Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion General Science Discussion Forum Math/Fact-Check Requested, Drop of Humanity

I generally post to Not-Quite-Science, since my main interests tie into areas of philosophy and faith. But I recently ventured from metaphysics into a little math and science with an article titled, A Drop of Humanity

In it I worked with facts taken from the internet (tried to get two sources for each), as well as some math computations (a tad rusty in that area). While I tried to check and recheck them, sometimes it takes another, outside person to find error. So if anyone is interested I would appreciate an objective check of facts and/or figures, then if necessary I'll revise it accordingly.

Would also like any comments pro, con, or indifferent relating to the theme and conclusions of the article itself.

Searching the net I've found rough agreement with your quoted figures

(a) 1.4e+21 litres of water on Earth
(b) 334 x 10²³ water molecules per litre
(c) 20,000 drops per litre
(d) daily water ingestion of about three liters per day per person

And your derived figures add up.

Very interesting.

Regarding your theme and conclusion...

Yes, we share the same recycled materials, but when it comes to metaphysical elation, that doesn't move me at all. It's just recycled material, albeit statistically fascinating. On the other hand is the knowledge that all things, tangible and intangible, came from that mysterious no-thing billions of years ago. That moves me. Each to his/her own, I guess.

[quote=Mike Kremer]

An interesting and unique article Warren, not only about the re-use of humanitys water, but also that of animals, not to mention plant life.
My thoughts are:- That this recleaned and recycled human waste water, animal waste, and even plant transpiration, must produce an effect upon us modern humans. But did it effect humans in the past? Could imbibing a few water molecules from Jesus or other distant person effect us?

I am thinking along the lines of Homeopathic medicines, where the poison or chemical involved is diluted millions of times, and yet is reputed to still have a beneficial and curative effect upon the patient.
Notwithstanding that the "Homeopathic medicine" within the dilution cannot be detected.

I don't wish to make a case for or against the "science of Homeopathy"......suffice to say that there are many believers in the curative powers of the "minute undetectable dose"

There are instances of ancient tribes drinking a small amount of their Chiefs urine, in order to aquire his power.
Water is not as pure as it should be...especially if it is taken from a river and cleaned by running it through sand and charcoal, birth control pill hormones come to mind.
Human female hormones and plasticisers like pthalates do have an effect upon the human body.
While growth hormones given to battery farmed cattle and chickens, often produce males breast growth.
The strong modern hormonal effects in our drinking water, mask the subtle Homeopathic effects of our ancestors when they drank the river water downstream from hundreds of humans and cattle upstream?
So not being able to turn back the clock, we will never know whether Christ and his followers bathing in the Tiber, had an effect some time later upon persons?

Even pond water and possibly well-water can be effected by chemicals and acids from rain, since every drop of rain condenses up in the atmosphere around a particle of dust.

I have no doubt that with close to 7 billion people on Earth and increasing, and with decreasing clean water supplies, more and more bad effects must increase.

http://www.worldometers.info/

Thank you for the fact and figure check, redewenur. If you would like credit at the bottom of the article, let me know.

I did find it exciting, and while I'm not Catholic the Pope should too, since in one sense the wine really is the blood of Christ. It is just matter, plain and simple, but cool to think where that matter has been!

Glad you liked the article Mike— thank you.

Don't think the water molecules would affect us physically at all, since one normal water molecule is identical to another in every respect (as far as I know).

There could however be other substances in with the water. Still, the fact that these substances were in someone else, and were minute in quantity, as well as (in the case of modern humans) subject to public water filtration, would seem to make any actual physical effects of these too having been in someone else negligible.

Psychologically though I like the fact that billions of molecules that are in us now were once a part of every other adult, present and past, including Jesus and other historical figures. For Christians and those brought up in the faith (like me) that is a special feeling, even though there are no actual physical consequences as a result.

You're right to mention those practically in the same breath, since none can be substantiated by science. They are matters of faith and, as has been demonstrated only too well, claims of the efficacy of such are commonly linked to dishonesty, fraud, deception and self-deception.

What you say about the measurable pollution of water is indisputable. It is, after all, measurable


It is a surprising realisation. Forgot to say thanks for a good read.

While there are likely no physical effects there could be psychological ones— we know the power of the mind over the body, not only in chemicals released by the brain but in change in attitude.

Else voodoo— not to mention superstition— would be powerless

Yea some of these ideas depend entirely on the placebo effect, which can be very powerful. Having a pretense of science behind it is useful to fool some uneducated people into getting the placebo benefits, which is great. But molecules from Jesus isn't actually meaningful information in itself - just part of the (helpful) con.

And how can you modify it to work on scientifically thinking people too? It's no good trying to come up with a lie that's so confusing nobody can refute it - because nobody will believe it either. I think some new, more powerful approach to placebos is needed to make them work on modern educated people.

Don't think it's the same as the placebo effect, at least for the science-minded. They know there is no direct physical effects or information via the molecules, so for them there is nothing misleading, no deception.

The power lies in how the knowledge of commonality of physical substance affects their attitude or mitigates the feeling of seperation (time and/or distance) between us and other living things, past and present.

Also I tried my best to not make it confusing. While I was brought up as a Christian I am no longer othodox in that faith. I now call myself a unitheist— more particularly, I believe in inspired naturalism but not supernaturalism or a traditional God.

Yea so it's just a psychological effect, which is fine if it does some good. But I think if that knowledge becomes widely known then it'll loses it's important feeling. It'll become like saying "Wow I'm walking on the Earth, the very same planet that Jesus walked on!" Well sure, but such a statement isn't very inspirational.

Good point kallog but a better example for comparison is going to the Holy Land to try to walk on the same spots on earth that Jesus trod. That has been going on for centuries, yet it still has impact for millions of believers, and has been inspirational for many.

I agree. While this process cannot, by any known physical law, be a direct cause of psychological and social well-being, it can be seen as analogous to a positive and exhilarating psychosocial phenomenon. To see it as more would require a leap of faith.

Nicely put.