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#40434 - 09/29/11 05:31 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Im not investing effort this is one of my hobbies.

my main problem is that people dont seem to be able to understand things your talking about even though youve been discussing the same thing for months.

and how they can stretch a discussion that should have required a day or so into years of typing in forums.

I believe the system will work.
kallog thinks it wouldnt work.

kallog just cant figure out why the system wouldnt work so he is grasping at every opportunity he can find to delay admitting it.

in the past in all of our discussions he has always supplied a quick reason why he thought that something wouldnt work and now he just cant find anything so hes stalling by nit picking everything he can find.

I might have problems calling things there proper units
but a program doesnt use units it only uses numbers.

and my program says it will work using only numbers to describe what would happen.




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40435 - 09/29/11 05:55 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
We don't throw away the seconds. Force x Time yields a Force x Time, not a Force alone.


what is a force?

what is a newton?

what does N mean?

what does 80N mean?

1 newton = 1kg x 1 m/s/s
1 newton = 1kg x 1 m/s x 1 second

4000N = 100kg x .8 m/s/s x 50 seconds
4000N = 80N x 50 seconds

thats why you can also say
80 kg m/s/s
or
80 kg m/s per second

time is in the "N"


Quote:
it is +80N applied for 50 seconds.

+80N each second for 50 seconds over a distance of 1000 meters

+80N x 50 seconds = +4000N



time is in the "N"


if I would have just said

80N x 50 = 4000N

kallog would have asked 50 what?

he would have said something like

you cant just multiply force by a number in order to stall a while longer.

he would have said that that would equal 4000N somethings because I didnt say what the 50 represented.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40436 - 09/29/11 06:23 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
Q: What is 2 bananas times 2 bananas?
Hint: NOT 4 bananas.


if 1 banana = 1 banana x 1 meter/second x 1 second

how many bananas would you have if you started with 0 bananas
and you picked up 1 banana each second for 50 seconds and you traveled a distance of 1000 meters.


1 banana x 50 seconds = 50 bananas

why would you say 50 banana seconds or 50 Bs

what if you picked up 80 bananas each second?

80 bananas x 50 seconds = 4000 bananas

how far did you travel to pick up the 4000 bananas?

1000 meters

how fast was your acceleration while you were picking up bananas

.8 m/s/s


if 1 banana = 1 banana x 1 meter/second x 1 second

then you should be able to pick up 1000 bananas in 1000 seconds if you picked up 1 banana each second.

or you should be able to pick up 1000 bananas in 1000 meters if you picked up 1 banana each meter.

but if you really hurry you can pick up

4000 bananas in 50 seconds if you pick up 80 bananas each second.

how many bananas would you have if you picked up 4000 bananas in 50 seconds?

4000 bananas

not 4000 banana seconds

how many newtons would you apply if you applied 80 newtons
each second for 50 seconds?
80N x 50 seconds = 4000N

not 4000 Ns

Originally Posted By: paul
it is +80N applied for 50 seconds.

+80N each second for 50 seconds over a distance of 1000 meters

+80N x 50 seconds = +4000N


Originally Posted By: kallog
4000Ns, not 4000N. This is the impulse applied to the pipe, not the force. It's also the momentum added to it. The force is 80N because you defined the force to be 80N.


Originally Posted By: kallog
This is the impulse applied to the pipe, not the force.


wrong , it is the 80N force applied to the pipe for 50 seconds.

the force is 4000N

a force is any influence that causes an object to undergo a change in speed

the force of 80N influenced the pipe to undergo a change in speed.

this force was applied for 50 seconds.

80N x 50 seconds = 4000N

not 4000Ns

what if I had applied the 80N force to the mass for only 1 second.

80N x 1 second = 80N

what if I had applied the 80N force to the mass for only 0 seconds.

80N x 0 second = 0N

when I originaly wrote what I wrote my purpose was to communicate that the total force applied to get the 100kg mass to travel the 1000 meter distance with a final velocity of 40 m/s in 50 seconds was 4000N










_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40439 - 09/29/11 07:38 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
I don't understand your "system' and I have not followed the posts, but I have peeked in and it seems to me that you make very basic mistakes. I'm not saying he's right. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you make very basic mistakes.

Answer: 2 bananas * 2 bananas = 4 bananas^2 (4 bananas squared)

Part of the beauty of algebra is that you don't have to think about the physical interpretation of intermediate results - but you do have to follow the rules. Ideally, you should understand them, but if you don't understand them, you at least need to use them in all derivations you use. You may not like it, but you can be pretty sure that the fellows who provided you with the formulas you're using would use the formulas in the way I suggest.

In every intro to science or engineering class one ever takes, among the most basic things the teacher will harp on is this: always keep your units. This is very important.

1 meter * 1 second is 1 meter-second. 2 meters and 2 seconds is 4 meter-seconds. 1 N * 1 s = 1 Ns. That's the math that all of these formulas requires - regardless of whether the interim results make physical sense to you.

It just doesn't make sense to argue about these more complicated examples, if you can't agree on the most fundamental cases. I tutor math from pre-algebra through calculus. I always start students on the simplest case I can think of.


Edited by TheFallibleFiend (09/29/11 07:40 PM)

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#40441 - 09/29/11 08:29 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Answer: 2 bananas * 2 bananas = 4 bananas^2 (4 bananas squared)

2 bananas squared = 4 bananas
4 bananas squared = 16 bananas

no , it equals 4 bananas
ie..

2 x 2 = 4

bananas x bananas = bananas

therefore 4 bananas

4^2 = 16
4 squared = 16

4 bananas squared = 4 bananas x 4 bananas = 16 bananas

put 4 in your calculator and then hit the x^2 button

when measuring the square footage of your room...

20 ft x 20 ft = 400 sq ft
not 400 sq ft^2
400 sq ft^2 = 160000 sq ft

you can also say 20 ft squared = 400 sq ft
or 20 ft^2 = 400 sq ft
but 20 sq ft isnt 400 sq ft either

so
(4 bananas squared)
isnt 4 bananas
its 16 bananas

think of each x as a banana

xxxx
xxxx
xxxx
xxxx

the x's form a square

4 bananas x 4 bananas = 16 bananas

not 16^2 or 16 bananas squared

or you can count the x's below
in the 20 x^2 room

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Quote:
1 N * 1 s = 1 Ns


1 newton is 1 second!
time is built into newtons

if someone tells me I only have a force of 80N

I know what I can do with it without thinking , about time.

80N will accelerate a 80 kg mass to 1 m/s/s in 1 second.
or
80N will will accelerate a 1 kg mass to 80 m/s/s in 1 second
or
80N will accelerate a 100 kg mass to .8 m/s/s in 1 second

so notice in the 3 examples above the only things that remained the same is

80N will accelerate a
and
in 1 second

1 newton is the force required to accelerate 1kg to 1 m/s/s

in physics we use N as the units of force
and
we use Ns as the units of momentum

momentum is not force
and
force is not momentum
from wiki force and momentum

In classical mechanics, momentum (pl. momenta; SI unit kgm/s, or, equivalently, Ns)

The SI unit of force is the newton (symbol N), which is the force required to accelerate a one kilogram mass at a rate of one meter per second squared


Quote:
I tutor math



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40442 - 09/30/11 01:02 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul

q: what is the amount of force that you would need to apply to a 100kg mass in order to accelerate it at a acceleration rate of .8 m/s/s for a distance of 1000 meters over a time period of 50 seconds.

answer: 4000N
80N x 50 seconds = 4000N

Again, no. You ignored the seconds. It should be 4000Ns which is an impulse, not a force. In this case impulse may be the more useful quantity because it captures the time that it took.

Correct answer:
F=ma
F=100kg * 0.8m/s^2
F=80N

You used

F=mat

which is not correct. If you doubt me, try to find a reference for it. Maybe search for that formula on Google.

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#40443 - 09/30/11 01:16 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul

kallog just cant figure out why the system wouldnt work so he is grasping at every opportunity he can find to delay admitting it.

Paul. I nailed down the 1-mass system water tight. It works exactly as I always said it would. That's a big step. But you didn't follow it.

So if I work out the complete system you won't follow that either. My effort will be wasted. That's why I would rather you do the work and I just correct the individual mistakes.


Quote:

I might have problems calling things there proper units
but a program doesnt use units it only uses numbers.

Sure, but 80N is not the same as 4000N. At the same time 1000g is the same as 1kg. Using the wrong number leads to the wrong result. This units business is actually crucial, it's not splitting hairs. It's the reason you get some seriously wrong answers.

It's also not hard. TFF has explained how it works. Just do that on every single calculation you do. Then you won't be calling an impulse a force, because the units will show that it's not a force, and cannot be correctly used where force is required.

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#40444 - 09/30/11 02:17 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Originally Posted By: paul
q: what is the amount of force that you would need to apply to a 100kg mass in order to accelerate it at a acceleration rate of .8 m/s/s for a distance of 1000 meters over a time period of 50 seconds.

answer: 4000N
80N x 50 seconds = 4000N




q: what is the amount of force that you would need to apply to a 100kg mass in order to accelerate it at a acceleration rate of .8 m/s/s?

answer 80N

q:over a time period of 50 seconds?

answer:4000N

did you read the question.
it ask what is the amount of force.
not what is the amount of momentum.
or what is the impulse force.



Originally Posted By: kallog
Again, no. You ignored the seconds. It should be 4000Ns which is an impulse, not a force. In this case impulse may be the more useful quantity because it captures the time that it took.

Correct answer:
F=ma
F=100kg * 0.8m/s^2
F=80N


what you are doing is accelerating the 100 kg mass to
.8 m/s/s for 1 second , it would only reach a velocity of
0.8 m/s in that 1 second.

and if 80N is all the force you can apply to the 100 kg mass
then after that 1 second you would no longer be accelerating the mass because you already used the force that you had.

so after you had applied the 80N force to the 100kg mass for a time of 1 second it would have 80Ns momentum
I didnt even have to calculate the momentum because the force caused its momentum.

and I know that the force applied was 80N

lets check it.

p=mv
p = 100kg x 0.8 m/s = 80Ns
yep...


it would keep going in zero g at a velocity of -0.8 m/s , but thats not what were doing here.

remember were accelerating the mass to -40 m/s not -0.8 m/s
ie..it needs to have a velocity of 40 m/s by the time it reaches the turn at a distance of 999.6 meters from where it was after you ran out of force.

OBVIOUSLY

your correct answer: is wrong.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40445 - 09/30/11 02:19 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Paul, there is no scientist or engineer on the planet that uses math as you do.

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#40447 - 09/30/11 03:06 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
Answer: 2 bananas * 2 bananas = 4 bananas^2 (4 bananas squared)


really?

thats why bridges fall down perhaps.

maybe you scientist and engineers and math tutors should have studied while you had the chance.

now that your working in the field and applying your knowledge to build things with and to teach others how to build things maybe you should take a refresher course before you teach your students the wrong way to do math.

4 square bananas = 4 bananas

not 4 bananas squared

4 bananas squared = 16 bananas







_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#40449 - 09/30/11 04:02 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Originally Posted By: paul

maybe you scientist and engineers and math tutors should have studied while you had the chance.



In high school, I tied for the 6th highest score in the state on the national math exam.

My masters was in engineering math (and cs).

I use math every day to solve real world problems.

I've used math to compute missile paths and camera visibility.

I'm pretty sure that I did study and continue to study.

I've just completed level I at projecteuler.net for no other reason than it's fun.

Paul, the guys who developed the formulas you're trying to use apply math in the same way that I do.

2 bananas * 2 = 4 bananas.

2 bananas * 2 bananas = 4 bananas^2

1 N <> 1 Ns

If you can't understand or at least accept this simple thing, any discussion with kallog or anyone else is wasted.

Let's try something even simpler ...
What is 2x * 2x?



Edited by TheFallibleFiend (09/30/11 04:05 AM)

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#40450 - 09/30/11 04:21 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
did you read the question.
it ask what is the amount of force.
not what is the amount of momentum.
or what is the impulse force.

I understand the question. But what TFF said recently is probably the best way to go. We should give up until you can do the basic operations that are needed to analyse this.

In the case of your question, you can simply apply the formula

F=ma

That's all, just substitute mass and acceleration to find the force. This equation is true for 1s, or 50s. If you disagree with that (Newton's 2nd law) then that's a whole different topic.

There is no such thing as what you're using:

F=mat

That equation is automatically wrong because it is dimensionally inconsistent.



Quote:

and if 80N is all the force you can apply to the 100 kg mass
then after that 1 second you would no longer be accelerating the mass because you already used the force that you had.

After that 1s, I'm still applying the same 80N force, continuously for all the seconds up to 50.

I can clearly see you're trying to find a "cumulative force" or the integral of force over time. That's fine, and it's a useful quantity, but it's not a force itself. Not being a force means you can't use units of N, and you can't use that number in any equations that require force.

It's a bit like saying "oh it's 20degrees today". "If I stand outside for 5 minutes I'll experience a temperature of 20 degrees * 300s = 6000degrees, It'll be as hot as the surface of the sun!"


Edited by kallog (09/30/11 04:44 AM)

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#40452 - 09/30/11 04:59 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Here's an explanation you can't argue with Paul.

1) I make an origami structure out of paper.
2) It's pretty strong, I can put a 8kg bottle of water on it without it collapsing
3) I put a heavier 9kg bottle on it, and it crushes into a pancake
4) I conclude that it can support 80N (weight of 8kg).
5) I insert this structure between the mass and the accelerator. It's like a buffer which the accelerator pushes on instead of directly on the mass.
6) The structure will not collapse during the entire 50s acceleration.
7) Therefore it is not experiencing any force greater than 90N.
8) Therefore there is no 4000N force on it.


Edited by kallog (09/30/11 05:13 AM)

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#40453 - 09/30/11 05:15 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
thats why bridges fall down perhaps.

Yes, if someone parks their car on a bridge, the weight force it applies to the bridge will increase with time. After a few minutes it will have overloaded the bridge and it collapses.

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#40454 - 09/30/11 05:19 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend
In high school, I tied for the 6th highest score in the state on the national math exam.


Hehe, sure. I tied for 15th highest score in the country on the national physics exam.

My score was 86% wink

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#40457 - 09/30/11 02:20 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Originally Posted By: kallog
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend
In high school, I tied for the 6th highest score in the state on the national math exam.


Hehe, sure. I tied for 15th highest score in the country on the national physics exam.

My score was 86% wink


Outstanding! Contrary to Paul's implication, it *seems* to me that we *did* pay attention in math class.

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#40458 - 09/30/11 03:01 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend
Outstanding! Contrary to Paul's implication, it *seems* to me that we *did* pay attention in math class.

Not quite sure how well the meaning is communicated, but I would have shared that tie with thousands of other students :P

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#40461 - 09/30/11 03:56 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Originally Posted By: kallog

Not quite sure how well the meaning is communicated, but I would have shared that tie with thousands of other students


I knew there would have been a big number, but I didn't realize it was so many. I also shared (tied) with (I think) a couple dozen students. Still, it is an outstanding accomplishment. OTOH, it's probably good to state the provisos in case anyone tries to get through this thread.

And the conclusion stands. There's no evidence that either of us didn't pay attention in math class, and some reasonable evidence to the contrary.

My argument to Paul is not "I have master's degree, etc. in math so I must be right."

My argument is that "I have a master's degree in math, etc.; this seems inconsistent with Paul's assertion that I didn't pay attention in math class." (That was only a follow up, tangential point.)

My main argument is that everyone who uses math, INCLUDING the people who derived the formulas that Paul is applying use it in the same way that you and I do. Now that isn't what makes us right. BUT

1) Why use any of the formulas since they were derived by people he thinks are incompetent at math?

1a) If the formulas were derived by bad math, why use them?

2) You guys are wasting time talking about your examples when there is a much more fundamental disagreement. That's not exactly correct ... only you guys can tell whether it's worth your own time, but it SEEMS to me that you can't ever reach agreement when you have such fundamentally different understandings.

3) Some of these things are counter-intuitive (at first), so I don't have an issue with Paul's disagreement. In fact, I had different (but similar) questions about math. These are the kinds of questions that HS students OUGHT to be asking in their math classes, but often don't, because most of them are memorizing.

3a) HOWEVER, when I had *my* issues, I didn't say that everyone else was wrong. Instead I pored over the book, worked problems, consulted other books, interrogated the teachers. I asked, "Why DO they think about it that way?" Sometimes the other kids got irritated (and some of the lower level teachers did too), but generally the teachers in the higher math classes understood my difficulties and helped me navigate my intellectual impasses.

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#40463 - 09/30/11 04:58 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
In high school, I tied for the 6th highest score ,bla,bla,bla,pat myself on the back ,,bla,bla,bla,try to make it look like Im smart, ,bla,bla,bla,

time passes reading about what lead to the following

2 bananas * 2 = 4 bananas.


that is correct
Quote:

2 bananas * 2 bananas = 4 bananas^2

incorrect
Quote:

1 N <> 1 Ns

[not applicable]
the question was about total force applied over time.

Quote:

If you can't understand or at least accept this simple thing, any discussion with kallog or anyone else is wasted.

I wouldnt say that , because it is yourself and kallog who seem incable of discussing physics due to a lack of basic logic.
Quote:

Let's try something even simpler ...
What is 2x * 2x?

2x * 2x = 4x

lets use the following image as an example of how people who arent as smart as you apply there knowlege.



in the image above its both clear and logical that
5 x 5 = 25

now if each of the squares in the image were bananas there would be 25 bananas.

notice that the text in the image does not say 25 squared

it says 5 squared

5^2 = 25

that is basic math.

4^2 = 16

that is basic math.

you need to refresh your math skills.
just because you have attended a school doesnt mean you are smart.
it only shows that you invested time and money to produce a result.
that result would be intelligence.
the amount of inteligence that was produced in you would demand that you first learn the basics of math , which you obviously missed out on.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40464 - 09/30/11 05:37 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
After that 1s, I'm still applying the same 80N force, continuously for all the seconds up to 50.


if you wanted to determine the total force that you applied
in the above how would you put the above into a equation?

in your reply you use the words "cumulative force"
then you accuse me of claiming that total force is a force!!

in the above the only force there is is 80N
if you understand what cumulative force is and you can comprehend it , then you should also understand that the total force or the cumulative force applied to the 100 kg mass to accelerate the 100 kg mass during the 50 seconds would be 4000N

I never said that the force applied was 4000N you claimed that I did.

I used 80N in my calculation.
and I used 50 seconds in my calculation.

lets see you get an answer of 4000N without using the 50 seconds , remember you dont have time to work with.
you can find the acceleration rate
because you already know the force and the mass
and you already know the initial velocity and the final velocity at the end of 1 second which is .8 m/s because you know the acceleration rate of .8 m/s/s and the 100 kg mass will be accelerated to .8 m/s in 1 second , but thats all you can find.

so any total force calculation you can produce will need the time the force is applied to the mass.


lets think about it this way.
its a simple way to decide whos right me or you.

your car gets 1 meter to the gallon.

you need to travel 1000 meters in 50 seconds.

1000 (meters) / 50 (seconds)= 20 (meters per second)

your car gets 1 meter to the gallon.
so your car burns up 20 gallons of gas each second.

what would be the total amount of gas that you should have in your gas tank to travel the 1000 meters in 50 seconds?

my car gets the same mileage as your car

I would make sure I had 1000 gallons in my gas tank because that is the total amount of gas that I calculated that my car requires.

would you only use 80 gallons?

force is any influence that causes a mass to change its momentum.

burning gas can be described as the influence that causes the car to move.

the total amount of influence (gas)in the above is

20 gallons of gas each second x 50 seconds = 1000 gallons of gas

the total amount of force that accelerated the 100 kg mass to a velocity of 40 m/s in 50 seconds was

80N x 50 seconds = 4000N


have you ever considered that it might be your brainwashing that is influencing your logic?

your brain is rejecting things that conflict with the things that you have been taught.

and during this rejection period your brain is incapable of percieving events in a correct manner.

this is evident in the below reply of yours.

Quote:
Here's an explanation you can't argue with Paul.

1) I make an origami structure out of paper.
2) It's pretty strong, I can put a 8kg bottle of water on it without it collapsing
3) I put a heavier 9kg bottle on it, and it crushes into a pancake
4) I conclude that it can support 80N (weight of 8kg).
5) I insert this structure between the mass and the accelerator. It's like a buffer which the accelerator pushes on instead of directly on the mass.
6) The structure will not collapse during the entire 50s acceleration.
7) Therefore it is not experiencing any force greater than 90N.
8) Therefore there is no 4000N force on it.


total force kallog

not constant force.

80N is the constant force.

4000N is the total force

your brain is rejecting basic elements of the event because your brain is trying to devise a way to prove that the idea is wrong.

your brain cant find any logical means of accomplishing this so it relies on humiliation of its opponent and flawed logic.

this is something that is wide spread in the scientific community , it should be abolished as it causes buildings to fall , bridges to fall , and lives to be lost.

the ability to adapt to changes once found seems to be removed by the brainwashing that occurs as a student gets his or her education.

even if everything else that they are taught in school about physics shows that an event is possible , the brainwashing
tells them that the event isnt possible.

therefore all they rely on is what they have learned during the brainwashing and they toss all logic and the remainder of physics including physics math out the window.

judging from the replies you have recently made
that is the current state of rejection that your brain is in.







_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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