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Ah yes, what do we do now? I believe the answers, are and always have been right in front of us. The emotional system. This system is more mechanical then previously understood. The system also is subject to our center point awareness Tutor refers to as heart. The orientals have understood and documented thoroughly the emotional, cognitive and physical interdependence. By isolating our emotional experience and understanding its funtional duality we can begin, baby steps of course, to changes our internal landsacpe, which moves us toward the heart or spritiual center. Religion has been a false place holder for us in our hopes to find lost connection to something higher or better by looking outside of ourselves. The reality is, it only comes from within and the actual emotional system is an access pont and offers an exciting wormhole of opportunity. The beauty is, each individual's access is through thier very own experience of fear, despair, anger, greed, self-pity, worry, indifference etc. Each of these emotions represents energy temporarily stuck in a negative frequency. We at some point made conscious choices, because of events or influences in our life, to program this energy of the emotional system into the negative reactions we experience. Interestingly, just like a computer the programming stayed in place long after our memory of the event has faded. The fear stays and then attches to many new stimuli. There are several "reboot" techniques being developed which produce a shift which simeoultaneously releives the negative emotional charge and produces a calm neurtal or postive experience. When such a change takes place predictable cognitive, spriritual and physical improvement follows. In alternative medicine we call this healing. Imagine now, if you will, having a negative emoition, like anxiety, flare up and be able to rejoice because you know how to access a higher plane of experneice by transforming it. That is something we can do in the NOW.


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


My opinion? I have been asked many times: If by means of a magical time machine you were transported back in time and as a result of that experience you became convinced that there was no such a person as the Jesus of history, what would it do to your faith?

My response: My focus is on the nature and meaning of the message, not on who was the messenger. I suspect that what we call the Golden Rule and other great love-based messages is the work of many great people. Perhaps several of them were called Jesus.

So much for Truth being self evident. Now we have truth being self proclaimed and enforced by democratic consensus.
What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..What if..

God will patiently wait out such egotistic fantasies.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Please excuse the spelling errors in my last post. Should have taken more time to review.


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Iehe, good points in your last post.

Just a gentle suggestion: Keep your paragraphs short, and use headings to emphasize your main points. This will make it easier for reading.

ABOUT THE JOURNEY TO TOTAL HEALTH
BTW, have you read Eckhart Tolle's stuff? When did you first get interested in the kind of thing you write about, like Natural Therapeutics? Yes, I checked out the link you give in your personal profile.



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Revlgking, I appreciate your advice and will follow it. Thank you.

I have had health problems from childhood which resulted in a couple of near death experiences. Remarkable improvements in my health followed these experiences, but they were temporary. I pursued alternative medicine in an attempt to understand what happened.

I eventually developed my own approach to accessing changes in the emotional stress/pain system. It is good work, but of course I am in the good company of many inspired individuals making great strides in understanding the mind body connection. T

The work I do is more mechanical than philosophical. I focus on reversing the thinking process which apparently changes the brains function to making the changes desired.

I equate the interaction of the emotional system and the prefrontal cortex of the brain to the prisms effect on light from white to a rainbow and back again to white. The trick is to understand the prism.

In answer to your other question, yes I have read the Power of Now. I also like The Course in Miracles.



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Iehe, apropos to your comments about the mechanical nature of the emotional system: Did you notice the add just below todays posts? It is about reclaiming the brain.

http://www.lumosity.com/landing/l_brain_games?refer=9512&gclid=CLD-_66ZkJYCFQu-GgodOkI0Fg
Obviously the spirit of Wilhelm Wundt is still with us. I agree that there is a lot to be said for the value of behaviourism...if it includes spirituality. How do you feel about this?

Also, I want to go back to what you wrote in your first post, Wed Oct 01 2008. from New Mexico
Quote:
I believe spirituality is when people have personal belief systems both moral/ethical and with respect to the nature of reality and their environment and the good sense and culture to treasure them as personal beliefs.

On the other hand religion is the desire to control people by manipulating their spirituality.

The garden of eden is a perfect image of manipulation and control through the principle of first, withholding knowledge, second, invoking fear and manufacturing guilt from meaningless associations. Thereby third, punishment is accepted and control relinquished.
I think I said that I agree with your critique of religion. Now, in my opinion, here is the challenge we face: Is it possible for us to have a non dogma-based religion that is compatible with a rational kind of spirituality?


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Is it possible for us to have a non dogma-based religion that is compatible with a rational kind of spirituality?


Rationale and dogma come from the ego in its different levels of understanding and conscious awareness of reality. Truth exists all around us always. It can't be known through rationale of the ego, only the conscious awareness of a spiritually awakened conscious awareness that has not been tethered by the ego.

Spirituality has never been in its natural state dogmatic or a religion. People choose to be religious and dogmatic.

The question might be asked will people, can people as individuals or as a collective all rise above dogma or religion, to experience spirituality either individually or all at the same time?

I think the answer is going to be relative from the projections of those who aren't awake and more inclined to stem from the reality of truth from those who are awake and without the influence of the ego.


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IeHe, as you wrote
Quote:
Revlgking, I appreciate your advice and will follow it. Thank you.
I appreciate your non-egoic response. Thank You. Your post is now much easier for me to read.

BTW, obviously you have learned how to handle your ego. Any time you feel that I need a little nudge to help me keep away letting myself get caught in the egoic mind (psyche) trap--the kind that thrives on being defensive and is fueled by the power of fear--feel free to nudge me and awaken me, here. If it is a private matter you can use the PM (personal message) section.

THE EGO, which thrives on DEFENSIVENESS AND FEAR
If you have Tolle's book, THE POWER OF NOW, handy, I would like you to read chapter two, and take note of pages 43-46.

In my opinion (IMO) the whole of chapter two, about CONSCIOUSNESS: THE WAY OUT OF PAIN, makes some very important points. Chapter two is about how important it is for all of us, including young children, to learn about how NOT TO CREATE MORE PAIN IN THE PRESENT.

Apparently Tolle is saying that the leaders of religions--of all kinds--who teach the TRUE believers need to spend this lives in pain and suffering, in an attitude of sacrifice and be willing to die as martyrs, are wrong. Interestingly--with few exceptions,and there are some--most leaders of the religions live lives in which they enjoy positions of privilege and power. Hmmmmmm!!!

Is this what Tolle is saying?
What is the truth about this?

Here, in summary, is what I hear him say: KNOWING HOW TO BE PRESENT IN THE NOW WILL DELIVER US FROM the EVIL of SUFFERING

Will it? Perhaps we need to be willing to experiment with this idea. I have. I am happy to report: It works! So far.

As I understand Tolle, freedom from the evil of pain and suffering starts with our accepting that we live in the NOW, always. No longer need we be limited by time and space. When we awaken to the reality that, though we have bodies (somas) and minds (psyches), in reality, we ARE spiritual beings (pneumas).

As spiritual beings within Being itself--I like to call it GOD--we are, IMO, like Jesus, gifted us with the power to be observers, victors, not victims. You and I have this wonderful power to simply observe what is happening in the mind (psyche) and body (soma) in the NOW, from which point the sky--all of infinite and eternal space/time continuum in which we live, move and have our being--is the limit.

WATCHERS, EMPOWERED BY LOVE, NOT FEAR
In other words, as spiritual beings, we have the greatest power in the cosmos at our disposal--of being loving watchers and observers of all that is going on, including what we will and how we feel, around and within us.

Realizing this, we are able to develop a sense of what Tolle calls the PRESENCE., Without being negative or positive--critical or judgmental-- we can focus on all our feelings--physical, mental and spiritual as they are.

TOLLE'S SUGGESTION ABOUT THE FUTURE OF EDUCATION
Here is Tolle's suggestion: This is so basic and so simple that "It could be taught to a child and hopefully one day it will be one of the first things children learn in school."

What a goal!

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Quote:

WATCHERS, EMPOWERED BY LOVE, NOT FEAR
In other words, as spiritual beings, we have the greatest power in the cosmos at our disposal--of being loving watchers and observers of all that is going on, including what we will and how we feel, around and within us.

Observing or witnessing leads us to the discovery of Our consciousness being present within the presence of an underlying reality that is stable in the experience of both the conscious observer, and the body and its feelings.

The greatest power is not to stand and watch but actually become the creator and to manipulate time and space.
This is neither being a victim nor a victor, but engaging in reality as it is. This is "Being" in the nature of spirit as it creates the individual soul and its many physical manifestations.

Witnessing and discovering the essence of nature is certainly more powerful than the dual aspects of being a victim to the unknown, but by diving into the absolute presence and becoming "One" with it, consciously there is no degree of separation between creator and created. They are the same "ONE."

Read on Rev. There is so much more for you to know and experience. Obviously you can't get it all in a book or books. There is so much more to consciousness than can be explained in a book. Which is probably why there are hundreds if not thousands of books filled with the wisdom of the enlightened.

You've made some great steps since we first met.


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BEWARE OF SELF-APPOINTED GURUS, INCLUDING ME
Please do not misunderstand me. I am impressed by the humble witness of teachers like Eckhart Tolle. long before ET there were the Prophets, Moses, the Buddha, Socrates, Jesus, Muhammad, and a host of others. All have done a lot to further humanity's search for truth.

But sure as shootin', in the present there will always be some self-appointed egoic gurus who will always question the right of such teachers and and their disciple to ask questions and make comments which can help all of us grow in all ways.

Keep in mind that self-appointed gurus always want to be in control. Usually they imply that they alone have access to some kind of inner and secret truth, which they have the power to hold back until they feel ready to release it. They imply that we must have their approval before we take any more steps on our own. As you learn more, they will always claim that it was they who led you to this improvement, in the first place.

Therefore, posters, beware of all self-appointed gurus, including me. No matter how hard you look for some kind of hidden wisdom from us, you will not find any. We all deserve to be ignored!!! When you choose to be a love-based person, your best teacher dwells within your own heart, in the NOW.


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BEWARE OF SELF-APPOINTED GURUS, INCLUDING ME


Not to worry, Those who are not invested in the identifications of your ego are less likely to be caught in any idea of being victimized by you.
Those who are resonant with your idealistic beliefs in being a Self Appointed Guru will be the ones who will most violently react to that which they hate about themselves.

The world is always a perfect mirror of what is inside of our hearts. Ones treasure is where ones heart is.
The true treasure of the heart is the "One," God/Consciousness.
But the ego cannot see the forest for the trees, or for the identifications it puts on everything surrounding the heart in its illusions of self proclaimed identity and accomplishments of relative self worth and self measure.

Everything is of consciousness, and for the ego that really doesn't compute, for consciousness is simply the energetic firing of synapses within the fleshy material of the mortal brain, which dies with the created physical body.
So the ego does not recognize itself in the world within its sensory reach, only what it idealizes in the world as personal.

God/consciousness, the creator never leaves its immortal status. Ego however, blinded by the fear of pain and suffering ever seeks to protect itself from everything that it does not recognizes as its own. That would be the personal separated from the whole by fear and the illusion of ignorance (the ignoring of the absolute Self within everything).

We all attract exactly what we need to further our growth. That would be because we create everything that is within ourselves.
When we carry so much baggage around the heart what we see in the world around us is exactly the reflection of ourselves.

The True Guru only points one back toward their heart. The disciple then must learn to separate the illusions of what is wrapped around the heart and sees in the mirror to get to the actual heart or the Self.
Often the Guru will patiently wait for the student to move past the egoic resistance to letting self identification go, and the personal need to be in control, until the student finally opens the self to greater perception.
In the correcting of vision that the Guru performs in service to the students quest to regain the awareness of the Self, there is no ego, only service and surrender to the students greater goal toward expanded consciousness and freedom from suffering in the illusions of false perceptions.

Full appreciation for the Guru and their egoless presence is not recognized until one finally knows what it is like to have mastered their own ego, and experiences how twisted it is in always taking the attention outward into what it thinks is happening to it as a victim to its own creation.

Anything that threatens the self control of the ego and its limitations it violently reacts toward.

Only one who has recognized God within everything can know that everything that comes to ones self is for intellectual and spiritual growth in the reflections of illusion and truth so that one can master the difference and understand the Self.
This process engages certain aspects of yoga such as Svadhaya, (Study of the Self) and Isvara Pranidana, (Surrendering everything of perception to God/Consciousness/Self). Primary to Isvara Pranidana is first, the experience or conscious recognition of God/Consciousness/Self.

The path of love embraces everything and is relative to the fully awakened intellect and spiritually connected individual.
The path of fear divides everything and is born of stress within the nervous system and the ego.

Innocence is not replaced by ignorance in the path of Love, only the student who is ready to know the difference will draw a True Guru to aid them in their path toward the heart.

Ignorance is a great shadow that blinds innocence when the path is full of fear, and it draws all kinds of false Gods and Gurus toward ones self so that it can see exactly what resides within the heart of beliefs and the ego.

Everything is always a gift for ones growth.

Quote:
I am impressed by the humble witness of teachers like Eckhart Tolle.

Just a thought....but have you thought about actually surrendering yourself and your ego to someone like Tolle, and becoming a student to the Teacher, to master the difference between the self appointed guru within yourself and the True Guru in Him?

There ain't nothing like when the rubber meets the road and actually coming face to face with a True Teacher, rather than hiding behind self interpretations of a what you believe is in a book.
I've seen what you have done with your interpretations of scripture and how you personalize it rather than recognizing any truth that would be universal to all (which would be far beyond the personalization of the ego).

After all those years spent with religion it might be something new to chew on, meeting someone who impresses you with a greater truth than you have immersed yourself in the past.



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Beware, especially, of verbose gurus who tell you: Not to worry... laugh

Last edited by Revlgking; 10/06/08 03:55 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Beware, especially, of verbose gurus who tell you: Not to worry... laugh

Be aware of those who believe fear is a better guide to truth than Love. wink


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Beware of gurus, including me, who tell you they have no ego to defend. Then with a wink and a whopper--told with love, of course--they defend it anyway. ...:D Yes, we have our share of hypocrisy to deal with.

But seriously TT, except for your posts here, I do not know you all that well. But, pardon me for expressing what I think and how I feel about some of your posts:

When you keep on telling me and others what we should, must and ought to believe to be true you give us the impression that you are a guru wannabe. I hope that this is not true and that, unless you want to stifle dialogue, your future posts will reflect that you are not.

Obviously I cannot tell you to your face what I think of you, so here I will simply ask: Would you please limit you comments here to your opinion on the topic--your philosophy of religion, your goals, dreams, ideals and the like.

Sure, opinion offered with respect is always worthy of respect. It is okay for you to say, politely, how you feel about what I--Tolle, or anyone--write. The same is true about what I say about myself, about how I live from day to day, about my family, church, community; my reputation, what I fear and don't fear--things, BTW, which you keep to yourself--which, if this is your choice, is OK by me. I happen to be the curious and open-faced type.

But the freedom to opine, does not give anyone the right to admonish and judge others; to tell anyone what they should and ought to be, fear and do. Let me, as I do you, deal with my ego in my own time.

BTW, speaking about dialogue: I would like to encourage Iehe to stay involved, and for others to get involved. Let us not allow any new poster to get killed in the crossfire of what I feel--notice the word I use--is a duel between a couple of defensive, egotistic windbags.

Or, perhaps you would you like to ask the moderators for an opinion.


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

But seriously TT, except for your posts here, I do not know you all that well. But, pardon me for expressing what I think and how I feel about some of your posts:

No apology necessary. Expressing from emotion and lack of knowledge is always revealing in the process of growth and evolution.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

When you keep on telling me and others what we should, must and ought to believe to be true you give us the impression that you are a guru wannabe. I hope that this is not true and that, unless you want to stifle dialogue, your future posts will reflect that you are not.


If you are certain of what reality is and certain that I am what you say I am then there would be nothing other than that to be real.
If I have a different experience then we have within reality two clashing realities that are real.
Obviously if there is a Truth it couldn't possibly clash with itself, something would have to give and that would be any illusion that would be labeled as truth but in fact is not.

You might have to ask yourself if it is possible for someone to know the Truth. Also how would you recognize that person and the Truth of which that person lives if it clashed with your truth?

We all from the ego make projections of the truth and from those projections try to protect what we have and know so that nothing can take what little we have.
If There is a Universal truth not fabricated by the illusions of the ego, then it cannot be destroyed, only ignored.

How hard we fight for our egoic truth is a good indicator of how little we know about our truth and also how fragile it is.
Truth that cannot be destroyed remains in and amongst all the comings and goings of relative truths, and one who finds Truth cannot be so intimidated by any relative truth, or by anyone with a relative truth.
All dialogue is subject to interpretation.

You see everything that comes to you as you want to see it.
Unless you are anchored in the One Truth you won't be able to see it any other way.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Obviously I cannot tell you to your face what I think of you, so here I will simply ask: Would you please limit you comments here to your opinion on the topic--your philosophy of religion, your goals, dreams, ideals and the like.

But Rev. You always do that for me. So what's the problem?
You tell me what you think of me and you limit everything I say to my opinion. That has been how you dialogue with me.
Why doesn't this choice of yours make you happy?
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Sure, opinion offered with respect is always worthy of respect. It is okay for you to say, politely, how you feel about what I--Tolle, or anyone--write. The same is true about what I say about myself, about how I live from day to day, about my family, church, community; my reputation, what I fear and don't fear--things, BTW, which you keep to yourself--which, if this is your choice, is OK by me. I happen to be the curious and open-faced type.

I have great respect for you Rev. It just doesn't come from the ego nor is the respect for the ego.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

But the freedom to opine, does not give anyone the right to admonish and judge others; to tell anyone what they should and ought to be, fear and do. Let me, as I do you, deal with my ego in my own time.

Does that mean you want to withdraw from telling me who or what I am, how I or anyone should dialogue, and allow others to deal with their ego in their own time?
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, speaking about dialogue: I would like to encourage Iehe to stay involved, and for others to get involved. Let us not allow any new poster to get killed in the crossfire of what I feel--notice the word I use--is a duel between a couple of defensive, egotistic windbags.

I think you just need to look beyond the identification of your ego Rev and bring the Now into focus so that you can actually experience God happening. Then you won't need to spend so much time trying to moderate your world, and actually begin to live in it but not of it.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking


Or, perhaps you would you like to ask the moderators for an opinion.

About what?


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TT writes
Quote:
Just a thought....but have you thought about actually surrendering yourself and your ego to someone like Tolle, and becoming a student to the Teacher, to master the difference between the self appointed guru within yourself and the True Guru in Him?...
TT, so what does that mean? Neither have did I ever go forward in a Billy Graham campaign and been "saved".
Quote:
After all those years spent with religion it might be something new to chew on, meeting someone who impresses you with a greater truth than you have immersed yourself in the past.
How much do you know of my past? Tolle is not the first to make me aware of the need for the "transformation of human consciousness".

Long before Tolle there was a man name Jesus who called us to be born again--to consciousness. Over the years teachers--like several I had in my teens at university--writers like William James, Carl Jung, H.E. Fosdick, Leslie D. Weatherhead, Abraham Maslow, Victor Frankl, Alfred North Whitehead, Milton Erickson--the great psychiatrist and hypnotist--Matthew Fox and a host of others added their voices to the chorus.

I respect Tolle because, like Jesus (John 17:20-24), he does not come on as a master looking for subjects but as another voice in the chorus.

BTW, you write about"...the self appointed guru within yourself." When you write "yourself" Are you referring to me? Me? I am just another voice in the chorus.

BTW, please note: Please point out anywhere I called you "a self-appointed guru." If you can, I will apologize.


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Revlgking: "Is it possible for us to have a non dogma-based religion that is compatible with a rational kind of spirituality?"
In answer to your question above, I absolutely believe it is possible and inevitable to achieve a common ground spirituality that is rational and supports the unity of all creation. Whether or not I would call that a religion, I am not sure? The term “religion” may become obsolete as we evolve.

In my work we isolate each negative emotional reaction and shift it mentally. For every shift that takes place, a distinctly higher-minded process and often spiritual consideration takes the place of the prior stress. This is so predictable we have been able to help individuals blueprint the changes they desire. Everyone we encounter desires changes on one way or another. Each change opens functions and elevates considerations that lead to the next desired change. It is profound yet graceful and gentle.

As these changes relate to spirituality and religion, we observe participants, who use this technique regularly, much more willing to engage in spiritual conversations without the dogmatic antagonisms, regardless of religious back ground. It is also noted that we have shared this technique with 100’s of people including Catholics, agnostics, atheists, Baptists, Buddhists; all use the program and feel as if they are attaining a new level of spiritual understanding within themselves. The distinct lines of judgment that separate individual beliefs, on all levels, seem to dim and are replaced with understanding and enlightenment.

Based on clinical observations, I have much hope for humanity as we learn new ways to repair/reboot our highly misunderstood emotional system. I must say in retrospect that religion was seemingly developed as a way to integrate negative emotional responses into a spiritual framework. In reality the experiences of negative emotions and spiritual connectedness are mutually exclusive. When ego replaces spirit, religion replaces spirituality.


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
TT writes
Quote:
Just a thought....but have you thought about actually surrendering yourself and your ego to someone like Tolle, and becoming a student to the Teacher, to master the difference between the self appointed guru within yourself and the True Guru in Him?...
TT, so what does that mean? Neither have did I ever go forward in a Billy Graham campaign and been "saved".

It means to meet the Teacher in ET personally, to expose (if any) supposition or self interpretation of his writings, so as to gain the experience of the Teacher rather than to believe you have an experience of the Teacher and the Teaching.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Quote:
After all those years spent with religion it might be something new to chew on, meeting someone who impresses you with a greater truth than you have immersed yourself in the past.
How much do you know of my past? Tolle is not the first to make me aware of the need for the "transformation of human consciousness".

Long before Tolle there was a man name Jesus who called us to be born again--to consciousness. Over the years teachers--like several I had in my teens at university--writers like William James, Carl Jung, H.E. Fosdick, Leslie D. Weatherhead, Abraham Maslow, Victor Frankl, Alfred North Whitehead, Milton Erickson--the great psychiatrist and hypnotist--Matthew Fox and a host of others added their voices to the chorus.

I respect Tolle because, like Jesus (John 17:20-24), he does not come on as a master looking for subjects but as another voice in the chorus.

So you believe in a chorus that sings of change but does not live it or teach it to others. Alrighty then....

Having been long aware of the need in transformation of human consciousness, how would you apply that to yourself and how you would help another, if it were not to included being guided by someone who has the knowledge and experience of getting the job done?

Do you suppose to "figure it out" from not knowing what the change is or what it looks like and then speaking of that process with others in order to democratically appeal to some kind of solution? Or do you presuppose that change needs to made to the effect of what everyone already knows but just don't make it so because of some kind of condition, such as complacency or disinterest in change?

Also do you believe Jesus was crucified for just singing with the Chorus?

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

BTW, you write about"...the self appointed guru within yourself." When you write "yourself" Are you referring to me? Me? I am just another voice in the chorus.

BTW, please note: Please point out anywhere I called you "a self-appointed guru." If you can, I will apologize.


I was referring to your statement...
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BEWARE OF SELF-APPOINTED GURUS, INCLUDING ME
...where you called yourself a "SELF APPOINTED GURU."
Such a label when applied to ones self or any other would could be psychologically revealing and on a more grounded level tantamount to any actual knowledge of being a Guru or the projected idea of one.
Are you an expert on Guru's? Have you met one either self appointed or otherwise? (Setting aside the frivolous application you used toward yourself)


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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TT, you ask
Quote:
Are you an expert on Guru's? Have you met one either self appointed or otherwise? (Setting aside the frivolous application you used toward yourself)
Yes, over the years, several. In 1964, I met the late Maharhisi Mahesh Yogi, the founder of TM. Remember him?

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
TT, you ask
Quote:
Are you an expert on Guru's? Have you met one either self appointed or otherwise? (Setting aside the frivolous application you used toward yourself)
Yes, over the years, several. In 1964, I met the late Maharhisi Mahesh Yogi, the founder of TM. Remember him?
Absolutely, and did you spend enough time with him in regard to his teaching and philosophy to absorb the nature of Maharishi and his teaching? Meaning did you just meet him or did you spend time with him engaged in conversations regarding what he was about and what he taught and how he taught. Were you a student of TM?

In fact did you spend enough time with all of the several Gurus to absorb the essence of the Guru and the Teaching?

Do you consider yourself knowledgeable regarding the way of the Guru?

Originally Posted By: Revlgking

I respect Tolle because, like Jesus (John 17:20-24), he does not come on as a master looking for subjects but as another voice in the chorus.

I'm not finding in John any reference to a voice in a chorus...


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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