Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 78 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters (30 Days)
Topic Options
#29324 - 02/01/09 03:39 AM Banks are Bust
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

Banks not only Bust but Busted and Untrusted.
But the sooner it is realised that we still need them, the better.
Just why do we need them?
After all, simplistically, just who is going to hold the large amounts of money required to keep a countrys infra-structure afloat.
Who will lend out the moneys for business to pay for the imports and exports. To pay and keep the ships, planes and trains
running. Pay for generated power, manufactured materials, foods, clothes, shoes.
Money for pensioners, the unemployed, Hospital services, the list is endless.

So we have got to have Banks, hav'nt we?
We can't fall back on a Barter system, there are far too many millions of us for Bartering to work.

So, if you agree with Banks, Who should own them?
Goverments, or Big Business?
Since its Goverments that make the final decisions as to how much money is put into circulation, prehaps only Goverments should own the the Banks.

But thats Nationalisation, that means no more interest, either for people or Companys. Not a good incentive for either to use the Banks.

Banking is a strange system, charging low interest rates, when times are bad.
Tends to force industry to drop their prices, in the hope the public will buy?
But the public dont have any money to buy, due to unemployment. Why buy? Why not wait, since you expect the prices to drop still further? Deflation=Stagnation.

But if the Goverment puts and prints money into circulation, thats Inflation.
Our money becomes worthless in the eyes of the rest of the world, Our trade drops drastically, no one wants worthless money. Zimbarbeway has proved lesson for all with its 2 million
percent inflation.


But, I have had an idea...Hmmmm (another crank?) crazy
Let the Goverments of all countrys start printing money !
And actually hand it out to people, FOR FREE.
According to this rough and (very) basic idea.

ALL those that are OUT of work, are handed out 1/10th of their countrys average wage !
Those still in work, are handed out 1/24th of their countrys average wage !
With the proviso,....that all this Free money HAS to be spent within 4 months !!
After that....this new free money becomes worthless!

Boy Oh Boy, would you see an upturn in trade !! Industry will start manufacturing again.
The financial wheels will start turning again, goods will become available again, as industry moves to fill up the shelves.
Everybody far more happy than before, all buying goods.
And to ensure industrys wheels keep turning....in the following 4 month period, a wise Goverment will give out less free money than before, ensuring that Inflation is controlled, and so on.

Always handing out less and less money for prehaps longer and longer periods before it becomes worthless.
Eventually everything settles-down, and the real money that everyone has been hoarding, gets used again, for now the Banks and industry have regained confidence in everyones eyes.

Now you cant tell me THAT would'nt set the wheels of industry turning again, quickly ?
But if you can, lets have your comment here

_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
.
#29329 - 02/01/09 11:42 PM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Mike Kremer]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Mike wrote:

"But, I have had an idea...Hmmmm (another crank?)
Let the Goverments of all countrys start printing money !
And actually hand it out to people, FOR FREE.
According to this rough and (very) basic idea."

Hasn't this wonderful, and basically appealing idea, been tried recently in Zimbabwe, and also by many bankrupt regimes around the world? It doesn't work because the modern situation means that we have to involve ourselves in international trade and there will always be a country whose currency will not be similarly devalued. Like barter, its day is gone. Perhaps instead we should go back to the Gold Standard!!!!

Personally I am drawn to the idea of the government having a supervisory role in banking, if not outright ownership. It was the suspension of the various financial regulations that caused this mess. Unbridled capitalism is as dangerous as unbridled communism! Bring back rules, curtail exessive credit dealing and reward saving I say!


Edited by Ellis (02/01/09 11:43 PM)

Top
#29332 - 02/02/09 12:56 AM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Ellis]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Unbridled capitalism is as dangerous as unbridled communism!
Yep, exactly. This is why the objectives is considered as dual to communism by AWT. After all, all utopistic theories are based on unsubstantial belief in human good nature.

Top
#29334 - 02/02/09 05:01 AM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Zephir]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
I would suggest unsubstiated belief in the ability of the theorists to hoodwink trusting humans. Surely it should be possible to design a system allowing for success/happiness at one end that does not require ruination/destitution at the other.

Top
#29335 - 02/02/09 10:43 PM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4122
I personaly think that all the money that is given to buisnesses
will not create any new jobs or save any jobs , giving money to buisnesses is only going to create jobs in other countries.

also giving money to people to spend is not going to do anything but boost the economy of those other countries.

If real economic improvement is to be found it would be found in creating more jobs in the country that the improvement was sought in.

the U.S.A. is quickly going down hill , and it is because the money that buisnesses and industry gain as profit is being spent making jobs in other countries...

President Obamas idea of building new infrastructure would be a terrific economic boost , as long as the roads and bridges keep being built , they would support thousands of other buisnesses here in the U.S.A. , they would promote the formation of new buisnesses in the U.S.A to support the road and bridge building.

We the U.S.A. could probably do better if the government would help these buisnesses to start up and to expand rather than to just give the failing pre-existing industries and buisnesses more money to expand into other countries , taking more of our jobs with them as they go thereby worsening the economy.

when you think about it , they are at fault for the economic situation , why should we compensate them for the destruction of our economy.










_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

Top
#29363 - 02/05/09 10:38 PM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Ellis]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis
.........................> Surely it should be possible to design a system allowing for success/happiness at one end that does not require ruination/destitution at the other.


[quote=Mike Kremer]

I found a guy here, who has rented a booth in Times square , New York
Hes actually GIVING AWAY MONEY, to anyone willing to stand in line and wait. Well the queue is long, very long, but everybody gets at least $50.0 some get $1,000. Everybody gets something nobody gets turned away.
The booth called "BailoutBooth.com" is protected by armed police
After this mystery man has given away $500,000, he moves to another city.
It might well be an advertising ploy for a new Web site named
> bailoutbooth.com < where you can sell just anything, and get paid out before its actually sold.?
Interesting

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gf6aLUtns_MGK7xD2PB-puJAObGQ

http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.a...5653&EDATE=



Edited by Mike Kremer (02/05/09 10:39 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



Top
#30737 - 05/20/09 11:39 PM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Mike Kremer]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer

Banks not only Bust, but Busted, and Untrusted.
But the sooner it is realized that we still need them, the better.


Mike!: Surely you mean: "The sooner we realize that we do NOT need them, right?

Once you have responded to this, let's dialogue, OK?

Top
#30805 - 05/29/09 11:54 AM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
MODERATOR: If possible, delete the above. I needed to revise it.
Three questions:
1.Mike, are you asleep?
2.Where are our Credit Unions?
3.Are they asleep, too?
=======================================

The following story going around demonstrates the miracle of coincidences of needs:

In a small town on the South Coast of France, holiday season is in full
swing, but it is raining so there is not too much business happening.
Everyone is heavily in debt.

Luckily, a rich Russian tourist arrives in the foyer of the small local
hotel.

He asks for a room and puts a Euro100 note on the reception counter, takes a
key and goes to inspect the room located up the stairs on the third floor.

The hotel owner takes the banknote in a hurry and rushes to his meat supplier to whom he owes 100.

The butcher takes the money and races to his supplier to pay his debt.

The wholesaler rushes to the farmer to pay 100 for pigs he purchased some
time ago.

The farmer triumphantly gives the 100 note to a local prostitute who gave
him her services on credit.

The prostitute goes quickly to the hotel, as she was owing the hotel for her
hourly room use to entertain clients.

At that moment, the rich Russian is coming down to reception and informs the
hotel owner that the proposed room is unsatisfactory and takes his 100 back
and departs.

There was no profit or income. But everyone no longer has any debt and the
small townspeople look optimistically towards their future.

Could this be the solution to the Global Financial Crisis ?
laugh
=================
BTW, by getting together in communities and using a community-created kind of money simply as counting sticks--BTW the Hudson's Bay Company used this system, with trappers in the north, for centuries--and without allowing any inflation-creating interest to be assessed, such a system could work this way, especially now that we have the personal computer to be the bank and help us.

PLAYING-CARD MONEY AND COLONIAL SCRIP
=====================================
I forgot to mention the prosperity of the American colonies--prior to 1776--which used colonial scrip. And the French colonies--prior to 1759--which used playing-card money.

For what happened in French Canada, Read page 403 and following, of THE WHITE AND THE GOLD--The French Regime in Canada, by Thomas B. Costain--a great Canadian born writer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Costain.

The owners of the banks of England and France did not like the prosperity in the colonies, because the local kind of money system caused them to miss out on all those profits.

Now guess why the banks agreed to finance the civil servants and troops which kept the colonialists in their place--as is Quebec. Or, guess why they agreed to finance the wars against them when they rebelled--as in New England?

Not hard to figure, eh?

=======================================
Governments, are you asleep? Or are you in the thrall of, and in cahoots with, those to whom you have given, without our full consent, the monopoly of credit.

You allow banks to create and issue billions of fiat money--money NOT backed by any real goods (gold silver and the like) and services (skills of the people)--as a debt to us, and then treat as an asset to themselves. Then it is up to us members of the community to pay the rent, in the form of taxes, to them for something which really belongs to the community in the first place.

Now you know where the managers of banks, and other corporations, get all those big salaries and huge bonuses even when they do a lousy job for investors (large and small)--the real owners.

WAKEY! WAKEY, EVERYBODY!!!!!
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

Top
#30830 - 06/03/09 06:45 AM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
On the topic of money substitutes in French colonies I will add the situation in the early days of the British colony of Australia when the currency was RUM!

By the way Rev- I did enjoy that very appropriate story you told, it's a brilliant summing up of what's been happening!

Top
#30840 - 06/04/09 05:02 AM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Thanks, Ellis:

For what it is worth, here is my definition of inflation: Inflation happens when big corporations (including the big banks, big unions, and big advertisers) convince greedy consumers to buy--with money borrowed at high interest--things they cannot afford and do not really need, to impress people they do not really like.


Edited by Revlgking (06/04/09 05:04 AM)

Top
#30862 - 06/08/09 08:02 PM Re: Banks are Bust [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
See the new thread which I will set up after this post to carry on this theme: THE STUPIDITY OF CUPIDITY--the inordinate, or eager desire, especially for things and power--a passion for gain and power over others regardless of the needs of others; in short, greed.

Top



Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.