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My drinking water is bombarded by UV light continuously in order to kill bacteria. And I drink apple cider treated with UV light. Should I be worried? grin


The truth is out there, but so is a lot of other nonsense!
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Originally Posted By: BlueFire
...Should I be worried? grin

Apparently not. From what I've googled, I understand that UV treatment applies specific wavelengths to target the DNA of micro-organisms, rendering them incapable of reproduction. There's no chemical change in the irradiated liquid. It doesn't require high intensity, and such devices have been in use by aquarists for many decades, as a non-polluting 24/7 means of protecting their fish from pathogens.


"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler
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Yeah, the UV from a 25 watt bulb is comparable to the UV in unsheilded space. And somebody tell stupid that UV effects water molicules as they form. Oh, and no one with two undamaged brain cells thinks drinking heavy water is something to worry about.

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Anon has raised an interesting point, despite himself:

D2O is not radioactive and, assuming you could lay your hands on some, it would not be easy to poison yourself with it. But experiments suggest that if you were to consume large amounts over the course of many days, sufficient to replace at least 25% of your body fluid, you would probably succeed in sterilising yourself and damaging your bone marrow.

Heavy water also has this unusual effect:

"D2O is the only “chemical” agent that consistently affects the frequency of circadian oscillations"

http://www.pnas.org/content/70/7/2037.abstract


"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler
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P.S. Tritium is the radioactive isotope.


"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler
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Anon has raised an interesting point, despite himself:>>>

Anon must be Thomas J, as he's a bit too defensive for the casual reader.

It's beyond arrogant to insist UV effects water molecules as they form (in a UV rich environment), when we know no such thing. However, it is beginning to look like he just might be right.
Now that we are looking for deuterium, we find it everywhere we expect to see water molecules, not just comets. Where we don't see it ... we believe it's still there, just covered in the dust particles of gas clouds. What caused this ... we still don't know, but UV radiation is a candidate. Keep an eye on this one, people. If it turns out Thomas is right about UV, his thoughts on life will be taken very seriously.



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It's beyond arrogant to insist UV effects water molecules as they form.>

So, what's beyond arrogant?

If it turns out Thomas is right about UV, his thoughts on life will be taken very seriously.>

First, if I'm right about UV, I'm right about where our water came from, not life.
Second, If it turns out that cosmic radiation from supernovas, not UV, is the cause of all that deuterium, I'm still right about where our water came from.
Last, as to life. The hundreds of billions, perhaps trillions of self running experiments, that I describe, is the only way life could ever self-assemble, and should be taken 'very seriously' now! Maybe it's beyond arrogant to be the first to get the process right ... and to know it?

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Originally Posted By: Thomas J Gassett
Life is likely born in a porous matrix of volcanic rock.
I'm missing the natural selection factor here. Please note feasible mechanism of life formation proposed by AWT



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I'm missing the natural selection factor here.>>

There is no natural selection, as such, at least not yet.
Both your process and mine are systems designed to allow life to eventually self assemble. I do it underground in porous volcanic rock with random numbers of aminos. You do it on the surface of the planet at the edge of a sea or large body of water. The problem with your system is dealing with all the inherent chaos, that AWT seems to miss. Things like no appreciable sunlight would even reach the ground. The wave action, your system needs didn't exist, at least in the way AWT imagines. There is no wind. Just storms that would change the pressure but not make waves.

Without an atmosphere your experiment for life would be under constant bombardment from UV radiation. UV destroys the bonds between aminos making it impossible to build the long chains of amino acids necessary for life. Then you have things like rain falling to Earth without an atmosphere to slow it down. Your experiment for life would be smashed to bits by ballistic rain drops, or pounded out of existence by the almost constant bombardment from remnants of the early solar system. Your system simply lacks the elegance of my system. Everything in my system is part of the process. While you have a workable process in your system, you have far too much chaos to make it work.
I am intrigued by your 'oil' drops and wouldn't be surprise if I eventually steal it and use it to expand my explanation of the processes needed for life. Thanks for contributing!

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
..There is no wind. Just storms that would change the pressure but not make waves....
How did you came into it? Such things cannot happen on planets without presence of life?

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..There is no wind. Just storms that would change the pressure but not make waves....>>

Yeah, Zephir, I'm probably wrong on this point. It's just that with no appreciable atmosphere it's hard to imagine the wave action we see today, so early in the planets history. The shoreline is another problem. Would this line exist long enough to build the long chains of aminos needed for life? Shallow seas dry up. Our oceans were likely still growing, well, according to me. For your life experiment to work it would need to run for a very long time, and that shoreline would likely change drastically during the time needed to run the process.

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Such things cannot happen on planets without presence of life?
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Yeah, sort of. Without life, nothing on the surface of this planet would be as it is today. Without life, ours would likely be a frozen anaerobic rock. The natural build up of carbon in our seas would have buried our oceans long ago, if life didn't take that carbon and make things like shells, and ultimately rocks like granite, and limestone, even the White Cliffs of Dover. All are the remnants of life. Life may even be responsible for minerals like gold, even our oil, certainly our coal. Life took a very hostile rock and turned it into the Earth we see today. Life is teraformation. Is that a real word?

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
..nothing on the surface of this planet would be as it is today..
Isn't it interesting, how people who met with new idea will start to deny it immediatelly - rather then to think about it? Even proponents of evolution will start to behave like religious oponents of Darwin in this moment.

My model od life evolution doesn't depend on aerobic atmosphere, gold, granite or White Cliffs of Dover. They're simply irrelevant to it. On the other hand, things like granite or gold doesn't depend on existence of life. They're apparent formed by inorganic crystals.

Once again, how did you came into it?

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Granite is an igneous rock, formed from the cooling of magma, and is nothing to do with life. It is purely an inorganic process. Limestone, yes, it is formed by the compression of shells and other living things that make calcium carbonate skeletons in the sea. Make sure you know what you are talking about before committing it to the screen.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

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Isn't it interesting, how people who met with new idea will start to deny it immediatelly - rather then to think about it? Even proponents of evolution will start to behave like religious oponents of Darwin in this moment.>>

I hope English is your second language.

My model od life evolution doesn't depend on aerobic atmosphere, gold, granite or White Cliffs of Dover. They're simply irrelevant to it. On the other hand, things like granite or gold doesn't depend on existence of life. They're apparent formed by inorganic crystals.>>

Well, you're right about granite, but then a broken clock is right twice a day. Your model depends on a magic shield against UV radiation, ballistic rain drops, and the almost constant bombardment from the remnants of the early solar system. If you want to be taken seriously deal with these problems ... or come up with another theory.

Once again, how did you came into it? >>

The first time you wrote this 'came to it' stuff I thought it a typo ... now I think it's brain damage, or you've yet to perfect English.


Granite is an igneous rock, formed from the cooling of magma, and is nothing to do with life. It is purely an inorganic process. Limestone, yes, it is formed by the compression of shells and other living things that make calcium carbonate skeletons in the sea.>>

Rose, you and people like you are why I post my ideas. I should know granite is igneous rock. Thanks for the needed slap back to reality. I could swear I read it was like Limestone and the White Cliffs of Dover, but I can't find it to save my life. It's embarrassing to be so completely wrong. Thanks.

Make sure you know what you are talking about before committing it to the screen. >>

Good advice. Oh, this is yours ... right?

"Lots of things have a tell tale spectral fingerprint in the UV spectrum.>>

Name some.

That does not mean you can produce neutrons by irradiating them with UV. If that were possible, all we would have to do to gain fuel for nuclear reactors would be to UV irradiate some stuff and get neutrons in the nuclei to make a radioactive material.

*Make sure you know what you are talking about before committing it to the screen

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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Your model depends on a magic shield against UV radiation, ballistic rain drops, and the almost constant bombardment from the remnants of the early solar system

Of course not, on the contrary. Rain drops or meteorites would violate my model, instead.

Have you understood it at all?
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I hope English is your second language.
In fact third one - but don't try to change subject, please.

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You've all displayed your models of how life may have just happened devoid of divine intervention, they may seem viable in theory but are they actually applicable in reality all things considered?

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If every legitimate theory humans ever contrive proves a bust, divine intervention will not be on the table, because it is not a legitimate theory. "We don't know" is preferable to "it was magic."

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Produce neutrons by irradiating them with UltraViolet.

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Originally Posted By: ichatfilipina
Produce neutrons by irradiating them with UltraViolet.


Now that would be a real miracle. Seeing as how that would require the production of matter from photons.


If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose

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