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paul Offline OP
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Today I watched in horror and disbelief along with a sad
feeling about how stupid our scientist are becomming.

If Al were here he would give National Geographic a whipping
that would last and last.

the movie in question is described in the below link.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/aftermath/4464/Overview

this mocumentary of "science" explains how a slowing earth's rotation would cause the seas along the equator to withdraw!!!

and this due to the waters rushing to the poles and creating new oceans there!!!

also because the oceans waters rush to the poles the earth is surrounded by a land mass at the equator!!!

I would like to know just how stupid these stupid smart people think we are.










3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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The Earth's diameter across the equator is about 40km longer than the diameter between the poles.

Most of the oceans are no more than 4km deep.

Can you explain what is "stupid" about the people?

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Originally Posted By: kallog
The Earth's diameter across the equator is about 40km longer than the diameter between the poles.

Most of the oceans are no more than 4km deep.

Can you explain what is "stupid" about the people?

Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


So when you stand at the Poles you are closer to the center of the Earth.....And if the Earth was to stop spinning
the Oceans would redistribute themselves, tending to make the Earth into a perfect sphere, rather than the Oblate Spheroid it is today.
What is stupid about that? Apart from the strong winds. Hehehe



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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
Can you explain what is "stupid" about the people?


lets start with the reason the earth is oblong.

the earth is oblong because the earth is rotating.

the same reason why there is a bulge in the oceans.

if you slow the earths rotation then you reduce the bulge of the oceans , this causes the sea levels to rise at the beach.
not to retreat.

if you slowly stop the earths rotation the earth will take on a more spherical shape , and there would be no bulge in the oceans and all of todays coast lines will be under water.


thats whats so stupid about the people.












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paul Offline OP
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Quote:
the Oceans would redistribute themselves, tending to make the Earth into a perfect sphere,


the earth is basically a big ball of liquid with a extremely thin coating on it that we call the earths crust.

this big ball of liquid would also tend to take on a more perfect spherical shape.

and all the waters in the oceans would redistribute , and all of todays shorelines would be flooded.

if the earth were to stop rotating the earths core would
move inside the earth closer to the sun.

the earth would always show the same side towards the sun
exactly the same way that the moon always shows the same side toward the earth and the ice caps would melt and a huge ice cap would form on the side opposite the sun.


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Originally Posted By: paul
the earth is basically a big ball of liquid with a extremely thin coating on it that we call the earths crust.

this big ball of liquid would also tend to take on a more perfect spherical shape.

That does seem sensible, but unless you can actually show that it would happen then you're in no position to be calling somebody stupid for claiming otherwise. They may (or may not) have done their homework. And you didn't. Perhaps it wouldn't happen, perhaps the convection currents in the mantle, or even just the stiffness of the crust would somehow maintain the existing crust shape for much longer than the sea would.

This is no place for common sense because none of us have ever experienced changes on that scale.

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Quote:
They may (or may not) have done their homework. And you didn't.


how do you know I didnt?
are you some type of seer or do you just know things?

I based my opinion on common sense that aligns with physics.

but heres a little data to accompany my opinion.

https://edisk.fandm.edu/annalisa.crannell/shapes/sca/Height-vs-Area/sca-hva-planets2.html

Venus takes 224.65 days to complete each orbit.

a single day on venus last 243 earth days.

in other words venus does not rotate as fast as the earth does.

in fact a day on venus is longer than a year on venus !!

Quote:
According to the Venusian calendar, WW II ended only 56 days ago!


http://starryskies.com/solar_system/venus/a_day_and_a_year_on_venus.htm


and its oblateness is "zero"

venus is not oblong as the earth is.

this follows what would happen to a mass of liquid that is
released in zero g.

it forms a perfect sphere , unless it is rotating.

if you then rotate the mass of liquid it becomes oblong.

just like the earth is oblong.

you cant have a cake and eat it too.

but you cant enjoy the cake unless you eat it.

you can look at a cake and enjoy the way it looks
but I prefer to eat cakes not just look at them.
in other words use them for the purpose they were made.

for these people to have published a tv show that does not follow either common sence or known physics is stupid.

unless there reasons were to confuse and numb the minds of
their viewers.

I think that this type of science mocumentary is a danger to
to the viewers and that national geographic should reconsider
the consultants used to review the supposedly documentaries that are shown on the national geographic channel.

otherwise it will become like the national enquirer and no one will believe anything that they see on the channel.



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Well, I guess I might as well put in my uninformed opinion. If the Earth stopped spinning then the first approximation matches Kallog's idea. The sea level would rise at the poles and recede at the equator. But Paul has a point that the whole Earth would reshape itself. So, as a second approximation, it's hard to say what would happen. Of course changes in sea level would hardly be worth worrying about. The reshaping of the Earth from an oblate spheroid to a sphere would probably cause massive earth quakes, which would probably cause more damage than the changes in sea level.

Well, looking at the original post again I find that it is even more complicated than that. Because Paul started off by talking about "a slowing earth's rotation". Well, if it just slowed then you have to figure out how much it had slowed. A slight slowing wouldn't make much difference, coming to a complete stop would cause enormous catastrophes.

And one point that Paul made about the Earth becoming gravitationally locked is of course a matter of just how much it slowed. If it completely stopped rotating it would not be tidally locked, because if it was tidally locked it would still be rotating, just very slowly, 1 time per year. But again it would all be a matter of how much it slowed.

And of course this is all pure speculation, since I can't think of any way for it to happen, except over an extremely long time.

Bill Gill


C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.
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paul Offline OP
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the show that I posted the link to shows the earth slowing over a long period of time.

and yes if the earth just suddenly stopped we would all be dead either from extreme heat or from extreme cold even if we survived all the tsunamis and earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

-------------
note: by stopped I mean that the earth would not rotate in reference to our sun , the earth would always show the same side to the sun.
------------

there might be a chance of survival along the earth
between the light and the dark.

but Im almost certain that you would need adequate underground shelter.

if you lived through the resettling of the earths crust then you could move back above ground and grow plants and animals for food.

using solar panels you could convert water into hydrogen and oxygen.

you would expel carbon dioxide after breathing the oxygen.

you could grow plants inside a confined area where you breath

the plants would convert the carbon dioxide back into oxygen.

and you could slowly build a atmosphere again but you would need to be extremely cautious because any atmosphere would be affected by the slightest bit of pollution and additional life.

but for the most part the earth would never have a useable atmosphere again.

anyway the chances of any long term survival would be slim and would greatly depend on the smart people being
smart smart people
unlike todays
stupid smart people.






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Originally Posted By: paul

I would like to know just how stupid these stupid smart people think we are.


Oh Lord don't get me started on that one.

Too late...

Dark energy, man made global warming, the moon is not made of green cheese, rasing taxes is a good thing, Leonard beat Hagler, Ginger vs. Mary Anne, aliens built the pyramids...ah crap, now see what you've done?


What? I've a drawing I want here. How I do that?
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Originally Posted By: paul
in fact a day on venus is longer than a year on venus !!

and its oblateness is "zero"


Sure. But that misses the important point of how long it would take to achieve that shape. Unless you're still hiding that most important piece of information for some reason.

Do you really think the oceans would reshape at the same speed as the ground? They might do, but you don't know so you shouldn't be calling people stupid just because you ignored that part.

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Originally Posted By: paul
this mocumentary of "science" explains how a slowing earth's rotation would cause the seas along the equator to withdraw!!!

and this due to the waters rushing to the poles and creating new oceans there!!!

also because the oceans waters rush to the poles the earth is surrounded by a land mass at the equator!!!

I would like to know just how stupid these stupid smart people think we are.

What's your problem?

That is pretty much what would happen.


Your comment about the Earth reshaping itself as a sphere is correct, but your time frame is way off.

The isostatic rebound of Scandinavia (after the ice cap melted) has been something like 300 meters in 14,000 years.

So the oceans will swamp the poles within a few days while the reshaping of the Earth will take a million years (or so).

This idea is nothing new. People have been speculating on this topic since the 1800's (and probably before).

And I see that Kellog has just broached this topic (of how quickly the Earth would reshape).


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Quote:
The isostatic rebound of Scandinavia (after the ice cap melted) has been something like 300 meters in 14,000 years.


awesome find there pre.

and scandinavia is such a huge part of the earth that it would probably hold at least as much ice as greenland holds
today.

the trouble with your example is that we are talking about the entire earth , not a isolated part that is affected by its surroundings.

if the earth slowly stops rotating the earths crust would slowly resettle as the rotation decreases, why you might ask.

gravity

and believe it or not pre the poles are also affected by gravity and by pressures , and there would be a enormous amount of pressures pressing upwards on the poles as the rest of the earths crust settles closer to the center.

the earths crust at the equator does not press down as much today as it would if the crust were not affected by the earths rotation.

so as the rest of the earth is getting closer to the center the poles are getting further away from the center.

most likely you would find that there would be very little or no water left at the poles if the earth were to slowly stop rotating.

did either of you watch the video?

I might add that any significant slowing of the earths rotation would be immediately followed by an adjustment of the earths crust.

it wouldnt require thousands of years.

why you might ask?

physics.





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Originally Posted By: paul
it wouldnt require thousands of years.

why you might ask?

physics.


That's a complete non-answer. It's easy to imagine that. I thought of that after seeing the video too. But I can admit that I don't know.

How long would it take?
1 minute?
1 hour?
1 day?
1 month?
1 year?
10 years?
1000 years?
1 million years?
1 billion years?

Pick a number. And you need to have a reason for rejecting the next larger one.

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Quote:
The isostatic rebound of Scandinavia (after the ice cap melted) has been something like 300 meters in 14,000 years.


did the 300 meter rebounding occur 1 second after the ice melted / or while the ice was melting / or 14,000 years later.

was it just yesterday that scandinavia rebounded 300 meters?

you took my reply out of context.

I said that the earth would imediately resettle following a significant decrease in rotation.

a significant decrease in rotation also means much more heat generated at the core.

because the core rotates independently from the rest of the earth.

but I would say maybe a day.
but I would give it maybe an hour.




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Originally Posted By: paul
I might add that any significant slowing of the earths rotation would be immediately followed by an adjustment of the earths crust....
but I would say maybe a day.
but I would give it maybe an hour.

Hi Paul. That is simply not the case.

Speedy reshaping of the equatorial bulge would require the breaking of most of the chemical bonds that are holding the solid together (remember the mantle is a solid and, due to its compressed state, is stronger and stiffer than steel).

This quick breaking of such chemical bonds is usually called melting.

In this situation, gravity does not provide enough energy to melt all this rock, or even partially melt it.

There is enough energy to break some of these bonds and this leads to the very, very, slow flow of the mantle (and, of course, this has led many people to a belief in the very silly theory of plate tectonics).

So, in this way, over a very long period of time, gravity gets the job done.


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Originally Posted By: preearth
Quote:
but I would say maybe a day.
but I would give it maybe an hour.


solid together (remember the mantle is a solid and, due to


What a good point. Though it's a plastic solid (or viscous liquid when under enough stress), so it would flow. But surely taking more than a day!! I don't think it's necessary for it to melt (if it isn't already), because there are already flows within the mantle anyway - "mantle currents".

Really this isn't something we should be talking about in such handwaving ways. The mantle's mechanical properties are outside our common experience. The scales are unimaginably large, and our perceptions of time won't be accurate.

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Originally Posted By: paul

a significant decrease in rotation also means much more heat generated at the core.

because the core rotates independently from the rest of the earth.


Sure, if you slow the mantle and let the core follow. But of course the whole slowing thing is imaginary anyway, so we could just slow all parts simultaneously, in whatever way keeps it from generating more heat.

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I wonder just how heavy the oceans water that is a part of the equatorial bulge is?

because the water would certainly redistribute immediately.

and possibly because the crust under the oceans are thiner than the continental crust this removal of weight above the mantel would cause depressurization in the mantle.

the problem with this depressurization is that it would extend all the way to the core.

and although the mantles temperatures at the crust/mantle is only 900C
the temperature at the mantle/core is 4000C

of course the mantle cannot melt because of the lithostatic pressures above it pressing down from above.

however a sudden decrease in the lithostatic pressures would cause an immediate melting and release of gasses locked up in the melting rock.

liquifying a large area in the upper mantle that surrounds the earth.

Im not exactly positive how this all would play out
but you can bet it wouldnt be pretty.

but dont worry about it , just go get a job as one of todays smart people.

the show that I posted a link to starts off
at 4 years past the rotation reduction and a single day last 624 hours.

and the earth is rotating at just over 60 km an hour.

the sun now stays in the sky for 13 days!!!

followed by 13 days of darkness!!

the earths temperatures plummet to -55 C over the 13 day long nights.

it didnt bother to tell the high temperatures durring the 13 day long days!!

but after that the show begins to show living animals and green leafy trees !!!

what a crock...












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I cant think of any possible scenario that would slow
all parts simultaneously , can you.

but the passing of a large planet sized object could slow the earths rotation or speed it up.

but this is all just conjecture anyway , so the only thing that matters is that we are being fed junk by a channel thats not supposed to.


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