Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Climate Change Forum Dust

I am writing this as an observer without any scientific qualifications to back up the content of the post--- but I would like to hear what others think on this.

Yesterday a huge dust storm made its way across SE Australia from the inland over Broken Hill and on through NSW to Sydney, and up though Queensland and possibly will reach New Guinea. The dust is spotting the snow on the ski-fields in New Zealand to-day. Whilst such dust storms are not rare, the size of this one, and its appearance at the start of Spring is very unusual. There was another huge dust storm in Victoria in the 80s, also after a drought, but that was in the middle of summer after very hot weather.

My point is-- the reason for this storm was that there is a 10 year drought in the heart of Australia, and unusually high temperatures too. The dry topsoil from the heart has been blown hundreds of miles to the coast and to the far north. This is very unusual. Indeed this storm was stated to be the biggest ever.

So, is it a sign of climate change, or merely an aberration of weather? Can we continue to deny Climate Change is happening, as many do in this country, or should we now start to find out if there is a genuine need to take these and other events as examples of what is to come if we don't do something to at least try to find some solutions?

As an observer like you, lacking the relevant expert knowledge, not to mention a teraflop supercomputer, I form my opinion through simple and possibly erroneous deduction. Nonetheless, it seems reasonable that there might be unusual variations in local weather patterns, with or without Global Climate Change, and it doesn't necessarily follow that any particular one of those local changes is indicative of GCC; but taken as a whole, the many changes occurring around the world add up to evidence. The real bone of scientific contention hasn't been 'if' but 'why'.


Do we deny it? I don't, and it seems you don't, though I guess there will always be a 'they' who do - there are lot of people prepared to swear black is white, come what may. As far as action goes by those who don't deny it, it depends on whether or not they think GCC is significantly attributable to AGW. Those convinced that it is are most likely to support counter-measures. My view is that unless global population is controlled then any measures, such as fusion power, will be either too late, too little, or both.

Yes global population does seem to be the uncomfortable truth that few are addressing. A forecast was made last week for 38 million in Australia by the 2050s. Meanwhile it seems though that we have not enough water already for the 22 million we have at the moment.

As to deniers of Climate Change-- we have a doozie in Parliament who, due to a voting quirk, has ended up with the casting vote in spite of winning less than 2% of the total vote. He is a firm disbeliever, and even went to the US to consult with 'experts' at his own expense!! I do not know who he talked to but they convinced him that he should use his vote to stop Climate Change legislation- because it does not exist. Hopefully a way can be found to resolve this situation.

It seems to me that even if it were not to be real, reductions in energy use and concern for the environment may be good for us all.

Ellis: "It seems to me that even if it were not to be real, reductions in energy use and concern for the environment may be good for us all."

Yes, even the GW deniers should go along with that.

On such a topic, since viewpoints of people like ourselves can't be based on first-hand knowledge, the best we can do is form opinions based upon those of scientific authority - so our opinions are determined not by what we know of the science, but by who we consider to be the most credible authority. That, at least, seems to be a logical approach to discerning the best approximation to the truth. Some people seem to have other ideas, and some people with a personal agenda will go to great lengths (and/or expense) to find an 'authority' whose viewpoint supports that agenda.

I've avoided posting on this topic since it's spun around in ever decreasing circles until...well, anyway, most of what can be said has probably been said repeatedly, and tempers have flared many a time.

Just a minute now , you are surrounded by the largest water supply ever , it's salty but it's there waiting to be desalinized.

you have one of the worlds largest coal reserves even if it is brown coal.

what happens when you pass steam over a bed of coal?
you get hydrogen , you still have steam , and salt does not travel with steam.

you could sell the salt as a green product.

you end up with hydrogen for power , water for drinking , and salt , there may be some coke in the process I'm not sure , and you didnt have to burn the coal to do this.

Continuous experiment regarding hydrogen production by Coal/CaO reaction with steam (II) solid formation

H2 concentration higher than 80 vol%

I believe that the wind is stirred up because of the increasing amounts of water evaporating and rising upwards north of Australia.

As the vapor rises wind would be generated and pulled across Australia towards the rising vapor.

I bet there are a lot of automobiles that are having problems due to clogged air filters.

Did they ground aircraft durring the storm?
because the dust could have really dammaged almost any type of aircraft.

Now would be a Great Time for Australia to invest in a wind farm.

also: dont put the generators atop the towers , let the
rotors turn a hydraulic fluid pump.

put a large generator on the ground then turn the generator with a hydraulic fluid motor.

A better way than the desal plant under construction to supply Melbourne would be to capture the water that does fall and direct it to underground aquifers or reservoirs. The excessive salt extracted from the sea-water is to be discharged into Bass Strait. I hope the fish like lots of salt with their environment!

We have wind farms already, not as many as we should have, but plenty are proposed.

As for the reason for the dust-- It is only possible to have this much top-soil flying around is if the drought has caused the dirt to be dry through lack of rain and so it is blown away. The drought has (and still is) been fierce in this area, and the top-soil is now in the Pacific Ocean! The winds have actually passed over our continent in a different position lately, leading to drought in various areas when the rain has failed, but flooding in parts of the country with unexpected rain falling.

Yes, there was chaos at the airports, visibility was the biggest problem.
And there was a second smaller dust-storm two days later-- it was yellow dust not red!

Ellis, jokingly, we Newfoundlanders used to have a saying: "Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, if God won't have us, the devil must!"

BTW, as a high school student, I remember reading an essay on

THE IMPORTANCE OF DUST. I am not sure if the following is the one. Does anyone remember having read a similar essay?
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http://www.wku.edu/~smithch/wallace/S547.htm