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Joined: Jun 2005
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See there! I was right! You did already know - and you weren't really looking for an answer to a question. You were looking for a debate, a reason to pull out the soap box.

Have you read the entire NIST report on WTC7? Did you understand it? Did you consult any physicists or engineers before challenging random people on the Internet?

.
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Unsurprisingly, the turtle hasn't got anything intelligent to add. He could spend his time boning up on science texts; instead, he spends it sputtering obscurantist bull crap.

I notice that will all your egotistical mumbling, you never got around to adding anything to the actual content of the subject. But there's still time! Give it a go!

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Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend
Unsurprisingly, the turtle hasn't got anything intelligent to add. He could spend his time boning up on science texts; instead, he spends it sputtering obscurantist bull crap.

I notice that will all your egotistical mumbling, you never got around to adding anything to the actual content of the subject. But there's still time! Give it a go!
I was primarily interested in addressing the statement of yours toward cmatrix.
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend
Your questions demonstrate that you don't understand the physics, but you clearly have made your mind up about it.

I was mostly interested in whether you saw this accusation as scientific. I also made a statement to the idea that his question seeks a response to gain knowledge, and you responded without adding anything to lead the conversation to what you would call science, but instead more of an emotional accusation toward me and my knowledge of the subject at hand.
I never claimed to have an expert opinion of the physics so I don't feel I need to satisfy your need to steer the conversation toward my scientific contribution. That just seems more of a smoke screen to divert the attention from the original question posed by cmatrix about free fall so you could take time from your busy schedule and continue to tell me how unscientific I am.
I think you're just easily distracted.

I have every confidence that if you could answer his question and add something significant to what he already knows that he could know more than he knows now, and it would benefit anyone else who might read this thread regardless of whether they are a physicist or not. But it seems you are only interested in making comparisons about knowledge and who knows what to grade yourself, cmatrix and myself up to this point.

That seems more of a self worth issue.

From my point of view it would seem reasonable to expose the truth for all to see and experience from an objective point of view, rather than to claim the stupidity of everyone who hasn't yet grasped the superiority of your own point of view.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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5 hours is a walk in the park.

it might take a hour to get a team and the explosives on site.

but using remotely controled explosives means that it only requires the team to attach a cutting charge around several of the buildings main supports.

5 - 10 people could most likely do this in a hour or less

no problem.

P4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNqf56AFo

Thermite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-MCCZ3O1M&feature=related

yes to do this in the normal fashion would require thousands of feet of wireing and carefull placement of explosives.

and would require a long period of time.

but this could easily have been accomplished is 5 hours.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
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I have to admit I haven't really looked at the WTC thing in any detail, but I do have some engineering background, so to answer a few questions:

Steel columns typically fail by buckling rather than compression. When buckling begins, the column very quickly loses almost all it's strength - try buckling a foot of steel tape measure. It has very good compressive strength until it begins to buckle, then it becomes so weak it feels as if it's just evaporated instantly! Whatever was sitting on it is then in near free-fall.

My idea of the collapse is once one floor collapses, an overload is applied as the top part of the building lands on the bottom part. If the columns of the next floor are heat weakened so they're just about to buckle, then they'll absorb almost no energy being pushed over the limit, so will fail without slowing the collapse. However as soon as that floor starts to fail, it stops transmitting load to other floors, keeping them intact until the top of the building again lands on them, and so on, one after the other.

Fire damage in this case was abnormally severe because the initial impacts or explosions physically broke the fire protection off the steel.


cmatrix, can you describe how you would expect them to collapse from plane crashes?

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