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Originally Posted By: a_tinkerer
I have been to the old city of Jerusalem and seen the supposed site where Jesus healed the blind man. It is apprx 20 metres down from the current street level. That is intensive living on 1 spot for 2000 years.
According to the bible, Adam & Eve were created 6500 years ago. This at best means our Earths crust has grown around 70 metres at best in 6500 years. Geologists that search for oil will tell you our Earths crust is around 2000 metres deep. Where did the other 1930 metres of Earths crust come from????? Dead animals, fish plants, insects and humans-pretty obvious! They say our Earths crust has been growing things for 5 billion years.
The bible is chocka full of contradictions. i.e. 3 versions of the final words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.
The hallmark of Creation/nature/evolution is 'precision'. That precision is ‘not’ in the bible and thus the bible blows itself apart as anything credible to go by. If God can create perfection in nature he can proof read the bible to make sure it was correct & he didn’t. Yet misguided Christians will still keep saying it is the inspired word of God. Most books on the shelves out there these do not contradict themselves!
Yes at some stage there was some type of creation – something has to have come from somewhere.
The reality is 5 billion years ago, things were created on this earth. And us as humans will 'never' know the answer.
We can only guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take it that this is your best guess...


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Hmmm. OK. May I butt in? I was just passing thru. You know how it is.

Trying to sort it all out, are we? Digging deep into that voluminous store of genuine edumacated knowledge? Are some really so far ahead of others in their uh, "deep" understanding of the truth? lol

Was that what we were actually looking for? Are we sure?

Will we understand truth thru an additional course of study? No doubt, serious theology is our best friend! lol Perhaps the psychologists have some new results? The socioligsts? The archaeologists? The geneticists?
Perhaps answers lie hidden in the next book or maybe just around the next corner? Someone must know. Who could it be? What would they be like? How tall? How fat? We dig the details, don't we? And the concepts and ideas... the more convoluted and esoteric and learned, the better, eh? What a game to play.

If truth cost money, we would gladly pay, and we do so eagerly, over and over again! Are we ever satisfied? If it was free, we would be suspicious and we are, continually! lol Does our suspicion, doubt and confusion serve us well?

But we? We have no clue, do we? That is the overwhelming situation and condition. But don't take my word for it.

The truth we all seek is a complicated thing, no doubt. Peace must be really complicated, too. I mean, we've got all the best brains working on it day and night, right? They shuttle back and forth in their limos and declare their treaties all over the place. They sign guilded, acid-free parchments, exchange cerimonial pens and toast themselves and their grand, nearly- impossible-to-achieve accomplishments.

Others scream, virtually foaming at the mouth that we are all sinners and they shake their bibles at us and millions watch the show and sigh... Amen, brother. Amen. Boo-hoo-hoo.

And on the banks of the Mother Ganges the pundits are still punditing as their predecessors did in turn for hundreds and hundreds of years. They're still discussing it. Truth. They may be re-translating the last translation. I don't know.

Meanwhile.... everyone alive. Time is passing. The lights are scheduled to go off. It is a certainty. Don't worry about it. Consider it.

Don't forget to breathe. Try to not miss a single one. Just that simple awareness alone is all there is and all one needs. You can sit down and start gently, anytime.

Appreciation. Gratitude. Awareness. Love. Peace.



But, don't take my word for it. Be that scientist.








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Experience is a good lead into the truth. The experience of relative truth makes everyone an expert on their experiences, and in the lack of experience of a God it is really not all that surprising that everyone has something to say about the experience of a lack of experience or how to qualify any experience as Truth.

I think everyone does consider it at random levels of evolution within their own designs of reality. Every egotist wants to be the scientist, religionist, illusionist, perfectionist, spiritualist or etc-ist. I think the ones who are most successful in their ability to understand it all are the ones who aren't trying to contain it all, within the confines of an ism or the titles of ists.
The ones that notice what underlies it all and have become, that.

That, is, after all what the Bible and all other scripture of note is pointing toward.


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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Hmmm. OK. May I butt in? I was just passing thru. You know how it is.

Trying to sort it all out, are we? ...

Meanwhile.... everyone alive. Time is passing. The lights are scheduled to go off. It is a certainty. Don't worry about it. Consider it.

Don't forget to breathe. Try to not miss a single one. Just that simple awareness alone is all there is and all one needs. You can sit down and start gently, anytime.

Appreciation. Gratitude. Awareness. Love. Peace.



But, don't take my word for it. Be that scientist.

=============================================================
Anon Who: You mentioned the role of "awareness". Take note of the following dialogue which I had, recently at
http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/religion-and-faith/athiest-ad-buses?page=6
======================================

RevLindsayKing wrote:

7. But what scientific evidence is there that physicality is the only reality? Give us a good example.

To which I got the following response:

No problem. This morning at 9:15 am I filled a cup with water and drank from it.
====================================
Then I responded:

Now, prove it was the "real" smile you!

But seriously,

FEEL FREE, IF YOU WILL, TO TELL ME THAT I AM HAVING AN IMPOSSIBLE DREAM; that I am an incurable optimist; bonkers, nuts, out to lunch, but I strongly feel that all that we call evil, including all suffering and pain is, like ignorance, curable.

===============================================

I agree with those who say that the more and more of us who awaken to consciousness and become aware of who we really are the less evil there will be. When every human being becomes fully aware, there will be no evil. As Eckhart Tolle puts it (A New Earth, page 99):



AWARENESS IS THE GREATEST AGENT FOR CHANGE

To this I would add: Awareness grounded in, and powered by, the Power of Love (agape), the highest good.

=============================================

Honest atheists are right: The gods, or God, will not save us and bring the Kingdom of God, "on earth, as it is in heaven..."

If it is to be, it is up to "we", including "me".

However, this does not mean, for me at least, that we need to abandon the god hypothesis. All we need do is take a new look at what the hypothesis is all about.

Please yourself, but I have come to think of GOD, not as a super person separate and apart from us and existence, including the things we touch. God is the total, universal and all-inclusive Being, Life, and Presence operating in the Now (BLPN). We operate within GOD.

Keep in mind: Jesus took ordinary bread and wine and said, "This is my body." Ordinary things, like water, are outward and visible signs of an inward and invisible grace.

Last edited by Revlgking; 02/15/09 04:35 AM.
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I repeat: AWARENESS IS THE GREATEST AGENT FOR CHANGE.
=====================================================

Do you agree? Or disagree? If you agree, what are you doing about it?

Are you aware that, collectively, we are GOD. Note: I did not say, God, or a god.

If you disagree, what are you doing about it?

Last edited by Revlgking; 02/16/09 11:06 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I repeat: AWARENESS IS THE GREATEST AGENT FOR CHANGE.
=====================================================

Do you agree? Or disagree? If you agree, what are you doing about it?

Are you aware that, collectively, we are GOD. Note: I did not say, God, or a god.

If you disagree, what are you doing about it?
Awareness of awareness is what gives one insight into the creative force in creation. Awareness on the object or subject perpetuates the duality of relative idealism which is primarily an ego based assumption of reality.
It doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or disagrees when it is all surrendered back into the One.
The contemplation of GOD in the relative without the awareness firmly anchored in awareness is mental masturbation.
"Collectively" is a new age term used by the subjective mind dealing with the object/s of perception filtered through belief and opinion. GOD does not fragment itself, only ego fragments God into parts.
There is only God, there is no collective as such.


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I am a scientist but I am also religious. I am wondering what people of different beliefs and/or religions think about some of the new and advancing sciences. One of the sciences that I am currently working on is nanotechnology. I have even made a survey for people to give me there input.

http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/75546/nanotechnology

It only takes 10 minutes or so.

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I am a scientist but I am also religious. I am wondering what people of different beliefs and/or religions think about some of the new and advancing sciences. One of the sciences that I am currently working on is nanotechnology. I have even made a survey for people to give me there input.

http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/75546/nanotechnology

It only takes 10 minutes or so.
The survey doesn't take into account the human factor. The idea that a technology is beneficial without accountability of human choice, puts the technology ahead of human interaction. To ask if a technology will change mankind for the better is to assume technology will determine the human need, and any interest to connect with Humanity as its own creation.
Technology does not make a better class of people or make people more conscious. It is possible that the growing level of consciousness is a precursor to the advances in technology but it does not mean humanity has yet the ability to be less harmful to itself or less conscious about how it uses technology.
Today's technologies have become part of the reason we have polluted air and water. By products of fossil fuels and the inability to clean up after ourselves in almost every industry has not only helped man become more efficient in doing things but also more dangerous to the stabilization of the ecology of this planet.
If Nanotechnology has a waste product that will add to the current lack of conscious awareness in personal responsibility, it may go the same route as all the other technologies. Who is to say?


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Rev wrote:
Are you aware that, collectively, we are GOD.

No Rev we are not. We are humans, with all our faults, most of us trying to live happily in a helpful and caring way, but a few of us being miserable and disgusting. That's how it's always been. In Australia at the moment I can honestly say that the former are far out-numbering the latter. As usual. And nothing to do with any sort of god.

Some may call it, as I heard a cleric say, evidence of god amongst us, I prefer to think it is just people doing what they do best-- looking out for each other in a time of great need and sorrow.


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Originally Posted By: Ellis
Rev wrote:
"Are you aware that, collectively, we are GOD?"

... Some may call it, as I heard a cleric say, evidence of god amongst us, I prefer to think it is just people doing what they do best-- looking out for each other in a time of great need and sorrow.

So you are "looking out for each other" and you don't call that Good, Orderly and Desirable behaviour? The police in our area have this on all their cars: "DEEDS SPEAK"--a rather godly motto, I say.

BTW, I don't imagine, think of, or speak of "a" god or "any sort of god" either. Why do atheists insist that unitheists do? Are they insisting on defining "god" for us? Either they choose not to understand, or find they it impossible to get their minds around this concept of GOD as not just a noun? Which is it? with you.

BTW 2: Neither do most theists think of God as an objective being out there, when they really stop to give it some non-egoic kind of thought--the kind of thought Eckhart Tolle extols on pages 95 and 96 of his book, A NEW EARTH--Awakening to Your Life's Purpose.

There are some who accuse ET of condemning thinking. He does not condemn, or judge, anything--including thinking. What he says about thinking is "be aware of it" without being trapped by your thinking--good of bad--without identifying yourself with your thinking.

ET is also accused of burying his head in the sand, of not facing the facts of life--a common judgment atheists make of all people who are religious. Right in the middle of page 96 ET writes: "Facing facts is always empowering." Without going into it now, he also makes some interesting points about dealing with the emotions and our feelings of happiness and sadness, which make a lot of sense to me.
ENJOYABLE DIALOGUE, ELLIS


Last edited by Revlgking; 02/17/09 06:43 AM. Reason: GOD made me do it :)

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I am a scientist but I am also religious....
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/75546/nanotechnology

It only takes 10 minutes or so.
As one who loves science, I will later. I want to give it some non-egoic thought. BTW, I have some training in psychology and I am making the effort to have the science of pneumatology (google it, and check out Wikipedia)--the mother of psychology--taken seriously.

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Take a look at the following:


Use your imagination: What do the symbols mean to YOU?

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Anything that is on the size of 1 to 100 nanometers is nanotech. This include natural reactions in a biological system such as DNA hybridization or proteins. The hope in the medical feild is to one day mimic biological systems to help create better and more useful medications and treatments.

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"Use your imagination: What do the symbols mean to YOU? "
When a group of boobs come together, it's easy to overlook how silly things have gotten?


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I have NO idea what the symbols mean as I am totally distracted by the well-endowed ladies with the incendiary tail-lights!

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Personally I don't think that they're that well endowed, but as far as the symbols go... the circle within the heart represents oneness also an ancient symbol for God. The heart would be relative to desire and the Pyramid reminds me of the Masonic icon. Three sides could represent the 3 gunas also symbolized in the Om symbol and the Yin Yang symbol which are creation destruction and the nature of God as the support to keep it unfolding in the experience of time and space. The sunburst in the middle could also be symbolic of Consciousness/God.
People like to make symbols meaningful but the rockets with tits is a bit strange for modern angelic imagery..
Someones idea for a new church emblem.
http://unitheist.org/fbr.html
Scroll 8, Doombug A highly destructive nanobot, or doombug for want of a better name, likely too small to see without magnification, could yet be complex enough that it surely would never have been constructed by chance in nature, nor have evolved via other generally lesser forms, like a present-day virus or germ.
A Church with Psychic predictions......Or an interpretation of revelations perhaps. whistle


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Originally Posted By: Ellis
I have NO idea what the symbols mean as I am totally distracted by the well-endowed ladies with the incendiary tail-lights!
Ellis, thanks for your artistic comment. Click on the image for more about art and the arts.

Art is a form of human activity appealing to the imagination. The arts, including the making of words, things that can be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, touched are civilizations storehouse of felt values, the rendering of what has seemed important to those of imagination, profound feeling and great mastery of expression,
(Harpers)

The arts depend more on special practice, action, than on general principles. For example, writing in this forum is an art. It is more concerned with the action of communicating than with grammar--about the science of writing. Of course we need both, but writing owes more to art than to grammar. Similarly, well kept gardens owe more to art than to the science of botany and nature.

IMO, The artist works (Thanks, Warren Farr) to get our attention to that which is possible and probable--beautiful, good and true, or even ugly. The art of religion--that is, the kind, such a unitheism, without superstition--helps us make the choice as to which is which.
============================================================
Essays on art. And Google has many such:
http://char.txa.cornell.edu/art/introart.htm
http://www.progressiveliving.org/Art_Theories_files/purpose_of_art.htm

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Quote:
IMO, The artist works (Thanks, Warren Farr) to get our attention to that which is possible and probable--beautiful, good and true, or even ugly. The art of religion--that is, the kind, such a unitheism, without superstition--helps us make the choice as to which is which.
You do know what they say about opinions...
Anyway Artistry is subjective. The Idea that Unitheism has a grip on reality and helps one to know what is what, or which is which, is just as subjective as the idea of artistry.
True awareness doesn't come from the defining principles of belief and opinion. However awareness is often labeled through the subjective determinism of belief and opinion creating a closed loop, also known as the psychological box of limitation in belief and the ongoing changing evolution of egoic principles.

I'm amazed that anyone would think you could free the mind from idealism and ego by googling or reading any number of books.

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Rev- I am an arty type -- but I am puzzled by this effort. I clicked onto the thing with the sun and the circles etc and didn't feel like reading the screed there, so forgive me if my query is answered in the text, and put it down to laziness on my part.

Here's the question ---At what stage do I find out why the two mermaid-y, manifestly female figures literally become BOMBSHELLS?

Last edited by Ellis; 02/20/09 02:57 AM.
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Great dialogues at BrainMeta: You will note that two posters are ignored. It is not the content of what they try to say, but their opaque and obscure style.

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20440&st=0&gopid=98661&#entry98661
http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20379&pid=98662&st=0&#entry98662


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