Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Not-Quite-Science Forum Japanese Given Free Money

It has just been announced that the Japanese Goverment is to
give every citizen of Japan...Free money.
That they are required to spend,....to help beat their financial recession.

Amazingly, I predicted exactly this...in order to help beat the worlds Financial Crisis.
In fact by giving my more explicit explanation of how this unique system might work....my original letter entitled "Banks Are Bust" originally placed under this General Science Discussion was sent to the "Not Quite Science Forum" ...presumably for not having enough Scientific input?

Well it seems my recomendations to beat the Financial Crisis has come true.
Although I do not have the exact amount of money the Japanese are to give away free, at the moment. I am sure when this becomes common knowledge, it will be placed on the WEB for all to read.
(I understand that it will be a small amount of money , like $125 or similar?)

You might like to read my original idea, placed here:- "Banks Are Bust"

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=29324#Post29324

My main threads, I have copied below:-
"ALL those that are OUT of work, are handed out 1/10th of their countrys average wage !
Those still in work, are handed out 1/24th of their countrys average wage !
With the proviso,....that all this Free money HAS to be spent within 4 months !!
After that....this new free money becomes worthless!
Boy Oh Boy, would you see an upturn in trade !! Industry will start manufacturing again.
The financial wheels will start turning again, goods will become available again, as industry moves to fill up the shelves.
Everybody far more happy than before, all buying goods.
And to ensure industrys wheels keep turning....in the following 4 month period, a wise Goverment will give out less free money than before, ensuring that Inflation is controlled, and so on.

Always handing out less and less money for prehaps longer and longer periods before it becomes worthless.
Eventually everything settles-down, and the real money that everyone has been hoarding, gets used again, for now the Banks and industry have regained confidence in everyones eyes".

I must make one comment upon the Japanese handout of free moneys
" It does seem that they wish to keep the banking system as it is, and not have any ideas for Nationalisation. Prehaps the world should take note..

PS. As soon as anything 'comes-up' on the WEB, re Japanese Free money ..please post it here.

Very interesting idea. I'm not sure if it's science - not to diminish it. I just don't know. But the idea is interesting and worth trying. I'm sure economic leaders the world over will be paying close attention to the Japanese example.

[quote=Mike Kremer]

Hehe...Not sure why my post has yet again been taken out of the General Science Discussion Area, and placed in this "Not Quite Science Forum" ????
Lets face it, I firmly believe Monetary policys of Countries, and the World, is firmly in the grip of Science.
In particular the Science's of Mathematics.
Wake- up- Scienceagogo-! I am sure everyone realises that every stockbroker the world over now uses a highly sophisticated version of predictive Mathematics, tied to individual minute and overall movements of Monetary markets to make money.
The fact that this predictive Mathematical software is kept secret, and/or costs thousands of $/£ to use.....
does not detract from the fact that this software is based upon the latest Mathematical findings...It is pure Science!

So Scienceagogo should hang its head in shame. Monetary policies today, .....are Pure Science.
Why SAGG keeps on placing this topic in the "Not Quite Science"
I shall never know. Prehaps they will tell us, or myself?

Finally ...and at last I have found a URL , which states that the Japanese Goverment are about to give every man women and child in Japan, from 12,000 to 20,000 Yen. !!
To be spent in their stores.
Do you think this will get the goods moving and help their financial economy.
Might this unique idea be copied in some form or other, by others?
One thing seems pretty certain... The Japanese are obviously not very keen on Nationalising their Banks.
Will other countries use this system to ensure their Banks are not nationalised?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5heJ7TcdM6d0bPpsSrFg3lVbLdgkw

Again...if anyone can find more similat URLS as per above, please post....I just dont think Japan will be the only ones to give out "free" money

Don't know if we get to vote on this stuff, but I guess I support including economics under legit science. A huge part of it surely is (econometrics, modeling, etc). Of course, there's also a lot of "political science" and assorted mumbo-jumbo included under "economics" and there's always the chance that it could deteriorate into a capitalism vs socialism political debate. But those could be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

To get back to the topic, though, is this policy something that has been stuck into a mathematical model?

Mike--- You may be interested that here in Oz everyone on a govt support allowance of any sort was, just before Christmas, given a sum of money-- either $500 or $1000. As a result Australia, whilst obviously affected by the GFC, still had a spend-up at Christmas. This month all of us on a pay scale below $70,000 will get 900 dollars. No strings, we are encouraged to spend it (and with the earlier 'gift' most people did) but you can save it or pay off debt if you want to. It was to have been $950 but $50 was taken for the bushfire people. No one seemed to mind that at all! So this seems to be a common idea.

Oz still has interest rates near 3% and Japan has a zero rate- so, I guess mathematically (real science here!) it makes sense to give away money---look at it as -0 interest rate!! This does not mean that I think finance is a science--- partly because I don't think probability is!!! :-)

(To anyone interested, the bushfires are still not out, but thanks to some rain -the first this year in some places- the main danger is now over.)

[quote=Mike Kremer]

Thank you Ellis, for the very interesting information, regarding recent Govt support allowances,
as practised in Australia.
It seems to be an honest worthy system, that has the approval of your public, especially in regard
to the bushfire people.

Today The Bank of England dropped our interest rate down to 0.5%.
The low interest rates have not ecouraged anyone to spend. In fact, quite the opposite seems to have occured. No-one is spending any money at all.
So today the Bank of England is printing £75 Billion, to be pumped into our economy, with a further £75 billion if required.
Must agree with you that there is not much science in this particular aspect of Money technology.

Mike- A member of my family travels a lot for work and she returned from the UK on Wednesday. She was really shocked and upset by the gloom in Birtain. She also visited Eastern Europe and Sweden, as well as Dubai. She was most horrified by Dubai, which she described as the worst affected! All those amazing buildings etc and no one is working there. She has come back to Oz convinced we are in denial here. Meantime I'm going to spend my $900 with a guilt-free conscience.

That 75 billion is really fiduciary money, which when I did Econ 101 was considered NOT GOOD AT ALL!

MKremer, good for you!

Now, this prompts us to ask:

What is the nature and function of this money? And, how much?
To whom in government do we (the people) give the power to create it? Surely not to the same greedy thieves who got us into this mess in the first place!


How FREE is this money of which you speak?

You go on to say:

"In fact by giving my more explicit explanation of how this unique system might work....my original letter entitled "Banks Are Bust" originally placed under this General Science Discussion was sent to the "Not Quite Science Forum" ...presumably for not having enough Scientific input?

Well it seems my recommendations to beat the Financial Crisis has come true.

Although I do not have the exact amount of money the Japanese are to give away free, at the moment. I am sure when this becomes common knowledge, it will be placed on the WEB for all to read.
(I understand that it will be a small amount of money, like $125 or similar?)

You might like to read my original idea, placed here:"Banks Are Bust"

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=29324#Post29324

============================================================
.... I must make one comment upon the Japanese handout of free moneys
" It does seem that they wish to keep the banking system as it is, and not have any ideas for Nationalization. Perhaps the world should take note..

PS. As soon as anything 'comes-up' on the WEB, re Japanese Free money ... please post it here.

This approach is basically an inflation, i.e. a Zimbabwe way...

Ellis, where is, "Birtain?". How far is it from Duebye?

But seriously, This topic raises all kinds of interesting questions.

To start off: Who do we have in the SAAG forum with some expertise in economics? Or mathematics? Or both?


Me? Without claiming to be an expert in economics, inspired by the fact that the Bible says a lot about the use and abuse of money, wealth and the importance of stewardship (economics?), since my student days in the 40's and 50's I have read widely in the subject. BTW, the New Testament Greek for 'stewardship' is oikonomos. BTW, Thomas Carlyle criticized economics as the "dismal science."


In my reading I have came across what is called SCHUMPETERIAN INNOVATION. In his important book, Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (1942), Joseph Schumpeter, an Austrian who taught at Harvard, predicted the decay of capitalism and posed the question: Did capitalism (I presume he was referring to 1929) commit suicide? [See page 834, ECONOMICS--An Introductory Analysis by Paul A Samuelson (MIT. 1966) and Anthony Scott (University of British Columbia). Interestingly, in 1969, Samuelson, for his work, won the first Nobel Prize in economics.
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In the light of the above, the following, from WIRED Magazine, is very interesting For more on Schumpeter's work check out:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=joseph+schumpeter+creative+destruction&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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Left wing. Right wing. Where are the tail-feather economists?

Pay attention to the:
LEFT WING. RIGHT WING. FEATHERS, ESPECIALLY THE TAIL FEATHERS
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If we were all perfectly sane, moral, ethical, loving and humane people with an average IQ, any political and economic system, including a dictatorship, would work.

But we are not. This leaves us with democracy--what Winston Churchhill called: "The worst system of government ever devised by man ... except all the others."

BTW, in his book, The Great Depression, the Canadian economist, the late John Kenneth Galbraith--professor at Harvard and adviser to Democrats, Roosevelt and Kennedy, points out that Churchill was in the New York Stock Exchange in 1929 and saw a lot of his money lost in the crash, what Galbraith calls the great "bezzle".

In the light of the present financial melt down, I repeat what I suggested way back when I wrote about economics and money: It is about time that we stopped thinking of economics as being a battle between right-wing capitalism--motivated by greed, fear and the desire for power--and left-wing socialism, motivated by altruism and a sense of social justice. May I suggest that we--especially those in government and responsible for regulating the way we do business--take a tail-feathers approach designed to keep the wings in balance.

Without good tail feathers, humbly situated over the all-important anus, no flight-dependent bird would survive for long.

THE FEATHERS OPTION
The feathers option to governing the political economy. After all, feathers cover the whole bird, not just the wings. Especially important are the tail feathers, humbly situated right over the anus of the bird--the perfect place for government.

The tail feathers play several essential roles: They help keep the wings in balance; they enable the bird to take off and land, and they help point the bird in the right direction. Without the humble tail feathers no flight-dependent bird would survive for long. Also, tail feathers economists see a role for every feather, including governments, businesses, individuals, churches, and charities.

For tail feathers economists, democratic and compassionate capitalism and socialism are not just competitors to be overcome, but valuable wings to be employed in the production and distribution of real wealth for the whole body.

May you never lose your tail feathers.
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MONEY. What is it, anyway?

MONEY, AS PERCEIVED BY MARSHALL MCLUHAN
An essay on the political economy of Marshall McLuhan--and what he failed to mention.
by Rev. Lindsay G.King (1997) (revised in 2008)

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthr...28988#Post28988

A REVISED VERSION OF THE NOTE I SENT TO THE CBC-TV--CANADA'S NATIONAL TV NETWORK
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Mike, as I understand it, as long as it is not called "legal tender" any legally registered corporation--for example the CBC, the Canadian Tire Corp, etc.--can issue money-like coupons, for circulation purposes only--which can be used to purchase things the corporations produce. It is not just a great marketing tool; it will also create jobs. There was a time when the Hudson's Bay Company used nothing but counting sticks, which was made of Oak and, therefore, difficult to counterfeit. Look at the wealth it created. But did greedy managers really share the wealth with the hunters and trappers?

It doesn't take too much imagination to visualize how, in cooperation with the federal kind, such complementary community currencies (CCC's I call them) could be put to use, legally, to employ the unemployed and the under-employed to produce goods and services to the benefit of the total community, especially those needing work.

BTW, this system is not an anti-bank. Nor is it an underground form of economy.

Come on CBC! Use your imagination. Harness your advertising power, which has great capital value, by issuing and loaning, the needy, including new and small business enterprises, interest-free CBC-Ca$h--backed by the advertising capital of the CBC. What better way to let all Canadians know where the food, clothing, shelter and work is. This could inspire us to work together to create the kind of "my community" Canada--from the Algonkin word 'kanata' meaning my community--is supposed to be. The CBC will also reap the benefit of great public support, which I understand it is now seeking.

By the way, check out the links on the site of THE FAMILY LIFE FOUNDATION:
http://www.flfcanada.com especially, http://torontodollar.com &
http://transaction.net Read what the financial expert, Professor Bernard Lietaer says about the nature and function of money.

INTEREST- FREE TEMPLE CURRENCY--See John 2:13-25; Matthew 21: 12-13; Mark 11: 15-17, and Luke 19:45-46. The following is an expanded version of the one I sent to the CBC. It also reflects my version of the role of the moneychangers--the Temple bankers--not found in the commentaries.
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Interestingly, in ancient Jerusalem devout Jews, like Jesus, his family and disciples, no doubt used the interest-free and pure Temple money. It was a CCC--that is, it was a local and complementary community currency in the form of metal coins. Keep in mind that all coins, Temple and foreign went by weight, not by denomination--number on the coin. An ounce was an ounce, right? And, on this basis, they circulated parallel to one another.

But was it an honest system?

The Temple coins bore the stamp of the sacred temple, not the image of pagan gods like that of the Roman emperors found on the Roman and foreign coins. Such images were abhorrent to pious Jews. Naturally, devout Jews expected that Temple coins not be debased, like many foreign coins were. Take note of this: By the time the Roman Empire collapsed, Roman gold coins were mostly lead, dipped in gold.

Now use your imagination: Just like today, greedy people with criminal minds found many ways to beat the system. For example, the moneychangers were suppose to check the purity of foreign coins. How? They were supposed to melt it down--that is, render it--and make sure it was pure. But did they?

In addition, when they found pure metals, did they make sure it stayed that way? Just think of the temptation to debase the good coins and make money in the process. Toxic and sub-prime mortgages, anyone!

Take the time to go behind the story of why Jesus--on the day Christians call Palm Sunday--turned over the tables of the cheating moneychangers, who he called thieves--and you will get some understanding as to why he was arrested by the henchmen of the greedy, the rich and shameless. Of course they wanted to get rid of him. He blew the whistle on their scam, didn't he? And it cost him his life. Talk about wisdom, and courage!

Regarding the $900 all taxpayers got in April/May here in Australia. Our financial position is hanging onto the cliff-edge. We went out and spent for our country,( I bought a new smallish flat-screen TV) , and we are officially NOT in recession! Our employment is holding steady after a little fall over christmas (5.2 over Xmas and 5.7 now). All this good news seems too hard to believe in a world where economies are really faltering, and it probably won't last, but even the opposition parties have to admit the economic stimuli may be working. We'll see when they stop. Tax has stayed the same so the govt has been able to give money towards building things like roads and schools to create jobs--- and of course cutting carbon production is getting little attention.

However the Oz economy does seem to be travelling quite well all things considered. Maybe the free money does help---who knows!

PS. I read an article regarding Islamic Banking last week. I will not attempt to explain it as I do not know enough about it, but there is no 'interest' charged as that is forbidden. An Islamic bank is looking to start up in Australia. The differences in approach were interesting.

Dang free money your required to spend? that sounds like a awesome plan. =p when can other countries expect their free money? lol.

Free money? You mean from what?

I repeat, the CCC (complementary,community currency) movement has been advocating this kind of usury-free currency for decades. This is not a new idea. Guernsey Island did it in 1816.
http://www.michaeljournal.org/guernsey.htm
http://www.
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Lincoln did it during the civil war. They were called "greenbacks".
http://www.xat.org/xat/usury.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo30.html