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Originally Posted By: Ellis
Please could you post a family tree of those puppies!


Of course you are right about the puppies being pugs. I had to go right back to page 93 to see if I had referred to them as such. Gives some idea of the quantity of posting in this thread.

Our daughter has three pugs; two boys of her own breeding (Dannika and Forty) and a bitch (Teasel) who barked herself out of her previous home some time ago. Teasel and Dannika are the parents of these pups, who arrived earlier than expected, while our daughter was away, which is how Donette came to be on midwife duty.

Initially there were six puppies, three of each sex, but one of the girls died before being named. The tiny one in the original picture was Gladys-Emanuelle (Cf. Ronny Barker’s “Open all Hours”). She struggled valiantly, but didn’t survive. The last
casualty was Gumble (Cf. Bottersnikes and Gumbles). You will have noticed that all the names begin with “G”, that’s because this is our daughter’s 7th litter.

Teasel developed very severe, non-responsive eclampsia with later complications and only just survived.

The remaining three puppies are Gertrude (Cf. Basil Brush’s Dirty Gertie from No 30), Gurgi (Cf. The Black Cauldron) and Grimson (don’t ask)

Bomber’s real name is Bombay Potato (apparently his previous person was very fond of them). He came to us last Sept. We were told he was five and amongst other things “good with other dogs”. We suspect that he is older than five and we know for certain that he would rather that no other dog inhabited the same planet. At least that was the case until be met the puppies.

Quote:
The one in front has Wil's look of resignation at face wash time.


That's Gertie.


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As an American Indian I am always amazed by the concept of God. It has been my observation "religion" is not a philosophy as much as it is a man-created idea, probably originating to control people. I acknowledged "religion" has been philosophized by the rationale of the human mind but really, the human mind rationalizing anything, even murder. Now, to experiential occurrences, such as sense contact with an otherwise not wholly understood "supreme being," this is also defined by one's teachings, from a human standpoint. Probably the idea of Creation is better understood by science, a science we do not know yet. As long as we live and breathe, however, we ought not to overlook and hence be ungrateful, for the marvels of the human body alone and its human mind, processing the senses, including fear and emotions BUT also we possess conscience. Conscience is perhaps God-gifted as it is a link to higher intelligence beyond our human selves. However, anything coming from the conscience is also tweaked by the human mind according to how immersed it is with the human-body and the chemicals and acids animating through the bloodstream.

In any regard, American Indian "Philosophy" says, underpinning all physical reality is "spirit," spirit is conscious, has intelligence and Will all for the benefit of the life of earth. All things possess spirit. One day we will know what this is, spirit, and therefore, might be able to understand God. Spirit is a science we just don't know about yet.

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Can't say as I agree with you on a couple of points.
Possession of consciousness.
That would imply, that which creates, reflects, and is by its nature spirit, could be contained by an idea/identity outside of that.

Science of Spirit being unknown.
That science is as old as humanity. One need only look to find the reflections of that science upon history in the words of the enlightened scientists of the past and present.


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Originally Posted By: qqjones
In any regard, American Indian "Philosophy" says, underpinning all physical reality is "spirit,"


Hi, welcome to SAGG.

Would I be right in thinking that this concept of "spirit" is applied also to things that we might consider inanimate?


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Spirit? IMO, Bill, there are at least three components (essential parts) to that which I think of as spirituality. The components are body, mind and spirit--that is, soma, psyche and pneuma:

SOMA (body)
somatically speaking, spirit, for me, is as real as the very air (pneumatos) we breathe. Without taking our next breath, we would all be physically dead.

PSYCHE (mind)
Psychically and psychologically, speaking, we are who we are as the result our heredity and total social environment, of the way we have been trained and educated. In my opinion being cut off from this and condemned to live in solitary confinement would, for me and most people, be a fate worse than physical death.

PNEUMA (spirit)
Pneumatologically, or spiritually, speaking, It IS ... and there is more, much more to be said, ad infinitum.

Meanwhile, a pneumatolocial welcome to qqjones. I assume he will allow us to keep up with the Joneses.:)


Last edited by Revlgking; 06/01/12 10:34 PM. Reason: Always helpful

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Spirit? IMO, Bill, there are at least three components (essential parts) to that which I think of as spirituality. The components are body, mind and spirit--that is, soma, psyche and pneuma:

SOMA (body)
somatically speaking, spirit, for me, is as real as the very air (pneumatos) we breathe. Without taking our next breath, we would all be physically dead.

PSYCHE (mind)
Psychically and psychologically, speaking, we are who we are as the result our heredity and total social environment, of the way we have been trained and educated. In my opinion being cut off from this and condemned to live in solitary confinement would, for me and most people, be a fate worse than physical death.

PNEUMA (spirit)



Pneumatologically, or spiritually, speaking, It IS ... and there is more, much more to be said, ad infinitum.

Meanwhile, a pneumatolocial welcome to qqjones. I assume he will allow us to keep up with the Joneses.:)

IT is...
Is according to the temporary assessment of the ego in the accumulation of individual thoughts that are belief and opinion?
IS subject to the conditions of sex, age, health, IQ, race, cultural/political and religious upbringing?
IS slave to the human conditions?

Now we're in the same mindset that created God as a personality with all the human emotions, weaknesses and judgments.
The SPIRIT of the religionists.


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Something else to consider about the word soma. It refers to the soul body of all living things, not the physical or temporary body of the flesh. That idea was an inaccurate determination made by the mind of superstition that does not imagine the soul living prior to the physical body, and only living after the body if God decides the flesh was maintained within the order prescribed by those who have determined the definition and nature of God.

In the teachings of Advaita Vedanta or non duality, soma is the molecule which allows the interaction of the flesh with spirit. To be Christed or to have attained the Buddhi, one transcends the flesh and connects the mind physically with God the spirit, that which is immortal and beyond the flesh.
When soma is refined into Amrita immortality is realized.


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AH! The art of communication--one we all need to practice so as to master it:

The poet Shelley said of his mother-in-law: “She has lost the power of communication but, sadly, not the power of speech.” laugh


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Quote:
“She has lost the power of communication but, sadly, not the power of speech.”


Surely you are not suggesting there are people like that on SAGG! smile


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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO00000000000000, Never!!! smile
==============================================
But seriously, sacred literature, history--ancient and modern--and the modern media is filled with stories of devastation and tragedy caused simply by miscommunication.

For example, there is evidence to suggest that it was a mistranslation of an important term that caused miscommunication between the Axis and the Allies during WW 2 that led to the dropping of the atom bomb--first of its kind--on Hiroshima, Japan.


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
AH! The art of communication--one we all need to practice so as to master it:

The poet Shelley said of his mother-in-law: “She has lost the power of communication but, sadly, not the power of speech.” laugh
Understanding is going to be an issue when it comes to listening, especially when the ears are full of ones own ideas rather than those which are bigger than opinion and belief.
Speech, then is subject to understanding whether the ears are listening and to know whether to speak or withhold wisdom from deaf ears.

When dialogue is subject to rules of engagement one can be sure the ears are turned only to a certain frequency, or resonant speak.

Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


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Bill, your ducky-kinda signature reminds me of:
Quote:
Your father and my father both went to different schools, together, eh? smile
Anymore ducky signatures?

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/06/12 10:30 PM.

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C.F. I. stands for the Center For Inquiry
Check out the following and see what you think
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/12699/

Occam is a moderator. - 02 July 2012 11:05 AM In a recent post he wrote is response to me:

RevLGK, I agree, the original topic [IN WHICH I CALLED FOR A DIALOGUE, NOT A DEBATE] has long disappeared. That seems to be a usual pattern on discussion boards that are not rigidly monitored. The topic gets discussed for a while, then when most have had their say, someone responds to an extraneous comment, and that becomes the new subject of discussion.

This can be annoying to those who would like to continue on the original topic. I suggest that you post a short summary of the items you would like to have discussed. The members will almost certainly be led back to that. Occam

I responded: Thanks, Occam. Let’s see the response we get to your suggestion. What should it be, a DIALOGUE or a DEBATE?

In my opinion: There is quite a difference between having a dialogue (a polite conversation)—the method I enjoy and prefer using—and having a debate. I did not join CFI to win a debate. Most of what I say is my opinion.

I have no desire to prove that I HAVE The Truth and that those who disagree with me do NOT. I could say more here but I will leave it at that.

Again in my opinion, debating—which, in the proper context can be enjoyable and valuable—as I understand it is a method best suited to the spoken word, not the written one, like this forum. I can’t imagine the complexity of having a civilized debate—minus ad hominems and insults—about interesting and important items, people, issues and topics in a forum.

BTW, my large two-volume, World Book Dictionary, which I like using, defines ‘debate’ as a “discussion of reasons for and against ...”. It gives the archaic(Old French & Latin) meaning as fighting; strife and contention; to fight, quarrel, contend and “debate with angry swords” (Shakespeare).

BTW 2, about ad hominems, insults and the like—direct or implied—which I try to avoid using: IMO, such verbal daggers, swords, javelins and the like can be just as death dealing as metal ones. IMO, they have no place in a dialogue or, for that matter, in any truly civilized debate in which I would agree to participate.
=======================================
Here is the Signature I used at CFI:

I think of myself as one is free to be, or not to be, a G~0~D~like being—to do all that is Good, Opportune & Desirable, & use my willpower wisely, or NOT Check profile & http://www.lindsayking.ca for bio.

Last edited by Revlgking; 07/02/12 08:49 PM.

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For the record. Within the dialogue of several of your previous postings... regardless of what you like to think about yourself... You have used a few of those daggers/swords/insults against subjects within the topics as well as posters. I will accept that I am one of those of which you made some remark pertaining to psychosis... crazy

Tho you may say you refrain from the proverbial debate, your opinion or your opinion of another's opinions (your comments), have included personal judgments and feelings. (Freedom of expression is a wonderful thing isn't it?)
As it is, with all of the co-dependent fear of igniting a feeling within ones self, people tend to tiptoe around the feelings of others by trying to edit everything they think say and feel.

Now. If you think you can exclude any controversy from the topic of conversation then lets see if you have the will power to suggest any idea about a subject or person without drawing attention to the subjective point of view and any judgments regarding your feelings about something within another's opinion, or having another suppress their feelings about your opinions.

No debating necessary just good old fashioned freedom of expressing the opposing thought and judgment regarding the line in the sand/dogma/belief.

Or maybe you could just ignore all of those who you have judgments about and keep the topics locked up and privatized within a congregation of individuals who would only have similar points of view.
How about your own website and forum. You could title it, "I did (and always will do) it my way"

Oh one more thing... If'n yer wanting to keep the topic within the boundaries of the subject matter, you might have to refrain from the personal biographies, Vacation updates, biographies and personal backgrounds of others, and the occasional Dog and Cat photos wink


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OH and one more note..
Looks like you were met with the same enthusiasm as is evident here on this website..
I like this post by Moderator:
"I suppose I have to treat you with respect since you were born eight months before I was. I also have spent quite a few hours reading on the subjects you mentioned. The problem is that from MY viewpoint, I could just as easily consider your statement with the final reference changed to Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Zeus, etc."

Not enough will power I s'pose to create a different image than what has been consistently rendered


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TT Once again I find myself in furious agreement with you!!

Personally I enjoy the meanderings along many pathways that is so characteristic of this site. We are having conversations, and the surprises we find along the way are part of the charm -, and sometimes the excitement of SAGG.

I have learned a lot here, and hope to discover more.

What's wrong with a little debating of a controversial point. The restrictions of dialogue, confined to a single topic, would not have lasted as long as this extraordinary topic has, I think.

And what's wrong with, for eg, photos of puppies -and various involved, rather incomprehensible diagrams? Keep them coming say I.

How boring 'predestined grooves' would be!

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I think the Reverend would agree with you about lending himself and others to distractions from the subject matter. Obviously he leads the way.
However he often has his senior moments where he tries on alternating ideas to bring the subject matter within his domain so that he can keep the attention on himself and his opinions in the conversation going.
In that, he contradicts himself from time to time.

It tends to prove a point regarding his changing ideas about God and anything attached to his paths or spiritual endeavors, (which is always subject to his changing beliefs rather than anything of permanence or real understanding).


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Could be that Rev is secretly working on another record attempt - to see how many different topics can be included in a single thread.


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It would go nicely with the record for the most ignored topic on SAGG.

So many hits,... so little interest and so few posters.. sleep


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CENTER FOR INQUIRY.NET (CFI)
======================
For those curious about how the dialog--at CFI, with atheists/agnostics/sceptics and others, including theists--is going, here is sample of the dialog between Write4U and me - 09 July 2012 02:45 PM
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/12699/P285/

After I told W4U about the Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity http://progressivechristianity.ca/prc/ here is what W4U said
Quote:
RevLGKing, encouraging words indeed.

I perused the link and was pleasantly surprised by the liberal and progressive topics and responses. It gives me hope that eventual reconcilliation of science and religion is possible and the two can live peacefully side by side in pursuit of finding answers to the real problems that face the earth and mankind in the near future.

I responded
Quote:
W4U, your encouraging response prompts me to ask: How can WE build on this, for the good of humanity?
W4U said
Quote:
IMO, this can be accompished by removing the distinction between the concepts of Natural and Supernatural and accept the law of Cause/Effect as a common, testable universal constant.

Why quibble about the physical or metaphysical properties? Let science try to figure it out and let the chips fall where they may about First Causality. After all is said and done, it won’t change anything in regard to Effect.
So let me (LGK) put it this way
Quote:
I have said it elsewhere and I will say it here: I choose to accept that the awesome nature of nature is super enough for all me.
W4U said
Quote:
Oh, everytime I look up at the cosmos on a clear night in No Idaho. I am astounded and humbled by the sheer beauty of it all. The more I understand of simplicity and logic in the principles of mathematics which can be extended to infinite complexity.

Fractals are a perfect example. A triangle with an “instruction” to duplicate itself, can result in similarly astoundingly beautiful forms, expressions and variety on any scale from the very fabric of space at the Planck scale, to broccolis to measuring irregular lines (coastlines) with incredible accuracy, or the formation and shapes of entire galaxies, creating the most extraordinary beautiful, albeit mindless, design.
May I add: perhaps it is up to us to provide the mind, soul, spirit and the meaning of it all. After all, are we not the astronomers? http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fractals&FORM=MYMSNA&mkt=en-US&qs=n&sk;=&cp=1252&pi=7317&di=12500

Last edited by Revlgking; 07/11/12 07:39 PM. Reason: Always helpful

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