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#31368 - 08/01/09 03:55 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Welcome back to this entire topic from wherever it was hiding! It has been gone a long time.

In view of the God/Science skirmish at the start of this page I will suggest an interesting quote I heard today (but I do not know the origin)----

"Hope will never overcome Science."

An interesting statement I thought. What do others think?


Because this starts a new page I have to direct people to the discussion on the PREVIOUS page!!!!!




Edited by Ellis (08/01/09 03:57 AM)
Edit Reason: This post MOVED!!!

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#31370 - 08/01/09 05:41 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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But, would any scientist ever do anything if he really thought his hypothesis (belief-based idea) was hopeless? No great discovery that I know of was ever made by scientists who did not believe in them. I can't think of one hopeless explorer.


IMHO, faith, hope and love make for great and socially useful science. It sure helped me find this lost thread.


Edited by Revlgking (08/01/09 05:45 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#31494 - 08/08/09 04:23 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: DA Morgan]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Ellis, Kyra M and others. As you know, I said that because of some quirk in my 'puter, I cannot access this thread, directly.

This is just a test to see if this indirect method of going through the "watched-topic" section still works, as it did recently, to get into this thread.
==============
BTW, it is interesting to go back and read the early posts in this thread. This dialogue on the psychology and philosophy of religion and spirituality, has been a learning experience. Also, it is nice to see that there are people who are open-minded enough to agree to disagree, agreeably.

KATE AND ADMIN: I realize and appreciate that this is a science forum. It would be interesting to know what sciences, and technologies, are represented in this forum. Is there a list? Meanwhile, thanks for this Not Quite Science Section.

Besides the general arts subjects like English, History (including the history of religions, philosophies, arts and the sciences), Languages (French, Greek, Hebrew), Theology (including pastoral work and counseling people in pain and grief), Homiletics, Philosophy, Dramatics, The Bible as Literature, I have done some studies in basic physics and maths, and the soft sciences, like Sociology, Ethics, Economics and psychology--I even have certificate to practice hypnotherapy.

Does this latter qualify as a technology? Over the years--in cooperation with others in the healing arts and sciences--I have used it to help people stop smoking, lose weight, deal with other serious addictions, physical, mental and spiritual pain, obsessive-compulsive and self-destructive behaviour, phobias and the like.

To avoid the hocus pocus often associated with hypnosis I prefer to call what I do, pneumatherapy--helping people to take responsibility for, and control over, their own health without relying too much on drugs and surgery--medical technologies.


BTW, I have a great respect for all who are skilled in the sciences and technologies and who use them wisely, and especially when they are used morally and ethically in the service of humanity.


Edited by Revlgking (08/08/09 04:50 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#31838 - 08/27/09 01:27 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
A REVISED VERSION OF:
Miracles. What Are Miracles? Have You Experienced Any? Tell Us Your Experiences With Them.

From dictionary.com

noun,
1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.
4. a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality: a miracle of modern acoustics.
5. miracle play.
Origin:
112575; ME miracle, miracul (< OF miracle) < L m&#299;r&#257;culum, equiv. to m&#299;r&#257;(r&#299;) to wonder at + -culum

Word Origin & History

miracle, noun,

1137, from O.Fr. miracle, from L. miraculum "object of wonder"

First record of miraculous is from 1502.

====================

A COURSE IN MIRACLES (ACIM)

====================

Yes, there is a web site for ACIM. It is http://www.acim.org/

You will also find a good summary of ACIM at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles.

My copy of the book--that is, the combined volume of A COURSE IN MIRACLES--is dated April, 1986. That winter and spring, a group of us spent Sunday evening going through the book with a teacher, a Bill Naseby.

What I learned from this course was not unlike what I already learned from reading SCIENCE OF MIND and the others writing of Ernest Holmes. All seem to say: There is only one reality G0D and we have a choice: to reject or affirm this oneness and reality. Rejection is the way of pain and suffering; acceptance is the way to miraculous living.

IT WAS ON A FRIDAY EVENING THAT THE FOLLOWING "MIRACLE" HAPPENED
==========================
It was a Friday evening about 5 PM., when the phone rang. I was in the process of getting ready to take the family out to dinner--barring emergencies, a weekly habit.

The voice on the other end of the line was that of a young teenager who seemed very upset. When I said, hello, I could sense the desperation in her voice.

When she told me who she was, I recognized her as a church member who came fairly regularly, and had also taken the lectures on pneumatology, which I gave as a regular part of my teaching ministry. Her mother came, once in awhile, with the daughter's two-year old brother. The father never came. The family lived in a rented house. Obviously not well off, they lived near, if not below, the poverty line.


"Rev. King, I am calling from a pay phone, not far from where we have lived, 'till now." she said, "Dad has been without work for the last while and we got so far behind in our rent we have been evicted. We have no money, and I have no idea even where we will stay tonight. Can you help us? I feel so ashamed ... having to ask this."


In response, I told her: "Let me pause for a moment to gather my thoughts ... "

Then I went on: "I have a solution in mind, but before I tell you what it is, may I ask if you remember what we talked about in the pneumatology classes--about finding answers to the problems life often throws at us?"

"Yes!" she said, "You told us that God, is Spirit, not a he, or a human-like being. And I think you said that by connecting with, or tuning into Spirit we are led to the source of all wisdom and power. When we take action and do thiswe can find solutions to all life problems; we can open ourselves to receive the answers we need, and if we actively pursued matters, not just by asking, but by using our imaginations we can visualize the answers coming to us, somehow--sometimes through others, maybe. The answers needed are there for us to find..." She paused for a moment and, obviously in tears, added: "This is why I called you. Will you speak to mother and dad?"


After she told me that she was more than willing to use her imagination to get things started I asked. "Is your mother nearby?" When she responded "yes!" I said, "let me speak to her now for a minute or two. I want get her in on the whole process."


My chat with the youth's mothers was also a very positive one and she also agreed to use her imagination in the same way agreed on by her daughter. Then I asked: "What about your husband? ... May I talk with him? There more involved, the better."


The mother apologized and said: "He is not at all religious. He is very cynical about churches and he may not even want to speak with a minister, for fear you will preach to him. They are just businesses, he says, and only interested in people with money."

"Perhaps, he is right. Some churches are nothing more than clubs, museums for self-righteous saints--so heavenly minded that they are little earthly good. He may have had a bad experience with one. Never the less, let me have a word with him." I said.

It took a minute or so, but they were able to get him to come to the phone.

"Hello! This Jack" He did not sound all that happy. "I just finished putting the last few items we own on the truck I have....which I may have to sell" he said.

Briefly, and doing my best not to preach at him, I went over the conversation I had had with his wife and daughter. I asked him to tell me what he thought of religion. He was very open about his attitude and was a bit embarrassed that his daughter had called me. Then I asked him if he was willing to join in the meditative process with his daughter and wife.

He responded: "I would feel like a hypocrite praying only now that I am in trouble ..."

I said, "That's understandable. But I am not asking you to pray to, or beg from, a god ..." I said, I am asking you to use your reason and your imagination." I sensed that he was surprised and relieved by this comment. He became more open.

Then it came to me to use the following approach. I asked him: "Now that you need work and a place to stay, how do you feel about using tools like telephones, radios, computers and the like to help people find jobs, places to live, etc. , all the tools available to modern media? "

"Of course! I believe in using ones common sense" he said.

I continued, "For example, right now, your daughter used the phone to phone me, right? And she was not afraid to say what was needed..."

When he acknowledged the rationale of this approach I asked him if, on his truck, he had mattresses, bedding and blankets and enough of other things to make do for the week-end--I explained that social services are closed until Monday--He responded,

"Yes, we do ..."

I said, "Good! Be at the church parking lot--it is not far from you--in about 30 or 40 minutes from now. Here is my plan: I will let you into the church building. Another denomination, Seventh Adventists, rents the sanctuary and offices on Saturday, but upstairs, out of the way, there is a comfortable room, or two, and there is a kitchen where you can prepare food.

"Get a good night's rest and I will talk to you and your family tomorrow and Sunday. Then we will make plans as to what we need to say to social services on Monday about their shelter program.

Then I said: "Jack, you say you do not believe in a god up there who hears and answers prayers as a kind of celestial Santa Claus, but you do believe in computers which, if we know how to search, gives us information, agreed?"

"Yes!" he said.

"OK then" I said, "meanwhile, here is what I want you to do: Take five minutes and think of what I call G0D. I do not use the proper noun God."

Then I gave him my usual mini talk on G0D as all that is good, orderly and desirable--as being like a very powerful computer with a search engine program with which one can have a wireless connection via the mind and imagination. The I asked, "If that computer has all the information needed for us to find, would it not be foolish for us not to use it?"

He agreed.

I told him, "Now visualize, and imagine, that you are using this search engine to find a job and an affordable place to rent--no pleading with, or begging from, a god out there, OK? Then leave it at that and I'll see you shortly, as arranged."

AFTER THIS THINGS CAME INTO PLACE SO FAST THAT EVEN I WAS AMAZED.
============================================
About one half hour later, just as I was getting my keys to the car and go to the church, the phone ran.

"Rev, King, Jack here. Am I glad I got you before you left your house. I joined my wife and daughter and we did as you suggested. That imaginary computer/search-engine exercise did the trick. I was amazed with the results. And so fast! You do not need to come to the church tonight.

"Shortly after I stopped the exercise in imagination, which took less than a minute, I remembered a fellow truck driver who I had met, more than once, at a truck stop west of here, near London, Ontario, over a year ago. That was over a year ago. Several times I wondered if he had changed jobs. Then I opened my wallet and found the note. On it was his name, his phone number and the short message: I am planning to go into my own trucking business. If you ever need a job, give me a call.


"I had no idea where he was when I called tonight, but I answered the phone. He sounded really glad to hear from me. Then, with an apology, I explained to him what led me to make the call. I told him the whole story of what was going on with me and my family..


"His response really amazed me." He said:

"Since we met last I have struck it real lucky. I now own three trucks. You called me at precisely the right time. One of my drivers is retiring from the business and I need a driver. Come on out. The wife and I have no children, yet. We live in an old farm house which we just renovated, and which is about an hour and twenty minutes north west of Toronto.

"There is plenty of room for you, your wife and two children. Thank that daughter of yours. Her call to that church has brought us both together in a time of mutual need. If your as good a man as I think you are, Jack, maybe, the good Lord willing, we can make this business grow.

Anyway, we'll soon find out. Come and let's talk things over."

"Rev, thanks for the help. I think I have enough gas to make the trip."

BTW, take a look at the work of MIT professor of physics Dr. Seth Lloyd. His popular book PROGRAMMING THE UNIVERSE
http://www.randomhouse.com/kvpa/lloyd/
Compare it what I was advocating above, in the 1970's.
========

There are numerous such miracle-like stories out there. I have others that I plan to tell. Feel free to share any which you may have.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#31970 - 09/11/09 06:07 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 192
Loc: California
Wow did I read that right? 1.2 million views? That's awesome!

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#31990 - 09/14/09 01:48 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: DA Morgan]
exnihilo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 48
I'll take a stab at your brief statement. If there is an opining assertion sure to elicit responses it is yours, so indulge me to explain. I believe the problem of diverse opinions on the subject of God lies in the incomplete thoughts and theories surrounding religion. One of the most intrinsic characteristics of man is the desire to "know". Equally intrinsic is the search for truth and it means both are kind of interchangable. In this sense everyone is religious by attaching faith to one thing or another believing something to be true. Today, when God enters into it calamity ensues. For many who believe in God the Bible is their foundation for faith, on the other hand mainly the atheist relies on the sterile concepts of science as the foundation for their belief, so in fact atheism is a religion. The question is whether it is possible for one or the other to be true. It is and it satisfies both of the above intrinsic characteristics.

I would offer that the two main pursuits for truth and knowledge are destined to come together at a common meeting ground of understanding. This means one of the two has been built on a false foundation and one will have to acknowledge the other. What I am saying is science will have to acknowledge the concept of God at some point in the future. This does not mean the findings of science are wrong, only that the infinite plethora of speculation is wrong regarding many of these findings. The inquiry has not even determined what energy is let alone suggest there is no God. I furhter suggest don't believe that particles are the foundation for energy because they aren't. They are a manigfestation of energy, an "effect" from a source as yet undetermined notwithstanding quantum mechanics.

I will close by saying all of above will be proven by scientific review. When? I'm not sure but they are close. Keep a sharp eye on how dark energy is mitigated and absorbed into theory. It is a partial answer.

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#31991 - 09/14/09 03:02 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: exnihilo]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
exnihilo--- Atheism is actually characterised by a lack of belief. No-- you are not right whe you assume everyone must believe something is responsible for everything that exists-- some of us feel it could be through chance that we arrive here in 2009, not a god (in any of his her manifestations) or other 'reason'.

And I personally am not going to post on this particular aspect of this topic again. It's all there in previous posts (if you have accessed DAM (who no longer visits), you can read Rev, and the others. My typing fingers are tired. Good luck!

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#31992 - 09/14/09 04:35 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Ellis, et al: Help! at the agnosticism/atheism section of www.about.com I am surrounded by atheists and agnostics.

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ab-atheism&tid=43321
However, so far I am not allowing their karmas to run over my dogmas. laugh

There is constant action. To navigate, see messages. Click on any of numbers from 1 to 53 etc., and you will get a taste of what is going on.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#31993 - 09/14/09 07:05 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
However, so far I am not allowing their karmas to run over my dogmas.

Rev: That is one AWFUL joke (it made me laugh though.)

Nice to see you back here.

I may visit about.com later-- up to my neck in grandkids at the moment so logical thought is impossible!!

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#31998 - 09/14/09 04:56 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Ellis]
exnihilo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 48
Ellis__

I respect your sentiments regarding atheism. The subject is exhausting but it will never be closed to scrutiny. I thought I should respond once more because if one understands the word religious than he knows that it is a system of belief pertinent to religion, so if one has a belief in atheism it is a religious posture. God isn't the issue. Evolution isn't religious but it is based on a system of belief that denies creation therefore making it petinent to religion. Hence, by association it becomes a religious. I hope this allows you not to be so adamant that is certainly full of misunderstanding. Thanks for your comments.

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#32003 - 09/14/09 10:08 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
entropic42 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2
Loc: 12th dimension
Well i'm going to try to be respectful here, but I may slip up. I'm truly sorry if I offend anyone it's not my intention. My philosophy on religions...is basically that they do more harm than good. I used to be christian but for the past 5 years or so i've been enjoying life and not concerning myself with who or what I should worship. Historically most wars are caused by religious debates, and while I realize that more recently they have been religious extremists I think the point is still a good one. I truly believe that humans have a profound need to believe that there is something out there much greater than ourselves. This need drives us to believe in supernatural gods. Being an aspiring scientist one of my current favorite quotes says "science cannot operate on faith alone". It's practically in my job description to be open minded and skeptical. If someone came to me with absolute irrefutable confirmation that there is a god out there great! i'd take a look, but as of yet there is nothing like that out there. Atheism, since you asked, is as much of a religion as anything else. It still requires that you ascribe to a set of beliefs or non-beliefs in this case. It closes you off to the possibilities life has to offer. Overall I just think that religion is helpful to those who don't want to deal with the harsher parts of life.
_________________________
parsimonious as always...

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#32008 - 09/15/09 05:39 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: entropic42]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
It (atheism) closes you off to the possibilities life has to offer....wrote entropic 42.

And what are these 'possibilities'? Life after death, or the lack thereof, I can understand as a horror for a believer--- but I do not for one moment expect it---so its lack does not upset me! Death comes to us all in the end.

Meanwhile I have a very interesting and fulfilling life, with achievements to enjoy and share with those I love. Life really is what you make it, and if you acknowledge that you'll only get one go at it you give it your best effort! Certainly I am not conscious of any likely 'possibility' that I am sad to have missed.

Atheism is not a belief system--- it is not even a non-belief system. Non-belief requires recognition of belief and the role of faith. Atheism is a lack of belief-- pure and simple. I do not believe that there is a supernatural realm anywhere, any variety. This is it-- reality!


Edited by Ellis (09/15/09 06:00 AM)
Edit Reason: clarificaion

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#32015 - 09/15/09 05:04 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Atheism is a lack of belief-- pure and simple.


Pure and simple? A belief in ones self as ones principles in a determinate point of reference is still a belief regardless of whether one decides to withdraw from another's point of view or point of reference.
Originally Posted By: Ellis

It (atheism) closes you off to the possibilities life has to offer....wrote entropic 42.

And what are these 'possibilities'?

The possibility that ones own belief in a lack of beliefs pure and simple is all one will ever experience or label themselves because they shut the door to anything else. The possibility that one has taken a position based on the inability of the authority they worship and believe in, to wander any further than they will, beyond the borders of the box. The possibility that one could expand even further than they are now because they believe in the finality of a beginning and an end determined within the conscious awareness they cling to.

A Wiki point of view....


Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

The term atheism originated from the Greek (atheos), meaning "ungodly" or "deserted by the gods," which was derogatively applied to anyone thought to believe in false gods, no gods, or doctrines that stood in conflict with established religions. With the spread of free thought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to self-identify as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century. Today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist, while a further 11.9% is described as nontheist. Between 64% and 65% of Japanese describe themselves as atheists, agnostics, or non-believers, and up to 48% in Russia. The percentage of such persons in European Union member states ranges between 6% (Italy) and 85% (Sweden).

Atheism tends towards skepticism regarding supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Common rationales include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical.

In Western culture, atheists are frequently assumed to be irreligious or unspiritual. However, religious and spiritual belief systems such as forms of Buddhism that do not advocate belief in gods, have also been described as atheistic. Although some atheists tend toward secular philosophies such as humanism, rationalism, and naturalism, there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.


Pure and simple..... tired The older one gets the less the mind is open to possibility.
Originally Posted By: Ellis

Life really is what you make it, and if you acknowledge that you'll only get one go at it you give it your best effort!
When you confine life to "pure and simple" based on the individual point of reference you have made it according to personal definition. If there is much more to it than you yourself are conscious of then you can never really say you've made the best of your life if you know not of the potential of life. Rather when having self prescribed a life of being forced between two walls that are a beginning and an end you can say you have done the best you thought you could do without knowing there was more than what was contained between those two self constructed walls.
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Certainly I am not conscious of any likely 'possibility' that I am sad to have missed.
Most say that until they are about to die, and with that realization comes a plethora of I wishes that, "I would have done this or that with my life..Said this or that to that someone or gone somewhere I never went to".. These are the things all people experience regardless of their self title and beliefs or beliefs in non belief when they think they only have one shot and are faced with the recognition that the world and even the universe contains more than they could experience in any one lifetime.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#32049 - 09/16/09 08:03 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Ellis
... Atheism is a lack of belief-- pure and simple. I do not believe that there is a supernatural realm anywhere, any variety. This is it-- reality!
So Ellis is an asupernaturalistist. But she does not exclude being a takeactionist
Sounds very unitheistic to me.

My lastest revision of GOD-and-the-supercomputerstory


THE SUPER ANALOG COMPUTER
===================================
There was once a brilliant computer scientist. He was also a reluctant agnostic, if not an atheist. His father was a theologically conservative minister, who had a child-like and an unquestioning faith in a supernatural God. Despite their differences the father and son got along well. They loved and respected each other. Their debates were always friendly ones--more like dialogues.

One day, he phoned his father:

"Dad, Voltaire once said that if God did not exist, we would have to invent him." Well, Dad, I think I have finally done just that--I mean that I have created an infallible, all-knowing and all-powerful computer. Come and check it out."

"What!!! What are you talking about, son?" his father asked, in amazement.

"Let me put it this way: I feel I have put together what I hope is a god-like computer. Furthermore, it is voice-activated. Anyone who can think and talk will find it easy to operate. No matter what question you or I ask it I am sure it will give us the information we need to know.

The son, loved his father. He simply questioned his father's child-like faith. "Dad" he said, "Come and test it for yourself.

The father, who loved his son, agreed. I'll be at your place in about an hour."

Sure enough, no matter what question the son, or the father--who was well-read in philosophy, science, history, the Bible, theology, even mundane subjects, such as sports--asked the computer it gave the right answer.The father was very impressed.

After a silent pause he said,

"Son, you know I have always been a man of faith, but I must confess that there have been times when even I have had my doubts as to whether or not there really is a God who pays attention to us and our prayers. The death of your brother last year despite all those prayers of your mother and I and the church, was especially troubling to me, as, I am sure it must have been to you."

Delighted to hear his father's humble confession, the son replied:

"Okay Dad, now is our chance to find out. Why don't we ask the computer? Better still: Why don't you go ahead and pop the question?"

After a long pause, screwing up his courage, the father, got on his knees in front of the computer and, gingerly in a gentle and humble voice, he asked: "Infallible computer, please ... I hope it is not too bold for us to ask you ... to tell us:
"Tell us, Is there a one true God--one all-loving Heavenly Father who hears and will answer all our prayers?"

Immediately the computer turned into a pink cloud. It filled the whole room with a glorious light. And out of the cloud came a strong and beautifully resonant and god-like voice:

"THERE IS NOW!"

=====================000000====================
You know! Perhaps a thousand years from from now, when we wake up and have enough brilliant, moral, ethical and loving human beings we will be able to create such a computer and, collectively, build the kind of peaceable kingdom on earth--or should it be a republic?--we all yearn to have.
====================================
The above is my version of a story I heard somewhere. Does any remember coming across the person who first told a similar story?
===============
The signature I use at
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...m&tid=43321
Like the great Carl Jung, I do not believe there is a god called God; I know G0D (G zero D) as all that is--physically mentally and spiritually.

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#32061 - 09/17/09 07:57 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Hiya Revl.

So would it be fair to say that you "define" G0d as "all that is--physically mentally and spiritually" --or that it is the only definition that makes sense for you?

I might add "creative emergence" or emergent creativity/creation" to the list of "all that is."

~ wink
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Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#32070 - 09/18/09 02:58 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: samwik]
Revlgking Offline
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Sam, as a unitheist http://www.unitheist.org I welcome any positive additions to this concept, including your additions.

We need a non-doctrinaire kind of theology--one which unifies, without demanding uniformity; one that embraces all humanity and all people of good will.

Sam, you write: "So would it be fair to say that you "define" G0D as "all that is--physically mentally and spiritually."

Yes!

BTW, instead of using the proper noun, God--which implies that God is a person, a being with gender, size and dimensions--I like using the following acronyms, G (0)zero D, and/or GOD. Both refer to that which is all good, orderly and desirable. I use them to express what I think of as the all-inclusive nature of divine being, which encompasses us and the cosmos. As Being itself, it also interpenetrates every atom of our being.
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#32072 - 09/18/09 06:44 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Ellis]
exnihilo Offline
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Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 48
Don't know if you will read this or not. I'll make it brief. I don't think in my comment there is any reference of placing responsibility for everything in existence. Also, when anyone is born I have no problem with a chance birth. But I really have a problem with evoultion by chance. The claim does not fit the goods, if you know what I mean.

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#32099 - 09/21/09 01:50 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: exnihilo]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
exnihilo, say what you just said in a different way. I didn't quite get the point you are making.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#32100 - 09/21/09 03:29 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Kyra M Offline
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Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 91
I believe nothing is by chance, it is by sequence, cause and effect - connectiveness exists because of this.
It rolls in on itself and then out again in a never ending, spherical many dimensional, ebb and flow of creation - up to 95% of which is non physical(as we know it).

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#32102 - 09/21/09 04:03 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
exnihilo Offline
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Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 48
Revigking_

Your request for clarification of my comments means you must have peered a litle deep into the content. I appreciate that.

Truth is elusive no matter the track followed, and science and religion are at a standstill in their engagement with each other. If there is any final truth in what both are pursuing than by necessity it must be an absolute truth. Time will prove one or the other is right, thus one must already possess absolutes. Both sides argue aritrariness in the other which gets nowhere. The uncertainty both sides experience and attribute to the other can be resolved at a coomon understanding.

Sir, nature is beguiling but it is benevolent. It is coaxing both sides on a particular path whether they know it not, and one or the other is going to have to acquiesce to the other. There is a lot of uncertainty in theoretical physics and the main reason is it is not even known what energy is. It is known to exist by its manifestation but it is reduced to fewer and fewer parts until there are only a few parts, and there may be just one part. Science is approaching the point of encountering that part and it isn't anything like the parts they have managed to construct and label thus far. I am prepared to say there is indeed only one part and it is responsible for everything we experience, and it can be proven with the tools of science, namely math. But that does not mean there is no God that engenders a religious pursuit purposefully, because science is going to discover, and what they are going to confirm, is that energy is an "essence" of something. At that point science will have to acknowledge that existence is greater than ourselves and not the sterile construction that has been manufactured. I suggest science is going to find themselves, genericlly speaking, exactly where religion is. That is the common meeting ground.

This is a little different rendering of what I have said. I hope it helps you out. There is so much more to it, I wish this forum could handle it.

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