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Hello all.
I no longer have the time to discuss and provide written responses for each sentence in the Bible and other Ancient Texts.
So I will just tell you what has been discovered, investigated, and confirmed.
I normally do this in person, but here I will first write an introduction then talk to you via a video presentation.

Religious people have been MISLEAD for over 5,000 years.
Documented accounts by their prophets with ‘gods, God, or Angels’ were encounters with human time travellers - NOT divine supernatural beings.

So in the Bible and other ancient sacred texts, where it says ‘an Angel’, now know they were referring to a human time traveller.

Queensland researcher RONALD PEGG Discovered and Confirmed that at least two modern cd-roms were seen back in the past and their contents have been described in Ancient Texts by certain named prophets.
Just quickly…
In a Sumerian Account they were named Tablet of Destiny and Tablet of Fate.
In Egyptian Mythology they were known as the RA-Disk and the Aten disk.
Moses called them the Tablets of Testimony and named them the Urim and Thummim.
Nostradamus was visited by time travellers and called the cd-roms Wheel of Destiny of Nations and Wheel of Time.
The Queen of France called them ‘magic circles’ and the information was seen on a ‘magic mirror’ (the monitor).
The rod of Moses and the wand of Nostradamus = a computer’s mouse and cable.

The 'End Time' Book with Seven Seals as documented by Daniel and John (Old Testament and Revelation respectively) is specifically referring to one of the two cd-roms. (Full report via link in my signature.)

Ezekiel, Daniel, and John each describe their encounter with time travellers: and what they saw and heard from the cd-roms are what are religiously known as ‘dream’ and ‘vision’ prophecies.

The ‘future history’ (aka. prophecy) documented in ancient texts is also taken from the second cd-rom.

AGNOSTICS are WRONG as there IS evidence that there is/was No God *
(* The Abrahamic GOD as documented in the Old Testament at Genesis 1:1. I was explaining this earlier)

I have confirmed Pegg’s work: there is and was no GOD.

ATHEISTS are WRONG
the Creation Theory IS a scientific theory - as such it has now been proven False.

Genesis Chapter One is an account by Moses of the start up sequence of pictures from one of the cd-roms shown to him by a time traveller. (see video below)

I have confirmed Pegg’s work: there was no ‘Creation’ as religiously perceived: those descriptions are from the cd-roms.
The Creation vs Evolution debate has been resolved.

The voice of GOD heard by Moses was of the male narrator from a second cd-rom.

Originally Posted By: Ellis
…what was the "burning bush'? Is there any rational real world evidence for this curiosity? It's an oddity I have to admit. Any suggestions?
The Moses and the Burning Bush story is an account of what and who was seen on this second cd-rom’s Persian Gulf War picture.

KJV Bible reads as (Exodus 3:2) “And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush and he looked and behold the bush burned with fire and the bush was not consumed”.

Correcting for syntax, that verse originally read as and meant: ‘A fire flame above the Angel of the LORD: appearing in the middle - Bush: Looked and beheld - Bush was burning with fire: Bush was not consumed.’

Original Hebrew meaning of “Angel” is simply ‘a human messenger, a deputy or envoy’.

The Hebrew word LORD (YH-WH) is the ancient vocalization of the name of the United Nations when sounded as ‘U-N’. The leters ‘UN’ are seen on the disk and the words ‘United Nations’ are spoken.

The ‘angel of the Lord’ ie. the messenger/envoy of the UN (during the Persian Gulf War) was General Norman Schwarzkopf.

On the cd-rom’s PGW picture, is an image of General Norman Schwarzkopf and above him - is what appears to be a red flame. (It is actually the colours of Iraq and Kuwait on the map, but it does look like a flame.)

In the middle of the picture is president George Bush. He is burning with fiery rage.

A still screen shot of this picture can be found at the 5:22 mark on the video below.

Here is the link to the VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/v/hqQKH66BAR4

Here is a report on Genesis Chapter One: http://www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com.au/news/genesis.html

Follow the link in my signature for more information.
Thanks, Eddy Pengelly

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I forgot to mention that on the associated website is another video entitled 'Time Travel Encounters throughout History - the Concealed Story within Ancient Texts'.

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Fascinating explanation Eddy. It's such a bizarre episode, not the bush burning itself but the voice etc. And why?

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Eddy I guess I am an agnostic because I can't really say I have been given a chance to hear the religious side of the argument given my birth country.

However not even I as an agnostic thinks that any of what you have described makes any sense and most almost passes as humour although I am guessing you did not intend as such.

Have you ever actually thought seriously about your absurd claim, assume you can travel in time. Why would you take a CD-ROM back to pre-BC times what would be the point and how would they have ever seen anything on a CD.

Assuming you could travel in time what would be the point of creating a god illussion or confusing the matter in such a way as you suggest.

Finally even assuming it was a time traveller you still haven't answered the question of how and why life is possible the time traveller had to come from somewhere so we still have god creating the universe as a possibility.

So far from settling the answer your argument just sets the argument into a new if somewhat absurd setting.

So I guess you fail miserably at convincing me eddy.

Last edited by Orac; 06/29/12 02:29 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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You are so right Orac. Time travelling in pre-BC times would require a ship load of batteries!

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Originally Posted By: Orac
However not even I as an agnostic thinks that any of what you have described makes any sense and most almost passes as humour although I am guessing you did not intend as such.
So far from settling the answer your argument just sets the argument into a new if somewhat absurd setting.
So I guess you fail miserably at convincing me eddy.
Point taken.
Unfortunately, in presenting only two brief extracts from only two ancient texts (Genesis and Exodus) in the OP, the scope of Pegg’s discoveries and findings are not immediately apparent.

I would have thought the videos would have put it all into perspective.
There are in fact over 30 ancient texts that contain the descriptions of modern cd-roms.
To list them all here and to explain them all is just too complex.
Thus the link in my signature, it provides links to resources that enable people to begin to understand what Pegg has found.
Maybe I should have opened my announcement with the following video.

Originally Posted By: Orac
Assuming you could travel in time what would be the point of creating a god illussion or confusing the matter in such a way as you suggest.
Why would you take a CD-ROM back to pre-BC times what would be the point and how would they have ever seen anything on a CD.
The video entitled “Time Travel Encounters throughout History - the Concealed Story within Ancient Texts” addresses some of these issues.
If you didn’t follow the link, here it is:
http://youtu.be/uuCZTBFC35M

A brief text extract is available for reading here: http://www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com.au/news/release_2012may.html

Originally Posted By: Orac
Finally even assuming it was a time traveller you still haven't answered the question of how and why life is possible the time traveller had to come from somewhere so we still have god creating the universe as a possibility.
No. Where religious people cite ancient texts as ‘referring to their God’ - those passages and accounts are of time travel encounters where the contents of the cd-roms were shown to ancient people and they were told to write it all down.
Ezekiel is one of those ancient people who recorded their personal first hand account of the content of the cd-roms.
Brief written explanation: http://www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com.au/ref/ezekiel.html

A video presentation shows some of what is explained: http://www.youtube.com/v/AhhT92Js2LU

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So basically you agree with me then even if I accept all your so called evidence and time travel and every other whacked out theory you have eliminated all the religious texts and the like but you still fail at the post title ... YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN THERE IS NO GOD AND NO CREATION.

I am not even religious and I can see the flaw in your logic.


So more correctly your statement for the title of the post should be all religious texts are wrong and you have an explaination of why.

That is a long way short of no god and no creation.


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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Originally Posted By: Orac
YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN THERE IS NO GOD AND NO CREATION

Religious people draw their CONCLUSION from Genesis Chapter One that it is about their GOD and their CREATION Theory - with no evidence to back up their claim, only the fall-back of ‘have Faith’.

Ronald Pegg has presented evidence that the GOD in Genesis Chapter One relates to the picture of Deities on the Ancients cd-rom AND the whole ‘creation sequence of descriptions’ match to the opening sequence of screen pictures from the Ancients cd-rom.

In case you missed it the second time too - the Book of Moses called Genesis, the descriptions in chapter one, are describing pictures, images, and particularly the opening sequence of pictures from the 1995 produced French cd-rom entitled ‘Ancient Civilizations of the Mediterranean’.

How is this not showing that what is written in Genesis Chapter One is not about a God nor a Creation ?

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Originally Posted By: Eddy Pengelly

Religious people draw their CONCLUSION from Genesis Chapter One that it is about their GOD and their CREATION Theory - with no evidence to back up their claim, only the fall-back of ‘have Faith’.

Ronald Pegg has presented evidence that the GOD in Genesis Chapter One relates to the picture of Deities on the Ancients cd-rom AND the whole ‘creation sequence of descriptions’ match to the opening sequence of screen pictures from the Ancients cd-rom.

In case you missed it the second time too - the Book of Moses called Genesis, the descriptions in chapter one, are describing pictures, images, and particularly the opening sequence of pictures from the 1995 produced French cd-rom entitled ‘Ancient Civilizations of the Mediterranean’.

How is this not showing that what is written in Genesis Chapter One is not about a God nor a Creation ?


Again even if I accept everything you say without question all you have shown is the book of genesis is wrong you have not shown that GOD does not exist or creation is false.

Only fundementalists believe in the literal translation of the book of genesis because science already says it is wrong and most religious groups have had to deal with what to make of genesis.

I doubt your fantastic fairytale which "proves" to you that the book of Genesis is wrong is going to shake the religious people they have been dealing with the problem of Genesis since Darwin's time.

I am an extremely logical person call it my background so again I put to you how does some time traveller and CD-ROM's popping up in history prove to me that god does not exist and that god did not create the universe ... I don't follow the conclusion?


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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Ed

Quote:
the Book of Moses called Genesis, the descriptions in chapter one, are describing pictures, images, and particularly the opening sequence of pictures from the 1995 produced French cd-rom entitled ‘Ancient Civilizations of the Mediterranean’.


I dont suppose that the French programer who made the
program had any access to the words written in Genesis while
he was programming the program did he?

in 1995 there wouldnt be any Bibles available for the programmer to use to make the program from would there?

because if there were any Bibles available to use as a reference then he could have intentionally designed the program to make people think that his program had somehow
traveled back in time.

he may have known about the picture of the men standing around looking at the object that appears to be a cd-rom and the egyptian hieroglyphics that look like a cd-rom and the cd-rom player.

isnt it entirely possible that this cd-rom was a hoax?








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Originally Posted By: Orac
Again even if I accept everything you say without question all you have shown is the book of genesis is wrong you have not shown that GOD does not exist or creation is false.
The ‘God’ at Genesis 1:1 IS the God which Religious people say is God.
To them, Genesis 1:1 is the God of their Faith, AND this same God is the same God mentioned elsewhere in the Bible, and is the same God credited with the Creation.
So let us review.
Religious people state Genesis 1:1 as the first place in the Bible that mentions their God.
This God was the ‘one supernatural being’ who did the Creation.
This is what Religious people conclude from the words in Genesis 1:1.
This God is the same supernatural being mentioned in the rest of the Bible.

IF that word in Genesis 1:1 is found to NOT be referring to a supernatural single being, then like a pack of cards, their whole claim and argument falls down. No God - No Creation - No God in the rest of the Bible.

Ronald Pegg found that the ‘God’ in Genesis 1:1 is not about a single supernatural being. Thus a single supernatural being did not form the creation of the world.
Ronald Pegg found that Genesis Chapter One is a series of descriptions of the pictures from the Ancients cd-rom. Thus no creation of the world as perceived by Religious people.
Ronald Pegg found that other chapters attributed by Moses contain historical descriptions taken from the Grolier cd-rom and other modern history books. Thus other parts of the Bible are not about the past deeds of a perceived God.

The first chapter in the Bible is not the only Bible text that describe the contents of modern history books and cd-roms taken back to the past by time travellers. All these other Case Studies augment and confirm Ronald Pegg’s finding regarding Genesis.

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Originally Posted By: paul
…because if there were any Bibles available to use as a reference then he could have intentionally designed the program to make people think that his program had somehow traveled back in time.
Others have asked this or commented in a similar way…

“I dont see how this can be purported to be evidence of anything more than the CD graphics based on ancient text”

One set of matching details could just be a coincidence, and could be the result of the makers of the cd-rom using one particular set of ancient descriptions as their source and inspiration.
Maybe also two or three (or four) could be passed off as 'just coincidences'.
But ten ancient sets of details from different time periods and countries matching is beyond a coincidence.

The same set of descriptions turn up in many ancient stories where most are associated with a messenger turning up in a bright light (or 'dream') carrying a stone of testimony (aka. wheel, tablet, plate, or disc) which tells of future things and provides 'visions'. These extra associated characteristics indicate that the same source was viewed by all the ancient writers and story tellers by the same means - and not that any one ancient story was the source used by the makers of the cd-rom for their imagery.

Regarding people's own conclusions, we are often asked, concerning the observed evidence from these experiments as being identical or very close to the Ancients cd-rom pictures...

"Is the imagery, on the cd-rom, evidence of someone or a group of people travelling back in time and showing the ancient people the images from it, or was the Ancients cd-rom created by people that have read any or all of the texts? They may have only been inspired, even subconsciously, to make the cd-rom the same or very similar to what is in the ancient texts."
If the descriptions in the Atlantis dialogues by Plato only matched to the cd-rom imagery, then, yes, you would have to conclude that the makers of the cd-rom used the Atlantis descriptions as inspiration.

If the descriptions in the Bablylonian stories only matched to the cd-rom imagery, then, yes, you would have to conclude that the makers of the cd-rom used Bablylonian descriptions as inspiration.

If...Akkadian…Aboriginal Dreamtime Stories...North American Indian Mythologies...Buddhism & Hindu Understanding...Old Testament...New Testament...Qur'an...Book of Mormon...each only matched, then, yes...

But all of the above cultures that DO match to the imagery from the Ancients cd-rom are NOT part of the history contained on that cd-rom. So why would the makers use imagery from over ten other cultures that they are not presenting on the cd-rom ?

The civilizations presented are from around the Mediterranean region from betwen 2000 BCE and 476 CE, being Etruria, Carthage, Roman Empire, Greece, Phoenicia and Egypt.
(The Egyptian section only presents seven video shows, and not pages of pictures.)

The Etrurian section shows things Eturian…
The Roman section shows things Roman…
The Greece section shows things Greek…
The Phoenician section shows things Phoenician…
The Carthage section shows things Carthagian…
…and NOT anything to do with Altantis, Babylon, Akkadia, Aboriginal Dreamtime Stories...North American Indian Mythologies...Buddhism & Hindu Understanding...Old Testament...New Testament...Qur'an, nor Book of Mormon.

Specifically...
Regarding: "Is the imagery, on the cd-rom, evidence of someone or a group of people traveling back in time and showing the ancient people the images from it."

Based upon ten years of investigations - we believe yes. In the Old Testament (Ezekiel), New Testament (Revelation), and Qur'an (Mohammed) encounters where the cd-rom imagery is described, there is an Angel reported as being present, and in the Bible accounts, this angel has a 'sealed book with seven seals' that is opened, and from which 'visions' are seen by the prophet. That prophet's descriptions of these 'visions' are of the contents of the Ancients cd-rom.

We conclude that this 'angel' is some form of time traveller.

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The birth of a new Religion...

The CD Rom God.

Reminds me of a scene from one of the old Planet of the Apes Movies where the mutated humans who lived underground worshiped a nuclear device. They built a chapel around it and praised the Glory of the Bomb.

It won't be long before the few who have no interest in the creation of the Universe or the emergence of man and his connection with it will give way to building temples with CD Roms instead of Spires and Crosses as their crowns.

Interesting how people get stuck on interpretations of events rather than the creation of all events and their origin

I don't suppose anyone really has any idea what the angel/Time Traveler was trying to tell anyone other than there was a future and he came from it with his or their beliefs in reality.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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I agree with you Tutor Turtle ... Eddy has substitued us believing in one god for another because we are now just supposed to believe his crazy CD_ROM god and story ... and we must accept your proof on faith.

Sorry Eddy you are more crazy than any religious person I know.

You also make religion and god about the book of genesis ...
NEWSFLASH Eddy not all religious people think that the book of genesis is be all and end all of what the bible says infact I would say it is a minority who care about the literal translation of genesis.


I am a non believer in god and you can't convince me Eddy I think that should tell you alot about your argument. Infact I don't think you have convinced or interested a single person so I guess it's back to the drawing board for you.


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Quote:
Infact I don't think you have convinced or interested a single person


that may be what YOU think but that does not mean that you can speak for the forum members , Im actually interested in getting to the bottom of this.

i have a few concerns.

1) it may be that someone transported a cd-rom and a computer and a generator and gasoline and himself back in time.

2) he would also take aircraft with him or a aircraft carrier
so that he would have enough fuel to travel the world to share the contents of the cd-rom.

3) if the time traveler was from the future why would he take such an old bulky computer ?
why not just take a tablet with a usb drive?

4) why not just his cell phone with the images and video or the program loaded into the phone?

5) I had the program you are referencing back in the 90's

I no longer have it , I left it somewhere and cant find it.

you said that the cd is mentioned in the bible as a book with 7 seals.

how does a book translate into a cd-rom?

you remember when the very first cd-rom's came out dont you , did you think that a cd-rom was a book or anything resembling a book?

referencing your reference from the bible was this book seen in a vision or not?

I think there are many things remaining to be discussed about the cd-rom time traveler belief.























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Take a moment to think of what we are being asked to consider here. The scientific community seems generally to accept that if past-directed time travel is possible, no one would be able to travel back to a time before the invention of the first time machine. If we accept that someone travelled back to around 2,000 BC, then an appropriate time machine must already have been invented at that time. Considering the rate at which technology proliferates, how likely is it that past-directed time travel has been around for 4,000 years without our having seen more evidence of it?


There never was nothing.
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There might be a future with more sophisticated sciences and possibly a reckoning force to deal with indiscriminate time travelers attempting to use time travel for personal gain.


Ya know I might agree with the whole idea that there was no God. At least within the superstitious terms that most people tend to apply the label.. But no creation?

There still tends to be a lack in definition of What God IS and any corresponding definition to Creation either inclusive of separate from the definition of God.

The Time Travel thing is entertaining.. Wonder where the Egyptian Glyph came from. Maybe its a Photoshop add on?


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I have steered around the time travel issue because it gets a bit complicated to explain to layman but Bill S is quite correct this sort of thing would almost certainly be precluded by QM theory.

QM theory has become quite explicit about the grandfather paradox in recent years and says it can't happen which is what this is an attempt to invoke.

Why because when something is observed or known it is locked into this reality. If you want a background to this at a layman level read (http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/are_you_real_quantum_mechanics-90221)

The bottom line is if you travel backwards in time you can only do things which are consistant with the known facts of today and this reality if you want to come back to this point and reality.

So what happens if you did travel back and attempt to kill grandfather well QM has a nasty answer for you most likely you disintergrate or split into a different reality.

Theoretically we are convinced of the no deleting Quantum information rule and last year it was put to the test and theory was shown to be right (http://phys.org/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html). You will see more complicated experiments on this in the next few years.

So time travel why not excluded by QM makes it very very dangerous for the traveller because the reality they start from has a set of known facts and altering any of them makes the traveller inconsistant with that start reality and unable to go back to it.

So as Bill S says at a science level your idea is in deep trouble as well.


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Originally Posted By: paul
if the time traveler was from the future why would he take such an old bulky computer ? why not just take a tablet with a usb drive?
Hi Paul. Here is a link to some FAQs which include an answer to your question: http://www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com.au/ref/faq.html

Originally Posted By: paul
you said that the cd is mentioned in the bible as a book with 7 seals. how does a book translate into a cd-rom?
“A roll of a book” (Ezekiel 2:9).
English meaning of "roll" is 'to rotate' (as in a rotary motion of an object around its own axis).
This is describing a compact disk that spins around (rolls).

But we need to look at the etymology of the English word “roll”. In circa.1225CE it came to mean "rolled-up piece of parchment or paper", from O.Fr. rolle, from M.L. rotulus "a roll of paper", from L. rotula "small wheel", dim. of rota "wheel".
So back when the early religious Latin speaking Romans were translating the Hebrew Bible, their understanding of what we now call a “roll” was a ‘small wheel’. ie. an ancient description of a compact disk.

btw. The religious Romans later employed this ‘sacred small wheel’ as the concept (and exact shape) behind the wafer of the Roman Mass (being the small wafer with the hole in the middle).

This video may also provide answers regarding cd being book with 7 seals: http://youtu.be/-00XueKMyRQ
Then,
here is a link to the Book with Seven Seals Report: http://www.tt2012.com.au/map_scroll/index.html

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I am sorry I am still astounded that any sane person takes that garbage seriously would you like a critique of the problems with it :-)

I actually wondering if this was nothing more than a troll exercise because so much of that website is scientifically wrong.

Last edited by Orac; 07/05/12 11:24 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Orac
I have steered around the time travel issue because it gets a bit complicated to explain to layman but Bill S is quite correct this sort of thing would almost certainly be precluded by QM theory.

QM theory has become quite explicit about the grandfather paradox in recent years and says it can't happen which is what this is an attempt to invoke.

Why because when something is observed or known it is locked into this reality. If you want a background to this at a layman level read (http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/are_you_real_quantum_mechanics-90221)
The Conundrum of Consciousness:
Though perhaps counterintuitive, consciousness cannot be easily sidelined from scientific examination. Doctors have found a person’s state of mind can have significant effects on their body’s ability to heal itself.
While that anecdotal observation has not provided enough solid evidence to cause every doctor to prescribe meditation as a form of medicine, quantum physicists have found definitively that at the sub-atomic level, the act of observation actually affects the reality being observed. This fact became known as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle: one cannot observe a phenomenon without changing or affecting it.
Some physicists have wondered whether the universe in some strange sense might be brought into being by the participation of those consciousnesses that have chosen to participate. The term ‘participator’ then has become an incontrovertible new concept given by quantum mechanics. It strikes down the idea of passive observation, given by classical theory, and shows that the vital act is the act of participation. In this way, there can no longer be a scientist who stands safely behind a thick glass wall and watches what happens in an isolated manner from the observed experiment without influencing the outcome simply by observing it.
Quantum mechanics insists such isolation cannot occur.
Nobel Prize-winning physicist Wolfgang Pauli described that from within one’s inner center our psyche seems to move outward, experiencing, influencing, and even creating the physical world through the act of participation.
Thus physicists have found themselves, through the study of quantum mechanics, to be in the unanticipated field of the study of the structure of consciousness.
Christian de Quincey likened this phenomenon to being in the odd position of having to confront daily the indisputable fact of one’s own consciousness, and yet having no way of being able to explain it.
What is consciousness and where does it come from? That is a philosophical question that dates back thousands of years. We can conclude consciousness is not composed of matter. But we have only assumed thus far that matter does not possess consciousness.
We must still ask, ‘From whence then does consciousness originate?’
Greek philosopher Descartes was famous for his ability to doubt any given theory or philosophy. He could doubt what people said. He could doubt the validity of what his eyes showed him of the world. He could doubt himself; his own thoughts and feelings. He could even doubt that he was present in a physical body. But the one thing that he could not doubt was the fact that he was doubting. This revealed his one and only certainty: he was thinking. Descartes thus concluded if he was thinking, he had to be a conscious, experiencing being. As he put it in Latin, Cogito, ergo sum: I think, therefore I am.
This was and is the paradox of consciousness. Its existence is quite undeniable, and yet it remains totally inexplicable.
For the materialist meta-paradigm, consciousness is a monumental anomaly.
Religious people may claim God is the creator and the source of all creation. But physicists might say the same of consciousness.
Philosophically, the implications of quantum mechanics are mind blowing. Not only does quantum mechanics insist that we influence our reality, but also, at least to some degree, we actually create our reality.
Because quantum mechanics tells us that we can know either the momentum of a particle or its position, but not both, we are forced to choose which of these two properties we will want to determine.
Metaphysically, this is very close to saying that we will create those specific properties because we have chosen to measure them. In other words, it is possible that we can create something at a specific position, like a particle, for example, simply because we were intent on determining some thing existed at that position.
Returning to the discussion of conscious’ interpretation of the physical world, it can even be argued that our entire physical world – everything we can see, hear, taste, smell, and touch; as well as our private, inner world – every thought, feeling, fantasy, intimation, hope, and fear – is a form that consciousness has taken on for our benefit. Thus, consciousness becomes both the source and creator of everything we know.
Consider the concept of correlation. Things are not correlated in nature; they simply are. Correlation then is a concept that humans use to describe connections between objects or events that we perceive.
For example, there is no concept or word, ‘correlation,’ except as is created by people. This is because only people use words and concepts, and ‘correlation’ is a concept. Likewise, particles are also correlations. If people weren’t here to construct concepts, none would exist.
In other words, without people, or more specifically without experiencing consciousness, there wouldn’t be any particles!
This train of thought could be likened to the idea of multiple possible outcomes, or wave functions, of a photon and all realities connected to it – the detector/measuring system, the “observing”/participating technician, etc.

When one intends to follow and measure the path of an electron, the possible outcome of the wave function is unknown until a perception is made and mathematically, the wave function collapses. The scientist thus realizes where the electron hit the detector plate once he determined he wanted to make a measurement, but in the absence of that intention, the electron could have seemingly struck anywhere or indeed, nowhere. The wave function collapsed because a perception was made as intended by consciousness. Looking
outward from the photon to the detector to the technician to the supervisor, we could continue until we include the entire universe. But who is looking at the universe, or alternately, how is the universe being actualized?
To find the answer to this question, we must come full circle. All indications are that we are actualizing our universe. Since we are part of the universe, the universe must be self-actualizing. This train of thought compares closely with many aspects of Buddhism. This idea could well become one of the more important contributions of quantum physics to future models of consciousness.
Geoffrey Chew noted one important aspect of quantum theory, known as the hadron bootstrap conjecture, is the logical conclusion that the existence of consciousness, along with all other aspects of nature, is necessary for self-consistency of the whole.
In other words, consciousness (i.e. the light) creates matter, and without which nothing could exist. Consciousness can thus also transform matter and make matter what it wills.
Quantum Field Theory:
With this last statement, it should come as no surprise that some quantum physicists would take the next step and consider the idea that physical reality is essentially non-substantial, but rather a momentary manifestation generated by some underlying energy or influence. This idea is the basis of a branch of quantum physics, known as quantum field theory. Theories, of course, are unproven ideas that tend to have some measure of support, whether mathematically or experimentally, but may not have been definitively proven or accepted by the scientific community at large. Quantum field theory contends underlying and interacting fields, similar to an electro-magnetic field, permeate all of reality, and the fields’ interactions seem particle-like because fields interact both instantaneously and in very minute points of space.
This idea originated from the realization that photons are also electromagnetic waves. Since those waves are also vibrating fields, quantum physicists concluded the photons must be manifestations of electromagnetic fields. Hence they coined the idea of a ‘quantum field,’ or a field that can take on the form of particles, i.e. ‘quanta.’ This was an entirely new concept that has since been extended to describe all subatomic particles and their interactions with one another, where each type of particle corresponded with a different field. Within these quantum field theories, the classical contrasts between solid particles and the space surrounding them is overcome. A quantum field is seen as the fundamental physical entity on which physical reality is formed; a continuous medium that is present everywhere throughout space. Particles, then, become merely local condensations of the quantum field; concentrations of energy that can come and go, losing their individual character and dissolving into the underlying field in an instant.

As noted, there is significant evidence for field theory including a realization that Isaac Newton’s concept of the void of space was false. Quantum physicists determined particles were constantly being spontaneously created and annihilated in vacuums without any nucleons or other interacting particles having originally been present.
According to field theory, such should be expected to occur forever, without end, because the fields permeate all of reality – regardless of the presence of matter or a seeming void.

Another laboratory observation provides a similar oddity for field theory to consider. When an electron passes through a photographic plate, a visible ‘track’ seemingly marks its track through space. This track, under close examination, is actually a series of dots. Each dot is actually a grain of silver formed by the electron’s interaction with atoms in the photographic plate.
When the track is closely examined under a microscope, it may look something like this:
...o...................o......o..o
o.....o.o.o.....o..o......o
.............o
Because the scientist expected to see the track of the movement of an electron through the photographic plate, the scientist may assume the bubbles correspond with one and the same electron. However, this assumption would be a mistake.

Quantum physics tells us the same thing Buddhists have been saying for more than two millennia:
Connections between the dots are a product of our imaginations and are not really there. In rigorous terms, proving the moving object to be a singular particle with an independent existence is an un-provable assumption.
Quantum field theory might suggest instead that each of the bubbles was an independent manifestation of interacting fields that just happened to correspond with an anticipated track of a sub-atomic particle that had been expected by an observer, the scientist, to occur at a certain place and time.
Field theory provides a further basis for at least two other mind-blowing developments in quantum mechanics:
super-luminal connections and Bell’s theorem.
Super-luminal connections:
Super-luminal connections, known as the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect, have been hypothesized and mathematically proven through the realization that two sub-atomic particles may be instantaneously connected such that their rotational spin on an axis will always match their pair.
Consider if the particles were placed into two separate boxes, and then an outside influence such as an electromagnetic field were applied to one box to change the spin of that box’s particle. The particle in the other box has been experimentally proven to change immediately in response to the stimulus applied to the paired particle, despite their physical separation.
Now take that idea a step further and remove one box to an impossibly far distance. When the experiment is repeated, the instantaneous response of the particle at the farther box still occurs and thus proves that a connection between two particles has occurred faster than the speed of light.
Light has a specific speed, taking a certain amount of time to move between two fixed points, but the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect is instantaneous, regardless of distance.
This discovery in quantum physics implies telepathy or other super-luminal connections that provide for the instantaneous transfer of information may not only exist, but are indeed a part of everyday life.
Bell’s theorem proves that for quantum theory to work, it requires connections that appear to resemble telepathic communications.
The concept of Oneness:
The pioneers of quantum physics observed a strange ‘connectedness’ among quantum phenomena during their experiments in the early twentieth century.
Then in 1964, J. S. Bell, a physicist at the Switzerland-based European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) zeroed in on this strange connectedness, creating a new mathematical proof, known as Bell’s theorem. Bell’s theorem proved that if the statistical predictions of quantum theory were correct, then some of our commonsense ideas about the world were profoundly mistaken: at a deep and fundamental level, the ‘separate parts’ of the universe were connected in an intimate and immediate way.
Bell’s theorem states there is no such thing as ‘separate parts.’ In other words, everything in the universe is connected in an intimate and immediate way that was previously claimed only by mystics and other scientifically-objectionable persons.
Bell’s work found that either the statistical predictions of quantum theory or the principle of local causes (i.e. cause and effect) was false. It did not say which one was false, but only that both of them could not be true. Physicists Stapp, Clauser, and Friedman, confirmed that the statistical predictions of quantum theory were indeed correct. The startling conclusion was inescapable:
The principle of local causes must be false!
However, if the principle of local causes was false, and hence, the world was not the way it appeared to be, then one must wonder what is the ‘true nature’ of our world?

Physicist David Bohm concluded when there was no separate parts in our world, i.e. locality failed, and so the idea that events were autonomous happenings must be an illusion.
Instead, parts must be seen to have immediate, unbreakable connections, in which their dynamic relationships depend on the state of the system as a whole. Thus, one is led to a new notion of unbroken wholeness throughout the entire universe.
This denies the classical idea of the world being analyzable by its ‘separate,’ independently existent parts.

Bell’s theorem may be the most important single work in the history of physics, and has direct applicability to the connection between the hard science of quantum physics and the philosophical science of spirituality.

When one achieves the enlightened state, a common description of the spiritual experience is that of an all-pervading Unity. The concept of separation between entities no longer applies: We are all One and everything is but a manifestation of that Unity.
The Source of that manifestation seems beyond description and is at the heart of the experience itself.

The Source is simply That Which Is, or perhaps more accurately, All That Is. Everything is thus a manifestation of All That Is.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Bit too philosophical for me but the basics are correct :=)


I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.
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Originally Posted By: Orac
Bit too philosophical for me but the basics are correct :=)


Before I actually learned to work on a car it was easy to know the names of the parts and what they were for. How they worked together was a matter of investigation and experience.

Some are content to drive the damn thing and take it in when it stops working to have someone else deal with it.

Such is life....


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Quote:
“A roll of a book” (Ezekiel 2:9).
English meaning of "roll" is 'to rotate' (as in a rotary motion of an object around its own axis).
This is describing a compact disk that spins around (rolls).


before there were printing presses they used to make books that
"roll" or scroll , they call them scrolls.




Im leaning towards the idea that what Ezekiel saw was a scroll.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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Yes, that is one option.
But when associated evidence is investigated, the ‘contents’ as documented by Ezekiel, of the ‘rotating scroll’ with which he had an encounter, describe the pictures from the Ancients cd-rom.

Thus the 'roll of a book' = a compact disk.

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Quote:
So back when the early religious Latin speaking Romans were translating the Hebrew Bible, their understanding of what we now call a “roll” was a ‘small wheel’. ie. an ancient description of a compact disk.


...or the disc shaped stop on each end of a stick on which a "book" was rolled. Each of those would be a disc with a hole in it.

Quote:
The religious Romans later employed this ‘sacred small wheel’ as the concept (and exact shape) behind the wafer of the Roman Mass (being the small wafer with the hole in the middle).


A Roman Catholic communion wafer with a hole in it; there’s a novel idea! Do they have them in Australia?


There never was nothing.
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