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Quote:
The bible describes god shaping man of clay then breathed life into him.


right , we didnt evolve from the clay ( rocks ) God created us , life.

if he didnt breathe life into man , there would have just been a clay statue that he made.

and we wouldnt be here to argue about it.



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In my experience from observing people where I live, I believe fear and religion are the biggest barriers to understanding and believing in evolution(at least in Ky USA.) Fear and religion are the two biggest causes of ignorance in regards to science among other things. I see this from living and working around some of the most closed minded people in the world.

I hear at least once a month from some fanatic, usually someone I work with, his or her theory of why evolution is wrong. None of these people have read The Origin of Species. They believe that the book is the work of satan. They believe that people like Richard Dawkins are working for satan. They also shoot squirrels through windows in their houses from the breakfast table(a coworker of mine actually said that he did this the other day after his young son spotted it while eating Captain Crunch cereal.) They haven't the slightest clue how evolution works, they just "know" it's wrong.

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Believing what you read about evolution only, because you have given yourself to that particular authority without having your own experience, often tends to block the awareness from any other possibility. This is a plague that infects all beliefs, be they religious or scientific.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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I was born in KY, graduated HS there, and went to university there. I know what you're talking about. The biggest mark that evolution has against it is that the vast majority of it's detractors have a vast repository of false knowledge on the subject. What they need to hear is this:
"Almost everything you think you know about science is wrong. Your 'knowledge' of science and of evolution is not just minuscule - it amounts to anti-knowledge."

If you tell them this, you get the response: "HA! That's what you EVILutionists ALWAYS say!"

Which is correct for the simple reason that it is always true.

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FF- Where do these people hear all this "anti-knowledge" nonsense which given to them as "truth"?

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I think he's referring to knowledge not based on actual experience and the ability to think beyond some designated authoritative postulation.

Many take what's given them without any experience and comparatives, and often reject anything which may or may not fit within the content designated as the authoritative word.

Science can build on what it discovers and experiences if it engages discovery with an open mind to keep looking further into the experience and the information. If it were to stick to data and experience without any further thought it wouldn't be science but rather belief and opinion.

Being flexible enough to take information and to build upon it and expand upon it is the nature of spiritual evolution. Cookbook evolution may exclusively deal with Darwinisms or Religious dogma if it is absorbed and accepted as the beginning and the end.

I know when I was in school a lot of the subject matter was laborious to get through. The intention was to pass the course not to master it.
If my heart wasn't into the subject at hand I would only absorb what I had to and only understood the information as it was perceived at that level.

With schools using a grading system which measured the retention of material and inspiring competitiveness in the individual it was easy to find something else to find some form of worthwhile ideal to attach myself to, rather than to measure my Self worth according to some kind of grading system on subjects I had no interest in.

The educational system standardizes relative values of worth in subject matter, not necessarily covering the extent of the subject but maybe certain highlights of it. If someone wants to become a evolutionist in some field of science or psychology they would have to study further in some higher educational process maybe even write a thesis based on ones own immersion into the subject. Obviously one who had no interest in the subject would make no effort to take their thoughts any further than what they retained in the human programming factory they attended in order to become a useful adult in today's society.

In casual conversation lots of people blurt out what they have heard or read with some kind of idea that they know something, and without actually putting much time and effort into the subject. This is seen as normal and it is that level that is taught to our children by the same type of programming that exists in the parents. Simple memorization and standardization of highlights based on old information.
Schools are not often on the cutting edge of new technology and scientific discoveries. It would seem there is more current information on the Internet than in the school curriculum.

Prejudice of information, such as what has been determined as righteous in school curriculum and what isn't, can affect the thought process and influence beliefs of those who attend school.
Some subjects such as creationism, are dissed because of the ignorance of the subject rather than the knowledge of it.

Imagination is often stifled by the parameters set within the grading systems and the curriculum of the school, and the board of education which is scrutinized by the idealisms and beliefs of the community. Children are programmed rather than educated.

I don't know about Australia but in the U.S. we graduate students from High School who don't know how to think, or read the English language. These people vote and without knowing what they stand for assume a position they often have no connection to. Most are motivated by hearsay given to them by someone they think knows something, often the media which says one thing one day, and something other the next.

My own e-mails were full of some kind of facts regarding who and what the candidates for our government positions stood for and most of it was dirt, flung from the other side. Because we accept blindly what the media has to offer as our point of reference we must have been taught to accept this.
I know I was never told in school to question authority or the information I was being tested on. If I was given a hint that I could challenge it with something superior to the information given, I might have entertained a thought that everything I was being graded on was relative to current knowledge and understanding rather than just the plain truth.

I think this is an important detail that is left out of the daily curriculum that leaves most students uninspired to see beyond the categorization of competitive based memorization, and the imaginative creativity that could be inspired into the curriculum so that no one would be left out.
Instead of leaving school with an open mind we leave with a sense of accomplishment in passing the grade, or jumping the necessary hurdle standardized as THE way of life.

Evolution is much more than a chemical and physical progression of the human meat sack. It is psychological in the awakening of intuition and spiritual insight in what Human being is. That is not taught in school, in fact it is discouraged if it is upsetting to the fixed mode of belief and superstitions that rigidly hold the authority to the written word.

Our United States is governed more and more by fear based laws which insist that we are threatened by everyone who is not an American.
Our Homeland security is an invasion of our rights and freedoms created in the name of protection and security.
We accept more and more each day that we must give our rights and freedoms to those who tell us how much we are threatened and need to be protected. By giving up what we gained in our original fight for freedom detailed in the Constitution without understanding it was this very same type of tyranny we make a choice that is without knowledge and insight.

In one sense we will need to have our rights and freedoms taken from us before we can value them and stand up to create them again just as we did over two hundred years ago.
Thing is, with this virtual reality being created through the media, will we ever really know what is happening or will we be electronically fed enough distractions to keep us from being aware of reality as it really is?


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Originally Posted By: Ellis
FF- Where do these people hear all this "anti-knowledge" nonsense which given to them as "truth"?


Ellis,
Quite literally, most of what people "know" about science and evolution amounts to Barbershop Gossip and rumor. They learn this anti-knowledge from their parents and grandparents, from their preachers, from family friends and members of their peer groups. They pick it up on YouTube and on the Internet. They also ingest it gradually and continuously from television programs and popular culture - to the point where they think they understand what it's about when they really don't. Literally, they have the illusion of knowledge. There are groups of people who have a very strong vested interest in misrepresenting the facts. The authority they use to influence people is based on faith in the "inerrant, literal word of the Living God." Their entire method is to sow confusion so that doubting evolution seems more reasonable than it is.

Evolution is a fact and a body of theory for explaining those facts. The only debate about whether evolution occurs is in the popular culture. Among scientists the debate is strictly about how evolution does occur, not whether it occurs.


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FatFreddy,
There are no human footprints next to dinosaur footprints in Paluxy, Texas. You have accepted anti-knowledge as fact.

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The "archaeologist" in the video is Carl Baugh who is not a scientist and whose PhD in theology seems to be a fake:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/degrees.html

The real experts who have examined the Paluxy prints identify them as dino prints next to dino prints. In a few cases, someone has carefully gone in and carved out one of the prints to make it look human. It's not just that this is a small fraud. The real scientists recognize this as an OBVIOUS hoax.

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the footprints of the dinosaur and the two legged humanoid led under a limestone ledge.

they removed part of the ledge by seperating the layers of the limestone , and the prints were there also.

now I could understand you might say this was a hoax if the footprints stopped after they removed the limestone ledge and would not be writing about this , but if the footprints are there then they have been there as long as the limestone ledge has , over 100 million years.

thats a fact that cannot be denied , except by evolutionist
and of course many of the people on this forum.

after all they can only know WHAT KNOWLEDGE THEY HAVE HAD ACCESS TO



what type of evidence do you believe?
seen or unseen?
why havent you seen loads of non-evolution evidence.

heres an example , listen to what is said about facts being IGNORED by evolutionist.


thousands of feet inside mountains in central california inside tunnels that were being dug by the california gold minners , human skeletons and artifacts were being found , yet because these finds contradicted evolution they were ignored - false science at its greatest.

http://www.mcremo.com/california.html

Quote:
According to modern geological reporting, most of the discoveries occurred in Eocene river channels, capped by solid layers of Miocene latite several hundred feet thick. The discoveries attracted the attention of scientists worldwide, but were rejected primarily because they contradicted the then emerging Darwinian picture of human evolution.


EOCENE-- 54.8 to 33.7 MILLION YEARS AGO --http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/tertiary/eoc.html

Darwinists / evoloutionist routinely assert that humans like ourselves appeared fairly recently on this planet, between 150,000 and 100,000 years ago.

Quote:
In this paper, I give a case study showing how commitment to Darwinism operated in the treatment of archeological discoveries from the gold mining region of California in the nineteenth century. The discoveries indicated the existence of anatomically modern humans in the Tertiary. I propose to show that this evidence was eliminated from archeological discourse primarily because it contradicted an emerging Darwinist consensus on human origins, with humans evolving from more apelike hominids in the late Pleistocene. I also wish to show how Darwinists today continue to try keep this evidence out of active scientific discussion and out of presentations to the general public


Quote:
There was a petrified pine tree, from sixty to eighty feet in length and between two and three feet in diameter at the butt, lying near this skeleton.


one thing I've personaly noticed about false science is that it refuses to accept evidence contrary to itself.

ie...

Quote:
“Perhaps if Professor Whitney had fully appreciated the story of human evolution as it is understood today, he would have hesitated to announce the conclusions formulated, notwithstanding the imposing array of testimony with which he was confronted.” In other words, if the facts do not fit the favored theory, the facts, even an imposing array of them, must go.


sceince is the GATHERING of knowledge , not ignoring new found knowledge.

thats why I call evolution false science.

when evolutionist normaly call this type of thing false science.


LOL ;-]

.


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Quote:
You have accepted anti-knowledge as fact.


LOL ;-]


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Quote:
Where do these people hear all this "anti-knowledge" nonsense which given to them as "truth"?


certainly not in ANY text book , because the textbook is anti-knowledge.

they find the truth by themselves probably because they feel what they have been taught is wrong.

.



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Quote:
The real experts who have examined the Paluxy prints identify them as dino prints next to dino prints


Well then it looks as if they have found a new dino species that only exsisted in this one particular place on the face of the earth...LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL

what a load.

.


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"one thing I've personaly noticed about false science is that it refuses to accept evidence contrary to itself."
You don't seem to be particularly adept at discerning false science from the genuine article. Here's a quality of false science: The purveyors are often accept very weak 'evidence' with utter credulity, and then mock extremely powerful evidence.

Cremo is not a scientist and I'm not going to waste more time than is absolutely necessary watching his idiotic videos. If there is a specific timestamp you want me to watch, I'll consider.

Cremo is a prime example of anti-knowledge.

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I really dont care what you do.

but if you want to hear for yourself then its at 5.55 minutes into the video.

have fun !!


Quote:
Cremo is not a scientist


and what makes a scientist?

a diploma?

and what happens to the years of study to get the diploma
if you as a scientist go against the very nature of science?

the very things you have been taught?

then you would become the ANTI-SCIENTIST !!!!!

LOL ;-]



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Originally Posted By: paul
Quote:
The real experts who have examined the Paluxy prints identify them as dino prints next to dino prints


Well then it looks as if they have found a new dino species that only exsisted in this one particular place on the face of the earth...LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL

what a load.

.


Actually, no. Creationists claim that the footprints are those of a giant human who was crippled and was walking in a funny sideways motion. Yes, in some cases, it's another dinosaur. In others it's a natural formation that has been "worked" by creationists (i.e. a fraud).

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/tsite.html

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Quote:
Yes, in some cases, it's another dinosaur


is there a illustration of this dinosaur with human like yet larger feet?

any evidence other than conjecture to back up your claim?

a fragment of a jawbone perhaps that can be used to construct the entire skeleton from , anything evidency?

Quote:
Creationists claim that the footprints are those of a giant human


Creationist seem to have hard evidence to support their claim

now where is the evoloutionist's evidence.

now its time for you to put me on your ignore list , because you cant provide any evidence , and that is the normal way out.

.

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Quote:
the footprints are those of a giant human who was crippled and was walking in a funny sideways motion.


He was walking in a funny sideways motion because his pet dinosaur was pulling too hard on the leash.

perhaps !!

.


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"Creationist seem to have hard evidence to support their claim"
"Seem" being the operative word. Lots of things seem completely reasonable when you don't know any better. The prints are of a kind of tridactyl as mentioned on that webpage I mentioned previously.

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let me clarify that.

Creationist seem to have hard evidence to support their claim.

do you have any evidence to contradict this?

Quote:
The prints are of a kind of tridactyl

ie...


Definition:

tridactyl : with three digits on each limb: having three claws, fingers, or toes on each limb

Great , that leaves us with the EXTRA TWO DIGITS shown in the pictures.

there are clearly 5 digits on each limb , therefore we are not dealing with a dinosaur that is a tridactyl.



I dont see any similarities other than they both are footprints.

could you please post some type of evidence?

or do you just CLAIM that evolution is a fact !!!










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