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Hi Andist,
Thanks for your observation! I'm off to read your other posting,
Cheers,Kyra.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


THE UNIVERSE AS US
==================
I love living in the Now.
But let me make myself clear:
This doesn't mean that I find the Now
Always sensually attractive,
Or even likable.
There are times when I find
That the Now is miserable and filled with pain,
Including pain-filled people.


This is not a description of living in the now but an idea or belief of being in the now. Kinda like a preacher speaking all about God when he doesn't have the actual experience of God in a church filled with people who believe in God as a man living in the sky.....


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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I think with the Whole(as described in my theory)it only 'is'. This is not the same as 'now' as 'now' implies a past and a future whereas in the Whole, time is non-existent.

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Originally Posted By: Kyra M
I think with the Whole(as described in my theory)it only 'is'. This is not the same as 'now' as 'now' implies a past and a future whereas in the Whole, time is non-existent.
The "NOW" the Reverend refers to is from his readings and misinterpretations of Eckhart Tolle. That "NOW" is the still presence of the absolute within all experience. The isness of being that is EVERYTHING, connected and whole. IT has direction, when given impulse that is initiated as thought or desire.
It, is PAST/PRESENT/FUTURE, and it is not linear but NOW/TRUTH/ABSOLUTE.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Time is a man made concept.

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"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for
an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity."

Einstein


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Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Time is a man made concept.

It came with the concepts of identification in being a man or human.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Some people may be having trouble reading my first post so here it is again!
Kyra M
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Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 32 The Concept of the Whole and Threadism ©Kyra K 2009
Andrea is discussing this with me.

I don’t know, Andrea, maybe it’s not that different from what others have written.
Probably not. So, when do you want to start?[Remember, you did ask me to help you.)
Yes, I need someone to ask me questions and bounce back (with more questions to my answers). It’s all speculation you know.
Everything is. Well, everything which addresses the meaning of life etc, is.
Okay, here goes. Scientists are saying that 25% of the Universe is dark matter and 70% of the Universe is dark energy - that is a whopping 95% of everything being this ‘dark’ stuff which may, or may not, co-exist. It is through us, with us and I think it may be us.
Hang on, am I supposed to argue with this now?
Well, what do you think?
It’s a bit simplistic isn’t it?
I wish it was.
Well, it’s no secret that you have Pantheist leanings. The Pantheists believe just what you have said, that everything is the Universe and the Universe is everything.
Yes, but not that one part is matter-aware and the other part is energy-aware.
Which is which?
Look, I don’t know, but consider this hypothesis. We are matter aware and the other part of us, which exists with us, but also separate to us (seemingly) is energy aware.
You say seemingly?
Well everything is joined – just that some are not aware that it is. I think that’s why meditation works. When humans are able to let go of the physical for a few seconds, minutes, hours or even days as some monks can, we tap into the dark energy.
We are not aware that we are aware?
Well, we are, of course aware that we are here, but not all of us are aware that we are part of the Whole: dark energy and dark matter combined. And let’s stop calling it dark. Just because scientists can’t see it, it doesn’t make it dark. We have nothing to quantify its colour. I will call both forms ‘Light’ from now on. As in Light energy and Light matter.
Yeah, I do agree with you about the dark inference, it makes it sound sinister. So what you are saying is that we are all part of the same thing, this Light energy and this Light matter stuff?
Okay, consider this, the Light matter may be what is live. Everything that has life, as we know it, has awareness, even if they are not aware of having awareness. Light matter 25%. Then another 70% is Light energy which still has awareness because, I believe, it is connected. And the other 5% is all the physical matter: bodies, bone, fur, feather, mineral chemical and inert material.
Yeah, we humans are aware of being aware. And some other animals may be aware of being aware, too.
Yes, but I am talking about all life: insects, animals, germs, microbes, bacteria and all the botanicals being the 25% Light matter. But still connected to the 70% Light energy.
I have thought of an analogy. As I said before, this is probably not original, but it is the closest I can get, to explaining myself.
I’m listening.
A flock of birds seem separate but to themselves they are not completely separate. They are connected to the lead bird and he/she to them. One entity, many parts. When flying formation this connection is obvious (they instantly move as one while they still have their own position and place) but it may be they have some sort of connection which is not so obvious at other times, too. So might all animals and insects and even plants. It could be species specific (this close awareness of the others). And we humans have this too, for example: when there is a short story competition or call for an anthology a lot of the entries/contributions will have the same theme. And it also explains other synchronicity. Let’s take this a step further, perhaps all life is connected (animals plants, microbes humans etc) and all death, as we know it, is connected as well.
Death?
After death of the outer shell (our separate state) we are awoken to the awareness (it has always been with us) of light energy. And this Light energy has far more consciousness than the consciousness we live through our physical selves. It may be like the flock of birds flying in formation all seeing through the same eyes and feeling though the same body of the flock.
Like I said, I think we are connected to this Light energy in life even when we have the ‘shell’. So everything, both Light energy 70% and Light matter 25% is one at all times, or the Whole.
That is some concept. What about the nitty gritty matter, the blood and bone, leaf and fur, so to speak?
Mere packaging (and only a tiny 5% of all) and it is the way we (all living organisms) can abide in this environment.
Oh, that’s what you mean by the ‘shell’. But just how are we ‘connected’?
I think it may be through threads. Something similar perhaps, to radio waves (different frequencies and strengths) but the connection is like tissue (in a human body) we need it to be the ‘Whole.’
Let’s call this connection Threadism. Perhaps it is also part of what we used to call instinct and intuition.
So now, whenever I look at someone else, I remember that their Light matter and Light energy is our/my Light matter and our/my Light energy.
And when this body wears out I will still be, but with more awareness.
The awareness of the Universe.
The Universe or the Whole (except for the 5%) Yes, exactly. Not The Universe but We Universe.
Yes, well, how did us/we Universe come about?
Look, like I told M, I am just like a horse trying to explain/understand how a television works; what I have here is just a line (drawn with my hoof!) depicting the side of the screen. I certainly don’t have all the answers.
Why do we need to come here as sentient, or living beings?
Well, I think, for variety. Entertainment, stimulation, change, growth. (Andrea, don’t forget there are other life-filled planets). As The Whole we all benefit. We humans learn what benefits, or you could say what is right, by cause and effect, conscience and acknowledging Karma both good and bad. From this, we as humans have gained tolerance, understanding and compassion.
Connection, passive or otherwise, strengthens or makes possible these learnings. Anyway, a lot of what we think is bad, is not - like dying for instance.
Also, I think that not all of the 70% of us that is light energy (not physical) has to interchange with the physical, or the 25% Light matter, ever. For this bit of Us, perhaps the Us that lives in the Physical, are like our novels or short stories! Lol.
What are the advantages of believing in this?
Well, no envy - you can be truly happy for another when you know the other is you, (by Threadism) as well. No selfishness. No fear of the future. We learn that listening to our ‘Instinct or Intuition’ or the voice of the Whole, and seeing synchronicity for signs of Threadism as well, can help us live a more fulfilled life. And understanding that Karma is working for us.
And I guess you don’t have to worry about death.
Exactly, and it (this belief) makes you want to live.
How so?
Well, for the good of the Whole you want to enjoy and experience life as much as you can. And also learn from Karma.
Is all suffering karma then?
No, not all. I think the only way we can control the 5% which is the actual matter and the elements too, which bring disaster (in our thinking) etc, is by collective learning. This learning has led us to manipulate our environment (and our lives). And we have learned by our mistakes and successes. We, the Whole, are not perfect or omniscient. Even though We are connected it does not stop people, microbes germs, elements etc from doing their separate thing, be it ‘wrong’ (by human standards) or just following their own nature. But of all the parts of the Whole, humans have had more influence/control over themselves and their own environment.
Now, how can I get this straight?
I’ll try and quantify it in numbers.
1. We are all part of, and therefore, the Whole. Less the 5% physical: blood, bone, fur, feather bodies, minerals, gases and inert matter. Which we are learning to control.
2. There is no need for envy or fear of the future. No need for selfishness. We should look at everyone as the Whole.
Before I go on, I should explain (although you would already know this) that not everyone knows they are part of the Whole.
But they still would be?
Yes, but, like an arm that has gone to sleep because some of the circulation has been cut off, they are separate.
But you said..?
The arm with the circulation partly cut off has the blood, life force, still circulating. The arm is joined to the body but it feels separate and is not good for the body.
We can still acknowledge that it (those unaware) is part of us but we need to do something about it.
I see, make it/them aware.
Yes, rub the circulation back (lol), support, understand. Or, in some cases, keep away.

Okay, 3 - No need for fear of death. Or for us to say there is no god, when people/ animals die.
Death is not the big deal we thought it was. Although, of course it is very sad for those still in the physical 5%. But for We that die (shed shells) it is a greater awareness. And We are still joined to those loved ones by Threadism.

4. The god is WE (connected) with the Whole by Threadism.
Light energy 70%, Light matter 25% and Outer shells (what is visible) 5%. Only the shells go back to stardust.

5. For the Whole there is no time but IS.
We experience this life as we know it, for growth, interest and awe, for the good of the Whole. And to learn by our mistakes and triumphs, take notice of Karma and synchronicity, instinct and intuition. The Whole is evolving.

6. We may feel separate but this is so we can get the maximum benefit of being a living being. Synchronicity and Karma, instinct and intuition, show we are still connected by Threadism.

7. Just like the numb arm we are still part of the Whole, even if we are not aware.

8. In parting with the shell we become more aware, as we are awake to the greater Whole.
Mm… interesting concept. Do you think it will catch on?
Well, if I’m right, others of Light Matter know this already.
And the Light Energy has always known.
Precisely.

NB - I think, We (95%) are as connected to the 5% as a musician is connected to a trumpet/ trombone etc. We blow breath (life) through it and the music we play is an extension and expression of ourselves.

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Kyra M, as you said:
"I think with the Whole (as described in my theory) it only 'is'. This is not the same as 'now' as 'now' implies a past and a future whereas in the Whole, time is non-existent."

I agree that the Now, in the absolute sense, is an eternal Whole., But surely it is a dynamic and flowing kind of eternal Whole, not like some snapshot frozen in time and space without the power to change for the better.

As human and imaginative beings, it seems to me, we have the power, from the point of view of Now, to stand back and look at what is and what can be.

We have the god-given power to remember the past "nows" without being trapped by them. We are not just puppets on the strings of heredity and environment. We need not allow ourselves to be condemned to be victims of painful memories and base instincts--the kind that lead to blood feuds and wars; the kind that force us to evolve, without any choice in the matter, with one unconscious goal in mind--that of survival.

I like to think that using the god-like and creative powers of faith, hope and love we can consciously create in the Now--moment by moment--the kind of future Nows in which all good is possible, ad infinitum.


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BTW, Jean and I just got back from a visit to Tofino, BC, on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

The King family, including our three grandchildren, went to celebrate Jean's 80th. birthday--there were over 100 guests at the all-day party. Catherine was the one who introduced me to the writings of Eckhart Tolle.

She and her husband, Wayne Adams, are both artists who know how to live and create in the NOW. They grow most of their food on a floating garden. There is also lots of fish. Every time we see this work of art (started in 1993)-in-process, we are reminded of what it is to be in the Now.

We spent 12 days with them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqbfiejLdM


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Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Time is a man made concept.


Time is no more a man made concept than force and kinetic energy:

Force X time = Energy

Last edited by Andist; 07/25/09 09:55 PM.

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I would have thought that time was not a human concept too--- we can devise ways that we find efficient to measure time, but that does not mean that time will vanish if we do not exist to observe it. (At least that is what I think <rather nervously>-- no science there though, just opinion, that's why I post it in NQR!)

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Hi Ellis and Rev and Andist,

As you said time implies a quantitative state that must be measured. The 'tools' we use to measure time are man made eg clocks, calendars. With our limited 'time' as humans we have found a need to have this measurement. Does it exist beyond us?
Others with a limited life-span and the knowledge of this would probably have their own time concept, too. It would not be an exclusively human trait.

Have you noticed that all time measurements have a frame of beginnings and endings? Morning/night, AM PM, January beginning, December ending. Or as in Australia: June end of the financial year, July beginning of the financial year. But all from one point to another point, whether we call them beginnings or endings is immaterial.
I believe Time for the Whole/Universe does not exist as there is no 'point to point' basis or need for it. But it certainly exists for us.

Rev, (and I'm being a little pedantic here) living in the Now is impossible as the Now becomes the past as soon as we think of, or become aware of it. Perhaps living in the hour, or day or second may be more accurate.
Glad you had such a nice holiday!

Andist, by way of our humanity, anything we think up is a man made concept!

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Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Ellis and Rev and Andist,
... Rev, (and I'm being a little pedantic here) living in the Now is impossible as the Now becomes the past as soon as we think of, or become aware of it. Perhaps living in the hour, or day or second may be more accurate. ...
I agree. Time like motion is simply an infinite series of stops (nows) on the way to forever, which is always tomorrow. smile


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: Kyra M
Hi Ellis and Rev and Andist,
... Rev, (and I'm being a little pedantic here) living in the Now is impossible as the Now becomes the past as soon as we think of, or become aware of it. Perhaps living in the hour, or day or second may be more accurate. ...
I agree. Time like motion is simply an infinite series of stops (nows) on the way to forever, which is always tomorrow. smile
This is the kind of confusion that is generated from reading books such as Tolle when he references the Now. One who has no experience of the Now projects from their experience of the past, old ideas, trying to make them new and for the future. The present moment or the "Now" as referenced by Tolle is eternal. It is a state of innocence such as that of a child where there are no preconceptions of the moment burdened by a memory of the past and accordingly no projection of a future, only NOW. It is connecting with God and with no judgments or belief. Pure being and the experience unfettered. But then if you have no experience of God but rather a personal idea or opinion laden with beliefs and preconceived ideals prompted by subconscious programs, everyone's now is subject to conflict by the clashing of personal opinion and belief. No one really connecting in Unity with God because unity means to them, everyone thinks and acts alike. A union that is a democratically derived agreement in experience and belief. God clones.

Words such as God and the Now then become obscure and personality begins to create meanings and acronyms to isolate personal belief as the quintessential product of an imagined God.

This is also why the meaning of scripture has been lost to the individual and personal ideals of egoic idealism. With no Authority, and with the ego having a fear of being limited by an opposing thought, all Truth in Origin is lost to the democratic process so that everyone may have their own reality and their own definitions of universal principal.


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KM, the following question came to me this morning:
How come this forum has relatively few paralogists, which World Book Dictionary defines as false reasoners?

BTW, all dictators--those claim all power and to have the truth are paralogists. A number of them destroyed the first forum in which I participated. Our host, a financial adviser at a national news paper, because he feared being called a censor, refused to discipline them, and there was no ignore button. He finally had to close down the forum.

Ironically, they also claimed of be experts in finances and economics--the same kind who helped bring about the current depression of the economy.


The good news is: We need paralogisms--bad examples of how to communicate. They at least serve to help us appreciate god-like, that is, good communication--dialogue that, without dogma, rant and negative rhetoric is good-will based and designed to create harmony and the spirit interested in community encouragement.

I wonder how our moderators feel about the damaging effect dictatorial paralogisms can have in this forum, especially one dedicated to the nature and function of science, including philosophy about it as in NQSF.


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


I wonder how our moderators feel about the damaging effect dictatorial paralogisms can have in this forum, especially one dedicated to the nature and function of science, including philosophy about it as in NQSF.

It might be that each person has a mind and the ability to reason beyond superstition and projection.
Without feeling threatened by what another can express freely, moderation comes to be the guiding principal of wisdom rather than reactive and closed minded in making things personal. To perceive the information at the expanded level rather than one from personality, belief and the reaction to personal feelings, one has to relieve themselves of subjective idealism and see the possibility that there is always something greater than any personal opinion, otherwise one becomes complacent and protective of ones own beliefs and opinions and often easily feels threatened by anything that comes into conflict with the personality and those beliefs.

Such a moderator who is personally invested then becomes a Paralogist by dictating what freedom of expression is through the subjective attachment to their own beliefs and idealisms, rather than the objectivity of wisdom that is free from such egoic limitation.

I would suppose the moderator of a forum who was being objective might take someones opinion and set it aside, in and amongst all the other opinions so that something greater might arise from the diversity of belief, giving the option to those who had any stress about feeling left out or unloved to seek their own satisfaction by isolating themselves to something less exposed to the world and its varying degrees of social mores that are strictly intellectual understandings.

It's always a choice to see and project Good or evil, and those ideas are going to be relative to how much one is immersed in belief and opinion, or the objective awareness of the NOW.


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KM, to improve communications let me expand on what I want to say about dictatorship, past and present, in any category of life. Here I include theocrats--including Pagan and Christian emperors, kings and certain modern Islamic rulers. All tyrants, including any who claim to have God and all truth on their side, are paralogists no matter how benevolent they claim, and appear, to be. Needless to say, dictators insist on having control of all media, including the WWW, the Internet.

Incidentally, I first went on line in 1997. I was invited by
a financial writer--a real gentleman--at a national news paper to participate in a forum, which he agreed to host. With the assumption that all participants would be like him, he set it up to discuss the creation of Wealth, Wisdom and Wellbeing (holistic health)--WWW. Although I wrote some things in the Wellbeing section, most of my participation was in the Wisdom, or philosophy of WWW. I was involved until it closed down in, 2004? Like here, I made no secret of the fact that I was, and still am, a minister.

No matter what I wrote, from the get-go, I and a few of us--ones who were interested in dialoguing about real and serious issues and ideas having to do with the integration of body, mind and spirit--attracted diatribe and vitriol from the flaming paralogists who hid behind their pseudonyms.

However because he feared being called a censor, our host neglected to discipline the flamers--and there was no ignore-button.

Eventually a group of serious financial writers broke away and formed a no-nonsense group of their own to strictly discuss finances, which banned flamers. The loss of this group led to our host closing down his forum. He now blogs for his paper.

Ironically, many writers claimed to be interested in finances and economics. And yet, as I recall, not one of the "experts" saw and wrote about the flaws in our current, debt-based fiat system, which we now know led to the current financial melt down.

THERE WAS A WARNING
===================
One writer, a friend of mine who I introduced to the forum, did issue a warning regarding the collapse of the American and Canadian dollar.

Based on common sense, we both called for reform of our debt-based fiat financial system--assets to banks, debts to borrowers. We both called for a financial system back by real and valuable assets. He was hot on the use of metals like gold, silver, and the like.

Because any economy must have workers--white and blue collars--I added: Let us not forget that workers, willing to do real work, are also assets as well as metals. Both of us were flamed for our opinions. We know now that what we wrote is a present and prophetic reality.
================
THE GOOD NEWS IS---as I said above.
================


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Hi Kyra, and other participants on this forum, too...

I find your theory uplifting, Kyra, and personally I have always felt that we are all part of a Whole, of an energy that exists within and without, so to speak - and makes us part of that Whole.
In a way it comes down to common sense. We are all insignificant, yet significant, parts of the Whole Creation,and each part of the Whole, from a grain of sand to a drop of blood, a flower, mountain, sea - you name it - everything has energy within it, everything is linked. Whether that energy can be applied to the concept of time is another matter. Energy may have sparked the beginning of all that is, of Creation itself - as in The Big Bang (more likely a Bounce in my opinion)- but Time didn't exist until it was needed, till man needed it. This is why there is a Creation/Evolution Discrepancy*, why the Seven Days (okay, six) of Creation has been - in my humble opinion - misunderstood.

*I'm writing a manuscript at the moment, which covers some of this. Am I allowed to include a link? If not, I'll just include part of it when I return.

Yesterday today was tomorrow, and no sooner have I uttered the word 'now', before it has become 'then'. There is but now.

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Hi AnnaReirs,
Welcome to the forum! Thanks for your kind comments on my theory and your insightful understanding.
I'm sure a link to your manuscript is allowed. The Big Bounce, wonderful!

Hi Rev and TT. And, Rev, if only people had listened to your writer friend...

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