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#44603 - 08/06/12 03:16 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
Quote:
if you don't have any good documentation from the time to indicate that they really did use silver to protect themselves


since your the one focusing on good documentation , prehaps you
can show some good documentation that shows that they didnt
use siver to protect themselves.

that should be an easy task for you as you must have read that somewhere in a ancient medical text or something according to your stance so dont withold the data , let us in on it.

I have showed some evidence , lets see your counter.

after all to a rich person the difference between silver
and gold was like the difference between a penny and a dollar back then.

so why did they choose to flaunt the penny vs the dollar.

surely they knew the value of gold , them being rich n all.

such a impressive spoon , it really shows off ones wealth.
and its always nice and shiny.

even after you eat with it.





I agree with myself , the gold spoon flaunts wealth much better.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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.
#44604 - 08/06/12 04:50 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
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Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I see that as usual you don't want to actually back up your statements with facts. I keep saying, you are the salesman, not me. The salesman is the one who needs to be able to show the facts.

As far as the price of gold and silver? As you say gold is much more expensive. So only the very rich could afford it in large enough quantities. The ones who were just rich had to make do with silver. Kind of like the difference between Calvin Klein and Haute Couture.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#44606 - 08/07/12 02:36 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
Quote:
I see that as usual you don't want to actually back up your statements with facts.


I havent seen anything to show your reason for doubting what Im saying , your the doubter not me.

I have shown references you have shown nothing.

unless you think that just because you doubt it that makes me wrong along with all the people throughout history who have used silver for its medicinal values.

Bill , its not asking too much.

your so sure that silver was not used by wealthy people for
its medicinal values you must have some sort of documentation you can share with the readers.

heres a science page on silvers medicinal value that you can add to the list.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2005/0910-killing_germs.htm

Quote:
DUARTE, Calif.--For more than 6,000 years, humans have used silver to fight germs, also known as microbes. Now, some hospitals are using a silver compound to reduce hospital infections.



Quote:
Humans have used silver to ward off disease since the ancient Egyptians; the Greeks used silver vessels for water to keep it fresh. It is still used by settlers in the Australian outback, who suspend silverware in their water tanks to keep spoilage at bay. Silver fell out of favor with the discovery of antibiotics, but interest in its germ-fighting properties has resurged with the rise of drug-resistant organisms and concern over possible epidemics that don't respond to conventional treatment.
RISK FACTORS: Silver is harmless if ingested in small amounts, but like most metals, large doses can be toxic, sometimes fatal. Among other effects, excess silver can be deposited in the skin and tissues, causing discoloration.




http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080519133449.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100524101339.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080811091257.htm


I can only find web sites that you probably wouldnt think are good sources of documentation about the silver spoons being given to babies by the wealthy during plagues.

but , I havent given up yet , Bill.

they got the information from someplace , and I'll probably find it.

meanwhile , I will be patiently waiting for some sort of
information from you from a good source that counters my stance.

I came across this web page in which some comical doctor or
something has documented the worthlessness of silver and thought I would share it.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/hi-ho-silver/

he would make a good fellow Bill.

in his article he mentioned "Blue Blooded" referencing the wealthy and questioning the ingestion of silver thus causing the blue blood.

its very funny that silver is so toxic to humans , yet the medical industry seems to be using tons of silver for its medicinal value , even in the paint on hospital walls.

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the anti alternative medicine people as I write.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44608 - 08/07/12 08:33 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
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Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

its very funny that silver is so toxic to humans , yet the medical industry seems to be using tons of silver for its medicinal value , even in the paint on hospital walls.

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the anti alternative medicine people as I write.



Just to make your day it IS NOT NATURAL silver its a manufactured NANO particle that doesn't occur anywhere in nature :-)

http://www.nanomagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=938:researchers-develop-mrsa-killing-paint&catid=38:nano-news&Itemid=159

http://www.livestrong.com/article/492719...rsa-infections/

I am not really anti-alternative but I did get a huge laugh at your idea it was natural silver in the paint.

Bad news for you there are even more exotic nano technology being added to the next generation of paints.

Come on you have to admire technology ... well I do.




Edited by Orac (08/07/12 08:33 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#44612 - 08/07/12 04:20 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Paul, I have scanned back through my posts on this thread and while I think I have shown some skepticism about the use of silver for health reasons, in fact I have only really discussed the idea that "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth" referred to the rich people putting a silver spoon in a babies mouth to protect him/her from disease. You don't seem to get the idea that I am willing to be convinced if you can come up with something to support the idea. My researches have come up with nothing. I even went to the alt.fables.urban news group and so far nobody over there has come up with anything. The same for Scopes.com.

So you still need to come up with some good documentation or admit that possibly that idea is wrong.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#44613 - 08/07/12 09:26 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
Quote:
Just to make your day it IS NOT NATURAL silver its a manufactured NANO particle that doesn't occur anywhere in nature :-)


sorry orac , it is silver , they just use radiation to split the silver to form the nanoparticles.

Quote:
Silver Nanoparticles
Silver is an ancient remedy used throughout history to treat infections. Now scientists have found a way to use radiation to split silver and form nanoparticles.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/492719.../#ixzz22tjUc4GH


and just to make your day orac , could they use something other than silver and split it with radiation and achieve the same results!

if you take the natural silver away from them , they could still split stuff but what good would it be.

if you split a silver particle in half its still silver even though its in halves and even if you use another name such as nano particles to describe the halves.

thanks orac that vector was amusing.








_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44614 - 08/07/12 09:48 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
Quote:
So you still need to come up with some good documentation or admit that possibly that idea is wrong.


the way I see it is , everywhere I look I see "that idea" so why would I even think about it being wrong?

there is no evidence supporting your claim that it is wrong.

there is evidence supporting my claim of it being right.

so I lean towards the idea being right.

The phrase "born with a silver spoon in his mouth" appeared in print in English as early as 1719

the printed version was translated from spanish.

("muchas veces donde hay estacas no hay tocinos,")
literally:
("often where there are hooks [for hanging hams] there are no hams")

still looking.

the most interesting thing I have found is the term blue blooded.

silver intake can cause the skin to turn blue if too
much is ingested , it is only temporary but silver may
be the reason this saying came about also.

as only the wealthy ate with silver spoons and forks and knives and used silver plates and drank from silver glases
the beverage poured from silver pitchers . that could add up to quite a bit of silver in the body.

as soon as their skin was exposed to sunlight the chemical
reaction would begin to occur , this could be a reason why the wealthy also looked so sickly and pale skinned , because the wealthy may have avoided sunlight to prevent their skin from turning a shade of blue.


















_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44615 - 08/07/12 10:36 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: ABC News
The connection to colds and flu or just being sick in general is unclear. Some definitions of the phrase state that because children fed with silver spoons were observed to get sick less often as opposed to the poor class, "born with a silver spoon in your mouth" has a medical origin.

Phrase experts are skeptical of this assertion.


The quote is from God Bless You! Idioms for Those With the Cold and Flu Illness (page 2).

Now if you will please find something that actually supports your belief then I will happily agree that you are right.

Otherwise, that's about enough, I'm through with this discussion.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#44616 - 08/07/12 10:36 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
heres something I found , not that you would consider it
good documentation.

http://www.sensationalcolor.com/color-me...lver-spoon.html

Quote:
The term "blue blood" came to be associated with the aristocracy simply because it was not uncommon in earlier times for European nobility to have skin that appeared to have a blue cast. The bluish (or sometimes greenish) discoloration of their skin was often caused by a condition known as Argyria.

Argyria it the result of ingested silver particles that are not able to pass through the body. Historically, this was caused by particles from silver eating utensils being swallowed along with food or silver being taken for medicinal purposes. Aristocrats were originally the ones who could afford medicine and who enjoyed the daily privilege of eating off of silver plates, drinking from silver vessels, and, as the saying goes, being born with "a silver spoon in their mouth." Thus, Argyria was a condition that was more common among the upper class.


http://www.lifesilver.com/history.htm

Quote:
The popularity of medicinal silver especially arose from 702 A.D. through 980 A.D. throughout the Middle East where it was widely used and esteemed for blood purification, heart conditions, and controlling halitosis. Paracelsus (circa 1520) extensively incorporated silver medicinally, and later Caradanus, Pareus and Sala also used it. Angelus Sala used silver nitrate to successfully treat chorea, tabes dorsalis (syphilis), and "doubtably epilepsy". These crude forms of silver were reported by Sala to rarely cause the bluish hue of skin discoloration due to its overuse (Argyria). It is widely thought that during the Middle Ages, silver utensils and goblets contributed a bluish hue to the skin tone of the upper class, resulting in the term "royal blue bloods." Plausibly the term "born with a silver spoon in his mouth"


http://www.quora.com/How-did-the-term-Blue-Blood-come-about

Quote:
Queen Elizabeth I, less than real life portrait where the artist was challenged by the very Blue skin and veins. See the temples and the hands for more detail.


[img]http://qph.cf.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fa41a250775b5aad51e6782d55363fdf[/img]

its a picture not documentation but the blue tint is easily seen in the hands cheeks and temples.

Quote:
Silver Spoons, Goblets And Plates

Silver has one of the most powerful antibacterial properties of any substance naturally occurring. Silver was a very pronounced way to portray wealth by Royal families and went about to use it for many common items. Most pointed to this insight is the use of Silver forks, spoons, knives, drinking goblets, plates, etc. The very high use of Silver eating and drinking conveyances means that there was a very high transfer of ionic and colloidal silver mixed into the alkaline and acidic foods. Most directly the Silver Wine Goblet could leach 100s of parts per million of Silver in the Wine. History shows that there was a great deal of Silver Wine Goblets in use with the Royal families. High consumption of Silver actually allowed for very high resistance to bacterial infections. However, the very high levels of Silver also caused Argyria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arg...). The condition of Argyria literally caused Blue skin and rather pronounced blue veins and arteries.

No Tan Lines

Royal nobility through just about all of history would covet the notion that they were “untouched by the sun” and thus were not tanned. Tanning was a sign of a manual laborer that spent a great deal of time outdoors. Thus the very pronounced white almost translucent skin became a part of the Royal image. This type of skin allowed for a much more pronounced view of the veins and arteries.

Conclusion

We can be very certain that the combination of a very unique RH factor along with the Blueing effect of high use of Silver with very translucent skin created the term Blue Blood. There is no doubt that the common person or peasant would marvel at the skin and the pronounced Blue color of the Royal blood coursing through the Royal veins.


have you found anything yet?



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44617 - 08/07/12 11:01 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Does it matter about the health properties of Babys silver spoons.?
The rich tended to give babys a silver spoon as a keepsake. You can also give and buy Silver teething rings and spoons today.
There is no doubt that these "silver" spoon babys were more healthy.
Prehaps it was because the parents were richer, and employed Nannys?. Here is an article about Babys, and siver Spoons.

Quite easy to find Bill Gill, prehaps you didnt look hard enough?
http://motherpie.typepad.com/motherpie/2006/07/born_with_a_sil.html

Anyway be that as it may.....I trust you have all bought your packet of Elastoplaster Silver bandages, for use when you next cut yourselves.?
NOTE. You stick 'em on as soon as you get a cut (terrific for kids) Do NOT use them if your cut has developed into a yellow oozing Staph: pus. You are expecting far too much at that stage.
Silver bandaids work on the surface ...not inside wounds.
IF you apply your silver Bandaid straight after a cut... It will NEVER develop into a Staph pus breeding wound. Guaranteed.

http://www.elastoplast.co.uk/products/sensitive-antibacterial

Those above Silver bandaids are WOVEN with very very fine silver thread into the cotton!

BUT Colloidal Silver is completely different....You drink it!!

Its supposed to kill Pylori-Bacteria (that causes Stomach Ulcers) and other nasty Germs.
Well dont laugh I did say suppose-to.
Those of you that know about medical History will know that the only substance that could kill the virulent sex disease of Syphilis in the 1850's was Mercury, with added Silver
....in all the forms and concoctions the Doctors could think of. So there you are

It seems very easy to make your own Silver colloidal solution.
Using clean glass bottle (not plastic), and 99.9% pure silver wire, and about 12v-18volts of DC current. Distilled water (if you are going to drink the Silver Colloid)
You can use tap water but ONLY for EXTERNAL use.

Since tap water has lead, copper,chalk phosphates and other items. All Ok to drink in the minute quantities the water Board supplies.....But no good when you Electro-lyse the tapwater.

http://www.atlasnova.com/CSMakingInfo.htmwater.

http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer02/CSilver.html

Oh just as an afterthought. And its not a joke.

The British Army issue underpants woven with fine silver to its SAS personnel, who are about to go undercover on a long secret mission/operation.
....and may get no opportunity to wash.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#44618 - 08/07/12 11:03 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
In the last quote it says they used a lot of silver, and it may have helped them. And it does mention that they may have had a blue tint to their skin from the silver. It says nothing about their deliberately selecting silver for its medicinal qualities. And it certainly doesn't say anything about "Born with a silver spoon in his mouth".


Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#44621 - 08/08/12 04:05 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
I agree with Mike , the article / web page he posted clearly
states why silver was chosen , because of its antibiotic capabilities.

there are plenty of sayings that were never documented , they were just said for a purpose , for instance the old saying

Practice what you preach

meaning if you expect someone to follow certain guidlines you should put those guidlines into practice for yourself also and not just demand that other people follow your guidlines.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44622 - 08/08/12 04:24 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
I have wanted to make one of these for some time now but am
still concerned about the contaminates I might get from various sources.

I usually buy my colodial silver from a health food store who carries the best brands , I have used it on a abscess tooth before , several times as a matter of fact.

after trying the prescribed antibiotics for several weeks
with no results , in fact the swelling was getting worst I
decided to hold some of the colodial silver next to the
abscess to give that a try , I held it next to the abscess
for about 10 minutes , then spit it out.

in the middle of the night I got a big surprise when I woke up.
the abscess pops , the puss drains into the mouth and there
is a really really bad taste in the mouth.

and a hole in the gum that you can feel with the tongue.
it was slightly scary because the hole felt large.

I quickly rinsed my mouth with warm water and then swish
more of the colodial silver in my mouth again and spit it out.

the next morning all pain and swelling is gone and the hole was much smaller.

now when I get a tooth pain I dont bother taking the antibiotics I just use the colodial silver because it
works , and that is important to me.

that is but one experience I have had.

my dog scratched me with his claws on my arm , soon afterwards
I noticed my arm feeling warm and it was starting to hurt
not just where the scratch was but my entire arm was starting to hurt.

I sprayed some colodial silver on the scratch and drank about a teaspoon
of the colodial silver and in a few hours the pain was gone.

I havent had a good cold or flu in 8-9 years or so except for
a year or so ago when I allowed a cold to develop on purpose
so that I could allow my system to beat the strain itself.

its a great product and definitely worth the money.

I dont take it on a daily basis , only when I feel as if
something is wrong.

and then theres caprylic acid and echinacea & goldenseal root.

if I get a stomach virus I take 1 caprylic acid and its gone within minutes.

I put 1/2 cup of water and 1 caprylic acid in the blender
and blend them together , then I swish the mixture around
in my mouth and swallow it , I dont rush taking the entire amount
all at once , it taste kind of like chalky coconuts.

the echinacea & goldenseal root I take afterwards to build my imune system back up.

usually only 2 are needed.












_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44625 - 08/08/12 05:48 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

thanks orac that vector was amusing.


This is a bit like you argument over "silver spoon" with Bill ;-)

Your information is a nice story you believe but it stops there with you ... here try wikipedia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_nanoparticles)

You may want to read the part about health concerns which are quite different to natural silver

Quote:

Exposure to silver nanoparticles has been associated with "inflammatory, oxidative, genotoxic, and cytotoxic consequences"; the silver particulates primarily accumulate in the liver.[5] but have also been shown to be toxic in other organs including the brain.[6]


Silver loaded anti-bacterial paint is produced by the wet process to because they want the collide base on the nano-particles to bind into the paint.

As nano-technology has become a bad word to people like you they are investigating "green" more natural ways to do it but no commercialisation has been achieved.

Examples of attempts to green up the process:
http://www.ipcbee.com/vol5/74-X10024.pdf
http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/engineering/issues/muh-10-34-4/muh-34-4-7-1005-30.pdf
http://www.chalcogen.infim.ro/369_Ankanna.pdf


So if you want to fool yourself that silver nano-particles are somehow natural knock yourself out.
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#44627 - 08/08/12 08:32 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
you still didnt say anything about natural silver being used to make the nano silver particles now did you.

its ok though orac , the article says that.

you just seem to think that there is no natural silver involved in the making of nano silver particles.

Im not concerned with nano silver particles myself , I think its just an attempt to commercialize the benefits of silver.

in other words , silver has been found to beat antibacterial prescription drugs handsdown so big business is trying to pick up on it in a way that will exclude the natural silver that they must use to make the nano silver particles.

they probably are aware of their constant denial of the medicinal value of silver and they are trying to find ways to hide or cover up their mistakes about silvers medicinal
values just like any good stupid smart person does on a daily basis.

but they need natural silver to begin with , just like the
evolutionist crackpots need created organisms to begin with.

Quote:
So if you want to fool yourself that silver nano-particles are somehow natural knock yourself out.


I never said they were , I said they were made from natural silver.

heres what I said

Quote:
its very funny that silver is so toxic to humans , yet the medical industry seems to be using tons of silver for its medicinal value , even in the paint on hospital walls.


apples dont grow on trees already cut in half either.

so if I split an apple in half , the split apple is not like anything found in nature either.

it takes a natural apple to start with to end up with apple nano particles.

therefore

it takes natural silver to start with to end up with silver nano particles.

if todays medicine manufacturers ever come up with a medicine that does not cause further health hazzards or death due to its usage then I will be amazed.

so I cant find you point in the below information.

Quote:
Exposure to silver nanoparticles has been associated with "inflammatory, oxidative, genotoxic, and cytotoxic consequences"; the silver particulates primarily accumulate in the liver.[5] but have also been shown to be toxic in other organs including the brain.[6]


why would the medical industry want to change from being a
illness control industry to a illness healing industry when actual healing without the damaging of other vital organs would decrease the medical industries future income levels.

you have to think growth.

Quote:
As nano-technology has become a bad word to people like you they are investigating "green" more natural ways to do it but no commercialisation has been achieved.


I cant see why you would say such a thing , Im not anti
nano tech , I think it is great that they are re-investigating the medical value of silver.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44635 - 08/09/12 01:59 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

you just seem to think that there is no natural silver involved in the making of nano silver particles.


Oh there is natural silver used in the production in the same way the genes used in GM food are natural. Splicing jellyfish genes into cereal to make them therefore cold resistant is completely natural as well.


Originally Posted By: paul

Im not concerned with nano silver particles myself , I think its just an attempt to commercialize the benefits of silver.

in other words , silver has been found to beat antibacterial prescription drugs handsdown so big business is trying to pick up on it in a way that will exclude the natural silver that they must use to make the nano silver particles.


You are correct only they found and identified what it was in silver that gave it anti-bacterial properties and then we ramp it up and put it on steriods.


Originally Posted By: paul

they probably are aware of their constant denial of the medicinal value of silver and they are trying to find ways to hide or cover up their mistakes about silvers medicinal
values just like any good stupid smart person does on a daily basis.


I don't think they care for any of this rubbish they are there to grab market share making the most effective product for the lowest cost they can TO MAKE THE BIGGEST PROFIT THEY CAN.


Originally Posted By: paul

but they need natural silver to begin with , just like the
evolutionist crackpots need created organisms to begin with.


Never seen any evolutionary theory that starts with any organisms at all they all start with a chemical soup. You would have to link me what group of evolutionists you are talking about.


Originally Posted By: paul

apples dont grow on trees already cut in half either.

so if I split an apple in half , the split apple is not like anything found in nature either.

it takes a natural apple to start with to end up with apple nano particles.

therefore

it takes natural silver to start with to end up with silver nano particles.


By the same logic then GM food is natural and safe.


Originally Posted By: paul

I cant see why you would say such a thing , Im not anti
nano tech , I think it is great that they are re-investigating the medical value of silver.


Thats fine then so lets take the logic out 1 step ... do you also view GM food as simply re-investigating the useful properties of natural genes?

I am also going to stretch you paul are these natural or un-natural and why?

http://phys.org/news/2012-08-stars-hexagons-dna-code-gold.html


Incase you havent worked it out what I find interesting among those who consider themself "alternative" or "natural" is the weird distinction and definitions they seem to use on "natural".


Edited by Orac (08/09/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#44649 - 08/09/12 07:34 PM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
Orac

I didnt see your reply until just now , I will read it later
and reply to it.

I have a few documentaries to watch first , but I will get back
to you on your reply.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44653 - 08/10/12 02:07 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
No worries I am interested to see your answers as I take you on this little journey into science.

I do want you to understand I am in no way trying to pick on you or your views it just shows you the implications of your views in the very complex world of science. Our world is never black and white and sometimes random decisions have interesting fallout.

You never did ask me about my views you have sort of assumed lots of things from your response.

For the record in my opinion silver nano-particles in there current form are dangerous and should not be allowed.

Why: Simply because there is no biodegrability requirements put on the current generation of nano particles so those particles will remain active for a very very long time.

Controlled biodegrability has been investigated and is possible (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19441464) but because this will add cost you can be almost certain that for the at the moment silver nanopartilces that are being produced are not readily biodegrabable.

As of March 23rd there is now also another big problem with the silver nano-particles which we will get too on our little journey.


Edited by Orac (08/10/12 02:10 AM)
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I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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#44655 - 08/10/12 03:24 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: Orac]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
Quote:
Simply because there is no biodegrability requirements put on the current generation of nano particles so those particles will remain active for a very very long time.


how long is a very very long time?

is there a possibility that the amounts of nano silver particles
could remain in the body providing the benefits of silver for a very very long time?

are they concerned that people will never get ill because
of the nano silver staying in their bodies and that is what the opposition is focusing on while using the inability to biodegrade as a reason to not use the nano silver?

just curious.

Quote:
which we will get too on our little journey.


its just 1 o

to

too : too many
to: going to

Quote:
I am interested to see your answers


interested in seeing

not picking , just trying to help.

Quote:
No worries I am interested to see your answers as I take you on this little journey into science.


oh boy , journey..

any way you want it...

thats the way you need it...

any way you want it...





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3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#44656 - 08/10/12 04:27 AM Re: Buckyballs Prolong Life? [Re: paul]
Orac Offline
Megastar

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 2819
Loc: Currently Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: paul

how long is a very very long time?

is there a possibility that the amounts of nano silver particles
could remain in the body providing the benefits of silver for a very very long time?

are they concerned that people will never get ill because
of the nano silver staying in their bodies and that is what the opposition is focusing on while using the inability to biodegrade as a reason to not use the nano silver?

just curious.


Oh you will have the wonderous anti-bacteria effects of the nano-silver for your entire life (the half life of biodegradability is well beyond your life expactancy). Down side is you will be long dead from toxicity.

Here is a starter background for you

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3118686/


Note that in the medical industry the recommendations

"The biocompatible coatings improve the performance of these nanoparticles, reduce their toxicity, and do not result in negative effects on cells. The emphasis of this study is to use biodegradable and biocompatible nanobiomaterials."

The problem is there is no such pressure put on general industry.

This whole thing is a landmine for every side and view. Infact as I will show you even biodegrability will not solve some issues and I have had to rethink my position as of march.

So to lead you into the maze you need to start by providing views and lets seee if you can navigate thru the problems science is throwing up.

So how do you view GM food and how do you view the above gold nanoparticles.


Edited by Orac (08/10/12 04:30 AM)
_________________________
I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.

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