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#38915 - 06/30/11 03:07 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: redewenur
Yes, that's right, Hoyle is believed to have applied the name Big Bang in derision, although it wasn't long before supporting evidence blew his own theory out of the water.
I support the theory of expansion as proposed by Lemaitre, I just don't think of it a "bang". After all, animal senses did not evolve until billion of "years" later.

I also support the rational scientific modus operandi as long as we can avoid worshiping at the altar of scientism.

BTW, is there anything inherently wrong with having "heart strings"?

Interestingly, I first read about Hoyle's theory, which he first proposed in 1948, in the winter of 1953/1954--the year I served my first pastoral charge in the squatter's town of Happy Valley-Goose-bay, Newfoundland/Labrador, north of Quebec. 40 degrees below zero F produced beautiful night skies for stargazing. His book was loaned to me by a member of my church. I didn't know why, but I had the feeling that there was something wrong with the theory.
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#38916 - 06/30/11 05:19 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I support the theory of expansion as proposed by Lemaitre, I just don't think of it a "bang". After all, animal senses did not evolve until billion of "years" later.
Okay

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I also support the rational scientific modus operandi as long as we can avoid worshiping at the altar of scientism.

Yes

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
BTW, is there anything inherently wrong with having "heart strings"?

I'm sure you don't really have doubts.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Interestingly, I first read about Hoyle's theory, which he first proposed in 1948, in the winter of 1953/1954...I didn't know why, but I had the feeling that there was something wrong with the theory.

I first read about the theory a few years after that, Rev. I was sure it would turn out to be right.
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#38921 - 07/01/11 03:49 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: redewenur
...
I first read about the theory (proposed by Hoyle) a few years after that, Rev. I was sure it would turn out to be right.
And?
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#38923 - 07/01/11 11:32 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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And it was wrong.
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#38924 - 07/01/11 01:00 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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I felt that Hoyle was wrong because, if he was right then matter is god, which is the view of pantheism. At the time I was only dimly aware of the work of the philosopher and mathematician, Alfred North Whitehead who was one of the originators of process philosophy and theology--panentheism--which I currently hold.


What startling scientific fact cause astronomer Fred Hoyle to abandon atheism?

Here's what astrophysicist Dr. Rodney Holder says on this in:
God, The Big Bang & Bunsen Burning Issues by Nigel Bovey, chap. 15 (Authentic Media 2008)

"The initial phase of the universe (that first fraction of a second from the Big Bang) had to be set up in a very special way in order for stars, galaxies and ultimately life to form. Cosmologist Fred Hoyle did some major work on the nuclear reactions that go on inside stars to form all the chemical elements out of the simplest building block, which is hydrogen. He discovered that there needs to be a very fine balance of the forces in nature in order to make carbon, and then to make oxygen without destroying the carbon.

Although he didn't believe in God, Hoyle said that his work let him to the conclusion that there was a super-intellect behind physics, chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature.

"...The universe is sitting on a knife-edge as to whether it is going to expand for ever or eventually re-collapse. This is to do with how much total mass-energy there is in the universe. If there is more than a certain critical value, then gravity will pull the universe back and it will re-collapse. If there is less than that critical value, then gravity won't be sufficient to pull the universe back, and it will expand fore ever.

"Right back at the beginning, the universe needed to be very close to that knife-edge in order for stars, galaxies and planets to form. The mass-energy needed to be what it was to within 1 part in 10/60 (that's ten with sixty noughts after it). That kind of accuracy would be the same as firing a gun from one end of the universe to the other (some ten billion light years away) and hitting a coin you were aiming at.

The question is: Was that a lucky shot or are you a brilliant marksman? Likewise, is the fine balance of the universe a lucky happenstance or is there a brilliant designer behind it? I believe that there's a brilliant designer behind it."
Source(s):

http://tribes.tribe.net/mindovermadness/thread/c9d0105e-8cf1-4537-8cd2-34060e885834
Quote:
Ex-atheist, Lee Strobel said, "Essentially, I realized that to stay an atheist, I would have to believe that nothing produces everything; non-life produces life; randomness produces fine-tuning; chaos produces information; unconsciousness produces consciousness; and non-reason produces reason. Those leaps of faith were simply too big for me to take . . ."
With no intention of being doctrinaire, here is my personal solution: GOD, like all that is ultimately, creatively and gloriously real, is no thing and you and I are one in, and with, IT. Things are the toys we create when, like the children we are, we just want to have some fun. Loving fun--the kind that brings true joy to us and others, at no ones expense, is my idea of heaven. How about it? What is your idea?



Edited by Revlgking (07/01/11 01:18 PM)
Edit Reason: Always a good idea!
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#38926 - 07/01/11 04:34 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
With no intention of being doctrinaire, here is my personal solution: GOD, like all that is ultimately, creatively and gloriously real, is no thing and you and I are one in, and with, IT. Things are the toys we create when, like the children we are, we just want to have some fun. Loving fun--the kind that brings true joy to us and others, at no ones expense, is my idea of heaven. How about it? What is your idea?

My idea? There is existence. Existence is everything, and everything is existence. There is no existence behind existence. All is one.
Yes, of course, we humans do have the capacity to experience and share beauties and wondrousness, loves and joys. Needless to say, we value these experiences.
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#38927 - 07/01/11 10:50 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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[quote=redewenur ...My idea? There is existence. Existence is everything, and everything is existence. There is no existence behind existence.

All is one.

Yes, of course, we humans do have the capacity to experience and share beauties and wondrousness, loves and joys. Needless to say, we value these experiences. [/quote] To me, this sounds like we have similar values.
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#38960 - 07/06/11 11:23 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Redewenur, you say,
Quote:
..My idea? There is existence. Existence is everything, and everything is existence. There is no existence behind existence.

All is one.

Yes, of course, we humans do have the capacity to experience and share beauties and wondrousness, loves and joys. Needless to say, we value these experiences.
Helpful comments, Redewenur. Thanks!

Let's have a dialogue about a number of things. To begin with, would you be offended if I asked:

What do you have in mind, when you say ?: "Existence is everything, and everything is existence."


Edited by Revlgking (07/06/11 11:25 PM)
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#38963 - 07/07/11 06:52 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
What do you have in mind, when you say "Existence is everything, and everything is existence."

I have in mind literally everything, both the physical and the intangible emergent.
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#38967 - 07/08/11 03:59 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Tangible. Our word comes directly from the Latin, tangere, touch. Does anyone know which of the senses developed first? Do we have just five senses? Is there such a thing as a sixth sense? Or even a seventh ...?
http://leavingbio.net/THE%20SENSES_files/THE%20SENSES.htm
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#38968 - 07/08/11 05:32 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Loc: Australia
Interesting question, Rev. Certainly touch seems to be the last sense to go---and the first that a baby recognises or responds to (almost immediately after birth). People who are very sensorily disabled also respond to touch even if they have no response to any other sensory stimulation.

But I do not know which sense historically developed first, and I doubt if it would be possible to find out. At what stage in our development to humaness would the assessment be taken?

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#38976 - 07/09/11 12:22 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Bill S. Offline
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Given the distinct probability that we evolved from single-celled organisms, it is difficult to imagine any of the accepted 5 senses developing before touch. That just leaves the 6th sense and beyond, which would be pure speculation.
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#38983 - 07/09/11 04:11 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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THE IMPORTANCE OF THE SENSE OF TOUCH
Teaching The Blind Through The Sense Of Touch
Just as the deaf can often enjoy music quite a lot, beauty can indeed be experienced by the blind. The sense of touch can often be of great assistance to those with visual impairments. Many blind people can notice imperfections in things that they touched, which the associate with ugliness. For them, objects are much more beautiful if they are even and smooth, things with roughness or with a crack would cause some discomfort.

The thing about imagination is that it requires some previous knowledge in order to construct an image in your head of what you are trying to imagine. We need reference points. The blind often can not experience imagination because they do not have points of reference....

http://sped.wikidot.com/teaching-the-blind-through-the-sense-of-touch
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#38989 - 07/10/11 05:04 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Oh, I see that the redundant word 'intangible' has spawned a tangential topic. Is that the butterfly effect? smile
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#39054 - 07/16/11 02:54 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: redewenur
Oh, I see that the redundant word 'intangible' has spawned a tangential topic. Is that the butterfly effect? smile
If one butterfly has an effect, what kind of effect do billions of butterflies, not to mention us and other living creatures, have?

Quote:
The Butterfly Effect is a 2004 American drama/thriller film written and directed by Eric Bress and J. Mackye Gruber and starring Ashton Kutcher and Amy Smart. The title refers to the metaphorical butterfly effect, a popular principle in chaos theory which states that in any dynamic system, small initial differences may over time lead to large unforeseen consequences.

ABOUT THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Butterfly_Effect
ABOUT CHAOS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
Quote:
GENESIS 1:2 (The poet describes chaos)
...the earth was formless and desolate. The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness ...

LET THERE BE CONSCIOUSNESS
Billions of years after chaos came out of nothing, there was a new beginning.

One, or was it two--our first mother and father, evolved to the point where they became aware that they were aware of the blazing light of consciousness. Mother said to father: I am, you are, but who are we? And what are we going to do about all this chaos? And father said: Let us make history. And they did!

But history took hundreds of thousands of years just to get started. So here we are ...
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#39070 - 07/17/11 06:44 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Bill S. Offline
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Or could that have been: "And what are we going to do about all this chaos? And father said: Let us make lots more. And they did!"
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#39073 - 07/17/11 08:13 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Or could that have been: "And what are we going to do about all this chaos? And father said: Let us make lots more. And they did!"
Was the father a political economist perhaps?

AS AN OLD STORY GOES
Way back at a social gathering, after a prostitute claimed to be a member of the World's oldest profession, a surgeon and MD spoke up and said:

"Hold it! Who do you think helped God do the surgery so that he could make our mother Eve--the first woman--out of that rib of Adam?"

"But" said the engineer, "Don't forget! Before this there was nothing but chaos. Who do you think helped God bring order out of chaos? It was engineers. Don't forget the engineers!"

Then unspoke the political economist: "And, who do you think created chaos?"
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#39855 - 09/01/11 07:41 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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I just got back from an excellent two-week vacation and visit to the west coast of Vancouver Island. My wife and I flew from Toronto to Tofino, BC, Canada--a very interesting salmon-fishing town, and a resort area.

Our daughter, Catherine, is in her early fifties. She is an artist (writing, painting and carving) and lives with her artist husband in a house and garden complex that floats in a salt-water cove. The complex is a living work of art 20 years in the making and attract hundreds of visitors from all over the world. It has been featured in magazines and in TV documentaries in Canada, the USA, France, Germany and many other countries.

To get an idea of what it looks like, do a search on: Floating homes, Freedom Cove, Tofino, BC.
Here is an example of what we saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqbfiejLdM

It is good to be back in this forum and others like it.


Edited by Revlgking (09/01/11 07:52 AM)
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#39956 - 09/06/11 05:22 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Bill S. Offline
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Interesting link, Rev. Is it always that calm?
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#39957 - 09/06/11 05:53 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Bill S.]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Rev,
To my recollection that's the most interesting post in this thread - among the more interesting on the forum. Your daughter and husband have done very well and you have a right to be proud of them.

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