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#39507 - 08/15/11 03:07 AM Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
http://www.niwa.co.nz/node/101210

right now the temp is apx 2 C with a South wind at
49 mph at Invercargill, New Zealand

that wind might be north in Australia.


2 inch thick foam , really could come in handy in a few years or sooner.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_15357-23946-7892...&facetInfo=

I had posted a year or so ago that I thought Austrailia would be getting artic type weather in a few years or so , it is now 55 F in Mount Gambier.

I suspect that in a year or so that artic type weather might very well be arriving.

say im crazy if you like , just get prepared.






_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39509 - 08/15/11 03:44 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
I had posted a year or so ago that I thought Austrailia would be getting artic type weather in a few years or so , it is now 55 F in Mount Gambier.


55F isn't arctic type weather. So your prediction was wrong. Unless "in a few years" means "any time in the future". In that case it's not a prediction, so it's meaningless.

Global warming scientists have been saying we should get colder cold and hotter hot eventually. But not sure when or how severe that's supposed to be.

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#39521 - 08/15/11 07:26 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
a "Few" means more than one , my thoughts were that because the ice is melting on top of the antartic the land underneath antartica would be depressurising , causing a cooling effect.

did Australia have any record cold temperatures in 2010 or in 2011?

heres one for 2009

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/29/new-australian-continent-wide-low-record-set-for-april/

Quote:
A new Australian record was set early this morning, a temperature of minus 13 degrees, at Charlotte Pass on the Snowy Mountains.

This is the lowest temperature recorded anywhere in Australia in April and is 13 below the average. Nearby at Perisher it dipped to minus 11 degrees and at the top of Thredbo it dipped to minus 10.

Across the border, on the Victorian Alps April records were broken at Mt Hotham where it chilled to minus eight degrees and Mt Buller and Falls Creek where it got as low as minus seven.


The Charlotte Pass low temperature record above surpassed the below Charlotte Pass low temperature record set in 1994 in
2011

Australia 9.4 C Charlotte Pass, NSW 5758 29 Jun 1994

http://www.weatherexplained.com/Vol-1/Record-Setting-Weather.html#ixzz1V7ygX2a6

and Smack dab in the middle of OZ Alice Springs 6.3 C in july 2010

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...-on-record.html

Quote:
The town, which is used to sweltering in the desert heat, is blanketed by a thick band of cloud, which has been blamed for pushing temperatures down. The mercury rose to just 43.3F (6.3C) by the late afternoon, but the record cannot be confirmed until 9am on Wednesday.
Cold weather is a novelty in Alice Springs, Australia. The previous coldest day was in August 1966 when the maximum temperature reached just 44.6F (7C).
The chilly weather has caused havoc in the town, with charities appealing for donations of blankets and dry bedding for people living rough.
Many Aborigines sleep on the streets or in town camps around Alice Springs, and the cold was making life even more miserable.
Margaret Reilly, social services manager at Tangentyere Council, said some people were taking shelter under a bridge over the Todd River.

"There's no firewood to be had in Alice Springs and there's no blankets to be had in Alice Springs," she said.
"People are in very, very damp, very, very cold situations at the moment.
"We've actually had a family whose tin shed has collapsed and we're trying to find a solution for them.
"So it's pretty desperate."


thus my "just get prepared"

Quote:
So your prediction was wrong


I wouldnt call it a prediction , a warning would be more of what I had in mind , and I based my warning on physics , something that actually could occur.







_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39539 - 08/16/11 05:01 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14531214

Quote:
A cold blast from the Antarctic has brought snow to parts of New Zealand for the first time in almost 40 years.

Wellington airport was forced to close and - according to local media - access to Christchurch's quake-damaged red zone has been blocked.

More snowfalls are expected and the country's Civil Defence is warning people to be prepared.


looking at the clouds and the wind using google earth
gives me the opinion that this could have hit Australia
and that it is entirely possible that this type of weather will hit Australia in the following few years.

New Zealand is almost as close to the Antartic as Australia is and this particular weather is slowly moving towards Australia.

it wouldnt be a bad idea for Australia to put up a advanced warning system of buoys between the Antartic and Australia to measure the temperatures and wind speed , if they dont already have one.






_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39553 - 08/17/11 01:39 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
I wouldnt call it a prediction , a warning would be more of what I had in mind , and I based my warning on physics , something that actually could occur.


But you don't believe in physics. Seems you invoke its name when you want it to support you, and you critisize it when it doesn't support you.

How about honesty? You didn't do any physics, you just imagined that if the ice melts, the pressure drops, and somehow that causes coldness. How much? You don't know, so you didn't do any physics, you just guessed.

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#39554 - 08/17/11 01:52 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
if the ice melts, the pressure drops, and somehow that causes coldness.


dropping pressure actually causes heat!
when your talking about solid rock being able to melt into magma because of reduced pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock

Quote:
Typically, the melting is caused by one or more of three processes: an increase in temperature, a decrease in pressure, or a change in composition.



it is after pressure is removed from everything underneath the melting ice where stuff rubs against the core , or the decreased friction of the rubbing that causes the coolness.

weve already been through this before , theres no reason to do it again , but your welcome to try to understand it if you like , if not its also ok.

you dont have to believe anything I say.
and
I dont have to believe anything you say.

Quote:
How about honesty?


comming from you that is a very strange question.







_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39578 - 08/17/11 05:05 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
I believe you can put your freezers outside in your yard today in mount buller and disconnect the electricity supply.

its 32 F 0 C , I was right it was heading to OZ.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39618 - 08/20/11 01:09 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul

Quote:
How about honesty?


comming from you that is a very strange question.

Have I ever been dishonest? Even once?

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#39622 - 08/20/11 02:59 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136


even once?

OK , how about when you.

added up forces using almost all of them?

------------------------------------------------
post #35130

Move the spaces in the list:


+1 accelerator.
-1 1st turn.

+1 2nd turn.
+2 accelerator.
-3 1st turn.

+3 2nd turn.
+3 accelerator.
-6 1st turn.

+6 2nd turn.
+4 accelerator.
-10 1st turn.


See how each group of 3 forces adds to zero? I've continued your pattern of the accelator's force increasing by 1 each cycle. But you can do that differently if you want, and they still add to zero.

-------------------------------------------------

I can do that also.
only I will use all the forces beginning with the accelerator
and not leaving a turn out as you did.

+1 accelerator.
-1 1st turn.
+1 2nd turn.
the pipe has +1 momentum

+2 accelerator.
-3 1st turn.
+3 2nd turn.
the pipe has +3 momentum

+3 accelerator.
-6 1st turn.
+6 2nd turn.
the pipe has +6 momentum

+4 accelerator.
-10 1st turn.
+10 second turn.
the pipe has +10 momentum

all the turns above cancel each other out.
and the pipe has +10 momentum.

but by being dishonest you can make it look as if you end up with zero.

I must say that was very republican of you !

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39882 - 09/02/11 12:24 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul

+1 accelerator.
-1 1st turn.

+1 2nd turn.
+2 accelerator.
-3 1st turn.


They do add to zero. But it doesn't matter. We established that the idea won't work. You repeatedly claimed that it would. Those were lies.

Don't you wonder why you never implemented any of your ideas? I keep telling you you'll get a Nobel prize. And you will. But you aren't interested in improving the body of scientific knowledge. You just want to fool yourself. Actually trying it will show you it doesn't work and you can't handle such a blow to your ego - even if you never tell anyone, you'll feel like a failure. Better to imagine you're right and keep the truth buried from your sight.

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#39890 - 09/02/11 05:03 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
They do add to zero. But it doesn't matter. We established that the idea won't work. You repeatedly claimed that it would. Those were lies.


you used 5 stages to calculate a 6 stage event.

Quote:

+1 accelerator.
-1 1st turn.

+1 2nd turn.
+2 accelerator.
-3 1st turn.


allow me to fix that for you.

+1 accelerator. = +1
-1 1st turn. = 0
+1 2nd turn. = +1

(+1) + (-1) + (+1) = +1

+2 accelerator. = +3 , +1 from 1st cycle , +2 from accelerator
-3 1st turn. = 0
+3 2nd turn = +3

result = +3 momentum



1)
Quote:
They do add to zero


no they dont - another lie for you.

2)
Quote:
We established that the idea won't work


we never established anything because of your dishonesty.

in an event that has 3 stages for 1 complete event.

you must include all 3 stages and you didnt.

you were adding incomplete events with only 2 stages then adding them together to get zero.

when you make a spill like the one below.

Quote:
Don't you wonder why you never implemented any of your ideas? I keep telling you you'll get a Nobel prize. And you will. But you aren't interested in improving the body of scientific knowledge. You just want to fool yourself. Actually trying it will show you it doesn't work and you can't handle such a blow to your ego - even if you never tell anyone, you'll feel like a failure. Better to imagine you're right and keep the truth buried from your sight.


it only shows that you know Im right and your wrong as usual.
besides I watch fox news network sometimes just to find out what the dishonest politicians are scheming to do.

so Im aware of your type of dishonesty thanks to the republidiots dishonesty.

your mentality on this is as follows.

you work for 1 week and get paid $100.00
you go to the store and buy $100.00 of groceries.
you leave the store and determine that you did no work last week because you have no money.
even though you have $100.00 worth of groceries.









_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39894 - 09/03/11 07:06 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
you used 5 stages to calculate a 6 stage event.

It's irrelevant. Those number don't even apply anyway. I explained that in that thread. But you weren't trying to understand your own idea.

If the accelerator imparts +1 unit of impulse, then the 1st turn will give -2, not -1. I might have made a mistake when I wrote the numbers. Either way we did establish that it won't work. If you don't believe me then show it. You never did.

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#39897 - 09/03/11 04:09 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
All your doing is trying to confuse the facts.
you know as well as I do that the mass will not and cannot impart more momentum than it has due to its movement to the pipe itself.

Quote:
if the accelerator imparts +1 unit of impulse, then the 1st turn will give -2, not -1.


Im talking about the pipes momentum.
not the amount of change in the momentum of the mass as you are.

the mass will still have the same speed as it leaves the first turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mdAvdPhT4

as the mass passes through the 1st turn , the mass will impart only -1 to the pipe , but the change in the masses momentum would not be -2 as you say.

the mass momentum would go from a (-1) to zero then to a (+1)

however you cannot use the change in the mass momentum to determine any change in the pipe speed.

the mass with a +1 momentum then passes through the 2nd turn and imparts a +1 momentum to the pipe.

thus the pipe has +1 momentum after the 1st cycle of 3 events.

1) acceleration = -1 mass momentum, +1 pipe momentum action , reaction
2) 1st turn = +1 mass momentum, -1 pipe momentum action , reaction
3) 2nd turn = -1 mass momentum, +1 pipe momentum action , reaction

result = +1 pipe momentum

1) acceleration = -1 mass momentum, +2 pipe momentum action , reaction
2) 1st turn = +2 mass momentum, -2 pipe momentum action , reaction
3) 2nd turn = -2 mass momentum, +2 pipe momentum action , reaction

result = +2 pipe momentum

etc . etc , etc

this is what you claim you were never capable of understanding so we never did get past this point.

you would need to have several of these timed to achieve constant forward movement.

but you were only interested in stalling the discussion because I can tell your not that stupid.

the cars and motorcycles in the below video are driving around in a circle inside a large barrel , the vehicles are undergoing a constant change in momentum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZOekFFSoWI&feature=related

but you wouldnt use the change in momentum to determine the speed at which the vehicles need to travel in the barrell to keep from falling.

change in momentum is like change in direction.
you are trying to lead the discussion in your favor using change in momentum of the mass which is very misleading dishonest on your part.

we should not be using change in momentum of the mass at all when determining the movement of the pipe itself.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39901 - 09/03/11 08:12 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
If the accelerator imparts +1 unit of impulse, then the 1st turn will give -2, not -1


kallog the mass will not be slowed down in the turn.

if you believe that the mass will impart a -2 to the pipe using only a +1 , and the mass still has any movement at all when it exits the 1st turn then wouldnt that be free energy.

so are you really correct?

Just Think!!!
you pay to accelerate the mass to -1 then
you could get -2 as the mass passes through the 1st turn
and then get a +2 as the mass passes through the 2nd turn
then you could get a -1 after the mass leaves the 2nd turn
WOW thats a 5-1 energy repayment plan.

LOL

which has me wondering if the mass will impart any force to the pipe at all as it passes through the turns?

but it has to !!!
so the only way it couldn't be free energy would be if the
mass suddenly stops half way through the 1st turn and that just wouldn't happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mdAvdPhT4

FREE ENERGY FOLKS!!!











_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#39980 - 09/07/11 02:15 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
kallog the mass will not be slowed down in the turn.

Correct.

Quote:

if you believe that the mass will impart a -2 to the pipe using only a +1 , and the mass still has any movement at


Tell me which step(s) you disagree with:

1) -2 is a measure of the momentum added to the pipe. We can call it -2Ns

2) You can't get free momentum.

3) The system (mass and pipe together) started with zero momentum ...

4) ... so it must maintain zero momentum all the time.

5) After the 1st acceleration the mass has momentum of -1Ns and the pipe has +1Ns

6) After the 1st turn .. I better not finish this until the first steps are confirmed.

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#39982 - 09/07/11 05:41 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
Tell me which step(s) you disagree with:

1) -2 is a measure of the momentum added to the pipe. We can call it -2Ns

2) You can't get free momentum.

3) The system (mass and pipe together) started with zero momentum ...

4) ... so it must maintain zero momentum all the time.

5) After the 1st acceleration the mass has momentum of -1Ns and the pipe has +1Ns

6) After the 1st turn .. I better not finish this until the first steps are confirmed.


1
4
5

-2 was what you wanted to use instead of actual momentum.

in this design / case you cant get free momentum.

the pipe cant maintain zero momentum because the
mass is being accelerated inside the pipe

the mass is pressing against the pipe , and
the pipe is pressing back against the mass
the mass has nothing to press against that would keep the mass from moving or gaining momentum and
the pipe has nothing to press against that is outside the pipe that would keep the pipe from moving or gaining momentum.

the pipe is 500 ft long , the mass accelerates for ( 500 ft ) thus for a longer time than it takes for the mass just to pass through the 1st turn.

so the pipe will move a certain distance and then be brought to a quick stop as the mass passes through the 1st turn.

but the pipe would move.
so zero pipe momentum is not possible.

this is why you would need say 20 masses being accelerated all the time so that their collective push against the pipe in one direction would counteract and overwhelm the much smaller push in the opposite direction of the single mass that is passing through the 1st turn.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#39988 - 09/07/11 08:35 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Quote:

1) -2 is a measure of the momentum added to the pipe. We can call it -2Ns

4) ... so it must maintain zero momentum all the time.

5) After the 1st acceleration the mass has momentum of -1Ns and the pipe has +1Ns


1)
Quote:

-2 was what you wanted to use instead of actual momentum.

Let's change 1) to:
1) The numbers (ignoring their values for now) represent the momentum added to the pipe. We can use the units Ns

4)
Quote:

the pipe cant maintain zero momentum because the
mass is being accelerated inside the pipe

Correct, but we don't need to enforce zero momentum on the pipe, only on the complete system. That means the sum of the momentum of every part (mass and pipe) must equal zero.

Do you agree with 4 now after this clarification?


5) Why not? What values would you use?


Edited by kallog (09/07/11 08:36 PM)

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#40001 - 09/08/11 02:00 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
Do you agree with 4 now after this clarification?

no, because for this discussion the mass is never stopped.

so it always has momentum.

using only 1 set of
1 mass
1 pipe

1 accelerator
1 1st turn
1 2nd turn

the pipe will stop momentarily as the mass passes through the 1st turn and as the mass free floats to the 2nd turn, but the mass will keep moving on to the 2nd turn.
at the 2nd turn the pipe will again move in the same direction.
then the accelerator will accelerate the mass and the pipe will move even further.
then when the mass passes through the 1st turn again the pipe will stop again.

etc.etc.etc.etc.

but the 1 set can be used to discuss its validity.

once we can agree on the 1 set then its not much after that to add enought sets to maintain motion in a certain direction.

not have it start moving travel a distance then stop quickly.
where the pipe only travels a few meters each cycle of 3 events.

the 500 ft lenght is causing me to mess up.
lets use 1000 meters for the pipe distance.
we were using 100 kg for the mass that is accelerated.

and I think the turns were 40 meters , Im not sure.

I told you that the program I made to do the calculations was lost , so I guess I will make another.

does a 1000 meter pipe length seem like a good round number.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#40013 - 09/08/11 10:58 AM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
Do you agree with 4 now after this clarification?

no, because for this discussion the mass is never stopped.


We'll never get anywhere without proper adding of momentum.

Consider another system:
2 identical coins sliding towards each other on a frictionless table top.
Coin 1 has momentum of 1Ns
Coin 2 has momentum of -1Ns


The total momentum of the system is the sum of the two momentums: 1 + -1 = 0

Then the collide and bounce off with some loss.
The total momenum of the system is the sum of the two momentums: -0.5 + 0.5 = 0

Starting again, they collide and both stick together because they have glue on their edges.
The total mometnum of the system is the sum of the two momentums: 0 + 0 = 0

Whatever happens, the total momentum is always 0 because it started as 0 - as long as they don't interact with other things (outside the system) like friction against the table or somebody touching them.


That's like ours except the pipe and mass needn't have the same mass as each other.


Quote:

does a 1000 meter pipe length seem like a good round number.

Yea OK. I hoped to avoid too many numbers because they're so time consuming to work with. It doesn't really matter what the dimensions are. Either it always works or it never works.

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#40017 - 09/08/11 02:16 PM Re: Record Cold in New Zealand 1903 -26.6 C [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
We'll never get anywhere without proper adding of momentum.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: paul
kallog the mass will not be slowed down in the turn.

Originally Posted By: kallog
Correct.


kallog , you agreed that the mass would not loose its speed
as it passes through the 1st turn.
so it would free float to the 2nd turn.
and then it would pass through the 2nd turn.
then enter the accelerator again.

in order for the mass momentum to be zero it must stop.
in order for the total system momentum to be zero the mass cannot be moving.

I ask you WHERE DOES THE MASS STOP?

suppose we consider a spacecraft in space that expends a
burst of energy out its rear end that propels the craft to
a speed of 1000 kph.

the fuel runs out and the spacecraft is not accelerating anymore and nobody is on it , but it just travels forever at 1000kph.

how would you add momentum then.

0+0=0 ?

would the total momentum of the spacecraft be zero even though the spacecraft is moving at 1000 kph?

how do you define momentum?






_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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