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#29473 - 02/14/09 01:44 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: a_tinkerer]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Contradictions are irrelevant.
Nonsensical assertions are irrelevant.
Why? Because God "explains" everything.
X= -5, god did it.
X=13e1000, god did it.
There is literally nothing that can't be explained by God.
Which is why God is not a scientific concept. Magic (God) is an explanation that doesn't actually explain anything.

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#29477 - 02/14/09 10:53 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Blind adherence to evolution is nonscientific approach as well. Every evolutionary episode can be explained by terraformation activity of intelligent extraterrestrial creatures, for example.

I'm affraid, proponents of evolution can overlook this possibility quite easily in their holy fight against creacionism.

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#29478 - 02/14/09 05:35 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Zephir]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
Blind adherence to evolution is nonscientific approach as well.


ahem...Amen to that.

3/4 of the earth is covered by water.

most of what is now dry land was covered by ice and snow at several points in the past.

the sea level was much lower in those peroids as noaa references below.

Quote:
We know that in the last 15,000 years—the generally-accepted era of human occupancy of North American coastlines—sea level has varied from more than 100 meters below to as high as 10 meters above the present sea level.


http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/02quest/background/paleo/paleo.html

that sea level drop was in the last 15,000 years ... the time that man is "BELIEVED" to have first occupied north america.

Quote:
Yet, archaeological evidence from North and South America suggests that humans have been in the Americas for perhaps longer than the “ice-free corridor” can safely explain. Estimates of human settlements as old as 30,000 years represent serious challenges to traditional accounts.


further down in the article

Quote:
Locating the landforms where humans once lived is difficult, because they are now under water.


hmmmm...

this means that the evidence has been covered up and that people that lived on the earth way back then probably lived close to the ancient shorelines where food and warmth could be found more readily.

so evolution bases its validity on partial evidence.

thats kind of like peeling back only three or four layers of soil and studying what is found in the three or four layers and then claiming that this is history and anything below that we will just overlook because we cant get to it to determine what history really was.

hopefully the scientist that do discover any remains of these underwater habitations will not be so pig headed as many of the evolutionist today.

and they will approach the findings in a scientific manner and not try to cover up the findings as they have in the past just to support evolution.


_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#29479 - 02/14/09 06:21 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: paul]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
"Blind adherence to evolution is nonscientific approach as well. "
Which is why scientists don't blindly adhere to evolution. Instead they recognize that the actual data support the collection of theories quite well.

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#29484 - 02/15/09 12:45 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Would it have made any difference to the acceptance of the theory of evolution if DNA had been discovered before the publishing of the theory? The discovery of DNA and its role in providing what seems to me to be an explanation of the connection of life on the planet is becoming more and more evident. This would have been able to provide a framework for the philosophical as well as the scientific explanation of the origin of species, if not the origin of life-- (though maybe even that eventually). Please tell me if that is nonsense, FF and others.


Edited by Ellis (02/15/09 12:47 AM)
Edit Reason: usual spelling

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#29485 - 02/15/09 01:22 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Ellis]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Yes. It would have made a difference to the scientists. I doubt it would have made any more difference to the theologically inclined than it does to their intellectual progeny today. But having a mechanism through which traits could be communicated to the next generation would likely have made evolution easier to follow for scientists.

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#29486 - 02/15/09 04:13 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
It may have helped to get rid of that stupid 'I wasn't descended from monkeys' rubbish. In fact we share, is it 98% of our genes with them? But the descent is not from monkeys but that we share a common antcestor, and we also share an incredibly high number of genes with a fruit fly as well. Such certainties, whilst they would not have dented the belief of the welded on creationists may have given pause to some of the more rational amongst them as it forms some sort of scientific basis for the argument for evolution that in my opinion is unassailable.

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#29487 - 02/15/09 11:58 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Ellis]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: Ellis
the descent is not from monkeys but that we share a common antcestor
Wake up, this is just a politically correct sentence for most radical creacionists. cool

Of course we are evolved from monkeys - we are only few million year old species, before which nothing else, then apes didn't exist at all. Apes just found a way to exploit their specific niche, so there was no need for them to evolve further.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1118_041118_ape_human_ancestor.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...y/apewskull.jpg

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#29489 - 02/15/09 03:40 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Zephir]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Originally Posted By: Zephir
Originally Posted By: Ellis
the descent is not from monkeys but that we share a common antcestor
Wake up, this is just a politically correct sentence for most radical creacionists. cool

Of course we are evolved from monkeys.

Ellis obviously knows what she's talking about. She is right, Zephir, and you are wrong. Monkeys are not apes, and humans are not descended from any species of monkey. Your linked article does not contradict that.

That article is very interesting, though. Those 13 million year old fossils may be from the common ancestor of humans and our great ape cousins. Good find.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#29490 - 02/15/09 11:57 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: redewenur]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
I have not seen any scientific sources that indicate humans evolved from monkeys. Every source I've ever read was clear that monkeys and humans share a common ancestor. I'm pretty sure this organization hasn't got anything to do with political correctness.

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#29491 - 02/16/09 06:05 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
a_tinkerer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 4
There is an interesting theory on the Net, that planet X (Nibiru)comes around our sun every 3600 years then disappears into deep space. It (a dark sun) is coming in from the South Pole in around 100 years time, although some believe it is coming in 2012.

Maybe God created the people on planet X and the people on planet X created/developed us from a primitive form of human or monkey.

That really would explain a lot. They (Niberuians) get there chance to play God every 3600 years.

They say the first written language on Earth came from the Sumerians (500 years before the 1st 4 books of the bible were written by Moses) The Sumerians ancient text actually has reference to plant X. Check it out with Google.

Maybe the old testament is not true at all. It does leave every other nation on the earth out of favour with God - doesn't sound particularly fair really. Don't think God would do that somehow - not a fair one anyway. Favouring 1 race over all others - like an exclusive sect. Why do it???

Christians are blind to the fact that the 1000's of contradictions in the bible mean that God did no inspire the bible. If he did, he would have proof read it. Instead it was inspired by man and thus should hold as much sway over mankind as any other book ever written by man.





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#29492 - 02/16/09 09:21 AM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: a_tinkerer]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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It never ends. Are the Niberians also known as reptilians?

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#29493 - 02/16/09 12:34 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In Ralph O. Muncaster’s book 101 REASONS YOU CAN BELIEVE: Why the Christian Faith Makes Sense shows how accurate the writer of Genesis was a genius and the creation story very true. Muncaster says:
WMAP Confirms Creation Event
The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP---a satellite) measures data from the cosmological radiation left over from the origin of the universe…. proof that the universe had a beginning---just as indicated in Genesis 1:1. Limiting the time (whether to only 10,000 years or to 13.7 billion ) proves that there is not nearly enough time for random evolution of the first living cell to happen… (p.86)
He also points out:
The Impossibility of the Random Origin of Life
Science can now assume that the random origin of life is impossible. This is because
• the molecular components necessary for the development of a living cell could not conceivably have come together in the manner required to allow it to work
• there is no known mechanism to place life into non-life, even if the components could come together
Simply assembling the components to create the simplest kind of a cell would have about 1 chance in 10112,827 of randomly happening. [Archaeology and the Bible: The Best of BAR, Vol. 1] Any mathematician would agree that these odds are virtually zero. The reason for this improbability is that many things are necessary for the key components of DNA and protein chains to work properly. First, the chirality (molecular orientation) must be perfect for both. Second, only life-specific amino acids must be used. Third, the amino acids must be put in the proper place. Fourth, the correct material must be put in the right place for the DNA molecule. Fifth, the sequencing of genes must be correct for the DNA to function. All of these requirements must be fulfilled.
Further complicating the problem of proper assembly of the components of the first cell of life is the fact that time is limited….
Finally, even if everything miraculously came together, life would still need to be added to non-living matter. We have never seen this happen, nor do we know how to make it happen. (p 12-13)

The space probe also indicated that light separated from darkness approximately 0.00038 billion years after the creation event. This confirms the second stage of creation as indicated in Genesis 1:3… (p 86)

Muncaster continues to point out:
Once we understand that random chance evolution has no chance of explaining the origin of life…a reasonable question follows: What was the process of creation? Does it agree with the Bible?....
The Bible’s order of the events of creation agrees precisely with the order of events that scientists have confirmed:
1. Heavenly bodies were created (verse 1)….
2. “Let there be light” (verse 3)….
3. Development of the hydrologic cycle (verse 6)….
4. Formation of land and sea (verses 9-10)….
5. Creation of vegetation (verse 11)….
6. Atmospheric transparency (verse 14)….
7. Creation of small sea animals and birds (verse 20)….
8. Creation of land animals (verse 24)….
9. Creation of man (verse 26)---Final life-form created on earth.
10. No additional creation (2:2). No unique creation has occurred since.
Moses wrote the account of creation nearly 1500 years before Christ. At that time there was no scientific knowledge about how the universe was created---though there were many outlandish myths. (p 108-110)


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#29494 - 02/16/09 12:47 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Evolutionists cannot prove the theory of evolution by creating a new species from a creature that has a life span that is a fraction of our own in a laboratory experiment. Evolutionists also cannot produce life from a lifeless substance that possesses a metabolism, breathes, grows, reproduces itself, and responds to stimuli.

In short, the theory of evolution has major problems in the theory. At best the theory is science fiction.

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#29495 - 02/16/09 12:52 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mary's virginal conception has more credibility than evolution. Parthenogenesis is a scientific fact in nature and the Biblical account of Mary virginally conceiving Jesus Christ is credible.

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#29496 - 02/16/09 04:40 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Anonymous]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
"Mary's virginal conception has more credibility than evolution."
Only to people who have a comic book understanding of science.

"Parthenogenesis is a scientific fact in nature"
Not among humans.

"and the Biblical account of Mary virginally conceiving Jesus Christ is credible. "
Only if Jesus was really a woman.

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#29497 - 02/16/09 04:41 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: Anonymous]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
"In short, the theory of evolution has major problems in the theory. "
In short, you don't know what you're talking about.

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#29498 - 02/16/09 04:43 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
"Science can now assume that the random origin of life is impossible."
No. It can't and it doesn't. The origin of life is not something that evolution is intended to address. Nevertheless, scientists have not proved that abiogenesis is impossible - which explains why there are still very smart scientists who are trying to figure it out. The demise of abiogenesis is wishful thinking by religionists.

As Muncaster is not a science and has no background in science, it's easy to see how he could be readily confused.


Edited by TheFallibleFiend (02/16/09 04:45 PM)

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#29500 - 02/16/09 06:07 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Quote:
The origin of life is not something that evolution is intended to address.


Then perhaps evolutionist should drop that part from their agenda.

unless they can explain how life began they should back away from trying to disprove creation.

fact is they have nothing at all as evidence for evolution as they want it to be , and they have zilch to disprove creation.
what evolutionist want to put forth in evolution is nothing but changes due to environment.

and although they do have some old bones , they dont have old foot bones that show transition from ape to man or any reasonable proof of a common ancestor.



and any proof that they might find to the contrary would be / has been covered up or swept under the rug by hard core evolutionist.

I think that todays pig headed evolution should be retooled into a science that does not hide evidence.

Quote:
which explains why there are still very smart scientists who are trying to figure it out.


but I thought you guys already knew everything.

I thought you already knew that creation was impossible.

it seems that evolution is more of a comic book than creation.

_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#29501 - 02/16/09 06:16 PM Re: Why doesn't America believe in evolution? [Re: paul]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
"Then perhaps evolutionist should drop that part from their agenda."
That's probably the silliest thing you've yet typed. There are many kinds of scientists who are studying many types of problems. Almost all practicing scientists accept evolution as fact. Only some of those scientists are actively engaged in studying evolution. There are others who are actively engaged in trying to understand abiogenesis. Those scientists also accept evolution, for the same reason that most scientists who study gravitation and chemistry accept evolution. They go on studying their own fields and doing so isn't part of any "evolutionist agenda."

"trying to disprove creation."
Scientists are not trying to disprove creation in any cosmic sense. They're trying to understand nature. Science - including evolution - is incapable of addressing god(s).

"fact is they have nothing at all as evidence for evolution"
Willful ignorance of science doesn't make it cease to exist.

"and any proof that they might find to the contrary"
So-called 'proofs' to the contrary invariable demonstrate the perpetrators have a comic book understanding of science.


"but I thought you guys already knew everything."
Never said or implied it. They just know more than creationists - which, after all, isn't such an amazing trick.



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