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I'm looking for physics lab which can do special research my physics hypotheses from this site.
http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-classical-mechanics-2#
I'm not physics scientist and hypotheses form this site wasn't written as scientific research document.
I have a doubt about classical mechanic motion principle. The modern physics say the nature has two main translational and rotational motions with their own law of momentum conservation. My hypotheses introduces the nature has just one main rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation and rotational motion and translational motion are part of this main motion.
The modern physic says net off all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will be a zero after repulsive action.
My hypotheses says net off all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will be a zero after repulsive action if all objects of isolated system will conduct translational motion only. If one of the object after repulsive action will conduct a translational and rotational motion then the net of all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will not equal to zero. I made some experiment which it shown on my site. However, it is not enough to show good result without physics lab environment. I want to check it and spend some money for it and prove or disapprove this modern physics motion concept. I'm looking to physics lab which can do custom research and produce this experiment. Would it possible to do this in your lab? I would appreciate if you look into my site.

Thank you

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Can't you just do the pencil experiment they describe?

However I don't think this is something to bother with experiments for. I'm sure it can be resolved by purely theoretical work. You can always test the results of the theory by referring to existing experiments or just making sure that the new theory produces exactly the same predictions as the classical one.

I'm not entirely sure what the new idea is tho. Classical mechanics can easily describe that combined linear and rotational motion. The linear and rotational momentum conservation laws can still be applied and still work without contradictions. The net angular momentum of the two rods is zero even tho one is spinning. Similarly the net linear momentum is also zero.


Last edited by kallog; 09/04/10 04:51 AM.
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I perfectly understand modern classical mechanics. Actually, how I got degree without that smile. However, I would like to test modern physics motion principle by this experiment. I would like to see how law of momentum conservation works for objects which conduct different type of motion. Translational and rotational and translational motions.

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Originally Posted By: kallog
Can't you just do the pencil experiment they describe?


The experiment is very simple.
Ideally, two objects aligned differently from repulsive point. One of them will conduct translational motion. Another object will conduct rotational and translational motion. The result of experiment is measure horizontal velocities of these objects from repulsive point and calculate their translational momentums.
Base on modern classical mechanics these momentums must have same value with opposite directions.

I have a doubt about this, because base on my motion concept these momentums will have same value if objects will have translational motion only. If one of the objects will have rotational and translational motion then part of the energy will be spend for rotation of this object and horizontal velocities of these objects won't have same value. My concept about main rotational and translational motion may be wrong. However, I would like to see an experiment which will prove modern physics motion concept about two main independent motions.

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I think you could design it yourself. If need be have it built by a mechanical workshop.

A potential problem I see with the pencil experiment is the air resistance being different for the spinning and non-spinning pencils. You could overcome that by using denser material, like metal rods. Also by measuring the decrease in speed with time to make sure it's not decelerating more.

Can you explain a bit more about this energy thing? I can see the rotating one would have an extra rotational kinetic energy. But that doesn't mean the translational velocities will be different. It could mean the two rods simply have different amounts of energy. Which they do - the rotating one has been subject to the same linear force, but also a moment as well.

What's motivated you to pursue this? Have you ever noticed any inconsistincies in the classical theory, or incorrect predictions?

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Originally Posted By: kallog
Can you explain a bit more about this energy thing?

The modern physics has no problem with that. It's just apply extra energy to rotation part with postulating law of translational momentum conservation. However, it's say nothing about where is another opposite angular momentum. The modern physics give center of mass (COM) of rotation of all applied objects which will collide with something and will stop moving relatively to COM. It's kind of post processing virtual events which should be added to equate missing opposite angular momentum.

Originally Posted By: kallog
What's motivated you to pursue this? Have you ever noticed any inconsistincies in the classical theory, or incorrect predictions?


I have a few motivations.
1. Rotational and translational motion is standalone natural phenomenon because it may be initiated from one event and it should have it's own law of momentum conservation.
2. What will happen if there repulsed objects will never collide with other objects? The energy will divided asymmetrically between two sides.
3. Dark matter. I think it's a miscalculation and this hypotheses could explains it.
4. My doubts I always check on practice smile

Last edited by ABV; 09/05/10 02:49 AM.
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Originally Posted By: ABV

The modern physics has no problem with that. It's just apply extra energy to rotation part with postulating law of translational momentum conservation. However, it's say nothing about where is another opposite angular momentum.


That's what classical physics does too. Except the part about another opposite angular momentum. They both say the whole system (both rods) have a net zero angular momentum.

Quote:

1. Rotational and translational motion is standalone natural phenomenon because it may be initiated from one event and it should have it's own law of momentum conservation.

I'm sure you can formulate it so they're a single concept. Actually when I was in school I always imagined rotational motion to be a special case of translational motion that they just used because it made things simpler.

Suppose you had a massless rod with a point mass on each end. If it's rotating you could consider it as having angular momentum. Alternatively you could just use the translational momentum of the point masses. It'd get a bit complicated because they're changing direction as it rotates, but that's OK, the rod provides a force which causes them to change direction.



Quote:

2. What will happen if there repulsed objects will never collide with other objects? The energy will divided asymmetrically between two sides.

Yes, but so what? Who says they both have to have the same energy?

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Once the human make a ruler, he will use it always. Why? Because it's easy. Same with laws and equations on physics. However, I would like to test this "ruler". I would like to see an experiment and good science result for this. Let's say, I just want to a spend a money. May I?

Last edited by ABV; 09/05/10 03:34 PM.
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Originally Posted By: ABV
Once the human make a ruler, he will use it always. Why? Because it's easy. Same with laws and equations on physics. However, I would like to test this "ruler". I would like to see an experiment and good science result for this. Let's say, I just want to a spend a money. May I?


Sure. If it was me I'd rather design the equipment myself and get a workshop to build it. Then you don't need any specialist science guys.

But while you're at it. Why not test the law of conservation of energy? And of linear momentum with purely linear motion? And Newton's laws. All these things could just as easily be wrong.

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Originally Posted By: kallog
Sure. If it was me I'd rather design the equipment myself and get a workshop to build it. Then you don't need any specialist science guys.


Unfortunately, my home is not a good research lab. The experiment required some high precision environment which I don't have it.

Originally Posted By: kallog
But while you're at it. Why not test the law of conservation of energy? And of linear momentum with purely linear motion? And Newton's laws. All these things could just as easily be wrong.

If you look on my hypotheses then you will see there is no problem with law of momentum conservation for linear motion. I have a doubt about modern physics motion principle where postulated two main independent motion. Independent rotational motion and independent translational motion. I think, the nature has only one main rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation. This I want to test it. I especially designed an experiment where two objects conduct motions differently.

====================

Anyway, I would try to find a lab who can make this experiment for me. May be this hypotheses is not very interesting for them. However, the money what I would pay them will support and help for their other researches.

Last edited by ABV; 09/06/10 01:54 PM.
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Originally Posted By: ABV

If you look on my hypotheses then you will see there is no problem with law of momentum conservation for linear

There's also no problem with the combined linear and rotational momentum. You suspect there's a problem, but it seems like you lack the pleasure of problem solving to think it through, and would rather just let the machine tell you the answer.

Well go for it, but it sounds horribly unsatisfying. Will the experiment conclusively tell you there's no problem? Or will it leave you with the same doubts, and no more understanding?

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Originally Posted By: kallog
There's also no problem with the combined linear and rotational momentum.


I would like to see it on experiment.

Originally Posted By: kallog
Will the experiment conclusively tell you there's no problem? Or will it leave you with the same doubts, and no more understanding?


Book is good, but I'd like to check my doubts by the experiment.

Last edited by ABV; 09/07/10 12:03 PM.
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This could be used for new experiment

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One more thing to defend my hypotheses about single main rotational and translational motion.
The law of momentum conservation works well for both motions as translational and rotational. But how about case when body conducts rotational and translational motion together. Let imagine case where body with rotational with velocity W and translational with velocity V motion collide with wall by it's on center of mass. What will happen? Base on modern motion concept all translational and translational momentums body will transfer to the wall separately from each other. This is correct, because center mass collision point of body will have normal velocity V relativity to the wall. But how about case where collision of body will be away from it's own center of mass? The velocity of collision point will be V + W*R relativity to the wall. In this case the translational momentum of body cannot be count as simple formula mV. because velocity is different.
On my site I described hypotheses about main single rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation.
http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-classical-mechanics-2#
Please read it.

Last edited by ABV; 09/29/10 02:28 AM.
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Hello again ABV.

I think you need a way to control for air resistance, or at least confirm that it's low enough not to affect the results.

I still don't understand why you want to do it when you're only confirming very old and well-tested theory. You expect the same result as theory predicts.

It would be nice to formulate rotational and translational momentum conservation as a single concept. But how will this experiment help you do that? It will confirm the classical result and leave you having to develop the general momentum theory in exactly the same way you'd have had to do it anyway.

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Originally Posted By: kallog
Hello again ABV.

I think you need a way to control for air resistance, or at least confirm that it's low enough not to affect the results.

I still don't understand why you want to do it when you're only confirming very old and well-tested theory. You expect the same result as theory predicts.

It would be nice to formulate rotational and translational momentum conservation as a single concept. But how will this experiment help you do that? It will confirm the classical result and leave you having to develop the general momentum theory in exactly the same way you'd have had to do it anyway.


Well, I don't want to jump up to conclusion without real experiment results. If result will show identical value of translational velocities then it will prove modern physics motion concept. If not then modern physics does not cover all natural phenomenons yet and motion concept should be corrected. At first, I want to get results from real experiment.

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Originally Posted By: ABV
I want to get results from real experiment.


OK cool. What are the issues holding you up at this stage? Is it the equipment needed for that experiment?


Have you considered using heavy trollies rolling/sliding on a hard surface? This would have a few of advantages:

- The low speed may mean air resistance won't matter

- You can track their motion with a conventional video camera, or even chalk marks/etc so not need the LEDs.

- You can release the spring with a mechanical hook, so eliminate all the electronics entirely.


A possibility might be using small ice cubes to support them. The ice should maintain a melted layer of water to lubricate the contact points very well.

Or do you need them to be in freefall for it to be useful??

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I made some analysis for my experiment and made model for rolling bodies. This model shows the rolling bodies will have different translational velocities.
Please take a look.
http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-classical-mechanics-2#
Thank you

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I don't mean entirely rolling, but just objects having small wheels. Or they could have no rolling parts and just slide on a low-friction surface.

That should be equivalent to the falling experiment of your picture in here. But possibly easier/cheaper to set up.

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If take 2 rolling bodies on surface and spring between them.
http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-classical-mechanics-2#
These objects with same mass and radius and different moment of inertia through the spring are repulsing on surface. Base on kinematics equations, these objects will take a different translational velocities relatively to repulsing point. However surface wont take any movements during repulsing action, because these rolling bodies share same spring. What is wrong? The law of momentum conservation wasn't discovered for rotational and translational motion of physics kinematic calculation should get correction?

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