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#4283 11/01/05 10:23 PM
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How was ?time? created?

In various posts by the members the Big Bang is discussed as being the origin of time- in other words they say that both time and the universe originated (were created) as a part of the Big Bang. This potentially refers to time as an object with some material substance that may be susceptible to compressing, stretching, twisting and bending, to mention just a few possibilities. This appears fanciful to me.
A brief response that Einstein?s theories offer this conclusion will be insufficient as a real life explanation for me.
jjw

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#4284 11/04/05 03:56 AM
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You misunderstand not just time but all dimensions.

Time is no different from length, or width, or heigh. Would you write "How was height created?" I would hope not. And the same lack of value in the question exists whether referring to height, or length, or time.

If I want to know where something was I say it was 'here'. When I want to know when it was there I way it was 'then'.

In other words ... time was not created. And many might argue that time does not even exist. Except as a derived property.


DA Morgan
#4285 11/05/05 12:42 AM
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Thank you DA.

I thought some, possibly you as well, offered that both Time and the Universe were "created" with or by the Big Bang. So Ok, I may have miss seen, it is possible. I may also have not had the proper perspective to know that "created" was not intended as the common word used commonly.
Thank you for the response.
jw

#4286 11/05/05 01:08 AM
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DA:

On second thought, DA Morgan I take issue with your generalized statement that I misunderstand time and ?all dimensions?. You are a little self-serving in your rapid reproach.

I will find the quote if you wish wherein you offered that Time was a part of the Big Bang and that you think neither time nor the Universe existed before that expansive event. So which dimension is being discussed at this point? You call it created and I call it created. You want me to think in terms of a specialized type of ?created? then please be explicit.

Now, your attention to my potential ignorance of which I was unaware sparks some special knowledge in your favored attention to me. You must know things about me of which I am unaware, perhaps a sign of further ignorance on my part. Please let loose and share your insight that needs expression. Some individuals feel so secure in their beliefs that they indulge in a lot of ?one-up-man-ship? when considering the thoughts of others. It is entertaining in a way because some stupid person might think that the orator created the theory or the foundation for the theory or possibly improved on the original theory- instead of a student of it.
Cheers!
jjw

#4287 11/07/05 04:08 AM
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Saying "time was created" at the moment of the Big Bang (more properly TBB w/ inflation) is appropriately for the lay-public but not necessarily as correct as your follow-up question indicated was appropriate.

When one indicates time was created by the Big Bang what one is actually saying is that following the Big Bang was the first instant at which the dimension was measurable: Same goes for length, height, and depth.

But having said that this was when/where a value could first be measured is not the same as saying "it was created."


DA Morgan
#4288 11/07/05 07:47 PM
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In the singularity which was the central point for the Big Bang, time did not exist, nor did the laws of physics. Before that, since the fundamental laws of physics would break down, time itself could not be defined. After the big bang, and the separation of the unified forces into the 4 as we know now, time as a dimension can be considered.

#4289 11/08/05 12:46 AM
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Thank you both:

I think the question did prompt answers consistent with what I would guess but now I/we have a defined type of "creation" that I can visualize much better, albiet with reluctance.
jjw

#4290 11/11/05 04:26 PM
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I had a conversation about ?God? the other night at the pub with my girlfriend (the things your do after 1 too many pints)- I proposed that perhaps all time happens ?at once? and we simply experience it in a serial fashion because of the ?space time?. She found this difficult to imagine and asked me to define what time is and how is it created. I was really quite stumped and babbled about the relationship with matter and time.

Now, I?m a total lay person and all I do is take the nibbles of knowledge I know and simply build the pretty pictures in my head. My (massively limited) understanding is that time is directly related to matter and altered by gravitational forces (as kinda hinted at when you imagine the quantum world where everything begins to get really weird because of the minuscule influence matter/gravity has on it).

Just as a two dimensional being could not possibly imagine a three dimensional universe: isn?t it possible that before the ?big bang?, time did not exist? The unfathomable mass of the universe (including that elusive dark matter) could be solely responsible for keeping a linear ?perceived? time track in place?

Any thoughts always appreciated!

#4291 11/12/05 01:45 AM
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Badjelly asks:
"isn?t it possible that before the ?big bang?, time did not exist?"

Not only possible ... probable ... very likely. In fact I would say far more likely than not.


DA Morgan
#4292 11/13/05 03:48 AM
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Member Rated:
posted November 11, 2005 08:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Badjelly asks:
"isn?t it possible that before the ?big bang?, time did not exist?"

DA Morgan offers:
Not only possible ... probable ... very likely. In fact I would say far more likely than not.

Conclusion:
We are not quite sure; we are working on it; I would like to be more diffinitive but not on my list right now; probable is better than maybe; and all of this is quite iron tight- almost.
jjw

#4293 11/13/05 02:39 PM
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jjw004 wrote:
"Conclusion:"

But didn't have one so he just wasted bandwidth.

This may come as a shock to you since knowledge is not something you value ... but most fundamental questions have answers determined with a high degree of certainty ... but that does not make them absolute fact.

To quote Einstein:
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

Or to quote H.L. Mencken:
"Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. .... The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as
in all others. His culture is based on "I am not too sure."

Or perhaps Voltaire:
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."


DA Morgan
#4294 11/13/05 07:37 PM
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Of course we are never sure, we can't be we're only human on a subject such as this.

But to our understanding, because the laws of physics and space-time itself would break down in a singularity such as the beginning of the Big Bang, there isn't a lot of point in trying to ascertain what happened before it, as we would try to imagine what happened with the laws of physics we have now, which would not exist prior.

#4295 11/16/05 01:44 PM
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"isn?t it possible that before the ?big bang?, time did not exist?"
And for how long would time have not- existed?

#4296 11/16/05 07:12 PM
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Not just possible ... probably and highly likely.

But an absence of time is an absence of time. To ask a question such as "for how long" is as meaningless as asking who you would be if you had different parents.


DA Morgan
#4297 11/21/05 04:17 PM
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he hee. That was a trick question.

#4298 11/22/05 10:47 PM
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Rob you have to realise that while time is a real thing, we humans view it from our perspective which is based on the orbit of our planet around a star we call the sun. Time was invented when man started to find a way to measure it. Yet time was and will always be there it is infinite from the past, present and into the future. These three actually occur simultaneouly as mankind will one day discover. So in ancient times the sun and stars were our measurement, recently yhe creation of the clock is our measurement, but in the future when finally identifies time for what it is, well that is another question that our eminent scientist D. A. Morgan could try to fathom for you.

#4299 11/24/05 01:50 PM
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Chris Maxwell,
That's not how I see time, in fact, I see anyone who sees time in the way you described; "based on the orbit of our planet around a star", as a bit silly. I believe in Newton's time where there are no regions where time is different. I also do not think time and space are in any way linked. The fact that light bends or slows down at certain points in the universe has nothing to do with time, it's to do with gravity and photons.

#4300 11/24/05 07:11 PM
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Rob wrote:
"I also do not think time and space are in any way linked."

Well this puts you at odds with essentially every educated person on the planet with even a superficial knowledge of reality.

But heck ... just because Einstein called it space-time doesn't make it so. He could have been wrong.

So when are you receiving your Nobel Prize?


DA Morgan
#4301 12/08/05 06:18 PM
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what i'm saying is; if there was ABSOLUTE nothingness instead of this universe and everything around us, time would still exist.

#4302 12/08/05 08:47 PM
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furthermore, people seem to have been deluded with visible light. The fact that time travels at a speed and can be slowed down does not in any way give people reason to use terms like "go back in time."

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