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#38403 - 05/13/11 11:33 PM light speed is fake
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.
the diameter of the sun is 864,327.328 miles

this video shows a compressed plasma shock wave traveling across the sun in less than a second.

I always thought that mans claims on the speed of light were null and this proves that to me.

"when they claim that the speed of light cannot be reached"

from the video it looks like it wasnt just reached but surpassed multiple times.



http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/item.php?id=stereoimages&iid=146

BTW , Plasma is something.
"plasma is a state of matter"
so plasma is matter !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)

maybe they will make an amendment to the speed of light to reflect these new findings.

or maybe they will make an amendment to plasma to conserve the speed of light , who knows these days what they will do to save face.

or can you figure it out yourself!




_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38404 - 05/13/11 11:52 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Impressive stuff!
Does the video show the propagation of the wave in real time, or is it speeded up?
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#38406 - 05/14/11 12:01 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
the link or the page that the video is on did not say if the videos were in real time or not.
according to the below page the sun rotates once every
36 days or so.

http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/weekly/4Page1.pdf
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38408 - 05/14/11 12:15 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
heres a bit more about the Galactic Federation of Light scoutships around the Sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5z2aKZf3Q
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38415 - 05/14/11 04:42 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
The video also shows the sun (or the observer) rotating by about 1 degree every second. Do we really have a satellite orbiting the sun every 5 minutes?!

Scale the wave speed by 5minutes/36days and you get something much much slower than the speed of light. It will instead be travelling at the speed of sound.

The video also shows that the sun is green. Clearly the color of the sun is fake too! That'll be why your parents told you not to look at the sun, they didn't want you to discover the truth!



Edited by kallog (05/14/11 04:44 AM)

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#38424 - 05/15/11 01:11 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
That'll be why your parents told you not to look at the sun, they didn't want you to discover the truth


But perhaps they knew that if they told me not to look
I would look when they were not looking.

maybe Nasa is not telling that the video is spanning several days in a single second so that the video will
cause the viewers to think , to wonder , to find out for themselves , much like the
"when the earth stops spinning" video
by NATGEO. wink



_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38426 - 05/15/11 02:57 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
maybe Nasa is not telling that the video is spanning several days in a single second so that the video will
cause the viewers to think , to wonder , to find out for themselves , much like the
"when the earth stops spinning" video


No. It's such a routine practice. Just as the false colors, false size, false rotation, etc. are. They probably got complacent knowing that to them it's obvious so neglected to point that out.

Of course they're not going to put a several-days long video on the website, especially not if it runs at 1 frame/hour.

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#38427 - 05/15/11 03:05 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
heres a bit more about the Galactic Federation of Light scoutships around the Sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5z2aKZf3Q


Excellently made video! I think some of those blobs might be bits of sun that get blasted off every now and then.

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#38430 - 05/15/11 12:47 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: kallog]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
I think some of those blobs might be bits of sun that get blasted off every now and then.


I can agree with the earth sized blobs possibly being
ejected from the sun , that part does make sence.

but the blobs move around and they dont follow a
path that would cause you to think that they were ejected from the sun.

some even move in the opposite direction of the sun.

some are traveling north to south , south to north , east to west ,etc,etc.

it would seem that they would all be moving in the same direction that the sun moves.

because the sun is where the blobs velocity came from
when it was ejected.

they must be extremely heavy to just remain orbiting the sun at such a close proximity otherwise they would need a tremendous velocity to remain in orbit.

and perhaps these could be remnants of planets that did not have enough velocity to attain orbit but gained that velocity as they spiraled inwards towards the sun.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38433 - 05/15/11 02:29 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: paul
they must be extremely heavy to just remain orbiting the sun at such a close proximity otherwise they would need a tremendous velocity to remain in orbit.

That doesn't follow at all. The speed required to orbit around a body depends primarily on the distance from the center of the body. The mass of the orbiting body has almost nothing to do with the radius of the orbit. This of course is the case when the orbiting body is much less massive than the body being orbited. The actual orbit is determined by the combined mass of the 2 bodies and the speed of the orbiting body. Obviously the sun is much more massive than anything else that might be orbiting it, so the mass of the orbiting body can be ignored in the calculation.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#38437 - 05/15/11 03:38 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
That doesn't follow at all.


Thanks Bill. I was struggling to make sense of that. I can stop struggling now. smile
_________________________
There never was nothing.

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#38444 - 05/16/11 06:07 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
The speed required to orbit around a body depends primarily on the distance from the center of the body.


then we can just slow or speed up the earths orbital velocity and its orbit would not increase or decrease?

Bill, have you never heard of "orbital velocity"?
Quote:
Orbital velocity is the velocity needed to achieve balance between gravity's pull on the satellite and the inertia of the satellite's motion


http://science.howstuffworks.com/satellite3.htm


Quote:
Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to a change in its state of motion or rest, or the tendency of an object to resist any change in its motion. It is proportional to an object's mass.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

So what we end up with is that what you wrote

Quote:
That doesn't follow at all.


is what doesnt follow at all !

but its an easy mistake if you only look at things such as
below.
http://ceres.hsc.edu/homepages/classes/astronomy/spring99/Mathematics/sec10.html

but these mistakes can kill people.

Quote:
The mass of the orbiting body has almost nothing to do with the radius of the orbit.


on the contrary Bill , it is the satelights mass that determines the necessary velocity to attain a certain orbital distance from a body.


Quote:
In mid-March, the ATV increased the ISS’s orbit with a 882-second (14 and a half minutes) burn, giving the ISS an extra push of about 2.1 m/s. In all, Kepler brought nearly 10,000 pounds (4,500 kilograms) of propellant that has been used by its thrusters to boost the space station to a new altitude of 400 kilometers (248 miles) above the Earth. This will be the new “normal” for the station’s orbit. Previously, the ISS orbited about 350 km (220 miles) up.


http://www.universetoday.com/84546/first-ever-in-flight-refueling-for-iss-set-for-mid-may/


increase orbital velocity = increase orbital distance
decrease orbital velocity = decrease orbital distance


that is why I said the below that you commented on

Quote:
they must be extremely heavy to just remain orbiting the sun at such a close proximity otherwise they would need a tremendous velocity to remain in orbit.


sometimes I wonder how anyone ever gets a college degree.


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38445 - 05/16/11 06:09 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
I wouldnt be thanking Bill so soon Bill S

he would have you thinking that you could orbit around the earth in a spacecraft of any mass as long as the spacecraft were a certain distance from the earths center.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38449 - 05/16/11 08:55 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: paul
he would have you thinking that you could orbit around the earth in a spacecraft of any mass as long as the spacecraft were a certain distance from the earths center.

And I would be absolutely right. Have you happened to notice that there are a lot of Earth orbiting satellites? And have you noticed that there are a lot of them in the same orbits? And have you noticed that they are not all the same mass? This shows up best of course in all the satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

Bill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#38462 - 05/17/11 06:45 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
And I would be absolutely right


so you think that as long as the spacecraft's or satellite's mass is of no concern then you could double or tripple its mass and that extra mass would not require any adjustments to the velocity to remain in that orbit?

or you could decrease its mass and the same would be true?

suppose our moon were to suddenly shrink its mass to 1/10 of what its mass is today , would it remain in its current orbit without the need to increase or decrease its orbital velocity?


I say that by increasing its mass without changing its orbital velocity , the moon would increase its orbit.

it would reach escape velocity if the moons mass is increased too much.

I think.

I wonder why this guy uses a small "m" to represent a
orbiting satelite?
and a large "M" to represent the earth?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky2XIElijvs

do you think that if we plug in different sized masses
into the small "m" the answer will always be exactly the same?

or could you possibly be wrong?

try it out and see just plug in the sun's mass
and the earth's mass.

then use the same and plug in double and tripple the earths mass.

then shrink the earths mass to 1/10th its mass today.

theres one thing you can rely on , the velocities will differ in each case because the mass is different in each case.

but you must somehow figure out how to keep the different earths with the different masses in the same orbit without changing their orbital velocity.

let me know what you find.



I plugged the above formula into a excell spreadsheet
and then I changed the values of m1 and the orbital velocity did not remain the same , I wonder why?

perhaps everybody is wrong except you !

I decreased the value of m1 the orbiting mass
and the orbiting velocity increased !

the values I used are as follows

m1 mass 7.3477 * 10^22

m2 mass 5.9736 * 10^24

moons perigee 362,570 km

the result was
12,629,335,298

then I replaced the m1 mass of 7.4377 * 10^22
with
m1 mass of 5.0 * 10^22

and the result changed to
12,653,922,800


this tells me that a heavier satellite needs to have a slower orbital velocity than a lighter satellite when occupying the same orbital distance.

that is why I said

Originally Posted By: paul
they must be extremely heavy to just remain orbiting the sun at such a close proximity otherwise they would need a tremendous velocity to remain in orbit.





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38465 - 05/17/11 09:15 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill S.]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
Quote:
I can stop struggling now.

laugh

you can struggle to climb up out of a ditch or you can
climb out easier and quicker with a tool such as
a ladder.

but someone selling you a faulty ladder might just put you back in the ditch if you buy it.
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38466 - 05/17/11 10:40 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Sorry Paul, the moon is a slightly different animal than most satellites. The mass of the Moon is not insignificant compared to the mass of the Earth. So the calculation turns out to be a bit different. I was trying to say that the mass doesn't matter when the mass of the orbiting body is much smaller than the mass of the main body.

And have you heard of a Trojan orbit? There are 2 groups of asteroids in the solar system that are called the Trojans, because they were named after heroes of the Trojan war. The thing that makes them unique is that they are in the same orbit as Saturn. One group is 60 degrees ahead of Saturn in its orbit and the other 8s 60 degrees behind. Here is the Wikipedia article. The thing is of course that the Trojans are extremely less massive than Saturn, but they occupy the same orbit. So I'm afraid your contention is kind of shot down by the fact that there are many satellites that don't agree with your claim.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#38470 - 05/17/11 11:59 PM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
nice try there Bill.

the trouble is that these trojans are not orbiting anything.
they have simply wandered into a area where they are not pulled by just the suns gravitational forces.

so if jupiter were to slow down then they would slow down also!

if jupiter were to speed up then they would follow.

Quote:

The Lagrange points mark positions where the combined gravitational pull of the two large masses provides precisely the centripetal force required to rotate with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point




your taking this WAY out of context and Im curious

are you a republican?

if you think that your example proves anything at all
then the obvious question is why are these asteroids only found in the 5 lagrange points?

why are they not found all along the orbit of jupiter?

we were discussing orbits not lagrange points.

and yes President Obama has a U.S. birth certificate.











_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38472 - 05/18/11 01:56 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: paul]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Well, let me see, the Trojans aren't orbiting the Sun. Then they must be moving in some other direction than the path of Jupiter around the sun.

And back to your calculation of the orbit of the Moon. I suggest you recalculate the orbit using the correct math. The formula you showed is actually the correct formula to calculate the force between 2 masses. However, that is a static calculation. To calculate the orbit of the Moon you need to use calculus and figure the vectors involved. I read somewhere that Isaac Newton said the only thing that gave him a head ache was calculating the orbit of the Moon. Remember that Newton invented calculus just so he could calculate orbits. So if you want to convince me that the orbits depend on the mass of the object in orbit you will have to come up with the correct math.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

Top
#38473 - 05/18/11 02:20 AM Re: light speed is fake [Re: Bill]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Ok, I just realized that I don't need to go through all that stuff up there. All I have to do is to show how to calculate orbital speed. Here is a web page that shows how to calculate the speed of a satellite in orbit. Notice that the only mass required in the calculation is the mass of the planet, or other body around which the satellite is orbiting. The mass of the satellite is ignored.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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