covered.

pro-biotics replace the murdered good microbes but not the
murdering bad microbes.

billions of them in a single pill.

or you can just eat yogurt !

wearing silver jewerly is a good thing Bill , you have heard the saying
" born with a silver spoon in their mouth "
this comes from the antibiotic effects of silver , the rich who used silver eating utensils were less affected by plagues and silver spoons were placed / kept in the mouths of rich peoples babies.



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44586 - 08/04/12 04:59 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul
this comes from the antibiotic effects of silver , the rich who used silver eating utensils were less affected by plagues and silver spoons were placed / kept in the mouths of rich peoples babies.


Do you have a reliable source for that? I had always understood/assumed that it had to do with the fact that rich peoples children were fed with a silver spoon just because they were rich. I was not aware that rich people were particularly exempt from plagues. Of course they might have been better able to keep from getting plagues because they could afford to be cleaner, and could keep from associating with the poor people who lived in more crowded and unsanitary conditions.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44588 - 08/05/12 01:44 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Silver is a powerful, natural antibiotic that has been used for thousand of years, with no harmful side effects ever having being observed. To prevent disease, ancient Greeks lined their eating and drinking vessels with silver, as did many cultures throughout the world [Encyclopedia Britannica, 1910]. Silverware became popular 1,900 years ago when Physicians advised their patients to only eat with silver if they wanted to stay healthy.

During the 14th century, about 25% of the people in Europe died from the bubonic plague. Those that used silver utensils had a much higher rate of survival than those who did not use silver. Wealthy parents even gave their children silver spoons to suck on to battle the plague. This lead to the expression, “Born with a silver spoon in your mouth”.


http://www.medicinebeeherbals.com/article-colloidal-silver.php

you might not think that the above is a credible source

but the credible sources you think are credible are not credible to me.

---------------------- MY REASONING ----------------------

because the FDA prevents any such credibility!
therefore in my opinion there are no credible sources for any medicine or medical procedure.

if the FDA has to force the witholding of information from
the public concerning colodial silver then any information that
is allowed by the FDA concerning any other medication
to be displayed to the public is tainted and worthless.

----------------------------------------------------------------

so , its a matter of what works isnt it.

slow death or recovery.

also you wont find any so called credible sources anymore
when it comes to colodial silver because the FDA has made it illegal to claim that it will cure any illness.

your tax dollars at work.

Quote:
At one time, the FDA stated that because Colloidal Silver was a pre-1938 drug [by fifty years], it could continue to be marketed in the same manner as before 1938. However, they reversed this stance in a subsequent statement. Because of the latest FDA ruling, one can discuss Colloidal Silver’s ability to kill Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Candida, and 650 other microbes, but one cannot make any claims that it will cure any of the diseases these organisms cause, such as strep throat, pneumonia, ringworm, etc. Regardless of what diseases Colloidal Silver cured, or what research was done prior to 1938, claims about colloidal silver’s efficacy against diseases cannot be made today without going through a long, expensive FDA drug approval process. Meanwhile, more organisms became resistant to today’s antibiotics.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44591 - 08/05/12 06:48 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Silver spoons were used by the wealthy because they are pretty and the wealthy had minions who could keep them clean-- and also because there was a tradition that silver cutlery (in effect spoons as forks were not yet popular), turned black in the presence of poison.

Since silver has a propensity to turn black at the drop of a hat let alone poison is not news to anyone who has had to polish silver, so probably poison may have inadvertently been detected. However the silver tarnishes if a silver spoon is used to eat a boiled egg!

As for the 'silver spoon in the mouth' I think Bill explained that.

In plagues everyone was felled, but the wealthy used to escape to their country houses when the plague season happened, possibly taking their spoons with them, but I don't think there s evidence that they thought that the cutlery would protect them from the illness.

Top
#44592 - 08/05/12 11:42 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Ellis]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis
................................>

Since silver has a propensity to turn black at the drop of a hat let alone poison is not news to anyone who has had to polish silver, so probably poison may have inadvertently been detected. However the silver tarnishes if a silver spoon is used to eat a boiled egg!

As for the 'silver spoon in the mouth' I think Bill explained that.

In plagues everyone was felled, but the wealthy used to escape to their country houses when the plague season happened, possibly taking their spoons with them, but I don't think there s evidence that they thought that the cutlery would protect them from the illness.



[Quote=Mike Kremer]

People escaped the plague in London , either because they had natural immunity, or because they changed their water supply (drinking well).
There is a village well, in the middle of Hampstead Heath London(still there today)...called "The Vale of Health" Nobody caught the Plague drinking from its waters.

Colloidal Silver as Paul states ...kills all kinds of microbes and germs.
Go to your Pharmacy and you can buy Colloidal silver Elastoplasters, or fine silver woven bandages.

They are as good as leeches for killing Staph: eruptions and other infection germs on wounds.

No time right now ...but I believe you can make your own Colloidal Silver somewhere on the WWW.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#44593 - 08/05/12 03:55 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Ellis]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
As for the 'silver spoon in the mouth' I think Bill explained that.


No ! I explained that.

people used silver because of its health benefits.

it would be pretty stupid to use silver only because its
shiny after you polish it.

and think of the toxic polish itself and the work required to
keep silver sparkly and shiny.

and there was always gold that required no polishing.

if the rich wanted to show off their fortunes then gold
spoons would have been the better choice.

they used silver spoons because of the antibacterial benefits that gold does not have.

people have even used copper for its health benefits.
copper has antibacterial benefits like silver does.
why do you think they dont use copper pipes in houses anymore
they did away with copper pipes and replaced copper with less healthy plastic pipe.



it is also stupid to use copper just because it is shiny after you polish it.

people use copper utensils because of its antibacterial benefits.

I suppose that nasa and the ussr use silver water pipes in their space vehicles so they can polish them all the time and have something to do while they are up there , and to have nice sparkly shiny water pipes to look at.


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44594 - 08/05/12 04:27 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
copper is a antibacterial touch material , water held in copper vessels ( water pipes ) does not gather slime like it does in plastic pipes.

Quote:
Copper and its alloys (brasses, bronzes, cupronickel, copper-nickel-zinc, and others) are natural antimicrobial materials. Ancient civilizations exploited the antimicrobial properties of copper long before the concept of microbes became understood in the nineteenth century.[1][2] In addition to several copper medicinal preparations, it was also observed centuries ago that water contained in copper vessels or transported in copper conveyance systems was of better quality (i.e., no or little visible slime formation) than water contained or transported in other materials.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_copper
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44595 - 08/05/12 04:44 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Thanks Paul.
I did not realise that Copper had anti-bacterial properties.
Do you know if they are as good as Copper?
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#44596 - 08/05/12 07:59 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul
it would be pretty stupid to use silver only because its
shiny after you polish it.

And it would be pretty stupid to wear designer clothing just because it is fancy.

The art of "if you've got it, flaunt it" didn't start recently, it has been around forever.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44598 - 08/06/12 07:15 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
There is possibly a huge drawback of too much copper in the body

=> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%E2%80%99s_disease

"Elevated free copper levels exist in Alzheimer’s disease.[1] Copper and Zinc are known to bind to amyloid beta proteins in Alzheimer's disease.[17] This bound form is thought to mediate the production of reactive oxygen species in the brain.[18]"


So whilst you may be having improved anti-bacterial effects you may not be able to remember anything :=)


I always love the argument from the alternative health crackpots that it's an old remedy that did them no harm ... they seem to forget the average life expectancy has gone up from under 40 in 1850 to over 70 now so they would not have lived long enough for us to know :-)


Edited by Orac (08/06/12 08:15 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44599 - 08/06/12 02:08 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
pretty stupid to wear designer clothing just because it is fancy.


apples and oranges there Bill.

were not ( currently ) discussing clothing , were discussing the benefits of using antibacterial spoons and such.

not sure why you chose clothing as a vector either.


Top
#44600 - 08/06/12 02:33 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Do you know if they are as good


as silver?

I wouldnt experiment with any type of coloidial copper
if thats what you mean.

unless you have the proper equipment and knowledge to do so.

copper will form a greenish blue tarnish like silvers black
colored tarnish over time as you know because of oxidation.

the copper pipes are beginning to make a comeback in new homes because of the antibacterial health benefits and the availability of lead free solder used to join the pipes.

still even in a new home the water distribution pipes leading to the new home will have gobs of free bacteria to drink unless you have a home distillery to cleanse the free bacteria from the water supply.

If you run the water long enough in a copper pipe system then the copper may not completely cleanse the slime.

so it would be cheaper to use a small home distillery for your drinking water that removes the slime.

but you would still be bathing in the slime and washing your
clothes in the slime.

I imagine that in the UK you guys have some really old water pipes in use , so some of them might be the old leaded water pipes , you might want to check.

I have seen actual lead pipes that formed a 3-4 ft connection between two service pipes in the 70's.

then it was burried!

I wonder if its still in use.

It was used because of movement issues of the ground to maintain a connection.






_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44601 - 08/06/12 02:56 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul

apples and oranges there Bill.

were not ( currently ) discussing clothing , were discussing the benefits of using antibacterial spoons and such.

not sure why you chose clothing as a vector either.


What I was trying to point out is that if you don't have any good documentation from the time to indicate that they really did use silver to protect themselves then there could be other explanations, such as conspicuous consumption. As I said above, "if you've got it, flaunt it" isn't a new concept. Designer clothing just came to mind as an example.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44602 - 08/06/12 03:04 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

the above shows the richest nation in the world with a lower
population to land mass ratio with all the smartest people and money in the world and the highest technology to be number 38 from the top.

so I suppose your right , LOL.

look at the list , Japan at the top.

followed by Hong Kong.

it looks like the ( old remedies are spreading )

unless asia is not known for old remedies that date back thousands of years.

surely its not technology that has caused the increase in
life expectancy of the world or the U.S. would be at the top.

not at 38th place.


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44603 - 08/06/12 03:16 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
if you don't have any good documentation from the time to indicate that they really did use silver to protect themselves


since your the one focusing on good documentation , prehaps you
can show some good documentation that shows that they didnt
use siver to protect themselves.

that should be an easy task for you as you must have read that somewhere in a ancient medical text or something according to your stance so dont withold the data , let us in on it.

I have showed some evidence , lets see your counter.

after all to a rich person the difference between silver
and gold was like the difference between a penny and a dollar back then.

so why did they choose to flaunt the penny vs the dollar.

surely they knew the value of gold , them being rich n all.

such a impressive spoon , it really shows off ones wealth.
and its always nice and shiny.

even after you eat with it.





I agree with myself , the gold spoon flaunts wealth much better.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44604 - 08/06/12 04:50 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I see that as usual you don't want to actually back up your statements with facts. I keep saying, you are the salesman, not me. The salesman is the one who needs to be able to show the facts.

As far as the price of gold and silver? As you say gold is much more expensive. So only the very rich could afford it in large enough quantities. The ones who were just rich had to make do with silver. Kind of like the difference between Calvin Klein and Haute Couture.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44606 - 08/07/12 02:36 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
I see that as usual you don't want to actually back up your statements with facts.


I havent seen anything to show your reason for doubting what Im saying , your the doubter not me.

I have shown references you have shown nothing.

unless you think that just because you doubt it that makes me wrong along with all the people throughout history who have used silver for its medicinal values.

Bill , its not asking too much.

your so sure that silver was not used by wealthy people for
its medicinal values you must have some sort of documentation you can share with the readers.

heres a science page on silvers medicinal value that you can add to the list.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2005/0910-killing_germs.htm

Quote:
DUARTE, Calif.--For more than 6,000 years, humans have used silver to fight germs, also known as microbes. Now, some hospitals are using a silver compound to reduce hospital infections.



Quote:
Humans have used silver to ward off disease since the ancient Egyptians; the Greeks used silver vessels for water to keep it fresh. It is still used by settlers in the Australian outback, who suspend silverware in their water tanks to keep spoilage at bay. Silver fell out of favor with the discovery of antibiotics, but interest in its germ-fighting properties has resurged with the rise of drug-resistant organisms and concern over possible epidemics that don't respond to conventional treatment.
RISK FACTORS: Silver is harmless if ingested in small amounts, but like most metals, large doses can be toxic, sometimes fatal. Among other effects, excess silver can be deposited in the skin and tissues, causing discoloration.




http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080519133449.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100524101339.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080811091257.htm


I can only find web sites that you probably wouldnt think are good sources of documentation about the silver spoons being given to babies by the wealthy during plagues.

but , I havent given up yet , Bill.

they got the information from someplace , and I'll probably find it.

meanwhile , I will be patiently waiting for some sort of
information from you from a good source that counters my stance.

I came across this web page in which some comical doctor or
something has documented the worthlessness of silver and thought I would share it.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/hi-ho-silver/

he would make a good fellow Bill.

in his article he mentioned "Blue Blooded" referencing the wealthy and questioning the ingestion of silver thus causing the blue blood.

its very funny that silver is so toxic to humans , yet the medical industry seems to be using tons of silver for its medicinal value , even in the paint on hospital walls.

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the anti alternative medicine people as I write.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44608 - 08/07/12 08:33 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

its very funny that silver is so toxic to humans , yet the medical industry seems to be using tons of silver for its medicinal value , even in the paint on hospital walls.

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the anti alternative medicine people as I write.



Just to make your day it IS NOT NATURAL silver its a manufactured NANO particle that doesn't occur anywhere in nature :-)

http://www.nanomagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=938:researchers-develop-mrsa-killing-paint&catid=38:nano-news&Itemid=159

http://www.livestrong.com/article/492719...rsa-infections/

I am not really anti-alternative but I did get a huge laugh at your idea it was natural silver in the paint.

Bad news for you there are even more exotic nano technology being added to the next generation of paints.

Come on you have to admire technology ... well I do.




Edited by Orac (08/07/12 08:33 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44612 - 08/07/12 04:20 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Paul, I have scanned back through my posts on this thread and while I think I have shown some skepticism about the use of silver for health reasons, in fact I have only really discussed the idea that "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth" referred to the rich people putting a silver spoon in a babies mouth to protect him/her from disease. You don't seem to get the idea that I am willing to be convinced if you can come up with something to support the idea. My researches have come up with nothing. I even went to the alt.fables.urban news group and so far nobody over there has come up with anything. The same for Scopes.com.

So you still need to come up with some good documentation or admit that possibly that idea is wrong.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44613 - 08/07/12 09:26 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Just to make your day it IS NOT NATURAL silver its a manufactured NANO particle that doesn't occur anywhere in nature :-)


sorry orac , it is silver , they just use radiation to split the silver to form the nanoparticles.

Quote:
Silver Nanoparticles
Silver is an ancient remedy used throughout history to treat infections. Now scientists have found a way to use radiation to split silver and form nanoparticles.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/492719.../#ixzz22tjUc4GH


and just to make your day orac , could they use something other than silver and split it with radiation and achieve the same results!

if you take the natural silver away from them , they could still split stuff but what good would it be.

if you split a silver particle in half its still silver even though its in halves and even if you use another name such as nano particles to describe the halves.

thanks orac that vector was amusing.








_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44614 - 08/07/12 09:48 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
So you still need to come up with some good documentation or admit that possibly that idea is wrong.


the way I see it is , everywhere I look I see "that idea" so why would I even think about it being wrong?

there is no evidence supporting your claim that it is wrong.

there is evidence supporting my claim of it being right.

so I lean towards the idea being right.

The phrase "born with a silver spoon in his mouth" appeared in print in English as early as 1719

the printed version was translated from spanish.

("muchas veces donde hay estacas no hay tocinos,")
literally:
("often where there are hooks [for hanging hams] there are no hams")

still looking.

the most interesting thing I have found is the term blue blooded.

silver intake can cause the skin to turn blue if too
much is ingested , it is only temporary but silver may
be the reason this saying came about also.

as only the wealthy ate with silver spoons and forks and knives and used silver plates and drank from silver glases
the beverage poured from silver pitchers . that could add up to quite a bit of silver in the body.

as soon as their skin was exposed to sunlight the chemical
reaction would begin to occur , this could be a reason why the wealthy also looked so sickly and pale skinned , because the wealthy may have avoided sunlight to prevent their skin from turning a shade of blue.


















_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44615 - 08/07/12 10:36 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: ABC News
The connection to colds and flu or just being sick in general is unclear. Some definitions of the phrase state that because children fed with silver spoons were observed to get sick less often as opposed to the poor class, "born with a silver spoon in your mouth" has a medical origin.

Phrase experts are skeptical of this assertion.


The quote is from God Bless You! Idioms for Those With the Cold and Flu Illness (page 2).

Now if you will please find something that actually supports your belief then I will happily agree that you are right.

Otherwise, that's about enough, I'm through with this discussion.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44616 - 08/07/12 10:36 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
heres something I found , not that you would consider it
good documentation.

http://www.sensationalcolor.com/color-me...lver-spoon.html

Quote:
The term "blue blood" came to be associated with the aristocracy simply because it was not uncommon in earlier times for European nobility to have skin that appeared to have a blue cast. The bluish (or sometimes greenish) discoloration of their skin was often caused by a condition known as Argyria.

Argyria it the result of ingested silver particles that are not able to pass through the body. Historically, this was caused by particles from silver eating utensils being swallowed along with food or silver being taken for medicinal purposes. Aristocrats were originally the ones who could afford medicine and who enjoyed the daily privilege of eating off of silver plates, drinking from silver vessels, and, as the saying goes, being born with "a silver spoon in their mouth." Thus, Argyria was a condition that was more common among the upper class.


http://www.lifesilver.com/history.htm

Quote:
The popularity of medicinal silver especially arose from 702 A.D. through 980 A.D. throughout the Middle East where it was widely used and esteemed for blood purification, heart conditions, and controlling halitosis. Paracelsus (circa 1520) extensively incorporated silver medicinally, and later Caradanus, Pareus and Sala also used it. Angelus Sala used silver nitrate to successfully treat chorea, tabes dorsalis (syphilis), and "doubtably epilepsy". These crude forms of silver were reported by Sala to rarely cause the bluish hue of skin discoloration due to its overuse (Argyria). It is widely thought that during the Middle Ages, silver utensils and goblets contributed a bluish hue to the skin tone of the upper class, resulting in the term "royal blue bloods." Plausibly the term "born with a silver spoon in his mouth"


http://www.quora.com/How-did-the-term-Blue-Blood-come-about

Quote:
Queen Elizabeth I, less than real life portrait where the artist was challenged by the very Blue skin and veins. See the temples and the hands for more detail.


[img]http://qph.cf.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fa41a250775b5aad51e6782d55363fdf[/img]

its a picture not documentation but the blue tint is easily seen in the hands cheeks and temples.

Quote:
Silver Spoons, Goblets And Plates

Silver has one of the most powerful antibacterial properties of any substance naturally occurring. Silver was a very pronounced way to portray wealth by Royal families and went about to use it for many common items. Most pointed to this insight is the use of Silver forks, spoons, knives, drinking goblets, plates, etc. The very high use of Silver eating and drinking conveyances means that there was a very high transfer of ionic and colloidal silver mixed into the alkaline and acidic foods. Most directly the Silver Wine Goblet could leach 100s of parts per million of Silver in the Wine. History shows that there was a great deal of Silver Wine Goblets in use with the Royal families. High consumption of Silver actually allowed for very high resistance to bacterial infections. However, the very high levels of Silver also caused Argyria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arg...). The condition of Argyria literally caused Blue skin and rather pronounced blue veins and arteries.

No Tan Lines

Royal nobility through just about all of history would covet the notion that they were “untouched by the sun” and thus were not tanned. Tanning was a sign of a manual laborer that spent a great deal of time outdoors. Thus the very pronounced white almost translucent skin became a part of the Royal image. This type of skin allowed for a much more pronounced view of the veins and arteries.

Conclusion

We can be very certain that the combination of a very unique RH factor along with the Blueing effect of high use of Silver with very translucent skin created the term Blue Blood. There is no doubt that the common person or peasant would marvel at the skin and the pronounced Blue color of the Royal blood coursing through the Royal veins.


have you found anything yet?



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44617 - 08/07/12 11:01 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Does it matter about the health properties of Babys silver spoons.?
The rich tended to give babys a silver spoon as a keepsake. You can also give and buy Silver teething rings and spoons today.
There is no doubt that these "silver" spoon babys were more healthy.
Prehaps it was because the parents were richer, and employed Nannys?. Here is an article about Babys, and siver Spoons.

Quite easy to find Bill Gill, prehaps you didnt look hard enough?
http://motherpie.typepad.com/motherpie/2006/07/born_with_a_sil.html

Anyway be that as it may.....I trust you have all bought your packet of Elastoplaster Silver bandages, for use when you next cut yourselves.?
NOTE. You stick 'em on as soon as you get a cut (terrific for kids) Do NOT use them if your cut has developed into a yellow oozing Staph: pus. You are expecting far too much at that stage.
Silver bandaids work on the surface ...not inside wounds.
IF you apply your silver Bandaid straight after a cut... It will NEVER develop into a Staph pus breeding wound. Guaranteed.

http://www.elastoplast.co.uk/products/sensitive-antibacterial

Those above Silver bandaids are WOVEN with very very fine silver thread into the cotton!

BUT Colloidal Silver is completely different....You drink it!!

Its supposed to kill Pylori-Bacteria (that causes Stomach Ulcers) and other nasty Germs.
Well dont laugh I did say suppose-to.
Those of you that know about medical History will know that the only substance that could kill the virulent sex disease of Syphilis in the 1850's was Mercury, with added Silver
....in all the forms and concoctions the Doctors could think of. So there you are

It seems very easy to make your own Silver colloidal solution.
Using clean glass bottle (not plastic), and 99.9% pure silver wire, and about 12v-18volts of DC current. Distilled water (if you are going to drink the Silver Colloid)
You can use tap water but ONLY for EXTERNAL use.

Since tap water has lead, copper,chalk phosphates and other items. All Ok to drink in the minute quantities the water Board supplies.....But no good when you Electro-lyse the tapwater.

http://www.atlasnova.com/CSMakingInfo.htmwater.

http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer02/CSilver.html

Oh just as an afterthought. And its not a joke.

The British Army issue underpants woven with fine silver to its SAS personnel, who are about to go undercover on a long secret mission/operation.
....and may get no opportunity to wash.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#44618 - 08/07/12 11:03 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
In the last quote it says they used a lot of silver, and it may have helped them. And it does mention that they may have had a blue tint to their skin from the silver. It says nothing about their deliberately selecting silver for its medicinal qualities. And it certainly doesn't say anything about "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth".


Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44621 - 08/08/12 04:05 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
I agree with Mike , the article / web page he posted clearly
states why silver was chosen , because of its antibiotic capabilities.

there are plenty of sayings that were never documented , they were just said for a purpose , for instance the old saying

Practice what you preach

meaning if you expect someone to follow certain guidlines you should put those guidlines into practice for yourself also and not just demand that other people follow your guidlines.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44622 - 08/08/12 04:24 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
I have wanted to make one of these for some time now but am
still concerned about the contaminates I might get from various sources.

I usually buy my colodial silver from a health food store who carries the best brands , I have used it on a abscess tooth before , several times as a matter of fact.

after trying the prescribed antibiotics for several weeks
with no results , in fact the swelling was getting worst I
decided to hold some of the colodial silver next to the
abscess to give that a try , I held it next to the abscess
for about 10 minutes , then spit it out.

in the middle of the night I got a big surprise when I woke up.
the abscess pops , the puss drains into the mouth and there
is a really really bad taste in the mouth.

and a hole in the gum that you can feel with the tongue.
it was slightly scary because the hole felt large.

I quickly rinsed my mouth with warm water and then swish
more of the colodial silver in my mouth again and spit it out.

the next morning all pain and swelling is gone and the hole was much smaller.

now when I get a tooth pain I dont bother taking the antibiotics I just use the colodial silver because it
works , and that is important to me.

that is but one experience I have had.

my dog scratched me with his claws on my arm , soon afterwards
I noticed my arm feeling warm and it was starting to hurt
not just where the scratch was but my entire arm was starting to hurt.

I sprayed some colodial silver on the scratch and drank about a teaspoon
of the colodial silver and in a few hours the pain was gone.

I havent had a good cold or flu in 8-9 years or so except for
a year or so ago when I allowed a cold to develop on purpose
so that I could allow my system to beat the strain itself.

its a great product and definitely worth the money.

I dont take it on a daily basis , only when I feel as if
something is wrong.

and then theres caprylic acid and echinacea & goldenseal root.

if I get a stomach virus I take 1 caprylic acid and its gone within minutes.

I put 1/2 cup of water and 1 caprylic acid in the blender
and blend them together , then I swish the mixture around
in my mouth and swallow it , I dont rush taking the entire amount
all at once , it taste kind of like chalky coconuts.

the echinacea & goldenseal root I take afterwards to build my imune system back up.

usually only 2 are needed.












_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44625 - 08/08/12 05:48 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

thanks orac that vector was amusing.


This is a bit like you argument over "silver spoon" with Bill ;-)

Your information is a nice story you believe but it stops there with you ... here try wikipedia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_nanoparticles)

You may want to read the part about health concerns which are quite different to natural silver

Quote:

Exposure to silver nanoparticles has been associated with "inflammatory, oxidative, genotoxic, and cytotoxic consequences"; the silver particulates primarily accumulate in the liver.[5] but have also been shown to be toxic in other organs including the brain.[6]


Silver loaded anti-bacterial paint is produced by the wet process to because they want the collide base on the nano-particles to bind into the paint.

As nano-technology has become a bad word to people like you they are investigating "green" more natural ways to do it but no commercialisation has been achieved.

Examples of attempts to green up the process:
http://www.ipcbee.com/vol5/74-X10024.pdf
http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/engineering/issues/muh-10-34-4/muh-34-4-7-1005-30.pdf
http://www.chalcogen.infim.ro/369_Ankanna.pdf


So if you want to fool yourself that silver nano-particles are somehow natural knock yourself out.
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44627 - 08/08/12 08:32 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
you still didnt say anything about natural silver being used to make the nano silver particles now did you.

its ok though orac , the article says that.

you just seem to think that there is no natural silver involved in the making of nano silver particles.

Im not concerned with nano silver particles myself , I think its just an attempt to commercialize the benefits of silver.

in other words , silver has been found to beat antibacterial prescription drugs handsdown so big business is trying to pick up on it in a way that will exclude the natural silver that they must use to make the nano silver particles.

they probably are aware of their constant denial of the medicinal value of silver and they are trying to find ways to hide or cover up their mistakes about silvers medicinal
values just like any good stupid smart person does on a daily basis.

but they need natural silver to begin with , just like the
evolutionist crackpots need created organisms to begin with.

Quote:
So if you want to fool yourself that silver nano-particles are somehow natural knock yourself out.


I never said they were , I said they were made from natural silver.

heres what I said

Quote:
its very funny that silver is so toxic to humans , yet the medical industry seems to be using tons of silver for its medicinal value , even in the paint on hospital walls.


apples dont grow on trees already cut in half either.

so if I split an apple in half , the split apple is not like anything found in nature either.

it takes a natural apple to start with to end up with apple nano particles.

therefore

it takes natural silver to start with to end up with silver nano particles.

if todays medicine manufacturers ever come up with a medicine that does not cause further health hazzards or death due to its usage then I will be amazed.

so I cant find you point in the below information.

Quote:
Exposure to silver nanoparticles has been associated with "inflammatory, oxidative, genotoxic, and cytotoxic consequences"; the silver particulates primarily accumulate in the liver.[5] but have also been shown to be toxic in other organs including the brain.[6]


why would the medical industry want to change from being a
illness control industry to a illness healing industry when actual healing without the damaging of other vital organs would decrease the medical industries future income levels.

you have to think growth.

Quote:
As nano-technology has become a bad word to people like you they are investigating "green" more natural ways to do it but no commercialisation has been achieved.


I cant see why you would say such a thing , Im not anti
nano tech , I think it is great that they are re-investigating the medical value of silver.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44635 - 08/09/12 01:59 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

you just seem to think that there is no natural silver involved in the making of nano silver particles.


Oh there is natural silver used in the production in the same way the genes used in GM food are natural. Splicing jellyfish genes into cereal to make them therefore cold resistant is completely natural as well.


Originally Posted By: paul

Im not concerned with nano silver particles myself , I think its just an attempt to commercialize the benefits of silver.

in other words , silver has been found to beat antibacterial prescription drugs handsdown so big business is trying to pick up on it in a way that will exclude the natural silver that they must use to make the nano silver particles.


You are correct only they found and identified what it was in silver that gave it anti-bacterial properties and then we ramp it up and put it on steriods.


Originally Posted By: paul

they probably are aware of their constant denial of the medicinal value of silver and they are trying to find ways to hide or cover up their mistakes about silvers medicinal
values just like any good stupid smart person does on a daily basis.


I don't think they care for any of this rubbish they are there to grab market share making the most effective product for the lowest cost they can TO MAKE THE BIGGEST PROFIT THEY CAN.


Originally Posted By: paul

but they need natural silver to begin with , just like the
evolutionist crackpots need created organisms to begin with.


Never seen any evolutionary theory that starts with any organisms at all they all start with a chemical soup. You would have to link me what group of evolutionists you are talking about.


Originally Posted By: paul

apples dont grow on trees already cut in half either.

so if I split an apple in half , the split apple is not like anything found in nature either.

it takes a natural apple to start with to end up with apple nano particles.

therefore

it takes natural silver to start with to end up with silver nano particles.


By the same logic then GM food is natural and safe.


Originally Posted By: paul

I cant see why you would say such a thing , Im not anti
nano tech , I think it is great that they are re-investigating the medical value of silver.


Thats fine then so lets take the logic out 1 step ... do you also view GM food as simply re-investigating the useful properties of natural genes?

I am also going to stretch you paul are these natural or un-natural and why?

http://phys.org/news/2012-08-stars-hexagons-dna-code-gold.html


Incase you havent worked it out what I find interesting among those who consider themself "alternative" or "natural" is the weird distinction and definitions they seem to use on "natural".


Edited by Orac (08/09/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44649 - 08/09/12 07:34 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Orac

I didnt see your reply until just now , I will read it later
and reply to it.

I have a few documentaries to watch first , but I will get back
to you on your reply.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44653 - 08/10/12 02:07 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
No worries I am interested to see your answers as I take you on this little journey into science.

I do want you to understand I am in no way trying to pick on you or your views it just shows you the implications of your views in the very complex world of science. Our world is never black and white and sometimes random decisions have interesting fallout.

You never did ask me about my views you have sort of assumed lots of things from your response.

For the record in my opinion silver nano-particles in there current form are dangerous and should not be allowed.

Why: Simply because there is no biodegrability requirements put on the current generation of nano particles so those particles will remain active for a very very long time.

Controlled biodegrability has been investigated and is possible (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19441464) but because this will add cost you can be almost certain that for the at the moment silver nanopartilces that are being produced are not readily biodegrabable.

As of March 23rd there is now also another big problem with the silver nano-particles which we will get too on our little journey.


Edited by Orac (08/10/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44655 - 08/10/12 03:24 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Simply because there is no biodegrability requirements put on the current generation of nano particles so those particles will remain active for a very very long time.


how long is a very very long time?

is there a possibility that the amounts of nano silver particles
could remain in the body providing the benefits of silver for a very very long time?

are they concerned that people will never get ill because
of the nano silver staying in their bodies and that is what the opposition is focusing on while using the inability to biodegrade as a reason to not use the nano silver?

just curious.

Quote:
which we will get too on our little journey.


its just 1 o

to

too : too many
to: going to

Quote:
I am interested to see your answers


interested in seeing

not picking , just trying to help.

Quote:
No worries I am interested to see your answers as I take you on this little journey into science.


oh boy , journey..

any way you want it...

thats the way you need it...

any way you want it...





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44656 - 08/10/12 04:27 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

how long is a very very long time?

is there a possibility that the amounts of nano silver particles
could remain in the body providing the benefits of silver for a very very long time?

are they concerned that people will never get ill because
of the nano silver staying in their bodies and that is what the opposition is focusing on while using the inability to biodegrade as a reason to not use the nano silver?

just curious.


Oh you will have the wonderous anti-bacteria effects of the nano-silver for your entire life (the half life of biodegradability is well beyond your life expactancy). Down side is you will be long dead from toxicity.

Here is a starter background for you

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3118686/


Note that in the medical industry the recommendations

"The biocompatible coatings improve the performance of these nanoparticles, reduce their toxicity, and do not result in negative effects on cells. The emphasis of this study is to use biodegradable and biocompatible nanobiomaterials."

The problem is there is no such pressure put on general industry.

This whole thing is a landmine for every side and view. Infact as I will show you even biodegrability will not solve some issues and I have had to rethink my position as of march.

So to lead you into the maze you need to start by providing views and lets seee if you can navigate thru the problems science is throwing up.

So how do you view GM food and how do you view the above gold nanoparticles.


Edited by Orac (08/10/12 04:30 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44692 - 08/12/12 07:04 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
GM Foods:

they are not safe in my opinion.
they will cause mass starvation.

check the news today concerning corn.

any GM product should be stringently tested for decades before
its allowed to interact with our environment.

and the testing should be done by concerned individuals
not the industry.

concerned volunteers whos financial records are monitored.

gold nano particles:

its dinner time and my chicken thighs on the george forman grill are done , I still need to cook the okra and tomatoes
and rice , and the tea pitcher is almost empty so I also have
to make some tea.

Im thinking that natural gold does not dissolve in nature unless it is exposed to an acidic environment.

such as swamps.
also certain bacteria will grow gold ! sort of.

let me get back to you on this , ok.

heres an interesting bit on bacteria that disolve gold

http://news.discovery.com/earth/gold-bacteria-nuggets.html

Quote:
Gold nuggets are often the creations of bacterial biofilms, say Australian researchers who have demonstrated the process and even identified the bacteria at work.

Layers of bacteria can actually dissolve gold into nanoparticles, which move through rocks and soils, and then deposit it in other places, sometimes creating purer "secondary" gold deposits in cracks and crevices of rocks. The process overturns the long-held belief by some scientists that gold ore is created only by "primary" physical geological processes.


so thats what that stuff is that cloggs up my well.

I never have figured out a way to keep that gold looking
junk out of my garden.

its not just gold though its copper also and some silvery mess
that accumulates on the surface of any container that I put the well water in.

it forms a shiny metalic surface.

when I dip a leaf into it the slime sticks to the leaf.
I let it dry and some of the gold just dissapears depending
on how long it dries.

I burn the leaf and it leaves a tiny ball of gold.
I guess its gold.

this never happened before, I did something that I believe
caused this to happen.

note:
just in case others have observed this slime in their well water , its toxic if its gold.

Quote:
"We tagged the DNA and saw the beautiful active biofilm (dissolving the gold)," said Brugger. "That was very interesting because gold in soluble form is very toxic." That dissolved gold can then be redeposited in other places in a much purer form.


just thought I would throw that in...

but thats not on topic so , lets continue.

the ingredient in tea leaves is what cures the prostate cancer
so couldnt bacteria be used to disolve the natural gold into nanoparticles vs the expensive nuclear process?

would this work?

or is this too natural for science.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44698 - 08/13/12 03:52 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul
GM Foods:

they are not safe in my opinion.
they will cause mass starvation.

check the news today concerning corn.

any GM product should be stringently tested for decades before
its allowed to interact with our environment.

and the testing should be done by concerned individuals
not the industry.

concerned volunteers whos financial records are monitored.



So this response begs the question GM needs to be tested for decades to determine if it's safe yet silver nanoparticles we should be swilling tomorrow. Isn't that inconsistant logic?

Concerned individuals whose financials are monitored? What about donations to organizations, placement in wils, sexual favours etc there are many ways to "pay" for things. Con men and witchdoctors will always find ways to go around such monitoring.


Quote:

the ingredient in tea leaves is what cures the prostate cancer
so couldnt bacteria be used to disolve the natural gold into nanoparticles vs the expensive nuclear process?

would this work?

or is this too natural for science.


I am not sure why you think science is against nature ... I find that comment a bit weird.

Your suggestion above is sort of what science does look at natural compounds that have an effect and try and work out what the active ingredient is and how to purify it, deliver it better and improve the results. It is a good thought and would be worth investigating.

Aprin which you wrote a large discussion on is a typical example. Salicylic acid the main active ingredient of asprin comes from the word salix in latin which means willow tree. The origin of the name is because the compound was first discovered from a herbal rememeby made from the bark of the willow tree from pre-BC times.


Edited by Orac (08/13/12 03:53 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44701 - 08/13/12 06:05 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
this response begs the question GM needs to be tested for decades to determine if it's safe yet silver nanoparticles we should be swilling tomorrow. Isn't that inconsistant logic?


silvers not toxic.
unless you take too much of it.
but if you take too much of anything its harmful.
this is exactly why the FDA needs to determine safe levels through another study.

plus theres a big difference and the
two ( silver and GM ) should not be used as a comparison.

silver might be found to be harmful to (a) human.

but GM foods could harm (all) humans.

Quote:
Concerned individuals whose financials are monitored? What about donations to organizations, placement in wils, sexual favours etc there are many ways to "pay" for things. Con men and witchdoctors will always find ways to go around such monitoring.



but we wouldnt be trying to get politicians to do the studies either , so I almost feel safe using concerned citizens for that purpose , as it stands big pharma tells the FDA what to do , not the other way around.

they test their own products under their own rules.

Quote:
I am not sure why you think science is against nature ... I find that comment a bit weird.


Im just saying that when natural remedies are being used to
treat an illness , science tends to make the natural remedy look as if it is quackery.

probably because doctors havent been educated in the use
of natural remedies , they are only taught to use prescription drugs for illnesses.

Quote:
It is a good thought and would be worth investigating.


I thought so myself , it would be more along the lines of
micro biology rather than nuclear medicine but it is the
final product that would count , not the method of producing the product.


but wouldnt the bioaccumulation of gold still be a factor?

but there are products in use today that can rid the body of
the gold particles , such as penicillamine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillamine

and Dimercaprol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimercaprol


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44702 - 08/13/12 12:01 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer

Mike Kremer wrote,

'Excellent information regarding your last two URL's,
Re Chelating agents, Thanks

In a previous letter, Orac mentions tea can cure prostate cancer,
I know all tea comes from the same source (bush?) But I understood that it was green tea that is the more beneficial heathwise, (being the more natural)?
I wonder if this is due because green tea leaves are picked and
immediately packaged for use?
While (black) tea is picked and allowed to ferment to get its black color.


_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#44703 - 08/13/12 01:21 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

plus theres a big difference and the
two ( silver and GM ) should not be used as a comparison.

silver might be found to be harmful to (a) human.

but GM foods could harm (all) humans.


Thats all well and fine UNTIL YOU ARE THE ONE PERSON.

So it's about time I come clean

Humans:
http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/34/3/559.abstract
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120314100416.htm
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1206/1206.4816.pdf

Mice:
http://actanaturae.ru/article.aspx?id=168

Rats:
http://www.academicjournals.org/ajmr/PDF/Pdf2012/19July/Sardari%20et%20al.pdf

Aquatic life:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn204671v
http://www1.cnsi.ucla.edu/news/item?item_id=2063451

The enviroment:
http://advancinggreenchemistry.org/?p=2730
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080429135502.htm



QUESTIONS:

1.) Still want to be the first to start swilling the stuff down?

2.) Under you concerned people proposal science and FDA are sidelined now because we are so evil ... so who is responsible for finding these things out and telling people?


Originally Posted By: paul

Im just saying that when natural remedies are being used to
treat an illness , science tends to make the natural remedy look as if it is quackery.

probably because doctors havent been educated in the use
of natural remedies , they are only taught to use prescription drugs for illnesses.


OR it could be that many of the so called remedies have absolutely no proof they do anything.

I have no problem with natural remedies so long as they are not wives tales and witchdoctor reviews. So what the natural remedies people should be doing is organize rigorous testing.

You complain about the big pharma companies but they do alot of testing on there drugs and when they stuff up there testing and people die they face lawsuits.

If your concerned people stuff up like they may in the above case of nano-particle silver and I get testicular cancer WHO DOES MY FAMILY SEEK COMPENSATION FROM ?


Originally Posted By: paul

I thought so myself , it would be more along the lines of
micro biology rather than nuclear medicine but it is the
final product that would count , not the method of producing the product.

but wouldnt the bioaccumulation of gold still be a factor?

but there are products in use today that can rid the body of
the gold particles , such as penicillamine.


And again I have no problem with any of that BUT it all neeeds testing before we start telling people it is safe to do this sort of stuff.


SO QUESTION:
Who does all that testing and how do they pay for it?


Edited by Orac (08/13/12 01:23 PM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44704 - 08/13/12 03:06 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
your first link concerns acrylics in the workplace.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/34/3/559.abstract

which is a very important matter , not just because of the
workers but because of the ventilation that exhaust the polyacrylics into the atmosphere that others outside the factory can breath in.

proper safety measures are not being followed in asia as the factories must cut the cost of manufacturing due to demands
by their share holders / customers.

globalization does not care about people it only cares about money.

this link was important but not in context with our discussion.

your second link

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120314100416.htm

possible consequences for fertility!

that would be a good trade off , if your other options are
what is currently available as treatments of many illnesses.

and knowing that the survival rate is around 1 in 20 or something like that given that you exclude the first 5 years
after treatment.

your third link
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1206/1206.4816.pdf

this is the type of study that is needed.
and many studies are needed.

with graphs that show particle size and absorption
amounts, a quick reference , something to use as a tool.

standards if / when possible.

I agree with you that these types of studies would be expensive , but who would benefit from these studies?

Quote:
Who does all that testing and how do they pay for it?


Insurance companies !!!

insurance is mandatory , 1 or 2 prevented lawsuits would
pay for several studies and a research facility.


I havent read the other links yet , its oatmeal time.
the coffee was really good and the reading was interesting
my keyboard is not cooperating with me this morning so
I need the extra strength to bang on the keys to ensure that each character is placed in its correct position.

Quote:
OR it could be that many of the so called remedies have absolutely no proof they do anything.


well , as it stands we only have testimonials from users of
the remedies , so how do you get proof?

clinical studies !

who performs clinical studies?

the people who are constantly claiming that there is no proof!





Top
#44711 - 08/13/12 04:31 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
who performs clinical studies?

the people who are constantly claiming that there is no proof!


Wow! some good conspiracy stuff here.

Having done their clinical studies, if they still say there is no proof, is that because there is no proof; or because they didn't want to find any?

Then again, could it be that they did thier tests on the wrong animals. If antibiotics had originally been tested on guinea pigs they wouldn't have passed the first hurdle.
_________________________
There never was nothing.

Top
#44718 - 08/13/12 06:17 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Having done their clinical studies, if they still say there is no proof, is that because there is no proof; or because they didn't want to find any?

Then again, could it be that they did thier tests on the wrong animals. If antibiotics had originally been tested on guinea pigs they wouldn't have passed the first hurdle.


so all the clinical test that they have done are worthless then?

it would be nice if the testing were carried out in a(n) honest fashion.

but , when someones / some companies reputation is on the line they usually do things in a(n) honest fashion, dont they.

if you dont think that they could be trusted to carry out
honest testing then why should we trust what they have already tested.

you almost make it sound like they would intentionally do testing that would deliver false results.

do you think they would?











_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44726 - 08/13/12 10:45 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Paul
you almost make it sound like they would intentionally do testing that would deliver false results.

Well, there are a lot of times when the companies that are being watched over by the FDA still present medicines that are not adequately tested, but they present evidence that they have been. If companies that are being watched still do that sort of thing I don't think I would trust any body who was doing their own unsupervised testing. After all that is why we have an FDA, to try to keep people from selling snake oil with the claims that it is good for you. Before the FDA there were thousands of companies selling health products that were ineffective, if not down right harmful. Some people who are selling alternative medicines are still doing it. Notice that I said some. I'm sure that some alternative medicine vendors are doing an honest job of trying to help people. The ones that aren't are the ones that worry me. And they are why I don't have a lot of faith in alternative medicine. I have no way of sorting the good from the bad.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44730 - 08/14/12 01:50 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
I have the same reservations as Bill nothing would change infact it would get a whole lot worse and then you have the following


Originally Posted By: paul

Insurance companies !!!

insurance is mandatory , 1 or 2 prevented lawsuits would
pay for several studies and a research facility.


Do you really think that is ever going to get off the ground?

Many would view it as a new tax and many would say there are alot of people who couldn't afford to pay it etc.

Seriously do you think any government or public are going to allow or vote for this to happen?
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44733 - 08/14/12 03:34 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Do you really think that is ever going to get off the ground?

Many would view it as a new tax and many would say there are alot of people who couldn't afford to pay it etc.

Seriously do you think any government or public are going to allow or vote for this to happen?


why would anyone view it as a tax at all?

if insurance companies pay to do the studies / testing
and cures are found or alternate medicine is found to
replace several high dollar treatments and medicines then wouldnt the insurance companies profit from that lower cost?

big pharma is constantly being sued because people are always dying or become severely ill due to taking their barely tested new medicines.

if they are not barely tested then why do people die or get severely ill?

and cost is becomming a real problem , so much that people cant afford insurance.

I dont see why the insurance industry could not fund the testing without any one voting.

thorough testing would mean safer medicines , and would prevent lawsuits , and would lower insurance cost to doctors , hospitals , companies , people , etc...

life insurance companies could collect premiums longer before they have to pay the life insurance benefits.

100,000 people a year die in the U.S due to prescription drugs.

http://www.alternet.org/story/147318/100...panies_get_rich

98,000 people die a year in the U.S. due to bad medical practices.

http://www.sagamoreinstitute.org/ao/index/article/id/3004


medical bills are very high because the insurance is very high and that cost is simply passed on to the patient.

the reason the insurance keeps going up is because medicine keeps getting worse.

someone who makes a medical product for a dollar has to sell that product for a thousand dollars or more just because of the insurance he must carry to cover any damages his product might cause.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44734 - 08/14/12 04:03 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

why would anyone view it as a tax at all?


Umm because you are paying for something you may never use or need. Besides taxes on various things, name any other situation in which that is true?


Originally Posted By: paul

if insurance companies pay to do the studies / testing
and cures are found or alternate medicine is found to
replace several high dollar treatments and medicines then wouldnt the insurance companies profit from that lower cost?


So why wouldn't the insurance companies choose little or no testing?

I mean lots of people dying, lots of people claiming. Your premiums are set on likelyhoods the insurance companies simply make profit on turnover.

You need to remember insurance companies are just as greedy and problematic as pharma I am not sure giving them this role is a great idea :-)


Originally Posted By: paul

big pharma is constantly being sued because people are always dying or become severely ill due to taking their barely tested new medicines.


I am not convinced it would be any less under your idea infact I would say it's going to be a hell of a lot more deaths.


Originally Posted By: paul

if they are not barely tested then why do people die or get severely ill?


Becuase someone stuffed up but thats the point they are held accountable.

You criticise the FDA for not telling drug companies what to do but if they did so they would be legally responsible. It is supposed to be that drug companies foillow any scientific leads on possible problems with drugs ... that is ther moral obligation imposed on them.

If the FDA setout testing then you can guarantee that drug companies would only do the prescribed testing which is the weakness of your idea. If people died because of something that the FDA didn't set as a test for the drug companies who does a person sue the FDA?

The FDA v Pharma interaction works the way it does because all the responsibility is put squarely on the drug companies.


Originally Posted By: paul

and cost is becomming a real problem , so much that people cant afford insurance.


I don't see it getting any cheaper under your idea infact I would argue the current system is very close to your idea

FDA = your concerned peoples group
AMA/Doctors board = you control group or board
Medical Indemity Insurance = Your insurance


I don't see you suggest anything radically different to what already exists and alright it may not work that well according to you.

TWO QUESTION FOR YOU:

1.) Why are so few alternative doctors and remedies meeting the current drug/doctor schema.

2.) If we created your version of the drug schema people and companies not complying can't practice or supply drugs I assume.


Edited by Orac (08/14/12 04:04 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44736 - 08/14/12 04:26 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
your argument boils down to the FDA is a invalid agency.

Quote:
If the FDA setout testing then you can guarantee that drug companies would only do the prescribed testing which is the weakness of your idea. If people died because of something that the FDA didn't set as a test for the drug companies who does a person sue the FDA?


so we should save the tax payers the money they are wasting on funding the FDA.

why not , they have proven that they are an invalid agency by
requiring supplements and vitamins to have a warning label
when the death rate from taking vitamins and supplements is

ZERO

so we cant trust the FDA , the death rate shows that.
we cant trust the drug companies , the death rate shows that.
and if we cant trust the insurance companies then
do we just throw our hands up and surrender to them.

or do we strive for better testing of drugs by some better
process or method.











_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44738 - 08/14/12 04:36 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
It is as valid as your "concerned citizens group" what exactly thier role is somewhat interesting.

No you couldn't remove the FDA no more than you could remove your "concerned citizens group" but you can always argue and look at the role and function they are playing.

I am not a fan of the FDA I think they could do there role alot different and better but that doesn't mean I think they are obselete.

You still avoided answering why you think so few alternative remedies are making it under the FDA and why you think so many more would make it under your scheme.


Edited by Orac (08/14/12 04:37 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44739 - 08/14/12 04:44 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
No you couldn't remove the FDA no more than you could remove your "concerned citizens group" but you can always argue and look at the role and function they are playing.


why?

what purpose do they serve?

are they only in place to warn people away from the dangers
of alternative medicine?

while they allow the murder of people by big pharma and
approve the murdering drugs.

100,000 people a year , murdered by big pharma.

its nothing less than murder because with proper testing those lives could have been saved.

its big money , and the faster they can deliver their money makers to the medical industry the quicker they can make the billions each year.

they probably think so what if some percentage of people die because of the barely tested medicines , the profit from the other percentage of people who dont die will pay the lawsuits.


Quote:
You still avoided answering why you think so few alternative remedies are making it under the FDA


taxes


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44743 - 08/14/12 06:16 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

why?

what purpose do they serve?


Safeguard and check role the same role you assigned your "concerned citizen group" or are you backing away from that now so we have anyone and anything goes with alternate medicine.


Originally Posted By: paul

are they only in place to warn people away from the dangers
of alternative medicine?


They are there to protect ANY medicine be it from traditional or alternative.

Show me any evidence that they are being selective please?


Originally Posted By: paul

while they allow the murder of people by big pharma and
approve the murdering drugs.

100,000 people a year , murdered by big pharma.

its nothing less than murder because with proper testing those lives could have been saved.


Your scheme would probably (as you call it) murder more consider how many cases of testicular cancer alone you could have been facing.

Whatever scheme you set up will "murder people" because it is inevitable administering ANYTHING.

There are countless recordings of water toxicity which is consuming too much water too fast so the body does not get a chance to balance the electrolytes.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-511475/Man-35-drank-death-consuming-water.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1770067/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16614865/ns/us_news-life/t/woman-dies-after-water-drinking-contest/


So even recommending people drink water can be fatal.


Originally Posted By: paul

its big money , and the faster they can deliver their money makers to the medical industry the quicker they can make the billions each year.


And do you think that the con men etc are going to leave the alternative market alone when it is worth billions of dollars and you make it even easier.

Come on Paul you aren't that naive.


Originally Posted By: paul

they probably think so what if some percentage of people die because of the barely tested medicines , the profit from the other percentage of people who dont die will pay the lawsuits.



And as I said your scheme the exact same mechanics will be at play and the same outcomes you haven't changed the drivers or the system.

Alternative medicine under your idea would look EXACTLY the same as it does currently only the players dresses change.

Quote:

taxes



Show me evidence of these taxes please?

I think you will find it is the cost of the testing that has stopped alternative remedies and again that will be no different under you scheme unless you are going to reduce standards and murder more people.


Edited by Orac (08/14/12 06:22 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44748 - 08/14/12 03:10 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Safeguard and check role the same role you assigned your "concerned citizen group" or are you backing away from that now so we have anyone and anything goes with alternate medicine.


it looks like the safeguard part of the role has failed.

100,000 people every year ! murdered by the big pharma safeguard.

its more like planned murder.

100,000 people every year should have given the industry enough data to use to prevent these murders.

its a systemic operation that does NOT safeguard these medicines , it allows the murder of 100,000 people every year.

when people begin to charge the industry with murder , having the person in charge arrested for murder , then those in charge might do a little more testing and we might get safe medicines.

this is what would happen if another company were to be murdering 100,000 people every year , they would be arrested and put in prison.

so do away with the worthless FDA and start over , because the FDA is only there to legalize the murder.

its still murder.

theres no such thing as legalized murder.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44750 - 08/14/12 03:22 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
So even recommending people drink water can be fatal.


WOW , orac its not the water that is fatal, it is the dose.

Quote:
And do you think that the con men etc are going to leave the alternative market alone when it is worth billions of dollars and you make it even easier.


you havent even been paying attention have you?

I never said to leave it alone , Im saying to test it.

test the home remedies , if they are found to be dangerous
then take em off the shelf.

currently there is no such testing by anyone.

if you ask me your the one who is naive ,because you seem to
think that every thing is just fine.

you even defend the murders.

why is that?



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44751 - 08/14/12 03:26 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Ok, just a few notes about the FDA, well sort of. The FDA (or its predecessor) actually started regulating food and drugs in 1906. That was when Congress passed the first comprehensive food and drug safety legislation. So I jumped back in time to 1902. Specifically I dug out my reproduction of a 1902 Sears Roebuck catalog and checked the medical pages. They start out with an explanation that their pharmacist has carefully studied and tested the medicines that they are selling. Here are a few of them.

Dr. Worden's Female Pills for all female diseases.

Dr. Hammond's Nerve and Brain Pills, Guaranteed the highest grade on the market. A boon for weak men.

Dr. Rose's French Arsenic Complexion Wafers.

Castroline - You need not have any other medicine in your house for your children.

Vin Vitae A new and perfect tonic and stimulant for the tired, weak and sick of all classes. A renewer of energy, a stimulant for the fatigues, a strengthener for the weak, an effective an agreeable food for the blood, brain and nerves.

White Ribbon Secret Liquor Cure - Makes them stop drinking forever.

I didn't copy out the exaggerated claims for most of them that say they will cure almost anything. It doesn't say what is in any of them. I suspect that the Vin Vitae is highly alcoholic, most tonics from the time were.

The Castroline for your children may have contained opium or laudanum.

I just think maybe the FDA does do some good for us.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#44752 - 08/14/12 03:26 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
See answering questions got you into trouble hey so now we are back to stupid statements and taunting ... funny socratus does the same rubbish.

The answer for you paul is pharma may indeed murder 100 000 people but your sugegstion would murder more.

Until you can come up with a suggestion that would murder less you look pretty silly suggesting people go for it.

I have no problem with alternative medicines and if they worked and they murdered less people I would support them.

THE FACT IS THEY DON'T AND SO YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT DIES.

If you have an argument make it if you want to resort back to stupid taunting garbage our discussion is done.
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

Top
#44754 - 08/14/12 03:37 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
taunting ... funny socratus does the same rubbish.


then you should look in the mirror at socratus , because I
havent taunted you.

you have taunted me however , it is funny isnt it?
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#44772 - 08/15/12 06:59 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
I have not really been following this thread, nor have I read the article linked below. I post it only in case it might be of some interest/relevance, and possibly create a diversion from sniping.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/120807/srep00563/full/srep00563.html?WT.ec_id=SREP-20120814
_________________________
There never was nothing.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.