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Originally Posted By: Ellis
...OK REV--it seems we now know what is not GOD. Perhaps now you could explain what is the state that we can recognize as 'the existence of godness'.
POTENTIALLY, IMSO (In my sincere opinion), WE ARE FREE TO BE GOD-LIKE--if we so choose.

OK, Ellis: I apologize if this response is rather too long, but it is for both you and Kallog.

Instead of achieving "godness", as you put it, I like to think we are here and free to choose to be GOD-like, or NOT. Use Good/Nature-like, if you prefer.

I agree that, physically speaking, nature can be a very cruel master. This is especially true if we are ignorant of the laws of nature. Or worse still, if we consciously choose to be ignorant of and willfully blind about the physical, mental and spiritual laws of all of life, not just the natural sciences.

I am well aware that we are free to remain at DOG-like (diabolic, ominous and gruesome)--level of evolution. And I am not speaking disparagingly of well-loved and trained pets. But keep in mind that nature in the raw is red in tooth and claw. It is no Disney movie about Bambi.

Scientists agree that it was late on in the process of evolution that BIGger brains, especially in our animal-like human ancestors, began to evolve in response to the new challenges to survival posed by new circumstances. Perhaps spirituality began when our ancestors started to use artistic symbols--which later became writing--to keep a record of who they were on the walls of their caves--the beginning of history and religion.

http://www.youramazingbrain.org/insidebrain/brainevolution.htm

THE FOLLOWING ESSAY JUST CAME TO ME, TODAY--EXCELLENT STUFF!

IMSO (In my sincere opinion), right now we are on the cusp of a new evolutionary potential. Take a look at this essay below:

Born on Earth:
Sexuality, Spirituality, and Human Evolution
Marina T. Romero and Ramon V. Albareda

Our main intention in this article is to shed light on certain aspects of the present moment in human evolution. More concretely, we want to identify a new evolutionary potential from the perspective of the historical development of human consciousness. Before we describe this new evolutionary potential, however, it is essential to say some words about the nature and origin of the following reflections. Our article is not the product of a theoretical study, but an attempt to convey some of the fruits that we have harvested during several decades of lived, practically-based inquiry, with the help of the experience of hundreds of individuals in healing and psycho-spiritual processes....

A New Evolutionary Potential
A new evolutionary potential is currently available to human beings. For the first time in human history, we believe it is possible to integrate what we call the “dark energy” with the “energy of consciousness,” not only in isolated or extraordinary individuals, but also on a collective level. The dark energy is the source and organizing principle of what we call the “vital-primary” dimension of life. Its quality is dense, and its state of unity is amorphous and undifferentiated 2. ...

http://participatorystudies.com/2011/03/22/born-on-earth-sexuality-spirituality-and-human-evolution/

====================
IMSO, the only verb I feel comfortable using when I speak of GOD is the verb 'to be': GOD is.

Therefore, like John I say, GOD is Love--the highest good. Also, GOD is Light, Life, Lever, Liberty, Limitless, Luxury, Lucidity, Lyrical, Laureate, Luck, Longevity, Logos, Logical, long-suffering and the like.

All we need to do is agree to take action and connect with this highest good. Thus all the physical, mental and spiritual supply we need will come when we are truly ready to receive it.

DON'T FORGET TO FEED YOUR SPIRIT
Just as food, water and air are there to feed our bodies; philosophy, knowledge, wisdom and the sciences are there to feed our minds, the arts--including our personal, social and cultural relationships are in this category--are there to feed the soul/spirit (pneuma).

If you bristle at the idea of using the 'god-word', invent your own word. What you do about the process is what counts.However we do it, one would be foolish to miss out on the greatest and best adventure life offers. All together now: HERE'S TO LIFE!


Last edited by Revlgking; 06/13/11 02:09 AM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
OK, tell me! I'm curious enough to ask: How would you answer some of my questions?


I'll use the example answer I gave in my previous post


Last edited by kallog; 06/12/11 11:02 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Instead of achieving "godness", as you put it, I like to think we are here and free to choose to be GOD-like, or NOT. Use Good/Nature-like, if you prefer.

As you said, nature can be cruel. So killing somebody is also GOD-like? It's certainly nature-like, even for modern humans. Can you be more clear on what GOD-like means? How about list some specific examples of GOD-like things and non-GOD-like things.



Quote:

right now we are on the cusp of a new evolutionary potential. Take a look at this essay below:

I decline to follow that up because it's getting away from the topic.


Quote:

IMSO, the only verb I feel comfortable using when I speak of GOD is the verb 'to be': GOD is.

GOD can't do anything? Or you feel uncomfortable talking about GOD doing things?

Quote:

Therefore, like John I say, GOD is Love--the highest good. Also, GOD is Light, Life, Lever, Liberty, Limitless, Luxury, Lucidity, Lyrical, Laureate, Luck, Longevity, Logos, Logical, long-suffering and the like.

We already established that. GOD is everything plus some more. It's also Lawrence of Arabia, limpet mines, money, outer space, stones, hunger, hatred, and everything else.


Quote:

All we need to do is agree to take action and connect with this highest good. Thus all the physical, mental and
spiritual supply we need will come when we are truly ready to receive it.

The need to agree to connect with GOD will cause us to get all the physical supply we need when we are ready to receive it? You have to explain what "truly ready to receive it" means. I want to be stronger and more intelligent, but it hasn't happened. Why am I not "truly ready to receive it"? I havn't agreed to take action, but that's not your requirement, only the need to do so. Or do I not need to?? I really can't make any sense of what you wrote.

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Originally Posted By: kallog
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
OK, tell me! I'm curious enough to ask: How would you answer some of my questions?


I'll use the example answer I gave in my previous post
You will? When?


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Quote:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Instead of achieving "godness", as you put it, I like to think we are here and free to choose to be GOD-like, or NOT. Use Good/Nature-like, if you prefer.


Quote:
As you said, nature can be cruel.

So killing somebody is also GOD-like?


In my opinion, it isn't. BTW, thanks for using the dialogue-method. I find it a very effective way of having a productive conversation.

Think of the acronym, GOD, as somewhat like the acronym, CBC (Canada Broadcasting Corp). The CBC doesn't really bring us all those programs--good, bad and indifferent, people do. Good news, bad news whatever, are created by people and brought to us by people. As Mark Twain put it: "The problems with humanity, is humanity."


Quote:
Can you be more clear on what GOD-like means?


Let's see if I can do this by having us take a look on the way monotheism (theism is a short form of it), deism and polytheism use the god-word. Polytheism is the belief in any number of deities. The ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, to mention just a few polytheistic empires were very religious. Many modern Hindus are still polytheistic.

The polytheisms, along with having their own mythologies and rituals, have always had--modern ones still do--gods and goddesses, for everything and for every occasion under the sun--often assembled into a pantheon of gods.

In English we usually capitalize only the name. For example, Zeus was the king of the gods in Athens.
http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Ares.html

The name used in Rome was Jupiter.

The monotheisms, like for example, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, got rid of the gods and goddesses by rolling them all into one. This is the one we capitalize as God--a proper noun, not to be confused with GOD--not a One, but the oneness of all that is.

So the Book Of Genesis begins with the verse: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." It goes on to tell the story--I call it a mythical story--of how He--no mention is made of a goddess-like wife, a She--created everything in six days.

For Judaism, God was, and is, The One Perfect Being who was, and is an absolute and omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient--that is, the omni-everything who was a supernatural and fatherly-like being. It looks like that God was just about ready to create a perfect kingdom made up of perfect men, women and their perfect children over which he would be the king. It looked like that all would be sweetness, light and happiness, forever and ever.

But take a look what happened very early in the Bible story. The third chapter begins with the ominous words: "Now the snake was the most cunning animal that the Lord God had made." Then the snake asked the woman, "Did God really tell you not to eat fruit from any tree in the Garden."We may eat the fruit of any tree in the Garden," the woman answered, "except the tree in the middle of it. God told us not to eat the fruit of that tree or even touch it; if we do we will die."

The snake replied, "That's not true; you will not die. God said that because he knows that when you eat it, you will be like God and know what is good and what is bad."

EXILED FROM EDEN--THE GARDEN OF PLEASURE
The story goes on to tell us that Eve risked her life to get rid of ignorance and to become wise. Adam also took the same risk. The disobedience of God by Adam and Eve did help them get rid of ignorance and to gain wisdom, but life was no longer all pleasure. Because of their disobedience they were driven from Eden.

THE TREE OF LIFE
Thus they lost the opportunity to eat the fruit of the tree of life and live forever. Life was now filled with suffering, pain and even death, as the story of their sons, Cain and Abel (Cain killed Abel), make clear. Interestingly is made that God ever destroyed Eden or the three of life.

THE BIBLE AS LITERATURE.
I take the above story, and perhaps most of the numerous Bible stories--including the stories of the Christian era--as literature, not as history to be taken literally. Indeed much of what we call history is open to question.

======================================
Quote:
How about listing some specific examples of GOD-like things and non-GOD-like things.
IMSO, most good thing we do--especially when we do them for help people we do not particularly like--that is motivated by Agape/Love and carried out under the principle of the Golden Rule are most likely GOD-like things.

Quote:
Kallog, you ask me about: Non GOD-like things?


OK! Non GOD-like things--including things, which on the surface may appear to be good--are those which are motivated by pride or shame. They are things done selfishly and just to get praise, credit and rewards.


Last edited by Revlgking; 06/13/11 10:03 PM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: kallog
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
OK, tell me! I'm curious enough to ask: How would you answer some of my questions?


I'll use the example answer I gave in my previous post
You will? When?


Haha, OK, now. I prefer to keep those things private.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Let's see if I can do this by having us take a look on the way monotheism (theism is a short form of it) ...Cain and Abel (Cain killed Abel), make clear. Interestingly is made that God ever destroyed Eden or the three of life.

I don't see how that's related to GOD. ??


Quote:
OK! Non GOD-like things--including things, which on the surface may appear to be good--are those which are motivated by pride or shame. They are things done selfishly and just to get praise, credit and rewards.


OK. So GOD-like is kind of a special case of doing good things.

But you say doing things to get rewards doesn't count. I heard of some psychological theory that says people do good deeds to strangers because it give them a good feeling - that is, doing things for others is really just to give ourselves pleasure. That blurs the line between doing things selfishly and selflessly.

Perhaps one way to see the distinction might be suppose you find somebody with a flat tyre and they're not able to replace it themselves. You stop to help them. But while you're getting ready to fix it, somebody else comes along and also wants to help. You pass the job over to them and leave. In that case you're not personally helping the person who's stuck, so you wouldn't get the satisfaction. But it's GOD-like because the person ends up having their problem solved because of your actions. It's also doubly GOD-like because you're giving somebody else the satisfaction of helping a stranger.

But what if doing it that way makes you feel good about being GOD-like? In that case it's defeated, and you were really acting selfishly.



Anyway, so this is about GOD-like, which I think it a poor choice of word because it doesn't mean being like GOD. It really has no connection with GOD at all. It's two separate concepts. Right?


Last edited by kallog; 06/14/11 02:24 AM.
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My point is this: From the beginning, we were, and still are, in on the whole process--from simplicity to complexity--we call creation. We were, and still are in on the doing of good and evil. There was, and is, no god or devil out there who helps us do it, or who makes us do it.

THEISM
Theism teaches: In the beginning there was a perfect and supernatural being called God. Then out of nothing, in six days he created everything, including Adam and Eve--the ancestors of all humanity. Nothing is said about there being other planets like earth.

It was on the sixth day God said, "And now we will make human beings; they will be like us and resemble us." Theistic Bible scholars have no answer to the question: To whom is God talking when He says, "we" and "us". Were there other divine beings?

The God of theism had all the power and resources to create and become the ruler of a perfect world populated with perfect and god-like human beings. We could have had a heaven on earth. But God allowed people to be gods or devils. Unfortunately, while he gave them the power to become devils, which many are, he did not give them the power to become gods. According to the Bible story, he later regretted this. The Bible even says "he repented" that is, changed his mind. Then he promised to send one who would save them. Christians call this one, Jesus Christ, the son of God.

So we ended up with many ignorant and morally-weak and sinful human beings who have made the world almost a hell on earth. So here we are!

ATHEISM
Atheists say: To this day, there is no evidence that there ever was, or is, such a god, or other divine beings separate and apart from us. The whole story of all the many different kinds of theism rests on people having the faith to believe it. Until all theists all say the same thing and prove that there is a god who exists. In all honesty, we cannot take the God-hypothesis seriously. Some atheists--especially the militant kind--say that all religions are nothing more than illusions. All religionists are neurotics and many a even psychotic. See Sigmund Freud's book, The Future of an Illusion.
http://www.yoism.org/?q=node/102
Summary:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/FreudFuture.html

UNITHEISM
Unitheism--some use the word, panentheism--unlike theism, says simply: GOD is!

IMSO, there never was a god who created a Garden of Eden. This story, like the Santa Claus story, is based on myth.

But if we can accept that GOD is all that which is in, through and around that which we call existence, which is like a complex work of art--perhaps in the form of a well illustrated story book (including poetry and music)--a work of art in progress and in the process of becoming and evolving to greater and greater utility and beauty.

WITH A NOD OF RESPECT TO RENE DESCARTES--
Who famously said, "I think, therefore, I am..." I write:
==================================

I am, therefore, I'm one with GOD-like power

I have the power to think of anything I choose.

I can choose that I'll be sad,

Or be very, very glad and in the pink;

Or deep down in the blues.

To be, or not to be, is always up to me;

As I learn how to live right NOW.

LGK


Collectively speaking, we--that is, all good, honest and true philosophers (of all ages), scientists and artists--are all co-creators in this wonderful and eternal process we call life. (More to on this and the practical value of unitheist thinking).



Last edited by Revlgking; 06/14/11 05:34 AM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
My point is this: From the beginning, we were, and still are, in on the whole process--from simplicity to complexity--we call creation.

Huh? That's again totally different from what you've been talking about.

Quote:

There was, and is, no god or devil out there who helps us do it, or who makes us do it.

So why have GOD?


Quote:

THEISM
Theism teaches: In the beginning there was a perfect and
...
and many a even psychotic. See Sigmund Freud's book, The Future of an Illusion.

Please don't write so much! I'm trying to understand your GOD. I already have the general idea how conventional religions work. If you could be as clear as that about your GOD that would be interesting!


I've picked up these points from your message. Let me know if it's what you're trying to say:

The universe is like a work of art in progress.
It's changing from simple to complex.
We people are influencing that change.
GOD doesn't guide us or force us.

Still GOD is just thrown in there with no apparent connection to anything else. Why is it there?


How about this. Imagine going back through all your posts and deleting every reference to GOD. Do you think it would make a difference to their meaning? Could you have conveyed the same ideas without GOD? You could keep GOD-like because that's a reference to a human behavior, not GOD.

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Kallog, it seems to me that you want a god of whom you can make an image. Is this so?

You say,"The universe is like a work of art in progress." I agree.

You say,"It's changing from simple to complex."

To which I will add: As more and more of us agree to practice the art of working together in the spirit of cooperation and loving service--that is agape-love--it will get better and better. But only is becoming a better, evolving and become for

You say, "We people are influencing that change." Very much so! And the more of us that do so, the better.

"GOD doesn't guide us or force us."

Again, you are trying to think of a god of whom you can make and image, agreed?

Rhetorically, I ask: Does air force us to breathe? Does power force us to use it? Do knowledge and wisdom force us to learn and be wise? Do space and time force us to be and live within it? Of course not, they are all at our service. Are we humans so willfully blind and arrogant so as not to see this?

I wrap all these things and concepts into one LOGOS (conceptual idea, or word)and call IT GOD. Interestingly, the Gospel of John begins with: "In the beginning was the word." I find this a very practical use of the "word" GOD. Is there anything wrong with using such a convenient acronym?

IMSO--my sincere opinion--GOD is that which wants to be of service from within us and from beyond us. The more of us who catch on to this and see it as a great example worth imitating, the sooner we will create that beautiful garden out of which our mythical first-parents were cast by a mythical God.

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/14/11 02:56 PM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Kallog, it seems to me that you want a god of whom you can make an image. Is this so?

I have no idea what you mean by "image". I don't want a picture I can draw. I want information that describes it, that can be built up into a cohesive "image", but of course not a graphical one. Without that, you can't pretend it's even an idea. So yes I want to be able to make an image.

Until now you still haven't added anything more to the idea than that GOD is nature.


Quote:

Rhetorically, I ask: Does air force us to breathe? Does power force us to use it? Do knowledge and wisdom force us

I still can't understand what you're trying to say. GOD guides us, right? Just as a role model might guide a child. It doesn't do anything, the baseball player doesn't even know the kid who's trying to be like him. But just thinking about it provides the guidance, right? Or is it not that?



Quote:

IMSO--my sincere opinion--GOD is that which wants to be of service from within us and from beyond us. The more of us

"wants"? You criticize me when I talk like that. Please be consistent. GOD cannot want anything because it's not a conscious being.

Quote:

out of which our mythical first-parents were cast by a mythical God.


Rev, these are things which really waste time and don't help illuminate the GOD idea. Worse they are aggrivating. I would appreciate it if you avoid using them when writing to me:
- Bible quotes
- What GOD isn't
- Definitions or histories of words
- Recommendations on what people should do (preaching)
- History stories
- Analogies. But given the nature of the topic, this might be unavoidable. However often there are English words that can be used instead.
- Sarcasm/rhetorical questions
- Judgments about what I'm thinking
- Overloaded words whose meaning can't be determined. If you have a complex meaning, explain it with more or more specific words.

Last edited by kallog; 06/15/11 01:55 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Kallog, it seems to me that you want a god of whom you can make an image. Is this so?


Poster: kallog:
Quote:
I have no idea what you mean by "image". I don't want a picture I can draw.
But then you say:
Quote:
So yes, I want to be able to make an image.
Now you are contradicting what you just said. Are you having a problem making up your mind?

Quote:
Until now you still haven't added anything more to the idea than that GOD is nature.
Are you not forgetting something? I don't call it "nature". I call it GOD. I think of GOD as Over-all non-material Being that includes matter and nature but is in no way confined to them.

If you find it impossible to hold this idea in your mind, then say so. Perhaps the truth is: you simply choose not to hold this idea in your mind. Again, if this is so: Simply say so.

Quote:
I want information that describes it, that can be built up into a cohesive "image"...
Describe what you mean by "image". Is it something I can draw? Or, of which I can take a picture? Is it concrete? Or abstract?

IDEALISM
I assume you realize you are using the language of "idealism". Are you thinking of objective idealism? Or subjective idealism? When helpful, I usually use both.

As a GOD-like person, When I do art, I use my imagination to build a physical painting based on what I call GOD-like non-material ideas, which, in Greek, is called LOGOS--the idea behind what physically is... It is up to you to build yours

Quote:
... Without that, you can't pretend it's even an idea.
Idea? OK, let's talk about ideas. Are all ideas the same size? How much does your idea of whatever weigh? How big a box does it take to hold a small idea?

THE BOTTOM LINE, FOR ME IS
Will it, like agape/love be and do good for all concerned, including me? If so, it is GOD-like. If not, it is something I will do my best to avoid as the evil, or sin (deliberate evil), it is.

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/15/11 12:07 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Now you are contradicting what you just said. Are you having a problem making up your mind?

It's not a contradiction. A mental image is not necessarily graphical like a painting. For example a manager may have an image of the structure of an organization, but it doesn't appear in his mind as a tree diagram or views of offices. It's just abstract. It may include different concepts which can't be represented graphically but are still connected in the structure in his mind.


Quote:
Are you not forgetting something? I don't call it "nature". I call it GOD. I think of GOD as Over-all non-material Being that includes matter and nature but is in no way confined to them.

Yes I have trouble understanding that. What else can there be besides nature? I assume we accept that man-made things count as natural in this context.


Quote:

THE BOTTOM LINE, FOR ME IS
Will it, like agape/love be and do good for all concerned, including me? If so, it is GOD-like. If not, it is something I will do my best to avoid as the evil, or sin (deliberate evil), it is.

OK, sure. But how is that connected with GOD? I see two distinct ideas - GOD and GOD-like. If you never had the GOD, would GOD-like still be just as satisfactory?


Last edited by kallog; 06/15/11 04:22 PM.
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Revlgking, revising my original post I asked: Are you not forgetting something?
I don't call GOD "nature". I prefer just using GOD. I can conceive of GOD as Over-all and non-material being, not 'a' being. All we call nature exists in GOD.

IMSO, as non-material being, GOD includes and interpenetrates matter and nature. G0d in nature, and in us, accounts for the process we call evolution. Now that our physical bodies have evolved to the level that we are conscious of our consciousness, we have reached the point where we now have a golden opportunity.

This opportunity is of the same magnitude as that when minerals evolved into plants; plants into animals; animals into prehistoric human-like beings and then into homo sapiens--cromagnon man and the like who became us.

The practical implication of all this is: By the simple act of GOD-like will (love) you and I can speed up this evolutionary process; improve our ability to make the right and natural selections; overcome pain, suffering, and I hope and believe, that we can demonstrate that there truly is life after death of the body.

This could mean that there is available to us a new and Star-Trek like or spiritual body. In this body we will really begin to take that trek into what we no call outer space, and go where no one has gone before.

But, if we, as an individuals, refuse to make this choice, consciously and freely, we will miss out on this golden opportunity. Do you still insist on saying:
Quote:
Yes, I have trouble understanding that.
Perhaps you resist too much! smile
Quote:
What else can there be besides nature?
LOTS! in my opinion
Quote:
I assume we accept that man-made things count as natural in this context.
Of Course!
THE BOTTOM LINE, FOR ME IS
I Will it. I use agape/love to be and do good for all concerned, including myself. When we do this, it is GOD-like. If not, it is something I will do my best to avoid as the evil, or sin (deliberate evil), it is.

Quote:
Quote:
OK, sure. But how is that connected with GOD?
In an infinite number of ways.
Quote:
I see two distinct ideas - GOD and GOD-like. If you never had the GOD...would GOD-like still be just as satisfactory
I can use both, as needed.


Last edited by Revlgking; 06/16/11 06:54 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
animals; animals into prehistoric human-like beings and then into homo sapiens--cromagnon man and the like who became us.

The practical implication of all this is: By the simple act of GOD-like will (love) you and I can speed up this evolutionary process; improve our ability to make the right

So is it something like this?: Evolution is part of GOD. Evolution leads to good things. So doing good things is being GOD-like.

A weakness in that is that evolution doesn't necessarily lead to good things. Evolution created people's desire to do bad things. Wouldn't it be equally fair to say that bad things are part of GOD, therefore being GOD-like means doing bad things? We should all try to be as un-GOD-like as possible so we can retard the evolution of bad qualities in people.




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What else can there be besides nature?
LOTS! in my opinion

Such as?



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OK, sure. But how is that connected with GOD?

In an infinite number of ways.

More examples or clarification please.

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Originally Posted By: kallog
So is it something like this?: Evolution is part of GOD. Evolution leads to good things. So doing good things is being GOD-like?
Of course! But, because we are conscious beings this gives us the ability to have free-will. We are free to choose to be vicious DOG-like (diabolic, ominous and gruesome-kind of beings) or we can choose otherwise.

IMO, Unlike animals, human beings are not just puppets of our DNA--puppets dancing on the strings of our heredity and environment--nature and nurture--unless we choose to be so.
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A weakness in that is that evolution doesn't necessarily lead to good things. Evolution created people's desire to do bad things.

Wouldn't it be equally fair to say that bad things are part of GOD, therefore being GOD-like means doing bad things? We should all try to be as un-GOD-like as possible so we can retard the evolution of bad qualities in people.
Good idea, if it works. But I doubt it.
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What else can there be besides nature?
LOTS! in my opinion.
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Such as?
The total universe.
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OK, sure. But how is that connected with GOD?

In an infinite number of ways.
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More examples, or clarification, please.
OK, tell us what you know about holograms and holography. Then we can chat further.

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/16/11 10:22 PM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
IMO, Unlike animals, human beings are not just puppets of our DNA--puppets dancing on the strings of

Animals are just as part of GOD as humans are. And they evolved in the same way we did. How can you make such a distinction? Animals also have free will. They make decisions just as we do. Maybe their decisions are based on simpler reasons, but it's still decisions.

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The total universe.

To me that's still nature.

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OK, tell us what you know about holograms and holography. Then we can chat further.

Not a lot. Just say what you want to say. I can look up technicalities if I need to.

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Kallog, about us and animals, I should have put it this way: Unlike the animal kingdom, of which I agree we are a part, human beings--that is, self-conscious and rational beings--have. IMSO, evolved to the point that, if we so choose, we have the ability to use reason in such a way so as not be victims of, or dominated by, our emotions. We can choose to be more than stimulus-response kind of puppets of our genes and aDNA--dancing on the strings of instincts--our heredity and environment.

You say,
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...animals are just as (much a) part of GOD as humans are.
Of course they are. And all things are part of GOD. BTW, I am glad that you and I agree here.
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And some animals are better behaved than many two-legged animals we call human?
And they evolved in the same way we did....
Again I agree. Then you go on
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Animals also have free will. They make decisions just as we do.
I respect your opinion, but I would not go so far as to say, "just as we do".
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Maybe their decisions are based on simpler reasons, but it's still decisions.
I will agree that nature and the total universe are one and the same but, IMSO, both are in GOD.

ABOUT HOLOGRAMS, you say that you do not know a lot about them; that you can "look up technicalities if I need to." [/quote] So far, what have you found?

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/18/11 03:58 AM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
that nature and the total universe are one and the same but, IMSO, both are in GOD.

OK, so what else is in GOD? If nothing else then we can say GOD is nature which is the total universe.

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ABOUT HOLOGRAMS, you say that you do not know a lot about them; that you can "look up technicalities if I need to." So far, what have you found?


Nothing. I'm waiting for you to explain how GOD can contain things that aren't part of nature. I'll look up what I need to when the time comes. If you feel there's an important concept that needs to be understood first, then tell me what it is. Bear in mind that this is one of the most fundamental points of your religion. So far you have not once explained it (that I saw).

I'm getting ready to give up again. I just have two simple questions that you repeatedly refuse to answer:

1. What is the difference between GOD and nature?
2. What is the connection between GOD and GOD-like, or any other aspect of human behavior that you have associated with GOD. This should be different from anything that's already established by science.

I tried making it easier by breaking them down into more simple, specific questions, but that didn't help.


Without answers, your entire religion reduces to "I recommend that people be good to each other".

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Originally Posted By: kallog

I tried making it easier by breaking them down into more simple, specific questions...
Simple questions?

GOD-TALK WITH CHILDREN--great fun, if done sincerely and honestly

My oldest son was born in 1958. His sister was born in 1956. When he was almost six, one day he asked me about god. What an opportunity to have a chat.

THE CHILD-LIKE MIND TENDS TO THINK LITERALLY--and ask child-like questions, which is OK!

I began by explaining: "As you grow older, you will get to know more." I told him, as I told his older sister, the same thing I told them about Santa Claus: "God is not a person up or out there." I said, "Begin by thinking of god as inside me, you, others and everything.

Quizzically, he looked at me and asked: If I cut you open, would I see god? As we continued to talk, I chuckled.

Over the years, I said the same thing to all who asked me, including my five congregations, my children, my grandchildren, the people who heard my broadcasts or read my columns. Long before Richard Dawkins wrote his book, The GOD Delusion, I had got rid of the delusion and I encouraged others to do likewise. I also encourage the asking of child-like questions, which, as art are often quite interesting and complex.

I am also reminded of the story of the bright and curious child who asked the minister: If God made everything, who made God?

This is the kind of child-like question that is not really a proper question at all. It implies there is a specific answer, which is a false implication. Child-like questions simply prompt an infinite series of questions with an infinite series answers.

It is like asking: Which came first? The bird? Or the reptile? Or the egg? To some questions there are no concrete answers, yet.

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... but that didn't help.
Meaning what?
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Without answers, your entire religion reduces to "I recommend that people be good to each other".
Do you have a problem with helping people be kind and good to one another--the main goal of healthy religion?
My religion?
Unitheism, like theism, is not a religion, it is a philosophy/theology. And, BTW, it highly recommends the Golden Rule--Simply be kind and good to one another. Do you have a problem with that?
Wouldn't it be a kind of heaven on earth if everyone did just that?
Are there any atheists who say that the Golden Rule is nonsense and was created by the founders of an evil religion?

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/18/11 04:38 PM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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