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#36407 - 10/04/10 12:46 PM Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology
Eddy Pengelly Offline
Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Southern Australia
Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology

Latest INVESTIGATION Released - 1st October 2010

Papyrus of Ani, plate I, column 1. 17 glyphs


2006 Translation
The sitting male's LA Disk.

The Disk:
Its flat underside shines.

The Disk:
Its protruding ledge - is a disk shaped saddle - in the side of a box.

Originally Posted By: kallog
The translation is just a statement, without any critical reasoning to support it.


Here is the latest Hieroglyph Investigation - with reasoning to support it - as requested.

Australian researcher Ronald Pegg stated that

* The accepted interpretation and subsequent translation of some Egyptian glyphs, specifically the 'sun-disc' glyph RA-disc is incorrect.

* On the 1240 BCE Papyrus of Ani (Plate I) it is a depiction of a compact disk and

* associated glyphs describe its character and depict the protruding saddle of its drive tray.


While acknowledging that this contradicts over 4,000 years of accepted knowledge, it was deemed of utmost importance to put Pegg's claims to the test.

2010 INVESTIGATION (extractions from full report)

When scholars copied the glyphs in order to translate them, they used their own perceptions to draw what they thought Ani was depicting.

But a comparison with the original glyphs shows that some have not been reproduced correctly.

The first shaded red circle is different.
The ledge was originally squarish.
The circle in the cradle is different.
A 'house plan' has replaced the rectangle box.
A 'loaf' has replaced the horizontal line, and
nowhere in history has the sun ever been recorded as having a hole in the middle.

INTRIM FINDINGS

Pegg's claims warrant further investigation, as the given and accepted translation is based upon substituted glyphs.
This means that the intended original meaning and context is not yet known.

METHOD

When Sign Lists (such as those of Sir Alan Gardiner) are referenced for similar glyphs and their etymology employed, the original context is revealed and a compelling translation can be made.

RESULTS, SUMMARY & CONCLUSION can be found in FULL REPORT
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#36428 - 10/05/10 03:03 PM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Eddy Pengelly]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Could it be that we tend to see what we are looking for? I suspect that the same evidence could be used to support an argument for alien visitations, or prophetic ability.
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#36431 - 10/06/10 04:30 AM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Bill S.]
Eddy Pengelly Offline
Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Southern Australia
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
Could it be that we tend to see what we are looking for?

True. that is sometimes the case.

But when the same reference books as used by most ‘experts’ are employed, and the glyphs checked, and substituted glyphs have obviously been used and thus given an incorrect translation and context, then I prefer to go by what the originally depicted glyphs represented and said, and not just accept what some ‘expert’ chose it to mean after he/she had guessed as to what the scribe Ani was trying to describe.

I may have answered this better elsewhere - when this question was asked…
Quote:
Oh yes, I willingly believe that multiple different Egyptologists and linguists mistranslated the section and only Pegg has been able to translate it correctly.

That’s what I thought at first too, until I checked out the meanings of the glyphs for myself - using reference books by other Egyptian experts such as Gardiner A, Egyptian Grammar, Third Edition reprinted 1978, Griffith Institute, Oxford; and Collier M. & Manley B. 1998, How to read Egyptian Hieroglyphs, British Museum Press, London.

Important points from the full article…

Comparing the line drawings (used by ‘experts’ to make the translation) with the original glyphs (drawn by Ani), it is immediately obvious that some have not been reproduced correctly.

For example
The first red circle: The drawn shaded circle symbol is different.
The original is not dark and has a hole in the middle (similar to the other three).
The ledge was originally squarish. The circle in the cradle is totally different.
A 'house plan' has replaced the rectangle box. A 'loaf' has replaced the horizontal line.

Ronald Pegg's claim is therefore warranted, as the given and accepted translation is based upon substituted glyphs.
This means that the intended original meaning and context is not yet known.

The original glyphs as drawn by Ani have therefore not yet been interpreted nor translated correctly.

The article goes on to the last six glyphs…
Of these 6 glyphs, 4 have been misrepresented in their reproduction and therefore also in their subsequent translation. This means the contemporary translation is incorrect.

Well yes. That’s right. If the wrong glyphs have been used to translate, then the given interpretation by ‘experts’ is NOT what Ani depicted, as the ‘experts’ substituted glyphs BEFORE they did their translation. A picture is given and when compared to what Ani depicted, it is obvious that different glyphs have been used in the translation by the ‘experts’.

Continuing, the article presents a visual comparison of the last 4 (of 6) glyphs to those as shown in the Sign Listings in Sir Alan Gardiner’s Egyptian reference book…
One glyph is not a known glyph. Scholars have not referenced it.
Another glyph has been substituted in the place of the second glyph. This glyph depicted by Ani is also not known. Scholars have not referenced it.
The third glyph has been substituted for another, yet the original glyph drawn by Ani IS referenced by Gardiner.
Hence, at least three glyphs have not yet been interpreted nor translated correctly.
So, turning to glyphs that look similar in Gardiner’s book, their meanings* (ie. etymologies) are extracted and put down in order.
This, glyph by glyph identification, gives a running sentence - being what the glyphs are representing.
The 6 glyphs depicted by Ani say “A Disk. Its protruding ledge, a disk shaped saddle, in the side of the supportive base”.

So, no, I do not just simply agree with Pegg’s translation.
I grabbed my own copies of the books as cited in the full article and very carefully checked each glyph for myself.
Unfortunately I did not state this in my earlier 2006 report regarding Pegg’s claims.

* This is just like using the Hebrew Lexicon from Strong’s Concordance to verify the original Hebrew meanings from the Old Testament.




Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I suspect that the same evidence could be used to support an argument for alien visitations, or prophetic ability.

You are correct.
A similar (but different) RA-sun-disk glyph has been used for that purpose.
LINK: Wayne Herschel – The Hidden Records

As too (incorrectly and out of context) by Mr Herschel, some descriptions from the Book of Ezekiel (Old Testament).
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#36433 - 10/06/10 10:24 AM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Eddy Pengelly]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Eddy Pengelly

Here is the latest Hieroglyph Investigation - with reasoning to support it - as requested.

...

When Sign Lists (such as those of Sir Alan Gardiner) are referenced for similar glyphs and their etymology employed, the original context is revealed and a compelling translation can be made.


I only found one potential bit of reasoning, that one quoted above. What sign lists? How did these lead to the conclusion that the circle is a compact disk and _not_ a DVD, record, laser-disk, wheel, etc.?


Quote:

nowhere in history has the sun ever been recorded as having a hole in the middle.


What you've shown doesn't have a hole in the middle. A dot isn't a hole. it could be the axle of a wheel, or not even a picture of anything, or simply a place to put the needle of a compass used to draw the circle.

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#36437 - 10/06/10 05:23 PM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: kallog]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
I was certainly not questioning the translation of the glyphs, that would be totally outside my sphere of expertise. However, it does seem that there is more than one stage in the extraction of information in this sort of situation. The two main stages appear to be translation and interpretation. The accuracy of the first must depend greatly on the expertise and care of the translator, while the second is very open to seeing what you want to see. For this reason I feel it is very important to include as much justification as possible for any interpretation.
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#36438 - 10/06/10 08:17 PM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Bill S.]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
OMG, what a truck load of tripe (not you Bill, the thread)

Can we seriously be discussing this? I used to believe that anyone taking such utterly stupid ideas seriously had to be a Class 'A' fruit cake but, of course, I do realize we live in an era of political correctness, and that Eddy Pengelly must therefore be the exception. It's always fascinating to see reasonable and erudite people vainly attempting to enlighten the purveyors of unadulterated idiocy.
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#36444 - 10/07/10 06:22 AM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: redewenur]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: redewenur
OMG, what a truck load of tripe


Haha thanks for bringing me back to reality. It's easy to get lost trying to be logical and forget that it's TIME TRAVELERS FROM THE '90's TAKING COMPUTERS TO THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS!!!

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#36445 - 10/07/10 02:02 PM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: kallog]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: K
thanks for bringing me back to reality


What is reality? Quantum theory suggests we make our own reality. Crystal spheres, phlogiston, ether and time travellers; could they all be out there somewhere, if someone has the imagination to make them "reality"?
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#36448 - 10/07/10 05:39 PM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Bill S.]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Yep, there's never been a shortage of people with wonderful imaginations, A.A Milne among them - but have you seen Winnie-the-Pooh around lately? A silly question, of course, but I'm sure you'll take the point. Unless you really expect to see him. And if you don't, why not? Because you know that all the imagination in the world will fail to make Pooh a real flesh and blood entity, except in a disordered mind that is sadly out of touch with reality.
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#36449 - 10/08/10 03:36 AM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: redewenur]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: redewenur
make Pooh a real flesh and blood entity


Um I'd prefer my poos without flesh and blood thanks!!

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#36450 - 10/08/10 04:59 AM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Bill S.]
Eddy Pengelly Offline
Member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Southern Australia
Originally Posted By: Bill S.
I was certainly not questioning the translation of the glyphs, that would be totally outside my sphere of expertise.
Just because something is not your chosen sphere of expertise, one should always ask questions - and actively seek the correct answers.
I appreciate the opportunity to explain these astonishing findings.

Originally Posted By: Bill S.
However, it does seem that there is more than one stage in the extraction of information in this sort of situation. The two main stages appear to be translation and interpretation. The accuracy of the first must depend greatly on the expertise and care of the translator, while the second is very open to seeing what you want to see.
Regarding “The accuracy of the first must depend greatly on the expertise and care of the translator”
That is one of the main the points presented in the cited article.
It is clearly shown and easily observed by anyone (ie. non-experts) that the (‘expert’) translator (or his associated artist) has substituted glyphs - for what he thought Ani was trying to depict.

The original glyphs have NOT been reproduced accurately.
Hence translating the wrong glyphs will not give a translation of what Ani was originally saying.
Thus the original message portrayed by Ani was still not known at that time.

The second point you state of ‘seeing what you want to see’ is exactly of what the translator (or his artist) is guilty.
This is what Pegg and myself are pointing out.

Interpertation
Also, if the sun-disc glyph was originally depicting a ‘DVD, record, laser-disk, wheel, etc” THEN the context of either a ‘DVD, record, laser-disk, wheel, etc’ would have to be observed in subsequent and associated glyphs on the papyrus.
This is not the case. When these other options are put into a context, they do not produce complete results.
eg. Yes, a DVD does sit in a similar shaped ‘cradle in the side of a box’ and it is operated via ‘a mouse & cable’ as depicted in associated glyphs, but the following and associated descriptions given by the glyphs do not describe any DVD’s contents.

But when the context of a ‘compact disk’ interpretation is employed,
the associated 91 glyphs from Plate I, columns 1 & 2 of the Papyrus of Ani do in fact describe the use of three modern cd-roms in a computer, using a mouse and cable: They briefly describe the contents and some imagery from the Ancients cd-rom, the 1991 Persian Gulf War - Desert Storm from the Grolier cd-rom, and the 'Sun and Stars' from the RedShift2 cd-rom.
This was made known in the 2006 Egyptian Report

So using the context of the sun-disc as a compact disk (ie. a cd-rom) the surrounding 91 glyphs produce a fully self contained explanation.

BUT is just one papyrus showing evidence of modern computer technology all that is needed to prove Pegg’s case?
No.
Pegg, in his own works, shows additional proof.
In the Pyramid texts, Utterances 267, 273, 478, 600, he reveals where they are describing images from the three cd-roms.
Source: Pegg, R 2003, Ancient Chronicles Unsealed, PPHC, Adelaide.

In my 2006 investigations, I reveal where the stories regarding the mythical Gods of Heliopolis and the Funeral Bed vignette from the Book of the Dead are describing a series of pictures from the Ancients cd-rom.
Source: Pengelly, E 2006, A New Understanding - Egyptian Gods, PPHC, Adelaide.

Originally Posted By: Bill S.
For this reason I feel it is very important to include as much justification as possible for any interpretation.
That is why the latest article was written with comprehensive citations and actual depictions of glyphs from Sign Lists from noted reference books.
Also, there are printed books available in Australia that present and highlight my discoveries and findings, as well as certain web pages on the PPHC Study Group website.

Originally Posted By: kallog
What you've shown doesn't have a hole in the middle. A dot isn't a hole. it could be the axle of a wheel, or not even a picture of anything, or simply a place to put the needle of a compass used to draw the circle.
The physical size of the Papyrus is quite small.
The papyrus of Ani was found at Thebes, and was purchased by the Trustees of the British Museum in 1888. It measures 78 feet long by only 1 foot 3 inches high.
To put this into perspective, here are columns from Plate I (with 1 & 2 highlighted) against a 15 inch ruler.

So within the 15 inches, 2.5 inches are lost due to the coloured borders.
The red ‘sun-disc’ glyph is therefore about a quarter of an inch high - not much room to draw the hole so it is clearly visible.

Some glyphs do show the hole in the middle, some do not.
This one shows both…



This one shows a circle with a hole in it

These glyphs (and another) describe that the Grolier disk is partly green in colour.
Source: PPHC Study Group website, Member Area, pages Glyph_1 & Glyph_2

When these were investigated and revealed descriptions from two modern cd-roms, it was deduced that in many cases, the sun-glyphs without a hole clearly seen were also representing a compact disk.
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#36458 - 10/09/10 01:14 PM Re: Egyptian Hieroglyphs depict Computer Technology [Re: Eddy Pengelly]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
One problem I have with the idea that time travellers might have taken anything back to ancient Egypt is that scientific opinion seems to suggest that past-directed TT could not go back beyond the point of the first "time machine". If that is the case, and if past-directed TT has been around for thousands of years, why are there not more examples of it? Every other technical advance has escalated (computers, mobile phones etc), so why not time machines?
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