Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Climate Change Forum live video feed of BP oil leak in the gulf

live video feed of BP oil leak in the gulf

presently what you are seeing comming out of the pipe is
methane that is pressurized above the sea floor water pressure.
the depth of the leak is 4950 ft.
the sea floor water pressure is 2143.35 psi.

I cannot understand why they dont pinch this pipe.
it would be so simple to insert a slightly smaller pipe with a valve attached to it into the pipe.

leave the valve open and then using a clamping tool that
slowly compresses the larger pipe around the smaller pipe
to attach the larger pipe to the smaller pipe.

then weld it in place , then close the damned valve.

but no they are too smart to do something so simple.

the MSV Scandi Neptune rov
in the above video the rov is assigned to the scandi neptune and according to information on the web the Scandi Neptune is a cable laying vessel.

subsea7 scroll to the bottom of the page to find the scandi neptune

I cant seem to find pictures of the rov , so concerning its abilities to perform work , I have no real idea.

however I have seen videos of the rov using a power tool to
tighten bolts on a flange , this ability could also turn a screw clamp even if the screw clamp is at a 1000 - 1 ratio
the larger pipe could eventually be secured to the smaller pipe.

I am beginning to think that there is more to it than what we are seeing or hearing , and this has become a national emergency , personally I would invoke martial law in this area and put the military there to bring this to a full stop.

I really dont think they are trying to stop the leak and it almost seems as if they are only trying to discredit President Obama.

as only a few weeks before this occurance President Obama had acknowledged the security risk of using foreign oil by allowing offshore drilling of our east coast.

call me a conspiracy believer if you like , Im just going by what I see.

a 4 in dia pipe inserted into a 21 inch dia pipe


4 inch dia pipe = 12.56 sq inch area

21 inch dia pipe = 346.36 sq inch area

346.36 / 12.5 = 27.70

you could put 27 of the 4 inch pipes in the 21 inch pipe.

but now we know what the size of the pipe is , just need to get its stress data.

now that I think about it for a few more MINUTES

a rubber pipe connector could be used to connect the 21 inch pipe to a pipe that has a valve mounted on it.

supporting braces could be welded between the pipe and valve to prevent blowoff of the valve when they slowly close the valve.

its not like they dont already exist.
[img]http://www.pt-james.com/ex/b/Book3.files/image003.jpg [/img]

[img]http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/casttoplastic/coupling.gif [/img]

this could stop the flow , I dont see a great fluid velocity in the video so the pressure differential is nominal.

they could stop the flow then saddle the pipe further back to pump the oil out later.

You'd think. But you'd also think they could drop a heavy cover over it. Until that didn't work. There probably are lots of issues that aren't obvious to normal people. They did use the military, I saw an army guy on TV saying there's nothing they can do but build defenses and sit back and wait for the oil to come - can't exactly drop a bomb on it!

One possible issue might be that if you close off the pipe, the gas/oil just comes out around the outside of the pipe.

I think the problem with the heavy cover or cofferdam was the
methane pressurizing higher than the water pressure outside the cofferdam.

its been over a month now so the ground should have settled around the pipe pretty good by now , besides I think this pipe is a branch pipe that leads from a well head , not the actual well head itself , but I might be wrong.

I had thought that that might be a reason why they didnt crush the pipe with explosives because the sudden hammer effect might push the pipe upwards and loosen the soil around the pipe possibly causing the pressurized gass to flow outside the pipe.

that is why a slow shutoff using a valve would be the best way perhaps to close the flow off.

then they could prepare a self tapping saddle further down as this section of pipe appears to lie horizontally.

they are not replacing the gasses and crude mixture with mud
so the obvious reaction is the sea floor is sinking as the flow continues , this sinking could make the situation much more devastating than it already is.

ie if a sinkhole developes due to the methane release that is presently supporting the sea floor then a resulting outpouring of crude itself would follow.

destroying all life in the gulf and the eastern sea coast of north and south america.

and wherever else the oil slick travels.

even if all they do is shove solid 1/2 inch rebar into the pipe one stick at a time they could have the flow greatly reduced in a week or two without the dangers of any hammer effect.

and it might be that they are just waiting to see if the sea floor will settle after the methane is all gone.

but if it settles too far then it could break apart.

Why do you answer "Why aren't they doing X?" with "They're trying to fail" ? How about "Because it won't work and I don't know enough about the subject to understand the reason" ?

Do you honestly believe that none of the people working on it actually ever thought of welding something over the pipe? Really?

The other option is to do what the rest of the world is doing and just not care. This isn't a life-or-death problem anymore. It probably isn't threatening any species either. Just about the only cost will be economic.

because from what they have accomplished so far , they dont seem
to be concerned with stopping the flow.

try turning on your garden hose then removing the spray nozle then re-attaching the nozzle with the water still on.

they could weld the pipe at that depth or at any depth

they only need to isolate the area to be welded from the water pressure that surrounds it.

pump out the water and fill the area with a inert gas.
then adjust the pressure of the inert gas with a vacuum.

then weld it , you can mount a flange a half flange or a coupling or even a large bolt that will accept a threaded rod.

2100 psi is not too much pressure to deal with.

dont even try to tell me that they couldnt have already had the flow stopped unless they are not trying.

NEWS FLASH

the video shows something is happening at this moment.
there is a large apparatus being manuvered at the riser.

I just got in and wanted to check on the leak and this was
a nice surprise.

its called top kill they put heavy drilling fluids in the riser to stop the leak.

must be the fluids viscocity that pluggs it , but in a 21 inch diameter pipe , it might just blow through the center of the
thick oil because of the pressure in the gas.

magnets are pretty cheap , if they could find a way to clog the
pipe with magnets then the thick fluid might just work.

lower a rubber hose that has boyants at intervals along the
hose , then feed the hose apx 50 feet into the riser.

put a wire inside the hose , use a non magnetic wire , then thread magnets that have holes in them over the wire from the surface , as the magnets fall from the wire insie the pipe
they should be attracted to the pipe and build up slowly inside
the pipe , and if you use neo magnets even the differencial in pressures wouldnt unclogg the pipe.

you might even be able to find spherical magnets that way you could just drop them one at a time into the hose and you wouldnt need to thread the magnets on a wire.

then pour in iorn shavings mixed with the heavy fluid.

you can have the rov hold and position the hose to place the magnets , and a snake cam could be used to view the placement with a bright light or a ir cam perhaps.

and BP that will be 1 million for the idea.
think of it as saving 1 million a minute.

Remember how long it took to stop the burning oil wells in Kuwait?

Individual magnets may well be carries away by the flow or slide along the inside of the pipe - it's covered in oil remember!!

Create an air bubble around a joint being welded? How do you seal off the joint that you're welding before you've welded it?

Just because they haven't succeeded doesn't mean they're not trying. It may mean they weren't well prepared before it happened.

Lets look at it the scientific way. What evidence, real or imagined, would prove that you're wrong about them not trying? If BP went through all your ideas and explained why they didn't do them? Then you can just come up with a new idea, endlessly. If there's no possible way to prove you're wrong, then it's a sure sign of a bogus conspiracy theory.

kallog

the magnets especially flat neo magnets would work.

the flow would go over the magnets , if you use spherical magnets
they might roll , depending on the pressure differencial where the magnets are placed inside the pipe.

if you try and place them where the flow is greatest then probably no.

but the flow inside the pipe at 50 ft is much lower than
what you see in the video.

especialy at the top of the BOP where the flow is exiting through cracks in the riser pipe.

there about to cut the riser pipe off , they have been clearing the area to do just that.

what harm would it do to drill or cut a hole in the riser just below the bend in the pipe and insert magnets , I say they would be attracted to the pipe and clog up the bend in the pipe.

this could be a quick patch.

you just dont want to dump a whole lot of magnets in at
one time , or youll get a hammer effect.

put the magnets in slowly...
and build them up as you go , putting them in and just allowing them to settle where they will will take more time and more magnets.

then the flow would be reduced to what could flow out the hole that was made to insert the magnets.

then a attachment could be made that can be attached over the hole made in the riser via a vacuum.

ie...
a flange can be made that has a groove cut in its face
the face that will be welded to the riser pipe.
the groove will supply the needed vacuum area.

two o-rings can be inserted into two grooves that
are inside of the vacuum groove and outside the vacuum groove.

the vacuum will pull the flange against the pipe and
lock it in place.

then this attachment can be welded in place.

then the flow can be stopped , or the gas and oil can be removed.

.

You can't make that claim without any analysis. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. There's a million and one ideas that might work, without any analysis. Maybe a few magnets would stick to the walls, then as they piled up, narrowing the fluid's path, the fluid speeds up, causing more force to rip the surface layer of magnets away. This isn't something you can apply common sense to because it's different from anything we've ever experienced. Or maybe those crystals would form between the magnets and push them apart. Or maybe the low temperatures would have a detrimental effect. Who knows! It's just wild stabbing in the dark.

have you even seen the bend in the pipe?
the pipe is almost pinched flat.

there probably isnt a 2 inch wide opening anywhere
in the bend...and remember this pipe is 1 1/2 inch thick
so subtract 3 inches from what you see in the video.

and even though there is pressure in the pipe there is also
pressure in the water , and that pressure differential is not
much at all.

I know for a fact that large magnets can also be purchased.
by using the rov to insert large magnets first , then inserting the smaller magnets on top of the large ones
then by inserting even smaller magnets or injecting iorn fillings into the pipe the fillings would collect on the magnets.


$650.00

$00.07
plenty of magnets

I dont think that you could even pull a shop floor magnet off of the pipe and you could apply much more force than the pressure or the flow of ---- GAS / METHANE --- that we see on the video.

I see eels and small fish swimming through the plume !!!
so the pressure is nothing to concern yourself with.

this would divert the flow to the hole made to insert the magnets.

---------

you should mount a flange first.
I suppose the flange will need to be custom fabricated.
so that its face curves with the pipe.
you could then use a 1 " rubber gasket to ensure a good fit.
then use a heavy strap around the pipe to connect the flange
to the pipe.

then mount a valve to the flange.
use a angled valve to allow access to the bend in the pipe.

then drill into the pipe through the valve
then leave the valve open.

place the magnets into the pipe through the valve.


then after the flow has been choked in the pipe.

slowly close the valve.

why they don't pinch the steel tube with hidraulic clamp?

if pinched several times in row it will restrain flow greatly...

I agree
I heard today that china has offered to stop the leak
but was refused.

they said that they could stop the leak in 1 day.

I think they could.

our scientist and engineers have been poisoned by todays profit and energy geared thinking that denies common sence and demands highly intricate methods of doing anything and everything.

if it can be done for $10.00 they cant address the
problem , but if they are allowed to build a massive device
that cost $50 million to build , then they are all for it.

If you were a conspiracy theorist you might suspect they knew they couldn't do it, so they made the public offer, knowing America would refuse. That leaves lots of uninformed members of the American public imagining their government is deliberately making it worse.

But oh no, the Chinese government is always honest and never has any ulterior motives.




Common sense is handy for common situations. You have to be able to step beyond that and actually analyse things with an open mind to have any success in an uncommon field, which is what this is.

But don't worry, Obama says he's listening to every idea, go tell him how to fix it.

I know , its not like something you can calculate.
common sence just helps when the calculations dont somehow add up.
or when the things you have read dont seem to be exactly as they appear.

I really do think they can fix it in 1 day.
and I think its just a political thingy that is stopping them.

when you think about it (common sence) its just a pipe with a small amount of pressure.

thats all it is.

I thought that at first too. But then it turns out there's this massive 3-story structure on top of the pipe, with other pipes coming off it, and it's them that're leaking, and are they even made of metal?

So lot of other issues appear. Like if you close off the extra pipes, you might break something from the pressure. If you remove the structure there's probably just a short pipe sticking out of the ground with potentially not enough space to do any work on. Then there's the fact that it has to be done by ROVs which are more clumsy than people, and the water pressure and gas which might impact on welding, and the formation of those crystals which no layman's common sense would have anticipated. Furthermore, the stuff coming out of the pipe might change with time. Doesn't it have more gas and less oil now than it did at first?

But perhaps more importantly, it isn't the end of the world, so it's not worth putting unlimited amounts of money into. As far as I know it just has local economic consequences for fishermen and tour operators, and other businesses supporting them.

I'm sure after it's all over, a big fat report will come out explaining all the problems, and answering lots of the "why don't they just...?" questions. Just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't a reason.

the BOP sits on top of a 6 inch dia well cassing pipe , I think..

the 21 inch pipe that sits on top of the BOP served as a host for other pipes that are used to put the drilling mud into the well in order to avoid the resulting surrounding sea bed sinking such as off the california coast.

the mud basicaly maintains the gas pressure atop the oil.
the gas pressure can be controled this way.
thus the flow of oil can be had at no financial cost other than the financial cost of the mud.

what you are seeing comming out of the pipe is mostly methane.

the well casing only goes down to the top of the well.
thats where all the gas is.

they put a draw pipe inside the well cassing to draw off the
crude oil that is underneath the methane gas.

as the gas pressure lowered inside the well there was not enought pressure to push oil up the broken draw pipe.

so at first there would have been plenty of oil comming out.
because the well had been pressurized by putting mud in
the well, but now it has slowed to a trickel of crude oil.

that is scarry to me as now the ground itself can sink as the
gas escapes because the gas pessure that supports the ground is decreasing , of course this can keep the sea levels from rising
due to the result of burning the final product of the crude.

fair but balanced.

this leak could have been stopped already in my opinion
and I hate to say this because it makes me sound so conspiracy prone , but I think this is a political move to discredit
President Obama in order to place another republican administration in office that will once again remove more and
more safety restrictions in favor of more oil production.

but that is just my opinion of it all.

looking at it with a amount of common sence.

BP itself has lost 75 billion market value since the oil spill.

the BP stock price has dropped from
$60.48 on 4/20/2010
to
$37.66 on 6/03/2010

Sounds like the problem's fixing/fixed itself then. Cool. Maybe if this next trick fails they can just leave it. Gas doesn't hurt anyone out there in the sea. Slowly sinking sea floor doesn't hurt anyone either, does it?



Um, common sense or tunnel vision? Do you realise that this spill will almost certainly cause much tougher safety restrictions than even Obama had before? And do you also realise that those restrictions will be difficult for a near-future government to remove because people will be remembering this accident for another 10 years?